Cheap DO vs Expensive MD

[holdthemayo]

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So @OrdinaryDO gets a 123 CARS, gets into OSU (a great DO school) anyway, then lies about getting in MD because DO is better?

This thread took a weird turn.

 

[libertyyne]

.

 

[Lawpy]

So putting the OrdinaryDO controversy on the side, I think we can all agree on the following:

If you are accepted to US MD and US DO, pick US MD no matter what. US MD helps in the following ways:

1. US MD doesn't inherently close doors to any specialty

2. US MD generally has better clinical opportunities due to much more stringent ACGME/LCME regulations (they aren't afraid to put a US MD school on probation for violating the standards)

3. US MD students only deal with one exam (the USMLE), as opposed to US DO students who have to deal with an additional burden of COMLEX exams

4. US MD usually has better research and networking opportunities

And of course, common sense says always pick a US medical school over any offshore/abroad schools if you want to practice medicine in the US.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

US MD no matter what

I wouldn't go that far, especially with some questionable new MD schools

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So putting the OrdinaryDO controversy on the side, I think we can all agree on the following:

If you are accepted to US MD and US DO, pick US MD no matter what. US MD helps in the following ways:

1. US MD doesn't inherently close doors to any specialty

2. US MD generally has better clinical opportunities due to much more stringent ACGME/LCME regulations (they aren't afraid to put a US MD school on probation for violating the standards)

3. US MD students only deal with one exam (the USMLE), as opposed to US DO students who have to deal with an additional burden of COMLEX exams

4. US MD usually has better research and networking opportunities

And of course, common sense says always pick a US medical school over any offshore/abroad schools if you want to practice medicine in the US.

I agree with this. There will always be the 1% who the general rules don't apply to but most people don't fit into that category.

 

[Lawpy]

I wouldn't go that far, especially with some questionable new MD schools

So this brings us to another related problem, something which the adcoms/faculty here can better address (@LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @Med Ed )

if given a choice between a for-profit US MD school (er... CNU) and a good US DO school, what's an ideal choice? If we go above what I had stated, CNU would win... but this actually may not be the wisest decision.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

So this brings us to another related problem, something which the adcoms/faculty here can better address (@LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @Med Ed )

if given a choice between a for-profit US MD school (er... CNU) and a good US DO school, what's an ideal choice? If we go above what I had stated, CNU would win... but this actually may not be the wisest decision.

(Obviously not an adcom or anyone of significance but I'll share my opinion)

My opinion is that, unfortunately, the match prospects will still be better for a CNU grad than someone from the top DO schools. I am obviously talking about comparing two average students with similar residency CVs.

 

[gyngyn]

So this brings us to another related problem, something which the adcoms/faculty here can better address (@LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @Med Ed )

if given a choice between a for-profit US MD school (er... CNU) and a good US DO school, what's an ideal choice? If we go above what I had stated, CNU would win... but this actually may not be the wisest decision.

CN"U" is the only US MD school I cannot recommend.

 

[Lawpy]

(Obviously not an adcom or anyone of significance but I'll share my opinion)

My opinion is that, unfortunately, the match prospects will still be better for a CNU grad than someone from the top DO schools. I am obviously talking about comparing two average students with similar residency CVs.

That's fine lol, just needed some expert verification.

I actually disagree, and would put that as an exception. I really don't think CNU grad would have an advantage over DO grads (say from KCUMB, MSUCOM, CCOM, Touros etc.). I really think CNU and for-profit schools inherently are at a disadvantage academically as their reputation/"trust" are put into question. It's difficult to imagine in these cases that someone at a for-profit MD school would have an advantage over US DO students. It's basically analogous to Caribbean schools on the mainland that somehow got ACGME/LCME accreditation.

CN"U" is the only US MD school I cannot recommend.

Does this apply for any for-profit US MD school (I know CNU is the only one but in the event more pops out in the future)?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

So this brings us to another related problem, something which the adcoms/faculty here can better address

if given a choice between a for-profit US MD school (er... CNU) and a good US DO school, what's an ideal choice? If we go above what I had stated, CNU would win... but this actually may not be the wisest decision.

In my opinion, which is in fairness poorly formed (CNU might have incredible rotations for all I know, despite the odds), I would rather go to, say, PCOM than a CNU. This would be the case even had CNU not hung a millstone of private loans on their students, but this only emboldens my opinion.

