Cheap DO vs Expensive MD

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Like I mentioned already, even though an MD in theory opens more doors career-wise, those are career choices that are still closed to the majority of MD students anyway. Yes, it's much easier to match Derm, Ortho, Uro, ENT, Plastics and Neurosx from an MD school....but most MD students still don't have what it takes to match those fields anyway so it doesn't effing matter.

90% of physicians are primarily clinicians in the community or at low-to-mid level academic centres. More likely than not, that's what you're going to be doing too, so you might as well go to a school that you'll be happy with.
 
Yes, it's much easier to match Derm, Ortho, Uro, ENT, Plastics and Neurosx from an MD school....but most MD students still don't have what it takes to match those fields anyway so it doesn't effing matter.

I have always found this line of reasoning interesting. It amounts to "You're probably not good enough, so don't even try." Not the most compelling argument, IMHO.
 
If you want to go a ACGME / MD competitive specialty, then yes going to the DO school will put you at an disadvantage. However, all those competitive ACGME programs have AOA counterparts; thus making a lot of the above arguments moot. I went to the cheapest school, got into one of the most competitive specialties, and am going to a great ACGME/MD *gasp* fellowship. And I'm 200k plus richer. :banana:
 
If you want to go a ACGME / MD competitive specialty, then yes going to the DO school will put you at an disadvantage. However, all those competitive ACGME programs have AOA counterparts; thus making a lot of the above arguments moot. I went to the cheapest school, got into one of the most competitive specialties, and am going to a great ACGME/MD *gasp* fellowship. And I'm 200k plus richer. :banana:

Finally. This guy👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
 
If you want to go a ACGME / MD competitive specialty, then yes going to the DO school will put you at an disadvantage. However, all those competitive ACGME programs have AOA counterparts; thus making a lot of the above arguments moot. I went to the cheapest school, got into one of the most competitive specialties, and am going to a great ACGME/MD *gasp* fellowship. And I'm 200k plus richer. :banana:
Aren't the AOA and ACGME residencies merging, so DOs starting now won't have their own options anymore.
 
I have always found this line of reasoning interesting. It amounts to "You're probably not good enough, so don't even try." Not the most compelling argument, IMHO.

That's a fair opinion. At the same time though, if you're historically a struggling student or someone who's had trouble with standardised exams, etc - these things are probably not going to change drastically in medical school. No, undergrad & MCAT performance aren't totally correlated with med school performance and there are people who haul ass and turn things around, but people who were never at the top of the class aren't likely to suddenly become AOA rockstars matching in ENT and Plastics.

If you're considering going into hundreds of thousands of dollars of high-interest, non-dischargeable extra debt on the greater, but still relatively slim chance that you'll have a shot at something ultra competitive that DOs match poorly into then you're being unrealistic and somewhat immature. When you're playing with your future and hundreds of thousands of dollars of someone else's money, you have to consider what the most likely outcome and plan for the worst while hoping for the best.

If you want to go a ACGME / MD competitive specialty, then yes going to the DO school will put you at an disadvantage. However, all those competitive ACGME programs have AOA counterparts; thus making a lot of the above arguments moot. I went to the cheapest school, got into one of the most competitive specialties, and am going to a great ACGME/MD *gasp* fellowship. And I'm 200k plus richer. :banana:


While this is very much possible, don't assume that everyone is playing with the same hand you're playing with.
 
lol obviously on SDN almost everyone would tell you MD. I think I would personally consider the specialty I want to go into. If you think there's a good chance you want something very competitive or specialized, MD will likely be worth it. But if you're just aiming for a semi competitive field, i.e. IM, EM, FM, etc. you'll be fine with a DO if you work hard. Ultimately the degree you have might be a factor but residency programs will consider the whole applicant rather than just whether you're an MD or DO. I would also think about the schools and the atmosphere you will learn best in and enjoy.

Even in noncompetitive specialties, US MD is superior to US DO. This has been discussed thoroughly elsewhere. The possible reasons could be due to US MD schools inherently offer more resources or have better clinical rotations due to much stricter ACGME/LCME regulations. And quality of clinical education matters a lot for any residency in any specialty.

