Change the Degree to MDO?

[cbrons]

Yup. Make everyone take the USMLE and make all DO schools take the OPP COMAT.

Is that really necessary? I agree you could standardize all DO students to take USMLE instead of COMLEX, but there is no need to have a national test for OMM, just have a few classes the first couple of years and then that should be it. (Preferably as an elective - I know many DO students would love optional OMM).

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Moose A Moose]

Oh



This thread again

 

[NurWollen]

Oh



This thread again

The least people could do would be to start new threads with something creative, like "Change DO degree to DJMT (Doctor of Jedi Mind Tricks)"

 

[abolt18]

Is that really necessary? I agree you could standardize all DO students to take USMLE instead of COMLEX, but there is no need to have a national test for OMM, just have a few classes the first couple of years and then that should be it. (Preferably as an elective - I know many DO students would love optional OMM).

I suggested that as I think there is no way they would let DO students get away without some standardized exam for OMM. At least we'd ask get to take the USMLE and not worry about the COMLEX that way.

 

[GUH]

Is that really necessary? I agree you could standardize all DO students to take USMLE instead of COMLEX, but there is no need to have a national test for OMM, just have a few classes the first couple of years and then that should be it. (Preferably as an elective - I know many DO students would love optional OMM).

I would prefer not have to learn histology as it is a skill rarely if ever used in the fields I'm interested in. The fact that students want something a certain way does not mean that it's better for the profession. We don't get to pick and choose which parts of the curriculum we will be responsible for.

 

[cbrons]

So you're saying the degree should change to MDO, because otherwise normal people won't know that DOs are doctors?

All Im saying is we dont really know who framed Roger Rabbit

 

[qqw]

Thoughts

MD vs MDO

Medical Doctor vs. Medical Doctor of Osteopathy

This would be so much more clear for patient populations and pre-meds...

Especially with the ACGME/AOA merger... it would be nice if both degrees at least had names that are similar

25% of the DO stigma would go away from this solution alone

most patients dont care or even notice there are two equivalent degrees in medicine, dentistry, PA/NP, CRNA, etc....

no the degree shouldn't be changed. thats silly...stop worrying about fitting in and what others think of you and just do your job....

 

[Fergison2]

Yes, MDO would be a vast improvement. It would be a big symbolic step forward. Are there other areas to focus on in our field? Yes. However, as with any area, much is generated from symbolic movements. MDO would symbolize the emphasis on the medical rigor or our field that we are doctors of medicine not just Osteopathy.

I work in private practice now and the hospital setting and the letters do matter. I do think MDO would be a vast improvement and say to the populace that we are doctors of medicine.

Resistance in this area is usually bolstered by cries that anything other than keeping "DO" comes from insecurity, lack of confidence or other arguments in such vein. I do not believe this is the case however. I believe that the DOs who are brave enough to look at the matter objectively are simply being practical and logical about the benefits of representing our profession and what we do more accurately.

I know that I spent a minority of hours learning osteopathy and many many hours honing medicine which I still use to this day with my patients (without "osteopathy"). I believe our title should designate this in a more accurate manner.

 

[hallowmann]

Yes, MDO would be a vast improvement. It would be a big symbolic step forward. Are there other areas to focus on in our field? Yes. However, as with any area, much is generated from symbolic movements. MDO would symbolize the emphasis on the medical rigor or our field that we are doctors of medicine not just Osteopathy.

I work in private practice now and the hospital setting and the letters do matter. I do think MDO would be a vast improvement and say to the populace that we are doctors of medicine.

Resistance in this area is usually bolstered by cries that anything other than keeping "DO" comes from insecurity, lack of confidence or other arguments in such vein. I do not believe this is the case however. I believe that the DOs who are brave enough to look at the matter objectively are simply being practical and logical about the benefits of representing our profession and what we do more accurately.

I know that I spent a minority of hours learning osteopathy and many many hours honing medicine which I still use to this day with my patients (without "osteopathy"). I believe our title should designate this in a more accurate manner.

I could see your argument if you were suggesting to turn the degree into MD or MD with another separate certificate, but your argument to create a brand new degree, "MDO", which would garner the same exact questions about "osteopathy" is objectively not logical.

MDO does not equal MD. If someone walked into your office and saw MDO on your chest, they'd be asking you the same questions, and you'd have to reply essentially the same answer. At least with the way things are now, in areas where many patients recognize the DO degree, you wouldn't have to do that. You're suggesting converting to a degree that will be more unrecognizable by patients.

