chances of getting into an MD school

[StanktheTank]

Hello all
I just wanted to see if you guys could give me your opinions
I am going into my senior year in college and right now u have a 3.77 cGPA and a 3.8 sGPA (biology major neuroscience minor)
-Honors Bio program (requires thesis from conducted research and graduate level course)
-1 year and a half of research no publications with 1 year remaining
-very strong LORs from science faculty and research PI (along with pre health committee)
-last summer was selected for a summer intensive research program
-received a fellowship for my research this summer
-have received scholarships,leadership stipends, and dean honors
-taking my mcat july 12th ( scoring 27- 30 ATM)
-I am URM but i don't think this will help me and i am not trying to find the easy way in but might as well use it
-Have volunteered almost 100 hours + shadowed for 50 hours in the ED
-Have tutored organic chemistry for a year and a half
-full time student plus worked all of my college career
-part of the pre medical fraternity ( no leadership roles so might not include it)
-Part of relief (which i think could be considered as a leadership position )

I am looking to apply this summer do not want a gap year if possible what do you guys think ?
what schools would be best for me to apply to ?
I am a NY state resident

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[lmn]

School list can't be determined without your actual mcat score. But your application looks well rounded and given that you are URM, if you can score a decent MCAT you should be competitive at a lot of schools.

 

[claduva94]

URM will help you and that is fine. If you can score around a 30 you should be pretty well off.

 

[StanktheTank]

thank you
Didn't know URM was actually helpful
do you guys know by any chance if i score lets say a 33 what are my chances of california schools
or stony brook here in new york ?

 

[lmn]

thank you
Didn't know URM was actually helpful
do you guys know by any chance if i score lets say a 33 what are my chances of california schools
or stony brook here in new york ?

Are you from NY or CA?

 

[claduva94]

With a 33 I'd say you would be quite competitive for Stony Brook. California schools are unfriendly even to California residents so I would't guarantee anything.

 

[gyngyn]

thank you
Didn't know URM was actually helpful
do you guys know by any chance if i score lets say a 33 what are my chances of california schools
or stony brook here in new york ?

Which community do you represent?

 

[FalconSlice]

There is an actual "What are my chances" thread here in pre-allo. Post there

 

[StanktheTank]

I am a NY resident
sorry i am brand new to SDN not sure how to work this yet

 

[listener23]

thank you
Didn't know URM was actually helpful
do you guys know by any chance if i score lets say a 33 what are my chances of california schools
or stony brook here in new york ?

You didn't know being a URM would be helpful but you knew to call yourself a URM????.... Most people just say there race, The term "URM" is really specific for someone who don't know the preference they have in med school admission .... I smell a troll

 

[StanktheTank]

You didn't know being a URM would be helpful but you knew to call yourself a URM????.... most people just say there race, URM is really specific for someone who didn't know the preference they have in med school admission .... I smell a troll

I'm sorry... to be clear i have read in places it helps to identify your self as URM
however I have also seen a frequent amount of articles which say that it really does not boost your chances of getting in
I saw one article where they showed statistics but its about 2-3 years old and don't know how exactly they went about conducting the study

 

[el_duderino]

thank you
Didn't know URM was actually helpful
do you guys know by any chance if i score lets say a 33 what are my chances of california schools
or stony brook here in new york ?

Google "MCAT table 25" and compare the acceptance rates for white vs black vs asian applicants for an example:
White: 3.20 - 3.39 GPA, 27-29 MCAT, acceptance rate 22.7%
Black: 3.20 - 3.39 GPA, 27-29 MCAT, acceptance rate 81.6%
Asian: 3.20 - 3.39 GPA, 27-29 MCAT, acceptance rate 16.1%

Turns out ethnicity matters.

 

[ksmi117]

Moving to the What Are My Chances? forum.

 

[StanktheTank]

o

Moving to the What Are My Chances? forum.

thank you
I am of hispanic decent but i looked at the rates for that they seem pretty good i guess only thing that through me off would be when i visit certain schoolss when ever i am close they never really have any hispanic students but i guess thats because of the low rate that apply plus the extensive list of schools

 

[Pdoc387]

Which community do you represent?

You are one of my favorite posters now! Just to let you know...

 

[StanktheTank]

Which community do you represent?

NY resident

 

[el_duderino]

NY resident

"Community" as in which minority community, not physical location. Though your residency state is helpful for a school list.

 

[Pdoc387]

"Community" as in which minority community, not physical location. Though your residency state is helpful for a school list.

You know, although we both know what the other person meant by the term "community", I feel if more Americans responded in the way this person responded our country would probably be more united. Just saying...

