Cheap DO vs Expensive MD

[sdhere1234]

---

Members don't see this ad.

You'll notice most everyone in this thread saying "DO is no big deal" or "you won't have much of a disadvantage as a DO" are preclinical med students or recently accepted undergrads. Everyone that has been through the match process will tell you that DO puts you at a big disadvantage, fair or not. I saw precisely ONE DO on the derm interview trail, and that was only at the program he did a research year at, and he didn't match.

You basically have ZERO chance at ACGME ENT, plastics, derm, neurosurgery, ortho, rad onc, and urology. Not "oh you'll be at a disadvantage," I mean 0% chance of matching. You'll also have little/no chance at top tier/university IM programs and good university gen surg programs.

So yes, if you're fine with "topping out" at a middle of the road IM program, or a community gen surg program, then go DO. Just seems silly to hamstring yourself so early. Let your step 1 score do that later.

Might be "close" to 0% but not 0%

 

[NotYou20]

Yup. plus the added hassle of explaining what a DO is to people who do not know in every interaction.

Don't discount the lulz that come with going to a do school though. A recent favorite was when a (non physician) faulty helped a standardized patient up after an abdominal exam and explained that it's a "very osteopathic thing to do"

 

[AlteredScale]

This 2015 data (published by the AACOM) indicates that the mean old MCAT score for osteopathic matriculants is about 27.1. The mean for allopathic was 31, so the difference is approximately 4 points, not 2.

I would also be curious to hear how grade replacement impacts the difference between calculated GPAs in AMCAS versus AACOMAS.

Any thoughts?

I would have to say grade replacement impacts the difference strongly. There are a lot of those who had a rough undergrad with GPAs around 2.9-3.25. With grade replacement there can be a lot of boost.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[ConfusedChemist]

4th year MD med student here. Currently in the match. I would go DO. If you do well, you will get into the specialty you want. MD or DO. If you don't do well, you won't get in. MD or DO. Money is more important. Being a DO will not hinder you nowadays. Use that money on a house, kids, marriage, etc. Don't throw it away for two letters. Only people who will care are the people you wouldn't want to talk to anyway.

Except that it will hinder them, and it might stop them from going into something competitive if that's what they end up wanting.

I'm not saying DO's can't do most specialties, but saying it won't have any effect isn't accurate. Like it or not, people-people who might be hiring for jobs, interviewing for residency, etc.-still can have biases. I'm not debating if that's right or wrong, but it exists

 

[ConfusedChemist]

Cheaper school - DO. Your future financially independent self with thank you later.

Unfortunately, you'll get nothing but MD bias from a bunch of pre-med students here; but I'm guessing you already made your decision and just want a bunch of people to agree with you.

And you think that bias only exists in pre-meds? Many MDs have a bias against DOs, like it or not. If OP falls in love with ortho than matching into that will easily make up the financial cost of the MD school

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

And you think that bias only exists in pre-meds? Many MDs have a bias against DOs, like it or not. If OP falls in love with ortho than matching into that will easily make up the financial cost of the MD school

At the hospital I work at one of the ENT attendings flat out told a rotating DO student that even if he did his residency at an ACGME program that his group wouldn't hire a DO. Now I think this is stupid but people do need to understand that there are still a few people who have biases even in private practice. In private practice this is definitely the minority position but it still exists.

On the other hand the urology group just hired a DO and they all say the guy is brilliant and a fantastic surgeon. He did an AOA residency and is right out of fellowship.

 

[y123]

MD

 

[popopopop]

Go for the MD so I can take your spot at TCOM 🙂.

*edit: Hehe, didn't expect this many likes, but I'm completely serious. For someone local like me, this is 100% my top pick at the moment.

 

[njtrimed]

And you think that bias only exists in pre-meds? Many MDs have a bias against DOs, like it or not. If OP falls in love with ortho than matching into that will easily make up the financial cost of the MD school

Having worked in medicine for 15 years, I would say that physicians in general are not really interested in where someone went to medical school, and only care about how they perform. However, there is definitely a bias in terms of obtaining residency positions and I know that my DO friend who scored in the 95th percentile (260+) on Step 1 was not in the same position matching against MD students in the 50th percentile.