 

[Dr Air Jordan]

"MDO", which would garner the same exact questions about "osteopathy" is objectively not logical.

Sure it may garner some questions..

However, it at least conveys similarity and continuity with the MD name and it would be wayyyyy simpler to explain.

 

[DocVapor]

Sure it may garner some questions..

However, it at least conveys similarity and continuity with the MD name and it would be wayyyyy simpler to explain.

Please fill in the blanks:

Scenario 1:
Patient: What's a DO?
You:_____________

Scenario 2:
Patient: What's a MDO?
You:______________

 

[Dr Air Jordan]

As Fergison2's explained of the benefits of MDO ...

MDO would symbolize the emphasis on the medical rigor or our field that we are doctors of medicine not just Osteopathy.

I work in private practice now and the hospital setting and the letters do matter. I do think MDO would be a vast improvement and say to the populace that we are doctors of medicine.

I spent a minority of hours learning osteopathy and many many hours honing medicine which I still use to this day with my patients (without "osteopathy"). I believe our title should designate this in a more accurate manner.

The DO degree has garnered questions about whether I am studying "homeopathic medicine" countless times by family/friends.
The DO degree does not even accurately highlight what DOs truly are.
Are DO graduates truly Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine and osteopathic medicine alone??? Hell no they're not. Most spend < than 10% of their time studying OMM in medical school... so should the DO title misrepresent who DOs truly are? ( I acknowledge that MDO may not necessarily address this issue fully... but it would at least place the phrase medical Doctor in the degree name)


Obviously I have zero empirical data to prove this and this is simply based on an opinion, but I believe continuity between MD/MDO would reduce the number of ppl asking if DO = homeopathic medicine.
Imagine seeing a list of doctors at your local hospital and instead of seeing:
MD
MD
DO
MD
MD
you would see this
MD
MD
MDO
MD
MD


It's just so much more beautiful, so much more simple. and with the AOA/ACGME merger happening, it's a perfect time for this type of change.

Again, this is an opinion and I have zero empirical data. Perhaps some psychologist/marketing people can provide some evidence to support/refute the potential impact of this

 

[Jwalker]

Yes, MDO would be a vast improvement.

So lets take a degree that's been around for 100 years and replace it with a new one?

I know that I spent a minority of hours learning osteopathy and many many hours honing medicine which I still use to this day with my patients (without "osteopathy"). I believe our title should designate this in a more accurate manner.

NULL point. Last I checked cardiologist will call his/herself a cardiologist. A psychiatrist will call his/herself a psychiatrist - Not and MD or DO. Title worrying is for people with small appendage syndrome.

 

[DocJL]

Or just have two degree issuing entities (MD and DO) like dentists do (DDS and DMD) and everyone is none the wiser.

There aren't two degree issuing entities.

The choice of degree designation, DDS vs DMD, is completely up to the dental school, and is often historic in nature.


There is NO difference between the 2 degrees, unlike the differences between an MD and a DO program.


Same preprofessional curricula. Same DAT. Same dental school curriculum. Same national boards. Same state or regional licensing boards. Same scope of practice. Same average GPA, etc of successful applicants.


When I entered school 2 decades ago, there was some talk of trying to standardize the degree to something like a "DDM", lol. Apparently this never gained traction.

Personally I think it would have been a good idea, if for nothing else than to prevent pt confusion. I can't tell you how many times I have overheard a layperson state, "a DDS is a dentist, a DMD is an oral surgeon", or similarly misguided words to that effect.

 

[kenjixshadow]

This type of thread has been asked from year to year. No the title wouldn't change. If you go to a DO school, you'll forever be a DO. If you want the MD title or something similar to it, you should've attended an allopathic school in the first place.

Thread 1 in 2002: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/mdo.52701/
Thread 2 in 2003: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/do-degree-change.513189/
Thread 3 in 2004: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/mdo.133355/
Thread 4 in 2008: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/mdo.133355/
Thread 5 in 2008: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/d-o-name-change-mdo-md-do-omd.520719/
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/d-o-name-change-mdo-md-do-omd.520719/
@Dr Air Jordan Whenever someone asks you what's DO?
Tell them it stands for DOctor and be done with it.

 

[abolt18]

There aren't two degree issuing entities.

The choice of degree designation, DDS vs DMD, is completely up to the dental school, and is often historic in nature.


