"Cheap" says the birdie

[HopelessMS]

At 4th year rotation, one attending was ordering lunch from a particular restaurant. Invited other attendings and NPs to order also. The MSs there were not asked to join in. Happened a couple of times during the rotation. Total price of this particular order came out to (+/-) $150.00. Asked out loud how much to tip the delivery driver. Others suggested $20. The attending argued too much. They are only delivering. Gave $10 tip.

During Obgyn clerkship in 3rd year, attending gave PGY3 their CC to order Chipotle. Told everyone in the workroom including MSs to order something for their meals. They paid for the entire order.

Are you the former or latter attending?

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[Lem0nz]

At 4th year rotation, one attending was ordering lunch from a particular restaurant. Invited other attendings and NPs to order also. The MSs there were not asked to join in. Happened a couple of times during the rotation. Total price of this particular order came out to (+/-) $150.00. Asked out loud how much to tip the delivery driver. Others suggested $20. The attending argued too much. They are only delivering. Gave $10 tip.

During Obgyn clerkship in 3rd year, attending gave PGY3 their CC to order Chipotle. Told everyone in the workroom including MSs to order something for their meals. They paid for the entire order.

Are you the former or latter attending?

Latter. Not a big deal unless its the full team and we're celebrating. Have been hit with a couple >$1000 bar tabs. Makes me wince but it is what it is. Usually I'm pretty toasty at that point and it makes me laugh.

 

[LunaOri]

Always treat the medical students. Always.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Out of curiosity, what specialty is the first attending in and how far out of training? @Lem0nz is a surgeon, and OB/Gyn is also a procedural specialty--no offense, but they make more than me (a first-year academic pediatric subspecialist), probably by more than double With 3 kids in daycare and a new mortgage, sorry, I'm already packing my lunch and for sure am not buying for the team.

That said, if someone is buying food, you need to include the whole team. That includes med students. And if you're choosing to get delivery, you need to give an appropriate tip, which should be at least 15-20%.

So I guess I'm neither!

 

[HopelessMS]

They have been an attending for 4 years. For the sake of privacy, it's one of the 3rd year clerkship specialties that's not peds or obgyn.

As one of the MS, it's not about not getting the free meal, but the fact that the attending did not include MSs. It's hard not to conclude that the attending does not considered MSs a part of the team.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Some of the wealthiest people I have ever met were also the cheapest/most frugal.

It becomes a borderline sickness

 

[MDMechEngr]

They either buy for everyone, especially the MS, or they dont buy for anyone at all. Very uncooth and poor leadership to the nth degree, assuming s/he was the leader of the grounp. S/he may be a surgeon, but they are pure trash.

 

[HopelessMS]

Additional question.

Hopefully as an intern next year or beyond, if there are medical students with the team, and something like this situation should come up again, would I be stepping out of my lane or showing up the attending if I offered to pay for the medstudents' meals?

Can I do it quietly by telling the assistant to put the MSs' meals on my CC without offending the attending?

 

[ACSurgeon]

Additional question.

Hopefully as an intern next year or beyond, if there are medical students with the team, and something like this situation should come up again, would I be stepping out of my lane or showing up the attending if I offered to pay for the medstudents' meals?

Can I do it quietly by telling the assistant to put the MSs' meals on my CC without offending the attending?

As an intern try to not make waves. Don’t try to save the students, as you’re barely a notch above their level.

A chief/senior resident could probably pull something like that or even tell the attending they missed the student…

 

[ACSurgeon]

Some of the wealthiest people I have ever met were also the cheapest/most frugal.

It becomes a borderline sickness

Oftentimes becoming wealthy requires being frugal. Otherwise you remain a HENRY.

 

[PikminOC]

Oftentimes becoming wealthy requires being frugal. Otherwise you remain a HENRY.

What's henry

 

[ACSurgeon]

What's henry

High earner, not rich yet

 

[operaman]

Yeah I never let students or residents pay. Even as a resident I always put students’ meals on my meal card if we were on call together or weekend rounding or something. People did it for me as a student and now I pay it forward.

That said it’s not a frequent occurrence - I rarely have time to eat my own lunch much less buy for others! We still have drug and device reps come and treat the office sometimes too and they also buy for everyone.

 

[throwaway123342]

Half these med students are richer than I am. Once I hit mid career I might start flexing tho

 

[Oso]

I still remember a couple of times when attendings bought lunch for the whole team, including me, a 3-4th year student. Really made me feel like I was appreciated plus the food was of course hella good. Maybe it’s silly but it definitely made a lasting impression.