I guess it comes down to what you want to do and how important it is for you to have a shot at top residency programs. Personally, I care more about staying where I am geographically and matching into a certain specialty. The group I have worked with for years is a private group of nearly 100 physicians. Many are DOs, and the MDs range from Ivy MD grads who trained at top programs to MDs from state schools or Caribbean schools, as well as immigrants from around the world. I honestly didn't know who had what credentials until I got their LORs, and their credentials mean nothing in terms of how they practice.

TL😀R: your med school matters a little. Your residency matters a little bit more. But none of it matters at all once you're actually practicing. All that matters is how well you do your job.

 

[Goro]

I agree with you on this, but the odds are so low that I don't recommend my students trying for those specialties.

Might be "close" to 0% but not 0%

 

[OrdinaryDO]

As a medical student and witnessing both DOs and MDs outside and inside the clinic setting, I will say DO bias is an actual thing in the real world.

The question isnt "Is there a bias?" It's "Will you let the bias get to you"

Depends where you live and go to medical school. Where I live there are more DOs than MDs in many clinics and hospitals, but not all.

MD easily. There is no such thing as prestige for DO. Most people don't even know that it exists even when their own doctor is a DO.

It's a difference of 160k which will probably end up being a repayment of maybe 300k max. Why go for DO when you can open up higher paying specialties and easily come out ahead within 5 years?

Most people don't know it exists because almost people don't care, you're their PHYSICIAN, not heir DO or MD.

I chose my state DO school over the MD school easily because of the atmosphere and location along with my strong bias for the school all together. Luckily for me, we have a large teaching hospital and another very large hospital strictly for DO residents and rotation spots. One of the reasons I feel
So comfortable with my decision is because I have ABSOLUTELY no interests in ENT, Ortho, special Surgery, Plastics, etc. that so many people like to rant and rave about. Who in their right mind would love derm!? (I know, they probably make more per hour than any other physician, but it's so boring).

Anyway, I'm not arguing since I do believe MD should be taken over DO most of the time, but just not ALL time time. It's very person specific.




Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Psai]

Depends where you live and go to medical school. Where I live there are more DOs than MDs in many clinics and hospitals, but not all.



Most people don't know it exists because almost people don't care, you're their PHYSICIAN, not heir DO or MD.

I chose my state DO school over the MD school easily because of the atmosphere and location along with my strong bias for the school all together. Luckily for me, we have a large teaching hospital and another very large hospital strictly for DO residents and rotation spots. One of the reasons I feel
So comfortable with my decision is because I have ABSOLUTELY no interests in ENT, Ortho, special Surgery, Plastics, etc. that so many people like to rant and rave about. Who in their right mind would love derm!? (I know, they probably make more per hour than any other physician, but it's so boring).

Anyway, I'm not arguing since I do believe MD should be taken over DO most of the time, but just not ALL time time. It's very person specific.




Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

You had an acceptance to an md school?

Btw it's pretty silly to rag on other specialties when it's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. Those guys are also "PHYSICIANS" who worked way harder than you ever did and earned their spots.

 

[popopopop]

You had an acceptance to an md school?

Btw it's pretty silly to rag on other specialties when it's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. Those guys are also "PHYSICIANS" who worked way harder than you ever did and earned their spots.

He called a specialty boring, hardly inflammatory. This is really ironic especially with your reputation here psai.

 

[VeitVat]

SDN is an osteopathic centric website and forum run by osteopaths. When reading through these forums understand you'll find an amount of osteopathic apologism disproportionate to how the real world operates.

If you have what it takes to enter medical school, don't spend the rest of your lifetime kicking yourself for having gone osteopathic school when you had a choice.

 

[libertyyne]

SDN is an osteopathic centric website and forum run by osteopaths. When reading through these forums understand you'll find an amount of osteopathic apologism disproportionate to how the real world operates.

If you have what it takes to enter medical school, don't spend the rest of your lifetime kicking yourself for having gone osteopathic school when you had a choice.

?

 

[Psai]

He called a specialty boring, hardly inflammatory. This is really ironic especially with your reputation here psai.

Who are you?

 

[Lawpy]

SDN is an osteopathic centric website and forum run by osteopaths. When reading through these forums understand you'll find an amount of osteopathic apologism disproportionate to how the real world operates.

If you have what it takes to enter medical school, don't spend the rest of your lifetime kicking yourself for having gone osteopathic school when you had a choice.

?