If you want to go a ACGME / MD competitive specialty, then yes going to the DO school will put you at an disadvantage. However, all those competitive ACGME programs have AOA counterparts; thus making a lot of the above arguments moot. I went to the cheapest school, got into one of the most competitive specialties, and am going to a great ACGME/MD *gasp* fellowship. And I'm 200k plus richer. :banana:
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1. You are assuming AOA spots are comparable in quality to ACGME spots. The residents/attendings here say otherwise. And I think even in residency level, AOA/COCA doesn't provide as strict standards in assessing/maintaing quality as ACGME/LCME

2. The 2020 merger will open AOA spots to US MD. US DO students wouldn't benefit as much as getting into ACGME residencies post-merger; but US MD students will definitely benefit a lot with more options.

The pick between US MD and US DO isn't just about long-term specialty choice. It's also about quality of 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations, which is absolutely critical to shaping students to become good residents. US MD schools have generally better clinical rotations because the overseeing ACGME/LCME imposed very strict standards and aren't afraid to slam the school and put them on probation if their quality is poor. The AOA/COCA is too lax. This is why the osteo forums complain about subpar clinical education; and why MD attendings note differences in quality between MD interns and DO interns.

All of this I learned from discussions with the residents and attendings on SDN and on real life. If you don't believe me, fine, and I'm happy to post the links as references and/or defer to said residents/attendings who can discuss this at even more depth.
 
Something else to throw into the mix is that the number of AOA residencies isn't that many. There are only about 2-3000, and there are 5-7000 DO grads! There are plenty of total residency slots in the US.



Even in noncompetitive specialties, US MD is superior to US DO. This has been discussed thoroughly elsewhere. The possible reasons could be due to US MD schools inherently offer more resources or have better clinical rotations due to much stricter ACGME/LCME regulations. And quality of clinical education matters a lot for any residency in any specialty.


1. You are assuming AOA spots are comparable in quality to ACGME spots. The residents/attendings here say otherwise. And I think even in residency level, AOA/COCA doesn't provide as strict standards in assessing/maintaing quality as ACGME/LCME

2. The 2020 merger will open AOA spots to US MD. US DO students wouldn't benefit as much as getting into ACGME residencies post-merger; but US MD students will definitely benefit a lot with more options.

The pick between US MD and US DO isn't just about long-term specialty choice. It's also about quality of 3rd and 4th year clinical rotations, which is absolutely critical to shaping students to become good residents. US MD schools have generally better clinical rotations because the overseeing ACGME/LCME imposed very strict standards and aren't afraid to slam the school and put them on probation if their quality is poor. The AOA/COCA is too lax. This is why the osteo forums complain about subpar clinical education; and why MD attendings note differences in quality between MD interns and DO interns.

All of this I learned from discussions with the residents and attendings on SDN and on real life. If you don't believe me, fine, and I'm happy to post the links as references and/or defer to said residents/attendings who can discuss this at even more depth.
 
When discussing MD and DO, it always comes down to "some" or "specific"

Yeah if you go to a specific, certain program you may be at a disadvantage for a certain, specific ENT/plastic/derm/rocketscience residency at NASA/Harvard/Oxford combined residency program.

Practically and in 90% of cases it does not make a difference where you go.

Wrong. MD > DO in almost every imaginable circumstance. Just peruse the forums for posts by DOs going through interview season. It's very clear. I don't know why you guys think there are distinctions for DO schools. There are schools that people have heard of and those that they haven't. They are all "DO".

When I was in medical school, I used to advocate for cheaper MD schools over more expensive MD schools. Now I don't. After seeing what happens in the match between MD and DO, it's not even close. Feel free to take a look at charting the outcomes yourself for the raw numbers.

Psai is notoriously a downer on DO's. Just let it go mane.

It might assuage your ego to assure yourself that it's all prestige whoring and bias. Psai is just a do downer for no reason! But guess what? I'm not the one that has to match in 3 years, it's you. So when someone with more experience offers guidance, the smart thing to do is to shut up and pay attention.
 