There is NO difference between the 2 degrees, unlike the differences between an MD and a DO program.


Same preprofessional curricula. Same DAT. Same dental school curriculum. Same national boards. Same state or regional licensing boards. Same scope of practice.


When I entered school 2 decades ago, there was some talk of trying to standardize the degree to something like a "DDM", lol. Apparently this never gained traction.

Personally I think it would have been a good idea, if for nothing else than to prevent pt confusion. I can't tell you how many times I have overheard a layperson state, "a DDS is a dentist, a DMD is an oral surgeon", or similarly misguided words to that effect.

Yes, I am fully aware of all of this, my point being that there is NO difference (minus OMM, but truly nothing else) between DO and MD. Same preprofessional curricula, same MCAT. Same med school curriculum. CAN take the same boards if you're a DO student though the boards are considered "equivalent" in the eyes of the government. Same scope of practice.

So the point I was driving home is that there are two degrees, the public doesn't know the difference, when there is none. Same situation with DDS and DMD. No difference.

 

[CBSstalker]

Honestly screw MD or DO and just change it to "D".

AlteredScale, D.

LOL

 

[racerwad]

Yes, MDO would be a vast improvement. It would be a big symbolic step forward. Are there other areas to focus on in our field? Yes. However, as with any area, much is generated from symbolic movements. MDO would symbolize the emphasis on the medical rigor or our field that we are doctors of medicine not just Osteopathy.

I work in private practice now and the hospital setting and the letters do matter. I do think MDO would be a vast improvement and say to the populace that we are doctors of medicine.

Resistance in this area is usually bolstered by cries that anything other than keeping "DO" comes from insecurity, lack of confidence or other arguments in such vein. I do not believe this is the case however. I believe that the DOs who are brave enough to look at the matter objectively are simply being practical and logical about the benefits of representing our profession and what we do more accurately.

I know that I spent a minority of hours learning osteopathy and many many hours honing medicine which I still use to this day with my patients (without "osteopathy"). I believe our title should designate this in a more accurate manner.

Nothing in this post deserves all this bold text.

 

[Sileni]

Yes, MDO would be a vast improvement. It would be a big symbolic step forward. Are there other areas to focus on in our field? Yes. However, as with any area, much is generated from symbolic movements. MDO would symbolize the emphasis on the medical rigor or our field that we are doctors of medicine not just Osteopathy.

I work in private practice now and the hospital setting and the letters do matter. I do think MDO would be a vast improvement and say to the populace that we are doctors of medicine.

Resistance in this area is usually bolstered by cries that anything other than keeping "DO" comes from insecurity, lack of confidence or other arguments in such vein. I do not believe this is the case however. I believe that the DOs who are brave enough to look at the matter objectively are simply being practical and logical about the benefits of representing our profession and what we do more accurately.

I know that I spent a minority of hours learning osteopathy and many many hours honing medicine which I still use to this day with my patients (without "osteopathy"). I believe our title should designate this in a more accurate manner.

So, MDO would just be confusion to patients, it makes it look like the provider has a MD, when in reality they don't. If you want the MD go to an LCME accreditted medical school, don't try to trick people into believing you have one. You can take 2 more seconds out of your day to educate your patients on the differences.

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

Every god damn year

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

This is so true. If DVM and DMD don't mean physician in the minds of the public (rightfully so, of course), why should MDO?

I'd much rather we as a profession focus on increasing public awareness of the degree than coming up with some other name for the degree.

Best response I've heard to this debate

 

[Fergison2]

I'd like to address a topic here that I often see used on this web site, particularly surrounding this debate; the topic of ego.

Is there an aspect of wanting to change the designation that might be attributed to ego? Maybe, just as there is an aspect of your defending its maintenance that comes from ego.
Though I believe my reasoning is based more in logic and practicality than ego I’d like to take a moment to take a closer look at this topic.

You see, it could be argued that a common brand of response comes from an "ego defense" mode.
The mode goes like this:
student gets accepted to osteopathic school. Student pumps self up about being a DO doctor and all the great things about being a DO. This bolsters the ego and serves to insulate from doubts which might say anything contrary. The downside of this mode however is that it can also insulate from logic reason and arguments which may hold true practical benefit because challenges to this DO ego installation are met with a visceral feeling of disgust (this is the feeling of the ego defenses being challenged). In return a knee jerk defense response is "vomited" out such as "only people with small weeners worry about that" or "ugh again! This topic?!" Etc .
There is no actual reason or logic in these responses because they are based purely in ego defense.
The fact that I had once operated from this mode as an early student makes it clearly understandable and honestly, I can even relate to it.