He's talking about SDN's early days:

http://www.studentdoctor.net/about-sdn/our-history/

Osteopathic.com

Osteopathic.com was created in 1995 by Lee Burnett during medical school. It was originally known as “The Osteopathic Source” and was an offshoot of the Osteopathic medical student newspaper The Osteopathic Pulse. The Osteopathic Source was the first Osteopathic medical student website and the first osteopathic website on the Internet.

The SDN forums were originally hosted as the Osteopathic.com student forums.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

You had an acceptance to an md school?

Btw it's pretty silly to rag on other specialties when it's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. Those guys are also "PHYSICIANS" who worked way harder than you ever did and earned their spots.

Wow, I have never read something so naive on SDN until now.. that response had absolutely NOTHING to do with specialty and everything to do with an MD and a DO being Physicians. I think it is absolutely hilarious that you can determine how hard someone has worked by two letters at the end of their name. You're exactly the kind of person I do not want as my physician or class mate. There are a ton of DOs in reputable ACGME residencies. I would venture to say that DOs would have to work MUCH harder than their MD counterparts to get to the same place, wouldn't you? You can't argue that, because that Is the whole reason everyone encourages someone to go MD over DO. I'm kind of embarrassed to be a part of the same community as you.

 

[Psai]

There was 1 simple question and you managed to type 100 words without answering it

 

[libertyyne]

Wow, I have never read something so naive on SDN until now.. that response had absolutely NOTHING to do with specialty and everything to do with an MD and a DO being Physicians. I think it is absolutely hilarious that you can determine how hard someone has worked by two letters at the end of their name. You're exactly the kind of person I do not want as my physician or class mate. There are a ton of DOs in reputable ACGME residencies. I would venture to say that DOs would have to work MUCH harder than their MD counterparts to get to the same place, wouldn't you? You can't argue that, because that Is the whole reason everyone encourages someone to go MD over DO. I'm kind of embarrassed to be a part of the same community as you.

It is a valid question based on the implication that you had a choice from the comment below.

I chose my state DO school over the MD school easily because of the atmosphere and location along with my strong bias for the school all together.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[OrdinaryDO]

It is a valid question based on the implication that you had a choice from the comment below.

Once again, my reply to Psai was not addressed to his question, but rather to everything else he said below it. I think my first post clearly sheds light on his question and therefore I don't feel the need to answer it. I have no respect for Psai and this is the first time I have ever encountered him/her on these forums. Sad contributor I will say that.

 

[libertyyne]

Once again, my reply to Psai was not addressed to his question, but rather to everything else he said below it. I think my first post clearly sheds light on his question and therefore I don't feel the need to answer it. I have no respect for Psai and this is the first time I have ever encountered him/her on these forums. Sad contributor I will say that.

I mean if you did have an acceptance to both a DO and MD school, your voice gains more authority to answer this question. Your post implies it, but I am honestly confused if you did or did not gain an MD acceptance. Because one could make the same implication if they only applied to DO schools opting not to even apply to MD schools.

 

[Psai]

Once again, my reply to Psai was not addressed to his question, but rather to everything else he said below it. I think my first post clearly sheds light on his question and therefore I don't feel the need to answer it. I have no respect for Psai and this is the first time I have ever encountered him/her on these forums. Sad contributor I will say that.

I knew this already but it seems the answer is no. So you didn't choose DO over MD, as you didn't have a choice at all. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

[Lawpy]

Wow, I have never read something so naive on SDN until now.. that response had absolutely NOTHING to do with specialty and everything to do with an MD and a DO being Physicians. I think it is absolutely hilarious that you can determine how hard someone has worked by two letters at the end of their name. You're exactly the kind of person I do not want as my physician or class mate. There are a ton of DOs in reputable ACGME residencies. I would venture to say that DOs would have to work MUCH harder than their MD counterparts to get to the same place, wouldn't you? You can't argue that, because that Is the whole reason everyone encourages someone to go MD over DO. I'm kind of embarrassed to be a part of the same community as you.

Once again, my reply to Psai was not addressed to his question, but rather to everything else he said below it. I think my first post clearly sheds light on his question and therefore I don't feel the need to answer it. I have no respect for Psai and this is the first time I have ever encountered him/her on these forums. Sad contributor I will say that.

Rather than insulting people on the forums (which is uncalled for), could you answer the question posed?

You had an acceptance to an md school?