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Something else to throw into the mix is that the number of AOA residencies isn't that many. There are only about 2-3000, and there are 5-7000 DO grads! There are plenty of total residency slots in the US.

what. then why are AOA/COCA so lax in opening up so many new DO schools?

also a related question to you and @AlteredScale . Do US MD students need to take COMLEX to apply to AOA residencies?
 
Wrong. MD > DO in almost every imaginable circumstance. Just peruse the forums for posts by DOs going through interview season. It's very clear. I don't know why you guys think there are distinctions for DO schools. There are schools that people have heard of and those that they haven't. They are all "DO".

When I was in medical school, I used to advocate for cheaper over more expensive MD schools. Now I don't. After seeing what happens in the match, between MD and DO, it's not even close.
 
Wrong. MD > DO in almost every imaginable circumstance. Just peruse the forums for posts by DOs going through interview season. It's very clear. I don't know why you guys think there are distinctions for DO schools. There are schools that people have heard of and those that they haven't. They are all "DO".

When I was in medical school, I used to advocate for cheaper MD schools over more expensive MD schools. Now I don't. After seeing what happens in the match between MD and DO, it's not even close. Feel free to take a look at charting the outcomes yourself for the raw numbers.



It might assuage your ego to assure yourself that it's all prestige whoring and bias. Psai is just a do downer for no reason! But guess what? I'm not the one that has to match in 3 years, it's you. So when someone with more experience offers guidance, the smart thing to do is to shut up and pay attention.
Its primitive human defese mechanisms at work. We all do it to a certain extent. Its sometimes not worth it to fight it.

It is incredibly clear that going DO can potentially hurt you. It will hurt you if you are going into plastic surgery. It will also definitely hurt you if you are going into family medicine but to a smaller extent. These are not opinions. These are facts.

DOs, DO med students, and preDOs will absolutely argue the above point because by accepting the truth, it makes them feel bad about all the relative hard work they have put towards being a doctor. Who wouldnt feel like crap if you work hard, and know that you will continue to work hard, only to potentially not even have a chance at that spot that you want because of your degree? It would be horrible.

But to these people I would say just cuz you put your head in the sand, or chose to only listen to people that agree with you, does not make the problem go away. Instead, accept it, and try to set yourself up in the best way possible to make this problem as small as you can in YOUR life. Set yourself up so colleagues/program directors/fellowship directors could care less about your degrer and make yourself irreplacable. Wow them with your applications and away rotations. Now obviously only one or two people can do this from each class, but you can be that one or two people.

And to the OP, why deal with all that? Go MD so you dont have to be on the defense and always prove yourself.

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Do NOT get me started!!!!

"More DOs good!"

That's their mindset. It doesn't go anything beyond that. It's an attitude that drives my DO faculty colleagues blue-faced with anger.

I vaguely remember a post by a DO student that a Dean at a DO school asked "why would you want to do an ACGME residency?" The AOA is at that level of ignorance.

Haven't a clue as to the second, but it would be stupid for them to. They wont have any knowledge of the OPP content, and that's up to 10% of the exam!

I think the only requirements bandied about are that some AOA residencies will have "osteopathic distinction" or some similar nomenclature. For these, MD students will have to take some kind of rudimentary OMM coursework.



what. then why are AOA/COCA so lax in opening up so many new DO schools?

also a related question to you and @AlteredScale . Do US MD students need to take COMLEX to apply to AOA residencies?
 
AOA residencies will have "osteopathic distinction" or some similar nomenclature. For these, MD students will have to take some kind of rudimentary OMM coursework.

This. Plus the PDs at those residencies are not gonna just bend over and let MDs take over--it doesn't make sense. Interesting to note though is that I think MD schools might begin to try to address the "osteopathic distinction" post-merger with exposure to osteopathic principles. On the interview trail I found a few MD schools had OMM clubs. ( source: https://tcmc.edu/students/student-clubs-organizations/manipulative-medicine-club/ ) all the more reason that makes me think the AOA/ACGME merger is just the first of many mergers we will see.
 
I have a scholarship to a DO school that would make tuition about 18,000/yr, and so far I have been accepted to one MD program that is OOS and my tuition would be about 60,000/yr. Financial packages have yet to be sent out for the MD school. Let's assume come june these are my only two options, and I don't receive any significant scholarship to the MD program. What should I do?