 

[Mr.Happy]

You know, although we both know what the other person meant by the term "community", I feel if more Americans responded in the way this person responded our country would probably be more united. Just saying...

I agree with you but the truth is that if you are hispanic or black, your chances of being accepted to a US MD schools with mediocre stats are much much higher than if you are white or ORM (Chinese American, Indian American etc.) That's why this question is important. I think this kind of affirmative action by US medical schools should not be based on race but on socioeconomic status alone. I think it's unfair that a 24 MCAT 3.5 GPA middle class latino student gets accepted into a mid-tier US MD program but a 27 MCAT 3.6 GPA poor/middle class Indian American/Chinese American/White American will be rejected from even low tier US MD program. That's not fair.

 

[StanktheTank]

You know, although we both know what the other person meant by the term "community", I feel if more Americans responded in the way this person responded our country would probably be more united. Just saying...

Which community do you represent?

oh ok
well From the Dominican Republic so I'm considered hispanic

 

[StanktheTank]

I agree with you but the truth is that if you are hispanic or black, your chances of being accepted to a US MD schools with mediocre stats are much much higher than if you are white or ORM (Chinese American, Indian American etc.) That's why this question is important. I think this kind of affirmative action by US medical schools should not be based on race but on socioeconomic status alone. I think it's unfair that a 24 MCAT 3.5 GPA middle class latino student gets accepted into a mid-tier US MD program but a 27 MCAT 3.6 GPA poor/middle class Indian American/Chinese American/White American will be rejected from even low tier US MD program. That's not fair.

I totally agree with you... many kids in my school use this and don't care how they do knowing that they have a better shot.... i don't have the best GPA but i have worked hard in my undergrad career cause i don't want people to assume i was one of those low GPA low mcat people who were given a free pass

 

[el_duderino]

Life isn't fair. Turns out that life tends to be extremely *more* fair for white kids than it is for black kids. I can't for the life of me work up any rage about some school accepting a black student with slightly lower stats over a white student with slightly higher stats because it's "not fair."

Know what else isn't fair? Me, a white middle class dude, going to medical school with one or two URMs in my class. It's unfair to ME because I'm missing out by losing the opportunity to learn with, and from, those URMs.

 

[Mr.Happy]

I totally agree with you... many kids in my school use this and don't care how they do knowing that they have a better shot.... i don't have the best GPA but i have worked hard in my undergrad career cause i don't want people to assume i was one of those low GPA low mcat people who were given a free pass

Exactly, this kind of affirmative action based on race hurts hispanic and black matriculants. Everyone assumes that the URMs got in because of their race and that is very unfair to applicants such as yourself who have worked hard for your goals.

 

[gyngyn]

oh ok
well From the Dominican Republic so I'm considered hispanic

Many schools will not consider Dominicanos under-represented in medicine. Some will, but may expect additional language skills and evidence of commitment to service in this Spanish speaking community in order to give a boost.

 

[el_duderino]

I totally agree with you... many kids in my school use this and don't care how they do knowing that they have a better shot.... i don't have the best GPA but i have worked hard in my undergrad career cause i don't want people to assume i was one of those low GPA low mcat people who were given a free pass

No one gets a free pass. No one. You don't get accepted into an American medical school unless you're qualified and the school is convinced that you have what it takes to succeed there and beyond.

 

[el_duderino]

Exactly, this kind of affirmative action based on race hurts hispanic and black matriculants. Everyone assumes that the URMs got in because of their race and that is very unfair to applicants such as yourself who have worked hard for your goals.

Dude. No. Stop.

 

[Pdoc387]

I agree with you but the truth is that if you are hispanic or black, your chances of being accepted to a US MD schools with mediocre stats are much much higher than if you are white or ORM (Chinese American, Indian American etc.) That's why this question is important. I think this kind of affirmative action by US medical schools should not be based on race but on socioeconomic status alone. I think it's unfair that a 24 MCAT 3.5 GPA middle class latino student gets accepted into a mid-tier US MD program but a 27 MCAT 3.6 GPA poor/middle class Indian American/Chinese American/White American will be rejected from even low tier US MD program. That's not fair.

As a Hispanic, I concur. AA should only be based on SES. It is an accident at birth whether you are White, Hispanic, Black, etc.. That has no impact on your academic abilities. However, how you grow up, what educational tools you have, etc. does have that said impact.

 

[Mr.Happy]

To address jonnythan's point, I agree that a lot of whites do have more opportunities and resources in life than hispanics and blacks. The question is, why do they have more opportunities and resources? Is it because they were born into a family with a higher SES or is it because of the color of their skin? You know the answer. If we base affirmative action on SES status alone, poor disadvantaged people of all races will benefit.