Hope to be able to do the same some day, though it doesn’t have to quite be as much or as expensive. Bringing in coffee and bagels/donuts for the team on a weekend is also appreciated!

 

[HopelessMS]

At the 4th year rotation, I was working with another attending who graduated the same residency and same year as the attending in my OP. Regarding bringing in donuts for the staff, a national donut chain was having an anniversary promotion with a buy one dozen get one dozen for an amount <$1.00. I saw the promotion on my phone and mentioned it to the attending I was working with and said perhaps the staff might enjoy some donuts on the upcoming Friday. The attending scoffed at the idea. Cast from the same residency program mold I suppose.

 

[throwaway123342]

At the 4th year rotation, I was working with another attending who graduated the same residency and same year as the attending in my OP. Regarding bringing in donuts for the staff, a national donut chain was having an anniversary promotion with a buy one dozen get one dozen for an amount <$1.00. I saw the promotion on my phone and mentioned it to the attending I was working with and said perhaps the staff might enjoy some donuts on the upcoming Friday. The attending scoffed at the idea. Cast from the same residency program mold I suppose.

A little gouche to ask for the donation i think sir

 

[HopelessMS]

Whether it's believed or not, I was going to take advantage of the promotion and purchase two dozen donuts to bring into the clinic for the staff that following Friday. This was the 3rd week of a monthlong rotation. After the attending's reaction, I decided against doing so in the event they think I was trying to upstage them.

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

why do people care about free food?! It’s weird to offer to buy someone’s meal just to show you are generous and it’s weird to accept that offer when you are capable of affording your own meal. Worked for over a decade in high paying industries. Never cared about free food cos it’s such a small thing.

 

[LunaOri]

why do people care about free food?! It’s weird to offer to buy someone’s meal just to show you are generous and it’s weird to accept that offer when you are capable of affording your own meal. Worked for over a decade in high paying industries. Never cared about free food cos it’s such a small thing.

I think it’s because when you are working so hard and stretched so thin, any little sign that you are noticed and appreciated feels sooo good!

 

[srirachamayonnaise]

I think it’s because when you are working so hard and stretched so thin, any little sign that you are noticed and appreciated feels sooo good!

just pay me more lol.

 

[SooConfused]

just pay me more lol.

It's different, because one is a faceless administration responding to national/regional market forces while the other is a personal recognition by people you are directly working with, coming out of their own pocket.

We'll get paid more when the market decides that is necessary. In the meantime, having an attending show appreciation for our efforts, or not, is all we have. Now, do you want to split that last donut? 🍩

 

[Osteosaur]

I think these are two different situations.

One is the leader treating the team. Absolutely should include the medical students. Nothing feels worse than being a student, being made to come to some BS didactics, and being told "oh we did not order you lunch lol"

The other seems to be work colleagues chipping into an order. Was the attending treating them or just ordering together? Not being included in that feels a little like being upset they didn't invite you to eat at the table with them. I would not really want to get into a whole thing of who venmos who what with subordinates/strangers.

 

[HopelessMS]

A classmate who had rotated in the same clinic months earlier was told by a NP they worked with that every now and then the team is treated by an attending. Who and when to buy lunch rotates amongst the attendings at the site. When the classmate was there, they were included as it was a different attending buying.

 

[SCallergydoc]

Can't remember an attending ever buying anyone a meal---MS; resident or during fellowship

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Can't remember an attending ever buying anyone a meal---MS; resident or during fellowship

We had one OB attending that when she covered night float would order in 5 guys for everyone.

 

[Hzreio]

Some of the wealthiest people I have ever met were also the cheapest/most frugal.

It becomes a borderline sickness

I know. How do you make 250k+ and decide that a ~15% tip on a 150 dollar order is too much…

 

[Lifeblood_20]

I shadowed a surgeon as an M1. It was the first time I was in the OR so of course I was just there to observe and not get in the way. The surgeon happened to buy lunch for the team that day and they even included me, a first-year newbie just tagging along and not really doing anything. Really warmed my heart. (And I did not once break sterile field so I guess that’s good)

 

[deleted1139416]

Inpatient IM - attending bought us lunch 3 times during the rotation + a $400 dinner at a fancy restaurant for 5 people at the end of the rotation. Can’t go into details but my attending was loaded. She’s very loving towards medical students, except during presentations where she’ll rip you a new one. Now that I think of it, she probably feeds us to make up for the fact that she’s very hard on us because she wants us to become really great doctors.

 

[deleted1139416]

We had one OB attending that when she covered night float would order in 5 guys for everyone.