I have zero idea what I want to practice specifically.
Always pick MD over DO...Always. Careers have a long shelf life, and an MD will provide many more career alternatives going forward.
 
That sound you hear off in the distance was my jaw hitting the floor. Just like this:


:wow:

Shades of "the mouse that roared."


This. Plus the PDs at those residencies are not gonna just bend over and let MDs take over--it doesn't make sense. Interesting to note though is that I think MD schools might begin to try to address the "osteopathic distinction" post-merger with exposure to osteopathic principles. On the interview trail I found a few MD schools had OMM clubs. ( source: https://tcmc.edu/students/student-clubs-organizations/manipulative-medicine-club/ ) all the more reason that makes me think the AOA/ACGME merger is just the first of many mergers we will see.
 
Breaking news: there are current and former AOA ent, derm, plastic positions too
 
You are totally missing the point

Im not. You all love to over emphasize the minority of ultra elite programs that DOs are at an disadvantage towards applying. These types of programs are difficult for most MD students as well.

The average mcat difference between MD and DO is roughly 2 MCAT points and .11 gpa point.

Outside of the top tier MD schools there isn't really a difference in quality of students, clearly.

not denying bias or relative difficulty, just saying it is overstated and mis represented


for example, to misguide premeds people say DO placement is 80% when that only refers to ACGME, in reality DO placement is over 99% when incuding Aoa

it is also often falsely assumed everyone wants to do specialty medicine and that primary care is always a useless backup. Some dont want to do a specialty and DO schools tend to attract students that enjoy rural medicine, primary care, etc
 
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You'll notice most everyone in this thread saying "DO is no big deal" or "you won't have much of a disadvantage as a DO" are preclinical med students or recently accepted undergrads. Everyone that has been through the match process will tell you that DO puts you at a big disadvantage, fair or not. I saw precisely ONE DO on the derm interview trail, and that was only at the program he did a research year at, and he didn't match.

You basically have ZERO chance at ACGME ENT, plastics, derm, neurosurgery, ortho, rad onc, and urology. Not "oh you'll be at a disadvantage," I mean 0% chance of matching. You'll also have little/no chance at top tier/university IM programs and good university gen surg programs.

So yes, if you're fine with "topping out" at a middle of the road IM program, or a community gen surg program, then go DO. Just seems silly to hamstring yourself so early. Let your step 1 score do that later.
 
Im not. You all love to over emphasize the minority of ultra elite programs that DOs are at an disadvantage towards applying. These types of programs are difficult for most MD students as well.

The average mcat difference between MD and DO is roughly 2 MCAT points and .11 gpa point.

Outside of the top tier MD schools there isn't really a difference in quality of students, clearly.

not denying bias or relative difficulty, just saying it is overstated and mis represented


for example, to misguide premeds people say DO placement is 80% when that only refers to ACGME, in reality DO placement is over 99% when incuding Aoa

it is also often falsely assumed everyone wants to do specialty medicine and that primary care is always a useless backup. Some dont want to do a specialty and DO schools tend to attract students that enjoy rural medicine, primary care, etc

You haven't even had your first medical school class yet and you're trying to argue with me about matching? lol.

Not sure why you're talking about do placement rates when I didn't say anything about that yet.

a) there is a huge difference in quality in students, including from whatever the low tier md schools are vs whatever you think are high tier do schools. Not even close.

b) no one is making a major distinction in specialties. it is harder for a do to match in any field period. what is being said is that you are basically shut out of competitive fields in the acgme match. you will also basically be shut out of top tier programs in most fields. what we are saying is why limit yourself from the get go if you don't have to?

DO vs MD? There's absolutely no advantage in going DO. There are multiple advantages in going MD and this will increase with the combined match. Almost no one who goes DO would do so if they had the choice. They are there because they couldn't match MD. This is well known to everyone so I'm not sure why pre-do students try to argue otherwise as if we would be fooled.
 
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That's a fair opinion. At the same time though, if you're historically a struggling student or someone who's had trouble with standardised exams, etc - these things are probably not going to change drastically in medical school. No, undergrad & MCAT performance aren't totally correlated with med school performance and there are people who haul ass and turn things around, but people who were never at the top of the class aren't likely to suddenly become AOA rockstars matching in ENT and Plastics.