Now, In the best of all possible worlds, I think we should all be MD as there is no longer a distinguishable difference in medical practice between physicians from Osteopathic or Allopathic schools but when and if that will ever happen is uncertain at best.
I also think that if the DO-> MD conversion were offered again as it was in 1962 but this time in all or most states, it would be the death of the DO degree. Where would this leave those clinging to arguments that degree change debates are for those with small appendage syndrome or the like? I suspect it would leave them un -cloaked of the defenses and I'll leave it at that.

Now until the above stated happens, a more accurate designation would be a logical and practical improvement on our degree. Again, I am done with residency, I work in both the hospital and private practice settings and I have no doubt this would be a step in the right direction.

 

[HotLunch96]

I'd like to address a topic here that I often see used on this web site, particularly surrounding this debate; the topic of ego.

Is there an aspect of wanting to change the designation that might be attributed to ego? Maybe, just as there is an aspect of your defending its maintenance that comes from ego.
Though I believe my reasoning is based more in logic and practicality than ego I’d like to take a moment to take a closer look at this topic.

You see, it could be argued that a common brand of response comes from an "ego defense" mode.
The mode goes like this:
student gets accepted to osteopathic school. Student pumps self up about being a DO doctor and all the great things about being a DO. This bolsters the ego and serves to insulate from doubts which might say anything contrary. The downside of this mode however is that it can also insulate from logic reason and arguments which may hold true practical benefit because challenges to this DO ego installation are met with a visceral feeling of disgust (this is the feeling of the ego defenses being challenged). In return a knee jerk defense response is "vomited" out such as "only people with small weeners worry about that" or "ugh again! This topic?!" Etc .
There is no actual reason or logic in these responses because they are based purely in ego defense.
The fact that I had once operated from this mode as an early student makes it clearly understandable and honestly, I can even relate to it.

Now, In the best of all possible worlds, I think we should all be MD as there is no longer a distinguishable difference in medical practice between physicians from Osteopathic or Allopathic schools but when and if that will ever happen is uncertain at best.
I also think that if the DO-> MD conversion were offered again as it was in 1962 but this time in all or most states, it would be the death of the DO degree. Where would this leave those clinging to arguments that degree change debates are for those with small appendage syndrome or the like? I suspect it would leave them un -cloaked of the defenses and I'll leave it at that.

Now until the above stated happens, a more accurate designation would be a logical and practical improvement on our degree. Again, I am done with residency, I work in both the hospital and private practice settings and I have no doubt this would be a step in the right direction.

Self-preservation of the AOA and deep seeded feelings of inferiority cause for the marketing ploys of being different and special (i.e. "holistic care"). The simple fact is that there is virtually no difference between practicing DO/MDs and the majority of DOs consider themselves doctors rather than "osteopathic physicians".

 

[JimmyB123]

Seriously OP, how much stigma has anyone here even received from patients about being a DO anyways? Sure there is the ACGME and the whole residency business - which is its own monster. But seriously, on any given day at work, how often does anyone even get a patient that is like NOOOO I would NEVER see a DO? At best they are happy you are a DO and legit think you are special (saw this with 2 docs I shadowed, multiple times each), at worst they dont know what it is and you have to spend 30 seconds explaining it? Again, seems like just SDN hype.

To be fair, yeah, on the wards it doesn't matter. No patient will really care. But depending on what kind of social circle you run in OUTSIDE of work, I can see it coming to play. There will be educated "non-medical" folk that know the differences and will ask about it. Usually they aren't judgemental but I've seen it happen, which sucks.

 

[Mjolner]

I also think that if the DO-> MD conversion were offered again as it was in 1962 but this time in all or most states, it would be the death of the DO degree.

My understanding is that there were things done to prevent the DO -> MD conversion from happening again.

 

[CoffeeMonster]

For real? I respectfully assume that you are still in your pre-clinical years and have not experienced the wonder and joy of trying to arrange third year rotations.