But to be more general, I would probably opt to go to a good DO school over mid-tier MD school if the difference in loans was in the order of 400-500k.

 

[gyngyn]

That's fine lol, just needed some expert verification.

I actually disagree, and would put that as an exception. I really don't think CNU grad would have an advantage over DO grads (say from KCUMB, MSUCOM etc.). I really think CNU and for-profit schools inherently are at a disadvantage academically as their reputation/"trust" are put into question. It's difficult to imagine in these cases that someone at a for-profit MD school would have an advantage over US DO students. It's basically analogous to Caribbean schools on the mainland that somehow got ACGME/LCME accreditation.



Does this apply for any for-profit US MD school (I know CNU is the only one but in the event more pops out in the future)?

.
This school has not acted in their students' best interest. That is why I do not recommend them.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

CN"U" is the only US MD school I cannot recommend.

How was this abomination allowed to be birthed?

 

[Ho0v-man]

So putting the OrdinaryDO controversy on the side, I think we can all agree on the following:

If you are accepted to US MD and US DO, pick US MD no matter what. US MD helps in the following ways:

1. US MD doesn't inherently close doors to any specialty

2. US MD generally has better clinical opportunities due to much more stringent ACGME/LCME regulations (they aren't afraid to put a US MD school on probation for violating the standards)

3. US MD students only deal with one exam (the USMLE), as opposed to US DO students who have to deal with an additional burden of COMLEX exams

4. US MD usually has better research and networking opportunities

And of course, common sense says always pick a US medical school over any offshore/abroad schools if you want to practice medicine in the US.

Pretty much sums it up. To be fair, if I were in ordinary DO's shoes and lived in the exact same town as an established state funded DO school I probably wouldn't move just to be an MD. But there's literally like 5 osteopathic schools that even fall into that category and even then it is objectively not the wisest decision.




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[gyngyn]

How was this abomination allowed to be birthed?

Weak administrative oversight by the LCME (and fear of their lawyers).

 

[OrdinaryDO]

So @OrdinaryDO gets a 123 CARS, gets into OSU (a great DO school) anyway, then lies about getting in MD because DO is better?

This thread took a weird turn.

People like you, who make assumptions like this, are exactly why I avoid threads like these. I tried to contribute and obviously my opinion is not valued and clearly unwanted. I made a clear, easily interpret-able implicit statement that should have been as easy as ABC to follow. You call me a liar and everyone who endorsed your post by liking it also may as well have called me a liar. There are program in my home state which you are very unfamiliar with. I can say that with certainty, because if you understood the admissions program for my state MD school and certain criteria for scholar students, then you would have put two and two together. No, I am not lying, I am merely withdrawing myself from this thread simply because I feel like this has been turned into a hostile thread aimed at anyone who doesn't agree with the majority.

I will say it again. I had a chance to accept and attend an MD school, but due to the location and home-like feeling of my DO school, I decided the DO school was a much better choice considering the teaching hospital and high-yield clinical rotation sites. It boils down to this..can my state DO school offer everything I need to succeed and get into the area of medicine for which I am interested in? The answer was a hard YES.

Once again, I am withdrawing myself from this toxic thread once and for all. You have your answer. Good night, all.

 

[Goro]

From the way CN"u" has behaved, any DO school would be better, even Touro NY or Wm Carey.

CNU or LUCOM? Become an NP.

So this brings us to another related problem, something which the adcoms/faculty here can better address (@LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @Med Ed )

if given a choice between a for-profit US MD school (er... CNU) and a good US DO school, what's an ideal choice? If we go above what I had stated, CNU would win... but this actually may not be the wisest decision.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

People like you, who make assumptions like this, are exactly why I avoid threads like these. I tried to contribute and obviously my opinion is not valued and clearly unwanted. I made a clear, easily interpret-able implicit statement that should have been as easy as ABC to follow. You call me a liar and everyone who endorsed your post by liking it also may as well have called me a liar. There are program in my home state which you are very unfamiliar with. I can say that with certainty, because if you understood the admissions program for my state MD school and certain criteria for scholar students, then you would have put two and two together. No, I am not lying, I am merely withdrawing myself from this thread simply because I feel like this has been turned into a hostile thread aimed at anyone who doesn't agree with the majority.