Food or strippers? 😉

 

[sloop]

I know. How do you make 250k+ and decide that a ~15% tip on a 150 dollar order is too much…

I might get flamed for this but . . . I never understood why percentage tips for delivery makes any sense.

I generally tip a flat amount for delivery. For small orders this winds up being an absurd percent tip (like sometimes a 50% tip). For expensive orders it might be what some would consider a small percentage tip. If there are a lot of items and there are likely to be multiple bags of food, I sometimes tip a little more for the hassle associated with that, but I’m not tipping 15-20 percent on a $150+ order.

It does not take twice as much effort to deliver $150 worth of food as it does to deliver $75 worth of food. Why does it make sense to tip a percent in these situations? It is different if you are at a sit down restaurant because the waiters at very expensive restaurants often have a ton of experience, are more likely to see that job as a true career, and are doing a lot to make your experience special. So in that sense, it makes sense for the tip to be in pegged to the meal price. The GrubHub driver, on the other hand, is not treating your steakhouse order with any more care than he is treating your Wendy’s order. Why should he get paid more for delivering from a more expensive restaurant when it is the same amount of work?

 

[deleted1139416]

I might get flamed for this but . . . I never understood why percentage tips for delivery makes any sense.

I generally tip a flat amount for delivery. For small orders this winds up being an absurd percent tip (like sometimes a 50% tip). For expensive orders it might be what some would consider a small percentage tip. If there are a lot of items and there are likely to be multiple bags of food, I sometimes tip a little more for the hassle associated with that, but I’m not tipping 15-20 percent on a $150+ order.

It does not take twice as much effort to deliver $150 worth of food as it does to deliver $75 worth of food. Why does it make sense to tip a percent in these situations? It is different if you are at a sit down restaurant because the waiters at very expensive restaurants often have a ton of experience, are more likely to see that job as a true career, and are doing a lot to make your experience special. So in that sense, it makes sense for the tip to be in pegged to the meal price. The GrubHub driver, on the other hand, is not treating your steakhouse order with any more care than he is treating your Wendy’s order. Why should he get paid more for delivering from a more expensive restaurant when it is the same amount of work?

Agreed. It makes much more sense to tip based on traffic/time spent, etc.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

When I was a resident we wrapped the Na Nitroprusside bag with aluminum foil, with pt name date and time attached. One attending was so cheap I saw him eating a sandwich the next day that was wrapped in aluminum foil with a patients name attached to it.

 

[Redpancreas]

I’ll get flamed but I’m probably the former.

1. Delivery costs for food are already super inflated. I give only the required mandatory tip and give cash if the driver does a good job (prompt, follows instructions, doesn’t try to cut corners).

2. In my experience medical students usually leave midday and only really present in the morning. They’re not delivering care or following up on stuff. They’re not really working long hrs. Most come from upper middle class families. I’d prioritize the residents/fellows too. Yes they can probably afford their own meals too but at least they’re probably hungry and don’t get excused for lunch.

 

[PandaBaer]

I feel split. On the one hand, it is nice to be included in the team as a student. On the other hand, pretty sure students are an overall drag on the team.
I remember shadowing an ortho as a pre-med, his clinic/center offered free catered lunch for everyone once a week. I happened to shadow that day and was included in the lunch along with everyone. I didn't feel like I really deserved it, but it was nice to tag along.

tlr my thoughts are, as an attending it's probably nice to include everyone in team lunches, but as a student don't expect it and treat it as a nice perk when it happens.

 

[dienekes88]

Unfortunate that the students weren't included. Having said that, you have to recognize that people are in very different life situations.

One attending might have a partner who stays at home with 3 kids + nanny in a non-procedural specialty with $350,000 debt.
Another attending might be dual income, no kids, with no debt.

One is much more likely to pull out the credit card.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

One attending might have a partner who stays at home with 3 kids + nanny in a non-procedural specialty with $350,000 debt.

If he can’t tip the delivery drive an extra 10 dollars, then maybe he should just bring his own lunches tbh

 

[GoSpursGo]

Unfortunate that the students weren't included. Having said that, you have to recognize that people are in very different life situations.

One attending might have a partner who stays at home with 3 kids + nanny in a non-procedural specialty with $350,000 debt.
Another attending might be dual income, no kids, with no debt.

One is much more likely to pull out the credit card.

Yeah basically what I said above... but ultimately if you're going to buy for the team, include the whole team. If you are in an academic setting where you are expected to teach students, then you should include the students. If you don't want to pay for everyone, then don't pay for anyone.

And tip an appropriate amount, whatever that may be to you.