If you're considering going into hundreds of thousands of dollars of high-interest, non-dischargeable extra debt on the greater, but still relatively slim chance that you'll have a shot at something ultra competitive that DOs match poorly into then you're being unrealistic and somewhat immature. When you're playing with your future and hundreds of thousands of dollars of someone else's money, you have to consider what the most likely outcome and plan for the worst while hoping for the best.

People focus on the highly competitive fields because they are the easiest place to see a contrast, but it is evident across virtually all specialities. Go poke around the current resident rosters of some upper and mid-tier programs in large fields like internal medicine and pediatrics, you will find DO's to be underrepresented.

I am on record as being highly debt averse, but the two training paths are not equivalent. I have used the analogy of medical education and training being like swimming from a starting point in the open ocean to a distant island; the allopathic students have floating cushions, the osteopathic ones have 10 pound weights. Neither guarantees success or failure, but they definitely change the nature of the journey.

Considering that a graduate can look forward to being in practice for 30-35 years or more, I personally find the broader opportunities for allopathic students, both in terms of residency and subsequent fellowships, to be worth the extra investment.

Besides, it's barely November.
 
Under -represented, or non-existent?

Even more troubling: how does one determine which are upper and mid-tier programs"?


People focus on the highly competitive fields because they are the easiest place to see a contrast, but it is evident across virtually all specialities. Go poke around the current resident rosters of some upper and mid-tier programs in large fields like internal medicine and pediatrics, you will find DO's to be underrepresented.

I am on record as being highly debt averse, but the two training paths are not equivalent. I have used the analogy of medical education and training being like swimming from a starting point in the open ocean to a distant island; the allopathic students have floating cushions, the osteopathic ones have 10 pound weights. Neither guarantees success or failure, but they definitely change the nature of the journey.

Considering that a graduate can look forward to being in practice for 30-35 years or more, I personally find the broader opportunities for allopathic students, both in terms of residency and subsequent fellowships, to be worth the extra investment.

Besides, it's barely November.
 
OP, while everyone's offered their opinions on the MD school and DO school, it might help if you just tell us which two schools your specifically debating. This can let us offer more opinions.

BTW, go for the MD. Play it safe. If you end up aiming for a "low tier" residency that a DO could have matched into, yes you'll have more debt (which sucks), but you'll be making attending salary eventually and probably not give a **** at that point.
 
OP, while everyone's offered their opinions on the MD school and DO school, it might help if you just tell us which two schools your specifically debating. This can let us offer more opinions.

BTW, go for the MD. Play it safe. If you end up aiming for a "low tier" residency that a DO could have matched into, yes you'll have more debt (which sucks), but you'll be making attending salary eventually and probably not give a **** at that point.

TCOM and WVU. I mean, ideally I get accepted into my state MD school and can just go there. I interviewed there, but they don't do rolling admissions, so I won't know anything from them til around March.

I have too much time on my hands currently and not much to think about except the what if's, hence this thread.
 
TCOM and WVU. I mean, ideally I get accepted into my state MD school and can just go there. I interviewed there, but they don't do rolling admissions, so I won't know anything from them til around March.

I have too much time on my hands currently and not much to think about except the what if's, hence this thread.
Interesting, thanks for sharing the schools.

While I know money is a big deal, consider other things. How are the locations of the two schools for you? Did you like both on interview day? I know match lists are quite cryptic, but did you at least investigate them for each school? Quality of life is huge also. A friend of mine (she's born/raised/lived in NYC her whole life) is going to a mid-west school that's kinda like, a barren waste land compared to NYC. She's miserable there, so there's lots of other factors outside of money to consider, but I totally see where you're coming from with respect to the financial aspect of it. Look at those other factors and maybe that might help with the decision making?
 
You haven't even had your first medical school class yet and you're trying to argue with me about matching? lol.