I will say it again. I had a chance to accept and attend an MD school, but due to the location and home-like feeling of my DO school, I decided the DO school was a much better choice considering the teaching hospital and high-yield clinical rotation sites. It boils down to this..can my state DO school offer everything I need to succeed and get into the area of medicine for which I am interested in? The answer was a hard YES.

Once again, I am withdrawing myself from this toxic thread once and for all. You have your answer. Good night, all.

I think you'll make an excellent politician

 

[libertyyne]

I am just going to leave this here.
http://www.ou.edu/honors/specialprograms/MedHumanitiesScholarship.html
"
Q: What does “provisional acceptance” at the College of Medicine mean for students admitted into the MHSP?
Provisional acceptance means that a spot is waiting for you at the OU College of Medicine, if you achieve an MCAT score and a GPA that are equal to or higher than the average MCAT score and GPA of the previous year’s incoming medical school class. Typically, this is an MCAT score of approximately 508 and a science GPA of approximately 3.69. "

 

[0dee]

I have one question that ponders my head all the time. Some of the current SDN members will hopefully become PDs for residency programs in the future. Will they still hold a bias against DOs like the elder PDs do in today's world? It seems like the bias will exist 20-30 years from now.

 

[AlteredScale]

I have one question that ponders my head all the time. Some of the current SDN members will hopefully become PDs for residency programs in the future. Will they still hold a bias against DOs like the elder PDs do in today's world? It seems like the bias will exist 20-30 years from now.

DOs that become PDs will probably still be PDs of programs that had already taken DOs in the first place so there is not bias to break. I don't see a lot of programs that already dismiss DOs having a DO as a PD beyond maybe a few rare exceptions.


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[CastleG8]

As a Texas resident, I would choose TCOM over out of state MD. As a veteran with Hazlewood, it's a no-brainer. I'm also cool with primary care. I'm in my 30's with blue-collar roots.
I actually like TCOM/UNT location. The hospital tour and the school just felt right.

I haven't had any IS MD II's yet and only applied AACOM and TMDSAS.

 

[0dee]

Also I'm seeing DO students and pre DO folks being very defensive and trying to prove that the bias is minimal, which makes it brutal to read. I'm just a measly pre med but by spending so much time with many DO attendings, residents, and current DO student, it is obvious as the sun that there are many obstacles that DOs face. It's not just SDN talk, the bias is real, admit it, accept it and be happy that you're going to be a practicing physician in the US. At least that's my attitude applying next cycle to both MD and DO schools.

 

[holdthemayo]

-quoted stuff-

I think you will find than many of the people calling you out (including me) are either current DO students or applied DO this cycle. You go to OSU and made a, perhaps unfortunately phrased, statement implying that you chose it over an actual acceptance at OU. Then for inexplicable reasons refuse to give a yes or no answer to whether or not you actually got into an MD school or chose to only apply DO.

The only person in this thread who seems to have a problem with you going to a DO school is... you.

Many states ARE DO friendly, but many places are not. Usually because the people are not very well informed on the practices and rights of osteopathic physicians, or maybe they just don't like change. I, for one, would have very quickly dropped my acceptance for my state MD school for the acceptance I have now at my DO school. It is all up to you, but the vast majority of SDN users will call you dumb if you don't choose MD over DO!

fwiw you have posted elsewhere on these forums that implies you chose DO over a hypothetical option to attend MD (see above). I'm not trying to pick a fight with you. I'm glad you like your school, but your posts in this thread have been extremely defensive and unclear, and your refusal to offer a small piece of clarification is strange.

So putting the OrdinaryDO controversy on the side, I think we can all agree on the following:

If you are accepted to US MD and US DO, pick US MD no matter what. US MD helps in the following ways:

1. US MD doesn't inherently close doors to any specialty

2. US MD generally has better clinical opportunities due to much more stringent ACGME/LCME regulations (they aren't afraid to put a US MD school on probation for violating the standards)

3. US MD students only deal with one exam (the USMLE), as opposed to US DO students who have to deal with an additional burden of COMLEX exams

4. US MD usually has better research and networking opportunities

And of course, common sense says always pick a US medical school over any offshore/abroad schools if you want to practice medicine in the US.

This should be auto-posted in all future MD vs DO threads, with the addition of Goro's caveat for CNU and LUCOM.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I am just going to leave this here.
http://www.ou.edu/honors/specialprograms/MedHumanitiesScholarship.html
"
Q: What does “provisional acceptance” at the College of Medicine mean for students admitted into the MHSP?
Provisional acceptance means that a spot is waiting for you at the OU College of Medicine, if you achieve an MCAT score and a GPA that are equal to or higher than the average MCAT score and GPA of the previous year’s incoming medical school class. Typically, this is an MCAT score of approximately 508 and a science GPA of approximately 3.69. "

The guy's original name was OrdinaryMD. He had it changed last year.