 

[StanktheTank]

Many schools will not consider Dominicanos under-represented in medicine. Some will, but may expect additional language skills and evidence of commitment to service in this Spanish speaking community in order to give a boost.

I did not know that...
well i grew up with my great grandparents... parents weren't around to make a long story short so I am fluent in spanish
I am not home much anymore cause i spend most of my summers close to school to work research and other stuff since i don't have enough financial help at home
but at school i am apart of a latino club
and i also tutor for CSTEP and volunteer when i can would that count ?

 

[gyngyn]

I did not know that...
well i grew up with my great grandparents... parents weren't around to make a long story short so I am fluent in spanish
I am not home much anymore cause i spend most of my summers close to school to work research and other stuff since i don't have enough financial help at home
but at school i am apart of a latino club
and i also tutor for CSTEP and volunteer when i can would that count ?

It will depend on the school and the reviewer. I'm not seeing much community service, though (unless I just missed it). Your MCAT will also be crucial, of course.

 

[el_duderino]

To address jonnythan's point, I agree that a lot of whites do have more opportunities and resources in life than hispanics and blacks. The question is, why do they have more opportunities and resources? Is it because they were born into a family with a higher SES or is it because of the color of their skin? You know the answer. If we base affirmative action on SES status alone, poor disadvantaged people of all races will benefit.

You're not looking past the end of your nose. Ask yourself what the point of these policies is, and what the evidence behind your opinion is.

Do we have a shortage of physicians from low SES? Would increasing the number of physicians who come from low SES situations improve health care in any measurable way? Are "poor kids" underrepresented in healthcare?

I don't know the answers to those questions. But I do know that (for example) blacks are underrepresented. There is evidence that increasing the prevalence of black physicians has positive effects on public health.

AMCAS allows you to indicate that you were disadvantaged in some way growing up, and medical schools take that into account. That is a different issue. URMs are, by definition, underrepresented in health care, and medical schools are clearly making a concerted effort to erase that representation gap.

 

[Mr.Happy]

You're not looking past the end of your nose. Ask yourself what the point of these policies is, and what the evidence behind your opinion is.

Do we have a shortage of physicians from low SES? Would increasing the number of physicians who come from low SES situations improve health care in any measurable way? Are "poor kids" underrepresented in healthcare?

I don't know the answers to those questions. But I do know that (for example) blacks are underrepresented. There is evidence that increasing the prevalence of black physicians has positive effects on public health.

AMCAS allows you to indicate that you were disadvantaged in some way growing up, and medical schools take that into account. That is a different issue. URMs are, by definition, underrepresented in health care, and medical schools are clearly making a concerted effort to erase that representation gap.

If you look at the data, you will find that hispanics and blacks make up a disproportionately large amount of the low SES population, a hugely disproportionate amount in fact. Affirmative action based purely on SES status will result in a higher proportion of hispanic and black physicians.

 

[el_duderino]

If you look at the data, you will find that hispanics and blacks make up a disproportionately large amount of the low SES population, a hugely disproportionate amount in fact. Affirmative action based purely on SES status will result in a higher proportion of hispanic and black physicians.

And what are the benefits of using "purely SES" as a proxy when the goal is literally to increase URM representation in health care? What does that buy you as opposed to doing it directly? Is the only advantage that it feels "more fair" to you?

 

[Mr.Happy]

And what are the benefits of using "purely SES" as a proxy when the goal is literally to increase URM representation in health care? What does that buy you as opposed to doing it directly? Is the only advantage that it feels "more fair" to you?

Affirmative action based purely on race creates a lot of antagonism and hostility towards URM matriculants. Affirmative action based on SES status alone avoids all this negative energy while achieving the same end result. Just read up the pre med forums if you don't believe me about the hostility. Any discussion about race in a pre med forum ends up becoming very hostile and unpleasant.

 

[el_duderino]

Affirmative action based purely on race creates a lot of antagonism and hostility towards URM matriculants.

And no, I don't think some uncompetitive applicants complaining on SDN that affirmative action is the reason they didn't get accepted counts as evidence.

 

[gyngyn]

Affirmative action based purely on race creates a lot of antagonism and hostility towards URM matriculants. Affirmative action based on SES status alone avoids all this negative energy while achieving the same end result. Just read up the pre med forums if you don't believe me about the hostility. Any discussion about race in a pre med forum ends up becoming very hostile and unpleasant.

There are so few under-represented students in medical school that any animosity directed at them is truly sad.

 

[Mr.Happy]

And no, I don't think some uncompetitive applicants complaining on SDN that affirmative action is the reason they didn't get accepted counts as evidence.