Not sure why you're talking about do placement rates when I didn't say anything about that yet.

a) there is a huge difference in quality in students, including from whatever the low tier md schools are vs whatever you think are high tier do schools. Not even close.

b) no one is making a major distinction in specialties. it is harder for a do to match in any field period. what is being said is that you are basically shut out of competitive fields in the acgme match. you will also basically be shut out of top tier programs in most fields. what we are saying is why limit yourself from the get go if you don't have to?

DO vs MD? There's absolutely no advantage in going DO. There are multiple advantages in going MD and this will increase with the combined match. Almost no one who goes DO would do so if they had the choice. They are there because they couldn't match MD. This is well known to everyone so I'm not sure why pre-do students try to argue otherwise as if we would be fooled.

I'm in my first year. So .11 gpa and 2 mcat point difference = huge difference? Sure.
 
This. Plus the PDs at those residencies are not gonna just bend over and let MDs take over--it doesn't make sense. Interesting to note though is that I think MD schools might begin to try to address the "osteopathic distinction" post-merger with exposure to osteopathic principles. On the interview trail I found a few MD schools had OMM clubs. ( source: https://tcmc.edu/students/student-clubs-organizations/manipulative-medicine-club/ ) all the more reason that makes me think the AOA/ACGME merger is just the first of many mergers we will see.

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Research opportunities will be better at TCOM.


TCOM and WVU. I mean, ideally I get accepted into my state MD school and can just go there. I interviewed there, but they don't do rolling admissions, so I won't know anything from them til around March.

I have too much time on my hands currently and not much to think about except the what if's, hence this thread.
 
As a current DO student it's simple really.

If you WANT to do IM, FM, EM, Psych, Peds, and any non-surgical field and you DO NOT CARE about "prestigious" residency names like HAHVUHD or YALE ... you won't go wrong going the DO path no matter what some of these nerds tell you. It will be a LITTLE more tough than MD, but you won't have to worry about 6 figures being owed to the bank.

You wanna do any of these... you will be great... and you are saving $200-300K.

That's A LOT of ****ing dough. You'll be balling out of residency.

HOWEVER... if you want to do something surgical or something uber competitive like radiology (is that even competitive anymore?) ... well... the outlook won't be too great for us DO folks with the merger (or so we've been told by the folks at our school).

BUT... this is certainly a toughie.

If I had money for either... I would definitely go for MD first no matter what. Don't have to put up with OPP and COMLEX board exams (which still ISN'T THAT BAD...)

BUT that is not the case at all...

No loan or debt burden will do wonders for your life 4 years down the road.

I have a buddy who was in the same situation.. he comes from a family with $$$. Went the DO path. Is looking to do primary care anyway and won't have to work like a madman and pay off his loans in like 30 years.

You are technically ahead of the rat race at that point... lol I cannot emphasize enough how much money you are saving. You can literally start stacking and saving as soon as you make it to residency.

Nobody can decide for you man.

It is all up to how hard you work. Nobody is taking DO seats. It's honestly about time the merger happens. The ones who barely skate by will not make it. Makes you want to go even harder and work your ass off.

Even then... I think ALL DO programs have had 100% placement in residencies dude.

It's not like you will NOT get a residency... theres a huge shortage of docs everywhere. We are US folks.. we get first dibs no matter what.

The only losers really are the IMGs and Caribbean peeps. They will be getting the IM or FM spots in butt-phucc middle of nowhere... like they have been getting for year.. and their schooling is just as if not MORE expensive than a US DO or MD program.

I digress though.....

TLDR:

- If you DON'T KNOW what you want to do and can stomach the 200-300k debt... go MD.

- if you DO KNOW you want to do IM, FM, EM, PEDS, GAS, anything nonsurgical... AND save 200-300K AND be 30 years ahead of all of your fellow colleagues in terms of workload, stress, and actual FREEDOM to practice how (not too sure about "HOW" since everything depends on guidelines anyway) and when you choose (VERY important since you will NOT HAVE to work... but could... and still make over 6 figs easy)...

go DO.
 
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Lastly, this myth that the merger will hurt DOs is nonsense. Our graduate education is more standardized now. DO expansion of residency last 2 years was solid and the former AOA residencies will not magically change their allegiance.
 
Research opportunities will be better at TCOM.