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[libertyyne]

The guy's original name was OrdinaryMD. He had it changed last year.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Why would someone who has an MD state school inside track interview for the inaugural class of a new DO school in a different state? Color me confused.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Why would someone who has an MD state school inside track interview for the inaugural class of a new DO school in a different state? Color me confused.

I don't know why I keep coming back to this, but I do. I didn't turn it down for the inaugural class. The turn of events came well before I was accepted to any DO school. I figured, perhaps recklessly so, that if I could get into an MD school, then I should have no problem getting to my state DO school. I was almost proven wrong and I am VERY fortunate to have been given the opportunity to attend the school I sought after. I get it, MD > DO 99% of the time. But, many people forget to factor in the human aspect of the whole ordeal. I would have been in a very bad place if I went to my state MD schools for many personal reasons of my own. My DO school made me feel at home, my mentors who are also DOs made me feel like success in the DO community is attainable to those who put forth effort, and the fact that my DO school has very strong ties to MANY great rotation sites and residency sites in a big city. Maybe I made a mistake by doing that I did, but in the end I am VERY happy with where I am. I have a house of my own that was given to me for free (5000+ sq ft.) which is humbling and very generous, I have all of my family for support, and a very loving fiance whom wouldn't be able to move with me due to job ties and constraints. I have a lot of reasons for doing what I did and I do not regret it for a second.

As for Psai - I do not like the way he responded to my post. He was very disrespectful and confrontational for no apparent reason. He took my post and made it something I never intended it to be and he basically read what he wanted to see in my posts and responded with hostility and disrespect. I am sorry if you all think I offended you, but I was under the impression that I made my answers apparently clear and people were just trying to troll on the conversation. I don't say things on SDN with the intent to provoke negativity in any way, shape, or form. So no, I don't appreciate when people call me out as a liar and say that I am speaking in hypothetical terms just because I don't feel the need to justify myself and explain in great detail everything that I did in my pre-medical application cycle. So, I hope this concludes the talk about "ordinaryDO" or as you all have noticed AKA "OrdinaryMD..."

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I really think CNU and for-profit schools inherently are at a disadvantage academically as their reputation/"trust" are put into question.

Eh i really don't think the "for-profit" status matters at all. It's more about how the school acts and how its students perform. RVU is a for-profit DO school yet consistently has some of the best matches in the DO world. No matter what anyone says I think a student from CNU with a 230 and some research will match better than someone with the same CV from a DO school. I will continue to believe this until they have a match list that shows otherwise.

 

[holdthemayo]

I don't know why I keep coming back to this, but I do. I didn't turn it down for the inaugural class. The turn of events came well before I was accepted to any DO school. I figured, perhaps recklessly so, that if I could get into an MD school, then I should have no problem getting to my state DO school. I was almost proven wrong and I am VERY fortunate to have been given the opportunity to attend the school I sought after. I get it, MD > DO 99% of the time. But, many people forget to factor in the human aspect of the whole ordeal. I would have been in a very bad place if I went to my state MD schools for many personal reasons of my own. My DO school made me feel at home, my mentors who are also DOs made me feel like success in the DO community is attainable to those who put forth effort, and the fact that my DO school has very strong ties to MANY great rotation sites and residency sites in a big city. Maybe I made a mistake by doing that I did, but in the end I am VERY happy with where I am. I have a house of my own that was given to me for free (5000+ sq ft.) which is humbling and very generous, I have all of my family for support, and a very loving fiance whom wouldn't be able to move with me due to job ties and constraints. I have a lot of reasons for doing what I did and I do not regret it for a second.

As for Psai - I do not like the way he responded to my post. He was very disrespectful and confrontational for no apparent reason. He took my post and made it something I never intended it to be and he basically read what he wanted to see in my posts and responded with hostility and disrespect. I am sorry if you all think I offended you, but I was under the impression that I made my answers apparently clear and people were just trying to troll on the conversation. I don't say things on SDN with the intent to provoke negativity in any way, shape, or form. So no, I don't appreciate when people call me out as a liar and say that I am speaking in hypothetical terms just because I don't feel the need to justify myself and explain in great detail everything that I did in my pre-medical application cycle. So, I hope this concludes the talk about "ordinaryDO" or as you all have noticed AKA "OrdinaryMD..."