 

[libertyyne]

I knew this already but it seems the answer is no. So you didn't choose DO over MD, as you didn't have a choice at all. Thanks for clearing that up.

I too chose SGU over Stanford!

 

[Ho0v-man]

I mean if you did have an acceptance to both a DO and MD school, your voice gains more authority to answer this question. Your post implies it, but I am honestly confused if you did or did not gain an MD acceptance. Because one could make the same implication if they only applied to DO schools opting not to even apply to MD schools.

He did not. If you look through his post history, he was going to be part of the inaugural class of a new DO school before getting off of the wait list at his state DO school at the last second. Because of its state funding, it's a very good DO school to be fair.

Could someone please close this thread? The question has been sufficiently answered and this thread has now devolved into what we all knew it would become.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Rather than insulting people on the forums (which is uncalled for), could you answer the question posed?

I am insulting him? Did you not read the posts leading up to this point? I blocked him, by the way. When someone voices an opinion it is okay to disagree with them, but you should never insult them for their decision to express their opinion.

The question has been answered over and over again and even heavily implied by my post prior to this. The poster above was close, I was accepted to 5 schools total and chose my state school in the town I live in.

 

[Pusheen]

I am insulting him? Did you not read the posts leading up to this point? I blocked him, by the way. When someone voices an opinion it is okay to disagree with them, but you should never insult them for their decision to express their opinion.

The question has been answered over and over again and even heavily implied by my post prior to this. The poster above was close, I was accepted to 5 schools total and chose my state school in the town I live in.

Wait, but were you accepted to md or not? The suspense is killing me

 

[Psai]

I am insulting him? Did you not read the posts leading up to this point? I blocked him, by the way. When someone voices an opinion it is okay to disagree with them, but you should never insult them for their decision to express their opinion.

The question has been answered over and over again and even heavily implied by my post prior to this. The poster above was close, I was accepted to 5 schools total and chose my state school in the town I live in.

The question has been answered over and over again to the point where no one knows the answer because you never posted it. It's okay though, I understand why you would dodge the question. And that's why MD > DO.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Wait, but were you accepted to md or not? The suspense is killing me

Lol the suspense is killing me as well. I'm withdrawing myself from this conversation. You all take it easy!

 

[libertyyne]

I disagree is psai and his methods most of the time. However, I do think the bolded portion has a tenuous relationship with reality if you were never accepted to your state MD school.

I chose my state DO school over the MD school easily because of the atmosphere and location along with my strong bias for the school all together. Luckily for me, we have a large teaching hospital and another very large hospital strictly for DO residents and rotation spots. One of the reasons I feel
So comfortable with my decision is because I have ABSOLUTELY no interests in ENT, Ortho, special Surgery, Plastics, etc. that so many people like to rant and rave about. Who in their right mind would love derm!? (I know, they probably make more per hour than any other physician, but it's so boring).

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[libertyyne]

Wait, but were you accepted to md or not? The suspense is killing me

Never before have i wanted to peruse through 1500+ messages to answer a simple binary question.

 

[Slack3r]

Might be "close" to 0% but not quite.

0.2%, and I'd still bet that guy was related to someone either important or on faculty.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

0.2%, and I'd still bet that guy was related to someone either important or on faculty.

I wouldn't, there are a handful of DOs who match ACGME derm every year. Highly unlikely that they all are related to big wigs.

Just to be clear, I agree 100% that Derm is an unrealistic goal to have going into DO school.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Lol the suspense is killing me as well. I'm withdrawing myself from this conversation. You all take it easy!

You really need to answer the question. Doing this is honestly kind of cowardly, to make a statement like you did and then not back it up. If you are going to talk the talk...

 

[Lawpy]

I am insulting him? Did you not read the posts leading up to this point? I blocked him, by the way. When someone voices an opinion it is okay to disagree with them, but you should never insult them for their decision to express their opinion.

The question has been answered over and over again and even heavily implied by my post prior to this. The poster above was close, I was accepted to 5 schools total and chose my state school in the town I live in.

Lol the suspense is killing me as well. I'm withdrawing myself from this conversation. You all take it easy!

Dude, why are you writing so many sentences for just a simple yes/no question?

Just answer the question directly. Did you have an acceptance to an MD school?

 

[Pusheen]

Dude, why are you writing so many sentences for just a simple yes/no question?