NIH funding is pretty similar. 2015 data:
West Virginia University - $16,376,972 (53 awards)
University of North Texas Health Sciences Center - $13,371,477 (37 awards)

I'm not a big fan of match list analysis but WVU clearly "wins" in that department, as well. I'm not knocking TCOM, as it is certainly one of the best osteopathic schools in the country.
 
Plus, y'all gotta stop giving @Psai so much ****.

He is speaking the truth and if you are one of the ones offended, then it probably applies to you.

Too many sensitive folks in medicine that ge butthurt easily.
 
As a current DO student it's simple really.

If you WANT to do IM, FM, EM, Psych, Peds, and any non-surgical field and you DO NOT CARE about "prestigious" residency names like HAHVUHD or YALE ... you won't go wrong going the DO path no matter what some of these nerds tell you. It will be a LITTLE more tough than MD, but you won't have to worry about 6 figures being owed to the bank.

You wanna do any of these... you will be great... and you are saving $200-300K.

That's A LOT of ****ing dough. You'll be balling out of residency.

HOWEVER... if you want to do something surgical or something uber competitive like radiology (is that even competitive anymore?) ... well... the outlook won't be too great for us DO folks with the merger (or so we've been told by the folks at our school).

BUT... this is certainly a toughie.

If I had money for either... I would definitely go for MD first no matter what. Don't have to put up with OPP and COMLEX board exams (which still ISN'T THAT BAD...)

BUT that is not the case at all...

No loan or debt burden will do wonders for your life 4 years down the road.

I have a buddy who was in the same situation.. he comes from a family with $$$. Went the DO path. Is looking to do primary care anyway and won't have to work like a madman and pay off his loans in like 30 years.

You are technically ahead of the rat race at that point... lol I cannot emphasize enough how much money you are saving. You can literally start stacking and saving as soon as you make it to residency.

Nobody can decide for you man.

It is all up to how hard you work. Nobody is taking DO seats. It's honestly about time the merger happens. The ones who barely skate by will not make it. Makes you want to go even harder and work your ass off.

Even then... I think ALL DO programs have had 100% placement in residencies dude.

It's not like you will NOT get a residency... theres a huge shortage of docs everywhere. We are US folks.. we get first dibs no matter what.

The only losers really are the IMGs and Caribbean peeps. They will be getting the IM or FM spots in butt-phucc middle of nowhere... like they have been getting for year.. and their schooling is just as if not MORE expensive than a US DO or MD program.

I digress though.....

TLDR:

- If you DON'T KNOW what you want to do and can stomach the 200-300k debt... go MD.

- if you DO KNOW you want to do IM, FM, EM, PEDS, GAS, anything nonsurgical... AND save 200-300K AND be 30 years ahead of all of your fellow colleagues in terms of workload, stress, and actual FREEDOM to practice how (not too sure about "HOW" since everything depends on guidelines anyway) and when you choose (VERY important since you will NOT HAVE to work... but could... and still make over 6 figs easy)...

go DO.

Good thing paragraphs aren't covered on the boards.
 
Md. It's a big chunk of change but worth it to not hamstring your career before you know what you actually want to do. Everything is harder as a do, plenty of things are straight up impossible.
 
You can have the same results at both schools.

If you go to the MD school you just have to be maybe slightly above average.

If you go to the DO school you have to be one of the best DO students in the country.

Same results.

Oh, but you also have to take 2 types of board exams. Awesomeness.

Everyone thinks they're going to be the DO student that "shatters the glass ceiling" or whatever. They're the ones saying DO. But it's stupid to think you're going to be the exception that proves the rule instead of just being the rule. That's just magic thinking. It's the same magic thinking that makes DO students believe that all of their residencies will be protected anyway post merger for no reason. Everyone who's either gearing up for or who has been through the match is screaming MD. Listen to them.

I really love the DO school I'll be attending next year. I know some fantastic alums. I even prefer it to my state MD. But it's sadly not worth the headache that will come with trying to match as a DO.


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You can have the same results at both schools.

If you go to the MD school you just have to be maybe slightly above average.

If you go to the DO school you have to be one of the best DO students in the country.

Same results.

Oh, but you also have to take 2 types of board exams. Awesomeness.