Thanks for clarifying. A simple "yes" to the first question, rather than being evasive, would have ended it two pages ago. \

It sounds like you are very happy with your school and that you made the right choice for you. Best of luck.

 

[holdthemayo]

Eh i really don't think the "for-profit" status matters at all. It's more about how the school acts and how its students perform. RVU is a for-profit DO school yet consistently has some of the best matches in the DO world. No matter what anyone says I think a student from CNU with a 230 and some research will match better than someone with the same CV from a DO school. I will continue to believe this until they have a match list that shows otherwise.

I think the for-profit aspect plays into it. The for-profit nature by its nature prioritizes the shareholder's interests over those of the students/faculty. I don't think that means a for profit school cannot provide a quality education, as you point out RVU students are doing well. I think that it helps frame the motives behind some of CNU's questionable decisions and incentivizes acting in ways that are not in the schools best interest.

 

[libertyyne]

I don't know why I keep coming back to this, but I do. I didn't turn it down for the inaugural class. The turn of events came well before I was accepted to any DO school. I figured, perhaps recklessly so, that if I could get into an MD school, then I should have no problem getting to my state DO school. I was almost proven wrong and I am VERY fortunate to have been given the opportunity to attend the school I sought after. I get it, MD > DO 99% of the time. But, many people forget to factor in the human aspect of the whole ordeal. I would have been in a very bad place if I went to my state MD schools for many personal reasons of my own. My DO school made me feel at home, my mentors who are also DOs made me feel like success in the DO community is attainable to those who put forth effort, and the fact that my DO school has very strong ties to MANY great rotation sites and residency sites in a big city. Maybe I made a mistake by doing that I did, but in the end I am VERY happy with where I am. I have a house of my own that was given to me for free (5000+ sq ft.) which is humbling and very generous, I have all of my family for support, and a very loving fiance whom wouldn't be able to move with me due to job ties and constraints. I have a lot of reasons for doing what I did and I do not regret it for a second.

As for Psai - I do not like the way he responded to my post. He was very disrespectful and confrontational for no apparent reason. He took my post and made it something I never intended it to be and he basically read what he wanted to see in my posts and responded with hostility and disrespect. I am sorry if you all think I offended you, but I was under the impression that I made my answers apparently clear and people were just trying to troll on the conversation. I don't say things on SDN with the intent to provoke negativity in any way, shape, or form. So no, I don't appreciate when people call me out as a liar and say that I am speaking in hypothetical terms just because I don't feel the need to justify myself and explain in great detail everything that I did in my pre-medical application cycle. So, I hope this concludes the talk about "ordinaryDO" or as you all have noticed AKA "OrdinaryMD..."

I am not trying to be provoke anything here, I am just trying to understand all this.
1) you had an acceptance to an MD school you turned down because you didnt want to leave your home- understandable.
2)You turned around and applied to state DO school and DO schools in other states. - Other states still dont make sense in this context.
3)You ended up being accepted into your dream DO school at home at the last moment. -Congrats.

Congrats for accomplishing your goal and good luck.

 

[libertyyne]

I think the for-profit aspect plays into it. The for-profit nature by its nature prioritizes the shareholder's interests over those of the students/faculty. I don't think that means a for profit school cannot provide a quality education, as you point out RVU students are doing well. I think that it helps frame the motives behind some of CNU's questionable decisions and incentivizes acting in ways that are not in the schools best interest.

I mean you can still make a profit by providing a good quality product or service to your customers , right? Because if not the same logic can be applied to for profit healthcare.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

I am not trying to be provoke anything here, I am just trying to understand all this.
1) you had an acceptance to an MD school you turned down because you didnt want to leave your home- understandable.
2)You turned around and applied to state DO school and DO schools in other states. - Other states still dont make sense in this context.
3)You ended up being accepted into your dream DO school at home at the last moment. -Congrats.

Congrats for accomplishing your goal and good luck.

Eh, close enough. I listed the other reasons above. I had other experiences with that school while still in undergrad that didn't hold well with me.

 

[Lawpy]

In my opinion, which is in fairness poorly formed (CNU might have incredible rotations for all I know, despite the odds), I would rather go to, say, PCOM than a CNU. This would be the case even had CNU not hung a millstone of private loans on their students, but this only emboldens my opinion.

