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I am looking to buy the full set within the next 2 weeks. I have looked on Craigslist, but there is only one listing that is over priced, EBay does not have any good deals, and Amazon does not have many for sale. Would it be best to just buy straight from the Berkeley review site?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
 
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Has anyone ordered through the Berkeley Review site? It seems like such a hassle with sending an order form with all of these random fees.
 

BerkReviewTeach

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Has anyone ordered through the Berkeley Review site? It seems like such a hassle with sending an order form with all of these random fees.
I really wish they'd introduce the online ordering that supposedly was going into effect soon. But alas, it's a pain in the butt system still. The good news though is that you'll get the very latest versions, and buying them used could land you older versions that are written in.
 
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Has anyone ordered through the Berkeley Review site? It seems like such a hassle with sending an order form with all of these random fees.
I did and that too to Canada... They were not bad. I got them in about 10 days...
 

BerkReviewTeach

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I bought the pdfs from someone on craigslist for $60.

If it is not illegal, I would provide them to you for free. I don't need them anymore and I don't care about making money.
It is illegal to buy, sell, or distribute stolen materials, which is exactly what those pdf files are. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I don't get why people steal.
 
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It is illegal to buy, sell, or distribute stolen materials, which is exactly what those pdf files are. Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I don't get why people steal.
Lol. Owned. I bought mine from BR themselves. But you need to mail in something unless they changed to online ordering
 

MedPR

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Has anyone ordered through the Berkeley Review site? It seems like such a hassle with sending an order form with all of these random fees.
Yup. Sent my order form and check, had my books 7 days later.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile
 

MedPR

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I bought the pdfs from someone on craigslist for $60.

If it is not illegal, I would provide them to you for free. I don't need them anymore and I don't care about making money.
Why would you pay for pirated stuff that you could just get for free?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile
 

RoyalRailer

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Has anyone ordered through the Berkeley Review site? It seems like such a hassle with sending an order form with all of these random fees.

Yes. Overnighted my order w/ credit card number and received my books 5 days ltr in a state 1500 miles away from Ca
 

mr chievous

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Not sure if it's illegal or not, but you can find TBR PDFs all over the internet now.
 

OneTwoThreeFour

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I honestly couldn't care less. I don't care about making money on these documents because I personally know how expensive all mcat prep is (in total I spent almost $400, if not more). You can be high and mighty about stealing, but I understand that people with limited means often times can not access many mcat prep materials.

So sure, if someone is cash strapped I wouldn't mind sharing them for free. Personally, I think it speaks volumes about the socioeconomic inequality in our country that only people who can afford to fork over hundreds of dollars have access to prep materials to become doctors.
I dunno. If it was me, I'd just be less likely to tell the people I stole from that I stole their material...
If you were hooked up to MDApplicant, Berkeley Review guy could just go on your profile, and tell whomever he wanted that you broke the law.
 

RoyalRailer

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I honestly couldn't care less. I don't care about making money on these documents because I personally know how expensive all mcat prep is (in total I spent almost $400, if not more). You can be high and mighty about stealing, but I understand that people with limited means often times can not access many mcat prep materials.

So sure, if someone is cash strapped I wouldn't mind sharing them for free. Personally, I think it speaks volumes about the socioeconomic inequality in our country that only people who can afford to fork over hundreds of dollars have access to prep materials to become doctors.
Ever heard of something called a JOB?
 

mr chievous

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Ever heard of something called a JOB?
Oh give it a rest. Prep companies charge thousands of dollars. I'm sure plenty of people can't afford it since they have other finances to worry about. America was built on torrents :soexcited:
 

RoyalRailer

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Oh give it a rest. Prep companies charge thousands of dollars. I'm sure plenty of people can't afford it since they have other finances to worry about. America was built on torrents :soexcited:
Charge thousands of dollars?

I don't know what prep companies you are using buddy but my brand new TBR books only cost me $310 for the whole set....


Some things in this world are more than worth paying the price for...
 

mr chievous

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Charge thousands of dollars?

I don't know what prep companies you are using buddy but my brand new TBR books only cost me $310 for the whole set....


Some things in this world are more than worth paying the price for...
Well my brand new set of TBR books cost me $0. I can use those $310 on something better.