At COMP and COMP-NW, many students will have one, two, or three of their three required third year "internal medicine" clerkships at outpatient offices. AFAIK, as long as the preceptor is boarded in IM, it counts as "internal medicine." This is not apocryphal anecdote. I'm not the only person who has noticed this phenomenon at my school and others. I worked hard to make sure that all of my IM rotations were inpatient as well as being located in the same town at the same hospital. If I had let me school handle it, who knows where I would've ended up. Many of my classmates were not so lucky. I think that the reason you don't hear more about it is because there are apologists out there that downplay the significance of weaker clinical experiences at DO schools and they tend to shout down dissenting voices as self-loathing DO-haters.

At COMP-NW, certain students rotate with a podiatrist for their "general surgery" rotation. IMHO, if there isn't ****, it isn't general surgery. A 3rd year clerkship should be an introduction into the very basics of a given specialty. I'm not saying DPMs aren't surgeons/do surgeries; I'm just saying this that is not at all a foundational experience for someone who has never rotated on a surgical service.



I agree that many osteopathic schools (mine included) have a clear focus on primary care. It's my opinion that those experiences are what residency is for. Third year clerkships ought be an opportunity to see various specialties in and out of the hospital. In this way, the students have an opportunity to see for themselves what context they would like to practice medicine in. It shouldn't be the default just because we allow the bar to be set so low.

FWIW, I doing think raising the bar has anything to do with changing the initials behind our names.

@meliora27, I am not implying that you're part of the status quo in my second paragraph

As a podiatry student, I completely agree with you. If a student needs to do a rotation in lower extremity surgery, then DPM all the way but never for general. The last time most DPM's were exposed to general surgery was probably during their residency or maybe as a first assist in rare cases as an attending. That's completely ridiculous that a school would shaft a student like that. That's like asking an OB to teach urology or something.

 

[trev5150]

The least people could do would be to start new threads with something creative, like "Change DO degree to DJMT (Doctor of Jedi Mind Tricks)"

Ancient weapons and hokey religions are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

 

[DocVapor]

I'd like to address a topic here that I often see used on this web site, particularly surrounding this debate; the topic of ego.

Is there an aspect of wanting to change the designation that might be attributed to ego? Maybe, just as there is an aspect of your defending its maintenance that comes from ego.
Though I believe my reasoning is based more in logic and practicality than ego I’d like to take a moment to take a closer look at this topic.

You see, it could be argued that a common brand of response comes from an "ego defense" mode.
The mode goes like this:
student gets accepted to osteopathic school. Student pumps self up about being a DO doctor and all the great things about being a DO. This bolsters the ego and serves to insulate from doubts which might say anything contrary. The downside of this mode however is that it can also insulate from logic reason and arguments which may hold true practical benefit because challenges to this DO ego installation are met with a visceral feeling of disgust (this is the feeling of the ego defenses being challenged). In return a knee jerk defense response is "vomited" out such as "only people with small weeners worry about that" or "ugh again! This topic?!" Etc .
There is no actual reason or logic in these responses because they are based purely in ego defense.
The fact that I had once operated from this mode as an early student makes it clearly understandable and honestly, I can even relate to it.

Now, In the best of all possible worlds, I think we should all be MD as there is no longer a distinguishable difference in medical practice between physicians from Osteopathic or Allopathic schools but when and if that will ever happen is uncertain at best.
I also think that if the DO-> MD conversion were offered again as it was in 1962 but this time in all or most states, it would be the death of the DO degree. Where would this leave those clinging to arguments that degree change debates are for those with small appendage syndrome or the like? I suspect it would leave them un -cloaked of the defenses and I'll leave it at that.

Now until the above stated happens, a more accurate designation would be a logical and practical improvement on our degree. Again, I am done with residency, I work in both the hospital and private practice settings and I have no doubt this would be a step in the right direction.

Ego couldn't possibly have anything to do with wanting to change the degree though, right? Let's see the other way this could go:

Student wants MD school, but has to settle for accepting a seat at a DO school. Student is excited to be a doctor, but secretly feels insecure and unhappy with not obtaining his original goal. This harms the ego and serves to fester irrational misperceptions about the degree. Any comment or question about the student's profession becomes a slight against their own ego, leading to a visceral feeling of disgust. As a knee-jerk defense, the student's own insecurity and desire to obtain his original goal vomits "but there really is no difference, so anyone who thinks we shouldn't change is irrational!"

Now, I'm not saying that neither one of our scenarios ever happens here, because they clearly do.

However, there is nothing logical or practical about changing from one degree that has less-than desired, but rapidly improving recognition, to one that is brand new with absolutely no recognition that will still require extra explanation to the public. The only change that makes any sense is DO -> MD. However I think we all have at least a sneaking suspicion that this won't happen any time soon, or maybe even within our lifetimes.

