Chargeback on DO Deposit?

[qwertyasdfgh123]

I know that this may seem completely unethical but I was wondering if I could get your opinions/viewpoint. I was accepted to a DO school back in September and they charged me a $2,000 deposit which I paid for by credit card. I was recently accepted to an MD school and was wondering what would happen if I disputed the credit card charge through a chargeback. I know that it's completely unethical but I'm really strapped for cash right now and losing $2,000 is a little more than I can swallow. What would the ramifications of disputing the $2,000 charge be?

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[Coltuna]

I know that this may seem completely unethical but I was wondering if I could get your opinions/viewpoint. I was accepted to a DO school back in September and they charged me a $2,000 deposit which I paid for by credit card. I was recently accepted to an MD school and was wondering what would happen if I disputed the credit card charge through a chargeback. I know that it's completely unethical but I'm really strapped for cash right now and losing $2,000 is a little more than I can swallow. What would the ramifications of disputing the $2,000 charge be?

You will lose. You know that fine print that most (all) people just skim over before signing the deposit agreement? Somewhere in there are the words "non-refundable." Are you going to argue that you don't know anything about the charges?

 

[de Ribas]

I know that it's completely unethical but I'm

Is that how you plan to start career in medicine?

What else will fill in the blanks in the future?

I know it is completely unethical, but I am [.......................]

 

[DO2015CA]

You are willing to do something that seems unethical? If you saw it as ethical because they are thieves in suits and are unethically charging you 2k to hold a seat then I could see why you wanted to do it. But if you acknowledge it being unethical idk how your morals can let you do it. You’re about to start a career that hammers you on professionalism. Start using it now, nothing more unprofessional than doing something that you view as unethical. You are going into a career with a high level of trust so be professional in all aspects of your life.

This is coming from someone that paid for the whole cycle and deposit(S!) myself and was struggling too. Life throws you wrenches, although yours is a good wrench (USMD), adjust and move on.

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

“Losing $2,000”
That money is not yours anymore. There is nothing to lose. Be happy you are fortunate enough to have been accepted to medical school and are becoming a doctor! If you are really that strapped for cash, then use your intelligence (obviously you have some sort of intelligence since you were accepted to medical school), and find a way to earn some extra money, for example tutoring.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I know that it's completely unethical

Then you also know that you shouldn’t do it.

 

[Robin-jay]

I know that this may seem completely unethical but I was wondering if I could get your opinions/viewpoint.

My viewpoint doesn't matter.

The law does though.

 

[Magus5454]

I think the fact that you made another account to ask this should answer your question

 

[pstrick]

Typical MD.

(kidding)

 

[qwertyasdfgh123]

The DO school I mentioned is accredited by WASC and it seems that WASC has set rules for deposits.

Therefore, even though the school says that the deposit is non-refundable, could I still pursue the $2,000? I don't understand how the school in question can say that I am required to pay a $2,000 deposit while their accrediting body says that any deposit over the amount of $100 shall be refunded.

I agree that performing a credit card chargeback is unethical and have decided against that path, but how would I go about recovering the $2,000 deposit using WASC's own guidelines?

Per the WASC Policy Manual

910.02 Refunds, when due, must be made without requiring a request from the student.

910.03 Refunds, when due, must be made within 30 days (1) of the last day of
attendance if written notification of withdrawal has been provided to the institution by the
student, or (2) from the date the institution terminates the student or determines
withdrawal by the student.
910.04 All refunds shall be made within sixty (60) days of the student's last day of
attendance.
910.05 Retention of tuition and fees collected in advance for a student who does not
commence class shall not exceed $100.
910.06 The institution must comply with the refund policies adopted by the
Commission.

920. Commission Refund Policy
As referenced in item 910.06 above, the refund policy adopted by the Commission is as
stated below.
920.01 Refunds for Classes Canceled by the Institution: If tuition and fees are
collected in advance of the start date of a program and the institution cancels the class,
100% of the tuition and fees collected must be refunded. The refund shall be made within
30 days of the planned start date.
920.02 Refunds for Students Who Withdraw On or Before the First Day of Class:
If tuition and fees are collected in advance of the start date of classes and the student does
not begin classes or withdraws on the first day of classes, no more than $100 of the
tuition and fees may be retained by the institution. Appropriate refunds for a student who
does not begin classes shall be made within 30 days of the class start date.
920.03 Refunds for Students Enrolled Prior to Visiting the Institution: Students
who have not visited the institution prior to enrollment will have the opportunity to
withdraw without penalty within three days following either attendance at a regularly
scheduled orientation or following a tour of the facilities and inspection of the equipment

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

The DO school I mentioned is accredited by WASC and it seems that WASC has set rules for deposits.