And the prep companies I'm talking about are Princeton, Kaplan, etc.
 

RoyalRailer

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Well my brand new set of TBR books cost me $0. I can use those $310 on something better.

And the prep companies I'm talking about are Princeton, Kaplan, etc.

So you're blatantly bragging about stealing a invaluable resource that most of us on here paid for...



...Good luck w/ that
 

mr chievous

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So you're blatantly bragging about stealing a invaluable resource that most of us on here paid for...



...Good luck w/ that
I said I got it for $0. Show me where I said I stole it. I got the books from my roommate.

I'm simply saying that with PDF versions of TBR being out, I'm not against people finding them online and using them, considering a lot of people can't afford them. You just sound butthurt because you had to pay $310. Quit complaining.
 

RoyalRailer

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I said I got it for $0. Show me where I said I stole it. I got the books from my roommate.

I'm simply saying that with PDF versions of TBR being out, I'm not against people finding them online and using them, considering a lot of people can't afford them. You just sound butthurt because you had to pay $310. Quit complaining.


LMAO!!


You got them from your roommate for $0......right........



My argument still stands. Some things in this world are more than worth paying money for and the TBR books are more than worth it...And for the quality and amount of material in TBR I thought $310 was a great price and actually too low...


But you can go on w/ your ways...

Best of luck to ya
 

mr chievous

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LMAO!!


You got them from your roommate for $0......right........



My argument still stands. Some things in this world are more than worth paying money for and the TBR books are more than worth it...And for the quality and amount of material in TBR I thought $310 was a great price and actually too low...


But you can go on w/ your ways...

Best of luck to ya
Not sure what kind of friends you have, but mine don't charge me if I need to borrow something.

And did you seriously just say that you think TBR sells their books too cheap? Get off their nuts
 

Dbate

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Not sure what kind of friends you have, but mine don't charge me if I need to borrow something.

And did you seriously just say that you think TBR sells their books too cheap? Get off their nuts
:rofl: :laugh:
 
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LMAO!!


You got them from your roommate for $0......right........



My argument still stands. Some things in this world are more than worth paying money for and the TBR books are more than worth it...And for the quality and amount of material in TBR I thought $310 was a great price and actually too low...


But you can go on w/ your ways...

Best of luck to ya
A friend recommended Princeton Review and Exam Krackers books to me (after I had already purchased Kaplan) and I agree. They were tremendous resources and a huge help, really explained things in a way that made so much sense.

I'm not sure about others, but I'd be skeptical of buying prep books off of craigslist, though.
 

BerkReviewTeach

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I honestly cannot believe what I'm reading. Two people who plan to go into the honorble field of medicine bragging about stealing materials. This has nothing to do with any high horse; it has to do with honesty and integrity. No matter how you spin it, it is thievery. I hope, and not for vindictive reasons but more so for you to gain some empathy, that one time someone steals from you blatantly and then brags about it.

Not sure if it's illegal or not, but you can find TBR PDFs all over the internet now.
You know very well it's illegal, just like pirating music, movies, and books is illegal. Just like walking into a store and taking clothes or food is illegal. You can't simultaneously be smart enough to get into medical school and claim to be ignorant of something so obviously illegal. At least be honest that you know it's dishonest.

I honestly couldn't care less. I don't care about making money on these documents because I personally know how expensive all mcat prep is (in total I spent almost $400, if not more). You can be high and mighty about stealing, but I understand that people with limited means often times can not access many mcat prep materials.

So sure, if someone is cash strapped I wouldn't mind sharing them for free. Personally, I think it speaks volumes about the socioeconomic inequality in our country that only people who can afford to fork over hundreds of dollars have access to prep materials to become doctors.
It's magnanimous of you to justify your actions by telling yourself you are Robinhood. But to truly be Robinhood you must take your quest long past the $400 for prep materials to helping people not pay the $5000 or so for applying and the $200,000+ for tuition to many medical schools. This should help your personal statement and be one of your top three activities when you fill out your AMCAS app.