 

[Promethean]

You know... after reading this thread, I have decided against medical school, in favor of dental school. But only if I can go to a DDS granting school. I want to treat the WHOLE mouth, not just the cavities.

 

[DocVapor]

If a DO --> MD conversion were seriously proposed, you could expect a fair amount of backlash from my community (MDs). Many of us (most of us?) are just as proud of our degree as you are of yours.

A fait accompli that turned you into me would be very upsetting to me, because saying that "DOs and MDs have similar education and the same scope of practice" is not the same thing as "DOs are MDs." I think that such a move would squander much of what I think is an increasing rapproachment and increased understanding between the communities.

Oh I would fully expect that and I agree with your points here. I should have added the caveat: "If a degree change is going to happen, the only one that makes sense to fulfill the requirements of it's advocates, would be to do DO->MD." I wouldn't be an advocate for it. However, hypothetically speaking, it's easy to say that I wouldn't make the switch. The reality is that if the change were a actual option and I had a form in front of me that said "Change my degree from D.O. to M.D. from henceforward," it would probably be much a much more difficult decision.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

If she was out of state it's even better. Isn't their out of state tuition like 70K

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

If a DO --> MD conversion were seriously proposed, you could expect a fair amount of backlash from my community (MDs). Many of us (most of us?) are just as proud of our degree as you are of yours.

A fait accompli that turned you into me would be very upsetting to me, because saying that "DOs and MDs have similar education and the same scope of practice" is not the same thing as "DOs are MDs." I think that such a move would squander much of what I think is an increasing rapproachment and increased understanding between the communities.

Ya you're right. Most people who want the change I think just have MD envy. DO's need to start concentrating on educating the public about "what a D.O. is" instead of wasting time.

 

[DocVapor]

If she was out of state it's even better. Isn't their out of state tuition like 70K

Does this belong in the thread about that girl that went DO-DC?

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Does this belong in the thread about that girl that went DO-DC?

She transferred from MSUCOM, and their out of state tuition is insane (like 70K and instate is substantially less). Throwing away two years at 40K (tuition roughly at most COMs) is bad enough, but she may have thrown away nearly twice that, is all I was saying.

 

[trev5150]

I could use a Big Mick

 

[DocVapor]

She transferred from MSUCOM, and their out of state tuition is insane (like 70K and instate is substantially less). Throwing away two years at 40K (tuition roughly at most COMs) is bad enough, but she may have thrown away nearly twice that, is all I was saying.

I know, it's just that this thread isn't the thread that was talking about her, and I was confused.

 

[NontradCA]

Agreed. I'm not a DO, but I've never really understood the impetus to change the name to something other than MD. I could see if there was actual, honest confusion about DO vs "osteopath" in other countries. But the reality is that Americans don't give two craps about other nations' opinions, and it's highly unlikely anyone but immigrants is even aware of that issue.

But I have to say, it is amusing to see these threads pop up intermittently. I've never really understood the subset of people who genuinely believe they would get any benefit by making the letters closer to MD.

I'm probably dating myself, but it kind of reminds me of:

 

[YankeeCandle1141]

I heard that the big players in the AOA have read this thread, after all of these incredibly original arguments they have realized that they should change the degree!

My guess is it was either the "patients are confused about what DO means" argument or the "we basically are the same as MDs" argument that convinced them.

 

[DloopF2]

-

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

I know, it's just that this thread isn't the thread that was talking about her, and I was confused.

Haha wow I just noticed I was in the wrong thread thanks for pointing that out. That's what I get for having too many SDN tabs open at once

 

[hallowmann]

If a DO --> MD conversion were seriously proposed, you could expect a fair amount of backlash from my community (MDs). Many of us (most of us?) are just as proud of our degree as you are of yours.

A fait accompli that turned you into me would be very upsetting to me, because saying that "DOs and MDs have similar education and the same scope of practice" is not the same thing as "DOs are MDs." I think that such a move would squander much of what I think is an increasing rapproachment and increased understanding between the communities.

So what I hear you saying is that we should convert both the MD and DO degrees to MDO, right? Firguson was right all along.

The main benefit to a degree change would be an end to threads like these, but then they'd probably be replaced by threads calling for a change back.