Just answer the question directly. Did you have an acceptance to an MD school?

Obv not at this point...

 

[Lawpy]

Obv not at this point...

wat

Most people don't know it exists because almost people don't care, you're their PHYSICIAN, not heir DO or MD.

I chose my state DO school over the MD school easily because of the atmosphere and location along with my strong bias for the school all together. Luckily for me, we have a large teaching hospital and another very large hospital strictly for DO residents and rotation spots. One of the reasons I feel
So comfortable with my decision is because I have ABSOLUTELY no interests in ENT, Ortho, special Surgery, Plastics, etc. that so many people like to rant and rave about. Who in their right mind would love derm!? (I know, they probably make more per hour than any other physician, but it's so boring).

Anyway, I'm not arguing since I do believe MD should be taken over DO most of the time, but just not ALL time time. It's very person specific.




Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

You had an acceptance to an md school?

Btw it's pretty silly to rag on other specialties when it's clear that you have no idea what you're talking about. Those guys are also "PHYSICIANS" who worked way harder than you ever did and earned their spots.

Wow, I have never read something so naive on SDN until now.. that response had absolutely NOTHING to do with specialty and everything to do with an MD and a DO being Physicians. I think it is absolutely hilarious that you can determine how hard someone has worked by two letters at the end of their name. You're exactly the kind of person I do not want as my physician or class mate. There are a ton of DOs in reputable ACGME residencies. I would venture to say that DOs would have to work MUCH harder than their MD counterparts to get to the same place, wouldn't you? You can't argue that, because that Is the whole reason everyone encourages someone to go MD over DO. I'm kind of embarrassed to be a part of the same community as you.

this sounds like he had an MD but turned it down for DO, but...

He did not. If you look through his post history, he was going to be part of the inaugural class of a new DO school before getting off of the wait list at his state DO school at the last second. Because of its state funding, it's a very good DO school to be fair.

Could someone please close this thread? The question has been sufficiently answered and this thread has now devolved into what we all knew it would become.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

this didn't happen? And Psai somehow got slammed for asking a simple question relevant to the topic at hand?

 

[Pusheen]

wat

Obviously not, from all the roundabout responses

 

[libertyyne]

 

[Lawpy]

Obviously not, from all the roundabout responses

so ordinaryDO just got angered over a simple question (that's really just clarifying what he said) and ragequit the thread. okay then.

 

[libertyyne]

so ordinaryDO just got angered over a simple question (that's really just clarifying what he said) and ragequit the thread. okay then.

What is weird is Ordinary DO said the exact same thing" I chose my DO school over MD school" in another thread. It is clear that he/she/it did not receive an offer from state MD school.

Back to the scheduled programming now. OP go MD, there are very few people who would choose DO.

 

[Pusheen]

What is weird is Ordinary DO said the exact same thing" I chose my DO school over MD school" in another thread. It is clear that he/she/it did not receive an offer from state MD school.

Back to the scheduled programming now. OP go MD, there are very few people who would choose DO.

Or simply didn't apply to the MD school, thus turning them down before they could turn him down?

 

[libertyyne]

Or simply didn't apply to the MD school, thus turning them down before they could turn him down?

I also turned down, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, UCSF and Harvard by that logic. I opted to go state because i liked the school more.

 

[Pusheen]

I also turned down, Johns Hopkins, Stanford, UCSF and Harvard by that logic. I opted to go state because i liked the school more.

Yup, I'm not agreeing with it, just giving a rationale for the original post

 

[libertyyne]

Yup, I'm not agreeing with it, just giving a rationale for the original post

Its phrased intentionally to give the false impression that the person also had an MD acceptance.

 

[Pusheen]

Its phrased intentionally to give the false impression that the person also had an MD acceptance.

Indeed

 

[OchemOficionado]

Never before have i wanted to peruse through 1500+ messages to answer a simple binary question.

I don't have the patience for more than 3 mins of perusing, but I see they had a 3.28 and 502 MCAT and only shadowed DOs. I'll bet they didn't apply MD.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Highly unlikely that they all are related to big wigs

There's a surprisingly large amount of nepotism in medicine

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

There's a surprisingly large amount of nepotism in medicine

Oh absolutely, I was just saying I would be surprised if every DO derm match had nepotism involved simply because a few do it every year. I definitely have seen nepostism first hand at the hospital I work at.