Everyone thinks they're going to be the DO student that "shatters the glass ceiling" or whatever. They're the ones saying DO. But it's stupid to think you're going to be the exception that proves the rule instead of just being the rule. That's just magic thinking. It's the same magic thinking that makes DO students believe that all of their residencies will be protected anyway post merger for no reason. Everyone who's either gearing up for or who has been through the match is screaming MD. Listen to them.

I really love the DO school I'll be attending next year. I know some fantastic alums. I even prefer it to my state MD. But it's sadly not worth the headache that will come with trying to match as a DO.


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I second this opinion. There is a likelihood that you may not be an exceptional DO student. An average MD student has better outlook compared to average DO.

If you are dead set on family practice that might be a separate story.
 
I second this opinion. There is a likelihood that you may not be an exceptional DO student. An average MD student has better outlook compared to average DO.

If you are dead set on family practice that might be a separate story.

Yeah, but it would have to be along the lines of your dad owns a family practice and intends to leave it to you when he retires type of situation. I'd definitely get on board then.

Edit: also, I always lol at folks who had every opportunity in the world to do well in undergrad, had expensive MCAT prep courses, didn't even have to work, etc. who think that when they get in they'll all of a sudden start to crush it in med school.


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Yeah, but it would have to be along the lines of your dad owns a family practice and intends to leave it to you when he retires type of situation. I'd definitely get on board then.


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Yup. plus the added hassle of explaining what a DO is to people who do not know in every interaction.
 
Yup. plus the added hassle of explaining what a DO is to people who do not know in every interaction.

That's really an exaggerated and unimportant "downside". 8 years of working with DOs almost every day and it hasn't happened yet. They ain't hiding those initials either.


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That's really an exaggerated and unimportant "downside". 8 years of working with DOs almost every day and it hasn't happened yet. They ain't hiding those initials either.


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I was being facetious. You might live in a DO friendly / common state. Plus they arent likely to talk about it when it does happen. Also how much time is wasted studying OMM. I have have only met one DO in the wild who still uses it. I also saw an MD call a DO colleague "Backcracker" when the DO did not agree with the course of treatment.

Another thing, limited international acceptance- Probably doesnt matter for most people.
And this can be a pro or a con, but only one letter away from D.O. G. which also happens to be GOD backwards.
 
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The average mcat difference between MD and DO is roughly 2 MCAT points and .11 gpa point.

At the ranges we're talking 2 points is like a 10-20 percentile swing, so it's not something to just brush off. Also I recall the difference being much more significant 5-6 years ago.

Let your step 1 score do that later.

Savage
 
The average mcat difference between MD and DO is roughly 2 MCAT points and .11 gpa point.

This 2015 data (published by the AACOM) indicates that the mean old MCAT score for osteopathic matriculants is about 27.1. The mean for allopathic was 31, so the difference is approximately 4 points, not 2.

I would also be curious to hear how grade replacement impacts the difference between calculated GPAs in AMCAS versus AACOMAS.

Any thoughts?
 
Im not. You all love to over emphasize the minority of ultra elite programs that DOs are at an disadvantage towards applying. These types of programs are difficult for most MD students as well.

The average mcat difference between MD and DO is roughly 2 MCAT points and .11 gpa point.

Outside of the top tier MD schools there isn't really a difference in quality of students, clearly.

not denying bias or relative difficulty, just saying it is overstated and mis represented


for example, to misguide premeds people say DO placement is 80% when that only refers to ACGME, in reality DO placement is over 99% when incuding Aoa

it is also often falsely assumed everyone wants to do specialty medicine and that primary care is always a useless backup. Some dont want to do a specialty and DO schools tend to attract students that enjoy rural medicine, primary care, etc


It's not so much the quality of the students that is the problem.

It's the quality of the education. Specifically, the clinical years.

And the difference is often quite big.
 
4th year MD med student here. Currently in the match. I would go DO. If you do well, you will get into the specialty you want. MD or DO. If you don't do well, you won't get in. MD or DO. Money is more important. Being a DO will not hinder you nowadays. Use that money on a house, kids, marriage, etc. Don't throw it away for two letters. Only people who will care are the people you wouldn't want to talk to anyway.
 
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