Probably COCA's plan all along honestly. More DOs = More PCPs = Pockets lined and clapping on the back by Governmental bodies. I'd be happy going into Family Med, but it's apparent that DO leadership doesn't really truly care about it's current students' goals besides it's primary care output.
What makes for a good EM job?Matching EM is easy. Getting a good EM job...not so much.
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You'd have to ask them.
I think its important to understand the difference between number and percent. The percent is going down. But the number of DOs matching into specialties definitely is not. The decreased percent matching in to specialties is due to increased DO students. Even if the numbers look low, im not sure much has changed as long as you are not going to a brand new school.
Yeah I'm not actually that worried since I'm not even sure if I'll apply gas or something else, but at the end of the day it's on me to get the scores and eltters and stuff that I need
Everybody thinks they want to go into primary care but no one wants to crank out any heavy-ass RVUs
Eventually it will be tough to get Any EM job let alone a good one. ACEP projects a surplus of 10k emergency medicine physicians by 2030
That's not necessarily true either. I went to ARCOM, and we had a 99.3% match rate this year ( I mean true match rate not post soap). The one and only person that didn't match and had to soap was applying ortho. We had 4/5 match rate for Ortho, 4/4 DR, 4/4 Gas, 2/2 PM&R, 8/8 psych, 3/3 OBGYN, 2/2 GS. I'd say we did pretty well for a new school.
I mean, not being able to get paid because you can’t find a job is a massive problem far worse than not being able to match your most coveted specialty… Have we learned nothing from EM and Rad Onc?
Maybe that’s fine? Medicine isn’t a career you should go into if your primary goal is to make money?
Hard disagree here. Going into medicine for the money is a perfectly fine reason, and while it’s not my personal main reason (def top 3 tho), I don’t think it’s fair at all to say that others shouldn’t. I know people always like to say “there are better ways to make lots of money” but no other career offers such a high salary with so much security. CS? The median is in the low hundreds and the jobs that make 200-300K plus are rare and in HCOL cities. Finance? Jobs that pay physician money are uncommon and nowhere near as secure. Medicine is a fine vehicle for building generational wealth.
Probably a big reason why the most skilled doctors are in the United States and why many of the most skilled doctors from other countries want to come to the United stages
I'm going to disagree with you a bit. Realistically compound interest and lack of a couple hundred thousand dollars of debt would make it way easier to build generational wealth. Also think about how much you need to move around as a physician during school, residency, maybe fellowship, new attending job, working 50+ hours a week. You potentially lose the opportunity to build a lot of social capital as a doc which could have benefited your children and grandchildren.
There are IT guys right now making 100k with a fraction of the debt that medical students have...add on an MBA from somewhere reputable
300K debt with guaranteed salary of 250K+ over a lifetime ends up being a much better deal than the average or median of any other career. If we’re talking about the average physician vs the average anything else, it’s a clear winner.
The median MGMA for radiology was just under 500K, and I can promise you they’re not working way more hours than MBAs or CS people. You’re comparing the top percentiles of MBAs or CS people to the average of physicians. The opportunities exist far less commonly among those other fields. People seem to get caught up in their bubble of friends who went to top tier schools with them and landed top tier jobs thinking that everyone in Med school could land amazing jobs in other fields, which just isn’t true.
No. But it’s completely stupid to train constantly for a minimum of 7 years to not even have a job which is exactly what you’re advocating for.
The financial and career security medicine provides are unparalleled. It’s a perfectly valid reason to go into medicine. This is a job.
I have a family member in high end tech. For every person that makes it there are literally hundreds that fail. It’s not a very good argument.
How many?
Yeah idk why med students think they can just walk into a 6figure tech job
We really need to start bridge programs so ED physicians can be qualified in hospital medicine, primary care, and other fields where their skills can transfer without them going unemployed or having to start training from scratch
i think especially for people who chose em before the oversupply data was published. Kinda feel like people choosing it now know what they’re getting into but just think it won’t happen to them
Isn't DO school expansion already quickly outpacing residency spot expansion? Either way, they simply do not care.
Our Dean stressed this to us. Most of the 4th year students at my program that went unmatched were aiming for a cutting specialty. I think all but a handful that were aiming for primary care went unmatched. The numbers this year emphasized that surgical specialties are not DO friendly, even for qualified applicants, and that students need to have a backup plan and to be realistic with their goals. I came in wanting IM, but we'll see how that changes once we hit rotations.
I would say the normal things that cause one not to match...failed or scored really low on a board exam, not a very competitive application, poor interview skills, didn't apply broadly enough, poor clinical grades, weak LORs, etc.
I agree with bridge programs but the problem is a good ER education doesn’t make them qualified for hospital medicine or outpatient. There is a lot more to learn for chronic management/after stabilization. I would agree with giving them credit for residency months that they did. So like their 1 month of IM, 2 months of icu, any translatable electives, etc. this could maybe cut off 1 year for another specialty depending how applicable. Maybe 1.5 years at most
Multiple board failures or the EVEN BIGGER reason of professionalism
I would imagine it would be a 2 year endeavor to switch to IM or FM, most likely. But having it be a fellowship type setup that isn't open to new graduates would ensure that they aren't competing with fresh grads and that their funding would be intact
I think that would be an acceptable “fellowship”. Lol ER residency with a primary care fellowship lol
It's the only way I see to keep them employed and get them out of ER medicine without putting them into direct competition with new grads
Maybe this will help get ARCOM off Goro's naughty list. When combined with figuring out the previous posts about clinical education budget being proven false as well, the complaining student was simply upset the school wouldn't pay over $5,000 in "DO application fees" for a couple of high end away rotations that charged DO's significantly more than MD students. Those are good results for a school that focuses on a primary care mission, but also assists the students pursuing subspecialty residency as well.
Traditionally, MD students paid little attention to PM&R, but that tide is shifting, hence more demand on that side. PM&R still love the fact that DO applicants have stronger MSK skills, which are a good skillset for this specialty, so good DO applicants should continue to have their applications viewed very positively by PD's.
DO administrators are being hired by holding companies, private institutions, healthcare systems and corporate entities that are opening schools. There isn't a DO administrator in the country that has a holding interest in the school they are opening or have opened. They are employees. Can you say they are complacent in the system of expansion, maybe? But I believe most DO deans, associate deans, admin, faculty, etc. ARE trying their best to have good schools and raise the degree to higher levels, whether it is a new school or one with 100+ years of existence. I have no problem with people having issues with the expansion of the profession, and many of my colleagues around the country completely agree that it is something that desperately needs to slow down, but to put this school expansion problem down at the level of the administrators at the schools is pointing the finger in the wrong direction.
Current grads more regularly doing fellowships that offer an out. Can do crit care, pain, addiction, palliative etc.
Both males from my school who were seeking OBGYN matched successfully. It never hurts to try! Apply broadly, and have a back up plan.Anybody want to breakdown the chances of a male DO matching OBGYN cause it looks rough 🤣
Like anything, depends on the app. OB will probably be rough for any DO with a red flag imo.Anybody want to breakdown the chances of a male DO matching OBGYN cause it looks rough 🤣
Men are highly sought-after in the the OBG match.Anybody want to breakdown the chances of a male DO matching OBGYN cause it looks rough 🤣
From my OB friends (all women), males are sought after in OB residency because it is such a women dominated field. One joked and even said they are URMsAnybody want to breakdown the chances of a male DO matching OBGYN cause it looks rough 🤣
Yeah, I am thinking of dual applying with family, but it is so difficult to put together two apps.