But to be more general, I would probably opt to go to a good DO school over mid-tier MD school if the difference in loans was in the order of 400-500k.

I can't really defend the for-profit MD cases because they don't make any sense. So I'll have to go with US DO > for-profit US MD for now.

Regarding the general case, why don't you believe that the 400-500k extra in loans for mid-tier MD school is worth it? Yes it's really expensive and may be difficult to repay in few years, but wouldn't this still be a necessary investment for long-term goals? Because it seems the cost factor can be really burdensome such that taking a hit in long-term opportunities may be a good thing.

Someone has said location mattered to them in their decision to pick a medical school. I can respect that, but medical education doesn't seem to be all that accommodating, and sometimes moving to different places for training may be necessary.

 

[Med Ed]

So this brings us to another related problem, something which the adcoms/faculty here can better address (@LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @Med Ed )

if given a choice between a for-profit US MD school (er... CNU) and a good US DO school, what's an ideal choice? If we go above what I had stated, CNU would win... but this actually may not be the wisest decision.

I actually don't think CNU will survive. Since they got accredited the LCME seems to be applying a new level of scrutiny on institutional finances which will make tuition-driven allopathic schools almost impossible to start or keep open. Exhibit A is Roseman.

So yes, I would take many DO schools over CNU.

 

[holdthemayo]

I mean you can still make a profit by providing a good quality product or service to your customers , right? Because if not the same logic can be applied to for profit healthcare.

Some of the same criticisms could be made of for profit healthcare....

On point, I don't think the for-profit setup dooms a school to failure, but possibly create an environment where the primary focus is getting that sweet, sweet, student loan money over all else. Caribbean schools, ITT Tech, Corinthian Colleges, and quite a few failed charter schools are all examples of what can happen when education is monetized without sufficient oversight.

 

[libertyyne]

Some of the same criticisms could be made of for profit healthcare....

On point, I don't think the for-profit setup dooms a school to failure, but possibly create an environment where the primary focus is getting that sweet, sweet, student loan money over all else. Caribbean schools, ITT Tech, Corinthian Colleges, and quite a few failed charter schools are all examples of what can happen when education is monetized without sufficient oversight.

The crazy thing is, acceptee's to for profit MD schools will still be academically capable, unlike the majority of Carribean acceptees and have a stable career on the other end unlike ITT and Corinthian. And once this private loan debacle blows over after proper accreditation I predict CNU will become legitimized even in this conversation. As an aside, University of Pheonix and other online schools have been becoming more acceptable in mainstream america.

 

[Lawpy]

I actually don't think CNU will survive. Since they got accredited the LCME seems to be applying a new level of scrutiny on institutional finances which will make tuition-driven allopathic schools almost impossible to start or keep open. Exhibit A is Roseman.

So yes, I would take many DO schools over CNU.

Wait... ACGME/LCME can shut down existing medical schools if they run into trouble? I don't recall this happening and I thought it was rare.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Regarding the general case, why don't you believe that the 400-500k extra in loans for mid-tier MD school is worth it? Yes it's really expensive and may be difficult to repay in few years, but wouldn't this still be a necessary investment for long-term goals? Because it seems the cost factor can be really burdensome such that taking a hit in long-term opportunities may be a good thing.

The thing about opportunities is that you need to consider the reverse of the derm/surgery stuff that's been discussed so far. If you do go to a school, take on 500k extra debt, and decide you love pricare, what now? You're potentially looking at a 150k job with debt obligations of 5-6k a month from your loans alone. That's just too much in my mind. There's a certain arbitrariness to this since different people will make different budgets given their various priorities, but there's definitely a limit.

Wait... ACGME/LCME can shut down existing medical schools if they run into trouble? I don't recall this happening and I thought it was rare.

Didn't it happen in Puerto Rico at some point

 

[Med Ed]

Wait... ACGME/LCME can shut down existing medical schools if they run into trouble? I don't recall this happening and I thought it was rare.

It is rare, in large part because prior to CNU, proprietary (read for-profit) allopathic medical schools in America either died or got merged into oblivion from 1910-35.