I can argue with you about this all night but let me ask you one thing, why is that two URM applicants in this thread alone liked my post (post # 19) in which I mentioned that affirmative action based on race alone is unfair?

Think about that. They don't like the hostility directed towards them. They don't like to feel that the main reason they were accepted to medical school was because of the color of their skin.

I agree and support the efforts towards increasing the percentage of URMs in the physician pool. I just think there is a better way.

 

[el_duderino]

I agree and support the efforts towards increasing the percentage of URMs in the physician pool. I just think there is a better way.

Ignoring the part where you speak for other posters, what's the better way to increase the percentage of URMs in the physician pool?

 

[Mr.Happy]

Ignoring the part where you speak for other posters, what's the better way to increase the percentage of URMs in the physician pool?

I'm not speaking for anyone. They decided to like my post. I assume they liked it for a reason. A better way to increase the percentage of URMs in the physician pool is by basing affirmative action on SES status alone.

 

[el_duderino]

I'm not speaking for anyone. They decided to like my post. I assume they liked it for a reason. A better way to increase the percentage of URMs in the physician pool is by basing affirmative action on SES status alone.

What specifically makes going purely by SES better?

 

[Mr.Happy]

What specifically makes going purely by SES better?

Affirmative action based purely on race creates a lot of antagonism and hostility towards URM matriculants. Affirmative action based on SES status alone avoids all this negative energy while achieving the same end result. Just read up the pre med forums if you don't believe me about the hostility. Any discussion about race in a pre med forum ends up becoming very hostile and unpleasant.

 

[el_duderino]

Affirmative action based purely on race creates a lot of antagonism and hostility towards URM matriculants. Affirmative action based on SES status alone avoids all this negative energy while achieving the same end result. Just read up the pre med forums if you don't believe me about the hostility. Any discussion about race in a pre med forum ends up becoming very hostile and unpleasant.

Saying things doesn't make them true, no matter how many times you repeat them.

 

[gyngyn]

I'm not speaking for anyone. They decided to like my post. I assume they liked it for a reason. A better way to increase the percentage of URMs in the physician pool is by basing affirmative action on SES status alone.

Though UIM's are disproportionately represented in lower SES groups, the fact that the dominant population constitutes a much larger total number of poor people, switching to SES would effectively eliminate whole racial groups from consideration.
Medical education (even at private schools) is largely paid for by the public. A larger proportion of ethnic minorities contribute to the education of all physicians without receiving the benefit of their care.
The reason we give a boost to some qualified candidates is because our job is to provide care for all in a egalitarian society in which forced service is not supported.

 

[Mr.Happy]

Though UIM's are disproportionately represented in lower SES groups, the fact that the dominant population constitutes a much larger total number of poor people, switching to SES would effectively eliminate whole racial groups from consideration.
Medical education (even at private schools) is largely paid for by the public. A larger proportion of ethnic minorities contribute to the education of all physicians without receiving the benefit of their care.
The reason we give a boost to some qualified candidates is because our job is to provide care for all in a egalitarian society in which forced service is not supported.

Thank you for giving two very valid reasons for basing affirmative action based on race that I didn't think of. Also, thank you for being civil and not trying to insult or belittle me.

 

[zzxxzz]

This doesn't matter because the reason medical schools admit URMs with lower stats isn't to "help" them. It's to diversify the class body. African-Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, whatever, generally have different life experiences and perspectives than whites/asians. Also, URMs typically tend to be poorer -> less access to health care, and having physicians who are members of the ethnic community serves to de-alienate those populations.


Also, keep in mind this is all pretty irrelevant. 82-85% of med school matriculants are non-URMs. No one's "taking your spot."

 

[youmed]

This doesn't matter because the reason medical schools admit URMs with lower stats isn't to "help" them. It's to diversify the class body. African-Americans, Hispanics, Native Americans, whatever, generally have different life experiences and perspectives than whites/asians. Also, URMs typically tend to be poorer -> less access to health care, and having physicians who are members of the ethnic community serves to de-alienate those populations.


Also, keep in mind this is all pretty irrelevant. 82-85% of med school matriculants are non-URMs. No one's "taking your spot."

So true. People really go crazy over that small percentage.

 

[FutureAnesthesiologist87]

Exactly, this kind of affirmative action based on race hurts hispanic and black matriculants. Everyone assumes that the URMs got in because of their race and that is very unfair to applicants such as yourself who have worked hard for your goals.

Since humans all came out of Africa as early as 50000 years ago, can't we all claim to be African American on our applications? 50,000 years is only about 2000 generations, so we are all at least 1/2^2500 African. Wouldn't our applications be incomplete if we forget to include our earliest ancestors (Homo Erectus) in our race?

 

[WedgeDawg]

please don't necrobump threads