Agreed. I'm not a DO, but I've never really understood the impetus to change the name to something other than MD. I could see if there was actual, honest confusion about DO vs "osteopath" in other countries. But the reality is that Americans don't give two craps about other nations' opinions, and it's highly unlikely anyone but immigrants is even aware of that issue.

But I have to say, it is amusing to see these threads pop up intermittently. I've never really understood the subset of people who genuinely believe they would get any benefit by making the letters closer to MD.

I'm probably dating myself, but it kind of reminds me of:

Props for citing one of my all-time favorite movies. "They got the golden arches, mine the golden arcs."

 

[Fergison2]

So what I hear you saying is that we should convert both the MD and DO degrees to MDO, right? Firguson was right all along."

It's FergIson son. And that's a great idea.

Oh and I love that movie too. Thanks for the post random Allopathic Resident posting opinions on an Osteopathic forum. I wonder what would prompt that?

Interesting to see how many on these forums will admit that if they had the chance given to them they would switch the degree to MD yet cry out when a proposition is put forth to alter our degree to something that contains the word medicine for medical doctor and looks less like a vestige of ol Andrew Taylor Poot n Toot's time. I think that many may change their tune as they progress onward but time will tell.

As for McDowell's, my recollection is that they cleaned up. It is an interesting example though as there has likely never been another time when two businesses have had such similarities. We never see it in the products of today. They are always way way different right?

 

[Fergison2]

Thanks man.

I actually have a great deal of pride in what I earned. And what I earned was much more than two letters. These are just an antiquated representation of the medical degree that I earned. I am a highly rated physician and I love what I do. I kicked ass through residency with the A to the C to the GME and did not miss a step. Those two letters are not all I earned, they are a vestige.

Nope, no coincidence there. They look quite similar don't they? There is a reason for that... So do the two physicians.

Pride, check. Old funny sounding representation of my medical degree, check.

 

[kirkirkir]

"John Smith MD DO". he's a doctor and an osteopath. win win. you'll be holy in the eyes of AT Still (peace be upon him), your patients wont be confused, there will be no more bias, and your folks will be proud of you. plus more letters. more letters are great.

 

[NontradCA]

Eh, I'm always in and out of the osteo forums.

But I mean, if you wanna be snippy about it, I suppose I could argue that I got the right to post opinions in your forum when you proposed copying my degree? No, I'm probably wrong, it's probably just a coincidence that the first two letters of MDO are "MD". Definitely not intended to confuse, right? I'm sure when you say those letters out loud your voice doesn't drop to a whisper on the "O".

Good God man, have some pride in what you earned.

Thanks man.

I actually have a great deal of pride in what I earned. And what I earned was much more than two letters. These are just an antiquated representation of the medical degree that I earned. I am a highly rated physician and I love what I do. I kicked ass through residency with the A to the C to the GME and did not miss a step. Those two letters are not all I earned, they are a vestige.

Nope, no coincidence there. They look quite similar don't they? There is a reason for that... So do the two physicians.

Pride, check. Old funny sounding representation of my medical degree, check.

 

[Jwalker]

There's no point in arguing with stupid. Just let this guy tape a letter "m" in front of his do and be done with it.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Imagine seeing a list of doctors at your local hospital and instead of seeing:
MD
MD
DO
MD
MD
you would see this
MD
MD
MDO
MD
MD

Just sayin'... what patients actually see at most hospitals is:
DOCTOR
or
PHYSICIAN
emblazoned on the nametag of people walking around. So unless they're scrutinizing your badge (if it even has the degree printed), they won't notice or care.

 

[Fergison2]

There's no point in arguing with stupid. Just let this guy tape a letter "m" in front of his do and be done with it.

Not being able to formulate an argument and resorting to ad hominem is a sure sign of intelligence. Its brilliance lies in efficiency. This approach circumvents all the painful work that darn cortex has to do.

 

[NurWollen]

There's no point in arguing with stupid. Just let this guy tape a letter "m" in front of his do and be done with it.

He could change his last name to his middle name and his last name to M.
"Air Jordan M, DO."

 

[Fergison2]

Just sayin'... what patients actually see at most hospitals is:
DOCTOR
or
PHYSICIAN
emblazoned on the nametag of people walking around. So unless they're scrutinizing your badge (if it even has the degree printed), they won't notice or care.

This is a nice sentiment. I "like" it too. Kind of gives you a warm fuzzy. Warm, fuzzy and unfortunately inaccurate. (sad face)