The last institution to have its accreditation revoked was San Juan Bautista in 2011, although they sued and eventually got it reinstated.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

I am just going to leave this here.
http://www.ou.edu/honors/specialprograms/MedHumanitiesScholarship.html
"
Q: What does “provisional acceptance” at the College of Medicine mean for students admitted into the MHSP?
Provisional acceptance means that a spot is waiting for you at the OU College of Medicine, if you achieve an MCAT score and a GPA that are equal to or higher than the average MCAT score and GPA of the previous year’s incoming medical school class. Typically, this is an MCAT score of approximately 508 and a science GPA of approximately 3.69. "

My god why do I live in California. I can't believe this is even a thing.

 

[libertyyne]

On the topic at hand. Is there a source of information that would provide me with data on how many DO students got accepted into their First choice vs How Many MDs broken down by specialty? There is talk of DO filters and such, which may exist but I would like to quantify the bias.

 

[libertyyne]

My god why do I live in California. I can't believe this is even a thing.

 

[ConfusedChemist]

My god why do I live in California. I can't believe this is even a thing.

Beyond the ridiculousness of all that....I just want to see some evidence behind this notion that taking history classes makes you a more empathetic doctor. It's kind of like saying someone will be more athletically gifted because you put them in gym class. When really, they'll just be the same uncoordinated person, but in gym class

 

[Goro]

ACGME works only on residencies, NOT medical schools.

LCME is for the MD schools.

Wait... ACGME/LCME can shut down existing medical schools if they run into trouble? I don't recall this happening and I thought it was rare.

 

[Lawpy]

ACGME works only on residencies, NOT medical schools.

LCME is for the MD schools.

yeah i realize but i group them together similar to AOA/COCA. too many acronyms to keep in mind 😛

The thing about opportunities is that you need to consider the reverse of the derm/surgery stuff that's been discussed so far. If you do go to a school, take on 500k extra debt, and decide you love pricare, what now? You're potentially looking at a 150k job with debt obligations of 5-6k a month from your loans alone. That's just too much in my mind. There's a certain arbitrariness to this since different people will make different budgets given their various priorities, but there's definitely a limit.


Didn't it happen in Puerto Rico at some point

okay this makes sense. although this requires being confident in pursuing primary care before starting med school.

yeah but it wasnt shut down

It is rare, in large part because prior to CNU, proprietary (read for-profit) allopathic medical schools in America either died or got merged into oblivion from 1910-35.

The last institution to have its accreditation revoked was San Juan Bautista in 2011, although they sued and eventually got it reinstated.

so if LCME shuts down CNU, CNU can just sue them and get its accreditation reinstated? thats my fear: once a med school achieves its accreditation, its there for good and unlikely to be wiped out/shut down

why do top mcat ranks correspond to low LizzyM scores? what does this chart entail? that its least competitive states in regards to academic metrics?

 

[libertyyne]

yeah i realize but i group them together similar to AOA/COCA. too many acronyms to keep in mind 😛



okay this makes sense. although this requires being confident in pursuing primary care before starting med school.

yeah but it wasnt shut down



so if LCME shuts down CNU, CNU can just sue them and get its accreditation reinstated? thats my fear: once a med school achieves its accreditation, its there for good and unlikely to be wiped out/shut down



why do top mcat ranks correspond to low LizzyM scores? what does this chart entail? that its least competitive states in regards to academic metrics?

Top MCAT rank means lowest MCAT. It is the median LizzyM for matriculants for that state and ordered by lowest LizzyM on the top.

 

[Psai]

On the topic at hand. Is there a source of information that would provide me with data on how many DO students got accepted into their First choice vs How Many MDs broken down by specialty? There is talk of DO filters and such, which may exist but I would like to quantify the bias.

Kinda irrelevant if one guys first choice is harvard and the other guy wants podunk primary care

 

[libertyyne]

Kinda irrelevant if one guys first choice is harvard and the other guy wants podunk primary care

Isn't there like zero incentive to not pick a reach for your residency considering the algorithm?
Is there a any metric that could point towards bias in obtaining residency?

 

[Ho0v-man]

Eh, close enough. I listed the other reasons above. I had other experiences with that school while still in undergrad that didn't hold well with me.

So you had an MD acceptance to your state school but were about to move out of state to a more expensive brand new for profit DO school?

Cool story bro[emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Med Ed]

My god why do I live in California. I can't believe this is even a thing.

It was conveniently omitted that the OU MHSP receives 125-150 applications, interviews 15, and accepts 5-8. One does not simply waltz in with a 3.7/509.