Therefore, even though the school says that the deposit is non-refundable, could I still pursue the $2,000? I don't understand how the school in question can say that I am required to pay a $2,000 deposit while their accrediting body says that any deposit over the amount of $100 shall be refunded.

I agree that performing a credit card chargeback is unethical and have decided against that path, but how would I go about recovering the $2,000 deposit using WASC's own guidelines?

Per the WASC Policy Manual

910.02 Refunds, when due, must be made without requiring a request from the student.

910.03 Refunds, when due, must be made within 30 days (1) of the last day of
attendance if written notification of withdrawal has been provided to the institution by the
student, or (2) from the date the institution terminates the student or determines
withdrawal by the student.
910.04 All refunds shall be made within sixty (60) days of the student's last day of
attendance.
910.05 Retention of tuition and fees collected in advance for a student who does not
commence class shall not exceed $100.
910.06 The institution must comply with the refund policies adopted by the
Commission.

920. Commission Refund Policy
As referenced in item 910.06 above, the refund policy adopted by the Commission is as
stated below.
920.01 Refunds for Classes Canceled by the Institution: If tuition and fees are
collected in advance of the start date of a program and the institution cancels the class,
100% of the tuition and fees collected must be refunded. The refund shall be made within
30 days of the planned start date.
920.02 Refunds for Students Who Withdraw On or Before the First Day of Class:
If tuition and fees are collected in advance of the start date of classes and the student does
not begin classes or withdraws on the first day of classes, no more than $100 of the
tuition and fees may be retained by the institution. Appropriate refunds for a student who
does not begin classes shall be made within 30 days of the class start date.
920.03 Refunds for Students Enrolled Prior to Visiting the Institution: Students
who have not visited the institution prior to enrollment will have the opportunity to
withdraw without penalty within three days following either attendance at a regularly
scheduled orientation or following a tour of the facilities and inspection of the equipment

None of that applies to your deposit.... you have no legal grounds to withdraw your deposit and the school has full right to that 2k.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

And no the medical college is not accredited by WASC. They are accredited by COCA.

 

[qwertyasdfgh123]

I might as well just say the school at this point. It is Touro-CA and it is indeed accredited by WASC.

I also found this:

California Education Code Section 94919
94919. (a) An institution that participates in the federal student financial aid programs complies with this article by complying with applicable regulations of the federal student financial aid programs under Title IV of the federal Higher Education Act of 1965.



(b) The institution shall advise each student that a notice of cancellation shall be in writing, and that a withdrawal may be effectuated by the student s written notice or by the student s conduct, including, but not necessarily limited to, a student s lack of attendance.



(c) The institution shall also provide a pro rata refund of nonfederal student financial aid program moneys paid for institutional charges to students who have completed 60 percent or less of the period of attendance.



(d) Institutions shall refund 100 percent of the amount paid for institutional charges, less a reasonable deposit or application fee not to exceed two hundred fifty dollars ($250), if notice of cancellation is made through attendance at the first class session, or the seventh day after enrollment, whichever is later.

That sounds pretty clear cut to me...

 

[qwertyasdfgh123]

None of that applies to your deposit.... you have no legal grounds to withdraw your deposit and the school has full right to that 2k.

What I posted above sounds like legal grounds to me, does it not?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I might as well just say the school at this point. It is Touro-CA and it is indeed accredited by WASC.

I also found this:

California Education Code Section 94919
94919. (a) An institution that participates in the federal student financial aid programs complies with this article by complying with applicable regulations of the federal student financial aid programs under Title IV of the federal Higher Education Act of 1965.



(b) The institution shall advise each student that a notice of cancellation shall be in writing, and that a withdrawal may be effectuated by the student s written notice or by the student s conduct, including, but not necessarily limited to, a student s lack of attendance.



(c) The institution shall also provide a pro rata refund of nonfederal student financial aid program moneys paid for institutional charges to students who have completed 60 percent or less of the period of attendance.



(d) Institutions shall refund 100 percent of the amount paid for institutional charges, less a reasonable deposit or application fee not to exceed two hundred fifty dollars ($250), if notice of cancellation is made through attendance at the first class session, or the seventh day after enrollment, whichever is later.

That sounds pretty clear cut to me...