The thing is, I doubt you stop to fathom that the companies you are stealing from give back to help people. It doesn't help you justify your thievery, but consider for a moment the work Princeton Review does in the community to help underpriviledged kids get to college. Kids at our local high school can get a free course and help with counseling because of their generosity. Berkeley Review employees and owners support amongst many other causes, the Salvation Army, Wounded Warrior Porject, and Project Angel Food. Kaplan I know helps with Doctors Without Borders. You may think you are being altruistic, but you should know who you are stealing from too. I'm not going to say these companies don't make money, but you can't say they don't help people.

There's nothing I can do beyond ask you to please stop your dishonesty. I know you are choosing not to consider it, but your actions have consequences you may never directly see. If you steal from the small local grocery store and brag about it, causing others to do the same, and then that store goes out of business, you have done far more harm than you figured with your actions.

You stole those materials when you bought illegal copies. Now you are trying to pile on by encouraging others to steal. Please stop. And if you get the itch to do the right thing, and you don't care about money as you claim, then why don't you take the $310 you should have paid for your BR books and donate it to the Wounded Warrior Project? or some other worthy group in need? Let your actions support your words.
 

Dbate

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I honestly cannot believe what I'm reading. Two people who plan to go into the honorble field of medicine bragging about stealing materials. This has nothing to do with any high horse; it has to do with honesty and integrity. No matter how you spin it, it is thievery. I hope, and not for vindictive reasons but more so for you to gain some empathy, that one time someone steals from you blatantly and then brags about it.



You know very well it's illegal, just like pirating music, movies, and books is illegal. Just like walking into a store and taking clothes or food is illegal. You can't simultaneously be smart enough to get into medical school and claim to be ignorant of something so obviously illegal. At least be honest that you know it's dishonest.



It's magnanimous of you to justify your actions by telling yourself you are Robinhood. But to truly be Robinhood you must take your quest long past the $400 for prep materials to helping people not pay the $5000 or so for applying and the $200,000+ for tuition to many medical schools. This should help your personal statement and be one of your top three activities when you fill out your AMCAS app.

The thing is, I doubt you stop to fathom that the companies you are stealing from give back to help people. It doesn't help you justify your thievery, but consider for a moment the work Princeton Review does in the community to help underpriviledged kids get to college. Kids at our local high school can get a free course and help with counseling because of their generosity. Berkeley Review employees and owners support amongst many other causes, the Salvation Army, Wounded Warrior Porject, and Project Angel Food. Kaplan I know helps with Doctors Without Borders. You may think you are being altruistic, but you should know who you are stealing from too. I'm not going to say these companies don't make money, but you can't say they don't help people.

There's nothing I can do beyond ask you to please stop your dishonesty. I know you are choosing not to consider it, but your actions have consequences you may never directly see. If you steal from the small local grocery store and brag about it, causing others to do the same, and then that store goes out of business, you have done far more harm than you figured with your actions.

You stole those materials when you bought illegal copies. Now you are trying to pile on by encouraging others to steal. Please stop. And if you get the itch to do the right thing, and you don't care about money as you claim, then why don't you take the $310 you should have paid for your BR books and donate it to the Wounded Warrior Project? or some other worthy group in need? Let your actions support your words.
Stop. Just stop. Corporations are in the business of making money, so to conflate altruism and business is nothing more than a disingenuous PR move.

Reselling materials is completely within the confines of the law. I purchased books for $60. And selling materials is common place on SDN and throughout the world.

So I have no problem helping people out who can't afford things. There is no profit motive there.
 
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gettheleadout

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Solicitation of piracy and copyright infringement will not be tolerated on SDN.

Receiving, producing, or distributing unlicensed electronic versions of copyrighted materials is illegal and counter to the policies of these forums. If you have a problem with that then be aware that you are knowingly acting in violation of the TOS and will be subject to disciplinary action accordingly. SDN is not the place for facilitating illegal activities.

On a personal note, $60 for a pair of large, quality print books is not unreasonable, given their content and passages. If you can't afford to buy TBR books, you're not entitled to have them just because you want them. I've spent over a thousand dollars on MCAT prep materials, as my MDApps says, and I had that to spend not because my family is rich or I ever got an allowance, but because I've continually held multiple, sometimes simultaneous part-time jobs for the past half-decade, and I saved money frugally. I earned the access to the materials I purchased. How did you earn the right to use them? You don't own them until you pay for them, so what gives you the right to use what someone else owns?
 