No they aren’t. WASC is the institutional accreditor, COCA is the accreditation body for the College of Osteopathic Medicine, to whom your deposit was paid. The deposit guidelines for the college of Osteopathic medicine fall under the purview of COCA.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

I give you props for doing your homework. I'm not sure how institutional/college accreditation or state law affects the ability to collect a seat deposit, thought @AnatomyGrey12 has an explanation that makes sense.

Back to your initial question, however, I do not believe you have grounds to initiate a chargeback (no technical or clerical mistakes, no fraud, and no "quality" issue [i.e., goods not received or produced as promised]). From the bank's perspective you paid what you promised in a contract. You can try, but I expect it would get nowhere.
Other options are to
1) ask the school.
2) get professional legal advice.
3) suck it up and eat the deposit like you said you would when you agreed to pay the non-refundable deposit.

 

[de Ribas]

I might as well just say the school at this point. It is Touro-CA and it is indeed accredited by WASC.

I also found this:

California Education Code Section 94919
94919. (a) An institution that participates in the federal student financial aid programs complies with this article by complying with applicable regulations of the federal student financial aid programs under Title IV of the federal Higher Education Act of 1965.



(b) The institution shall advise each student that a notice of cancellation shall be in writing, and that a withdrawal may be effectuated by the student s written notice or by the student s conduct, including, but not necessarily limited to, a student s lack of attendance.



(c) The institution shall also provide a pro rata refund of nonfederal student financial aid program moneys paid for institutional charges to students who have completed 60 percent or less of the period of attendance.



(d) Institutions shall refund 100 percent of the amount paid for institutional charges, less a reasonable deposit or application fee not to exceed two hundred fifty dollars ($250), if notice of cancellation is made through attendance at the first class session, or the seventh day after enrollment, whichever is later.

That sounds pretty clear cut to me...

You may kindly email or call the school and ask and see what they say.

Otherwise, if you really just want to save $2000, go to that school and don't pay deposit to an MD school.

 

[workaholic181]

Frankly I think it’s somewhat unethical that some DO schools have huge deposits and early deadlines but that’s a different discussion.

You have no legal grounding here OP. You can call the school but the answers going to be no. I’m sorry you lost out on that money but in the grand scheme of things it’s not a huge deal.

 

[deleted480308]

You can ask if they will refund but it’s crappy moral reasoning to even think you have a right to the money

 

[ortnakas]

I'm sure you signed some sort of agreement when you gave them the $2000.

Not defending DO deposits, they suck, but I don't know how you can argue it's an accidental or fraudulent charge when there's almost definitely paperwork with your signature stating you paid it on purpose.

 

[RNthenDoc]

I feel your pain, but it is the price of the game.

Between travel expenses, time off work, and deposits... The application process seems brutal to me.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

You would be in essence committing fraud against your credit card company. I would just accept the loss and move on. You don't want this to escalate and then they damage your credit by eliminating your card. The school will win this.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

I feel you on how much this sucks; I have a deposit due this Thursday (the 14th) and my top choice school informed me that they are likely releasing decisions this Friday or early next week.

It sucks, but no one is forcing you to pay the deposit. You're essentially committing fraud if you try and do this.

 

[DO2015CA]

I feel you on how much this sucks; I have a deposit due this Thursday (the 14th) and my top choice school informed me that they are likely releasing decisions this Friday or early next week.

It sucks, but no one is forcing you to pay the deposit. You're essentially committing fraud if you try and do this.

You can call your top Choice and explain your situation. I have heard that they will tell you because they understand it’s not fair.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

You can call your top Choice and explain your situation. I have heard that they will tell you because they understand it’s not fair.

Hm, do you think? I would assume that they know of the situation (most DO schools have deposits due by the 14th) and would've tried to release the decisions today or tomorrow if they cared? I'm sure a lot of other applicants are being impacted by this as well.

 

[DO2015CA]

Hm, do you think? I would assume that they know of the situation (most DO schools have deposits due by the 14th) and would've tried to release the decisions today or tomorrow if they cared? I'm sure a lot of other applicants are being impacted by this as well.

You can try. What’s the worst that will happen? Be respectful and explain that they are your top choice and are strapped for cash/would rather put one deposit down.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

You can try. What’s the worst that will happen? Be respectful and explain that they are your top choice and are strapped for cash/would rather put one deposit down.

@Goro what do you think about potentially doing this? I am worried it might come off as "I deserve special treatment".

 

[Goro]

@Goro what do you think about potentially doing this? I am worried it might come off as "I deserve special treatment".

I can't imagine how this will net anything positive for you. Look, short term expenditure = long term gain. Investment yields dividends.

 

[DO2015CA]

Follow his advice being an adcom