Dbate

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Solicitation of piracy and copyright infringement will not be tolerated on SDN.

Receiving, producing, or distributing unlicensed electronic versions of copyrighted materials is illegal and counter to the policies of these forums. If you have a problem with that then be aware that you are knowingly acting in violation of the TOS and will be subject to disciplinary action accordingly. SDN is not the place for facilitating illegal activities.

On a personal note, $60 for a pair of large, quality print books is not unreasonable, given their content and passages. If you can't afford to buy TBR books, you're not entitled to have them just because you want them. I've spent over a thousand dollars on MCAT prep materials, as my MDApps says, and I had that to spend not because my family is rich or I ever got an allowance, but because I've continually held multiple, sometimes simultaneous part-time jobs for the past half-decade, and I saved money frugally. I earned the access to the materials I purchased. How did you earn the right to use them? You don't own them until you pay for them, so what gives you the right to use what someone else owns?
That is a rather subjective statement. $60 is a considerable sum for alot of people who are working their way through college, and it is morally reprehensible to argue that those people shouldn't have access to quality preparatory materials simply because they lack the financial means.

Perhaps I will get banned for saying this, but that is fine.

There is a significant problem in the path to going to medical school. MCAT preparation barely scratches the surface and the cavalier and dismissive attitude that many people on this forum hold to these financial problems speaks volumes about the background and lack of understanding demonstrated amongst future doctors.

So perhaps FOR YOU it was possible to simply "work hard" and save up $1,000, but I would wager that many people working part time to cover their tuition, rent, and books for college prevent them from "simply working hard" to save $1,000 to prep for a test.

I guess those people just don't deserve to be physicians.
 

gettheleadout

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That is a rather subjective statement.
Indeed. It is my opinion.
$60 is a considerable sum for alot of people who are working their way through college, and it is morally reprehensible to argue that those people shouldn't have access to quality preparatory materials simply because they lack the financial means.
Morally reprehensible? TBR has the right to charge whatever they want for their product, and if it is too expensive it will not sell. TBR materials are not essential for doing well on the MCAT. In fact, prep materials period are not essential for doing well on the MCAT in all cases.

I'm just shocked that you would actually argue that it is a moral transgression for a product to be priced a certain way because it prevents those without the financial means from obtaining it. Is it morally reprehensible that I couldn't afford the team of professional tutors and motivators I would have needed to get straight 5's on all the AP exams, a 4.5 in HS and the extracurriculars to get me into an Ivy League college? Everyone should have access to the best quality help after all!

It's absolutely ridiculous that you would think everyone should be entitled to something someone else makes.

Perhaps I will get banned for saying this, but that is fine.

There is a significant problem in the path to going to medical school. MCAT preparation barely scratches the surface and the cavalier and dismissive attitude that many people on this forum hold to these financial problems speaks volumes about the background and lack of understanding demonstrated amongst future doctors.
I respect that you feel that way. However, I disagree that such an attitude is cavalier and dismissive. I have yet to meet someone who disagrees with the AAMC's Financial Assistance Program, which rightfully eases the burden on applicants lacking sufficient financial support. You are extending this obligation to a private company, whom no one is obligated to do business with, and arguing moral insult. I find that ridiculous.
 
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gettheleadout

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Since you edited I'll respond to the new material.

So perhaps FOR YOU it was possible to simply "work hard" and save up $1,000, but I would wager that many people working part time to cover their tuition, rent, and books for college prevent them from "simply working hard" to save $1,000 to prep for a test.

I guess those people just don't deserve to be physicians.
Yes, I was fortunate enough, and made the choice, to attend a lower-ranked school on full scholarship and am not required to work to support my education. I also earned that opportunity, as it is a merit-based scholarship.

Yes, I understand not everyone is on equal ground and some people cannot afford to save up the money as I did. Does this mean they do not deserve to be physicians? Of course not! That is a magnificent strawman.

However, I will vigorously support that it absolutely means they are not entitled to access to the same materials for which I earned and spent money.

Programs exist to rectify the inequality you are so frustrated with. My state medical school provides a free MCAT prep course, complete with all EK materials and AAMC FL's, to disadvantaged applicants. Unless you support blanket socialism, such inequality will persist, and with efforts made to reduce the disadvantage in presents people in this particular process, what are you upset about? Why is this an issue relevant to a private test prep company?
 

JohnWetzel

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It is difficult to afford the stages of medical education. However, this is no justification for taking your bread off the sweat of another person's brow. Pirating copyrighted work is no different than making someone else into your slave. You just can't have any idea how much work there is in something like TBR's course materials.
 

BerkReviewTeach

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Stop. Just stop. Corporations are in the business of making money, so to conflate altruism and business is nothing more than a disingenuous PR move.
You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the company you are stealing from. They are not a corporation and their involvement in projects to help people runs far deeper than you realize. You are not sticking it to the man, nor are you the David you are promoting yourself to be, because you have stolen from a true David.

Reselling materials is completely within the confines of the law. I purchased books for $60. And selling materials is common place on SDN and throughout the world.
If you are so sure you know this law, why not send an email to the Berkeley Review with your exact name and address explaining that you are within your legal rights to sell an illegal copy of their materials that you obtained illegally. I don't think that would end as well as you think. The reality you don't seem to grasp here is that you cannot sell stolen property, whether you bought it from a criminal or not. Can you sell a stolen car? Obviously not. You can't give it away either. It's not yours. It shouldn't be so difficult to grasp.

So I have no problem helping people out who can't afford things. There is no profit motive there.
Easy to say when you are giving away other people's stuff. Why don't you show your real altruism and buy the books and give them away to the needy. I can tell you of several programs nationwide who would love for such a wonderful, self-less person to buy materials for their programs. I can guarantee if you were willing to pick up the tab for the books to help a program aimed at developing doctors for the underserved, BR would match dollar for dollar whatever you bought. You buy one set for them, and it would be matched with one free set. The challenge is out there. Give away your money rather than stolen goods. Prove how truly giving you are.

At the very least, why not pay the $250 difference between the $60 you paid for stolen goods and the $310 cost by donating it to a charity and posting the receipt for everyone to see how giving you are?
 

Mehd School

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It is difficult to afford the stages of medical education. However, this is no justification for taking your bread off the sweat of another person's brow. Pirating copyrighted work is no different than making someone else into your slave. You just can't have any idea how much work there is in something like TBR's course materials.
The difference is that it's easier to not feel bad about stealing literature or music because you never see exactly who suffers from it. I'm not advocating for either side, just making a point.
 

darklabel

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You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the company you are stealing from. They are not a corporation and their involvement in projects to help people runs far deeper than you realize. You are not sticking it to the man, nor are you the David you are promoting yourself to be, because you have stolen from a true David.



If you are so sure you know this law, why not send an email to the Berkeley Review with your exact name and address explaining that you are within your legal rights to sell an illegal copy of their materials that you obtained illegally. I don't think that would end as well as you think. The reality you don't seem to grasp here is that you cannot sell stolen property, whether you bought it from a criminal or not. Can you sell a stolen car? Obviously not. You can't give it away either. It's not yours. It shouldn't be so difficult to grasp.



Easy to say when you are giving away other people's stuff. Why don't you show your real altruism and buy the books and give them away to the needy. I can tell you of several programs nationwide who would love for such a wonderful, self-less person to buy materials for their programs. I can guarantee if you were willing to pick up the tab for the books to help a program aimed at developing doctors for the underserved, BR would match dollar for dollar whatever you bought. You buy one set for them, and it would be matched with one free set. The challenge is out there. Give away your money rather than stolen goods. Prove how truly giving you are.

At the very least, why not pay the $250 difference between the $60 you paid for stolen goods and the $310 cost by donating it to a charity and posting the receipt for everyone to see how giving you are?
You do realize that Berkley Review can subpoena SDN for the ip address of this guy since he brazenly wrote (and essentially admitted) how he stole the material?
 

BerkReviewTeach

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You do realize that Berkley Review can subpoena SDN for the ip address of this guy since he brazenly wrote (and essentially admitted) how he stole the material?
Yes, and if it can be done in an easy way that creates as little stress for SDN as possible, that is the likely route. But if it were to take resources away from a one-of-a-kind site like SDN, whatever gain there may be would not be worth the cost. Hopefully the community will police itself.

And speaking of the community and hopefully getting the thread back on course, let's talk about the best place to get used BR books. In an ideal world, our used books would only be sold in the classifieds here at SDN, so that SDN users could recoup some of their expenses. If everyone would sell them for about $50 below what they paid, then there would one-time used sets in good shape available for people needing to save a little money and multiply-used sets available for really cheap if someone couldn't afford anything. This would benefit the SDN community and undermine criminals. It won't happen that way, but at the very least I hope people sell their used books through SDN classifieds and not ebay or Craigslist. It is safer and promotes a good site.
 
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mr chievous

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First off, no one admitted to stealing. The guy said he bought $60 PDFs and would like to share them. You can buy books online in PDF format, so he may have just bought them assuming it was legal. That's all you can say, you can't criticize him for stealing. Case closed.

And let's say someone does get pirated material, and decides to donate the money they saved to charity. You have no idea what they'll be doing with that money. You can't judge anyone, so get off your high horse. You're not better than anyone just because you guys don't have torrents. You say as physicians, we should be more honest and have more integrity. Well a lot of people here are talking down to someone else, and as physicians, you guys should have more respect for other people.

Also, for all of those people that say pirating hurts the industry, you should read EK Verbal 101 :D
 

BerkReviewTeach

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First off, no one admitted to stealing. The guy said he bought $60 PDFs and would like to share them. You can buy books online in PDF format, so he may have just bought them assuming it was legal. That's all you can say, you can't criticize him for stealing. Case closed.
Not sure what law school you went to, but you need to get a refund. By admitting he bought a pdf file and now knowing it was stolen property, it becomes a crime to retain the property. But arguing with you is pointless.

And let's say someone does get pirated material, and decides to donate the money they saved to charity. You have no idea what they'll be doing with that money. You can't judge anyone, so get off your high horse. You're not better than anyone just because you guys don't have torrents. You say as physicians, we should be more honest and have more integrity. Well a lot of people here are talking down to someone else, and as physicians, you guys should have more respect for other people.

Also, for all of those people that say pirating hurts the industry, you should read EK Verbal 101 :D
Spin it anyway you want, you are wrong morally and socially. There's a reason why a thread filled with future doctors find thievery unbecoming of a future doctor, sans you of course. If you were the one being stolen from, you'd be singing a different tune. You have no idea how much the company I work for makes, but you've decided it's too much and that it's okay that people are stealing from BR all over the internet. You seem to derive happiness from it in fact.

So if you want to make yourself feel better by saying some of us are on a high horse, that's your prerogative. But that doesn't change the fact that endorsing a criminal act is not a character trait becoming of a physician. I hope the medical school interviewers, should you get to that point, see this side of you.
 

mr chievous

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Pre-Medical
Not sure what law school you went to, but you need to get a refund. By admitting he bought a pdf file and now knowing it was stolen property, it becomes a crime to retain the property. But arguing with you is pointless.



Spin it anyway you want, you are wrong morally and socially. There's a reason why a thread filled with future doctors find thievery unbecoming of a future doctor, sans you of course. If you were the one being stolen from, you'd be singing a different tune. You have no idea how much the company I work for makes, but you've decided it's too much and that it's okay that people are stealing from BR all over the internet. You seem to derive happiness from it in fact.

So if you want to make yourself feel better by saying some of us are on a high horse, that's your prerogative. But that doesn't change the fact that endorsing a criminal act is not a character trait becoming of a physician. I hope the medical school interviewers, should you get to that point, see this side of you.
You're right. Everyone on this thread is a saint and I'm absolutely certain that not a single person has ever downloaded music, or watched a movie, or any kind of TV show online (not talking about Netflix here).

If you think pirated material is what separates the moral doctors from the immoral ones, then I have bad news for you - I guarantee you the majority of the people on these forums use pirated material and are in some way committing immoral acts according to your standards. By the way, the MCAT material you find online shows the number of times it has been downloaded. EK 101 Verbal alone has been downloaded over 5,000 times in the past year. It looks like TBR PDFs first emerged a little over a month ago. I'm sure your company will lose some money in sales, and I'm sorry for that, but don't go on about how people that use pirated material are worse than those that don't. There's a lot more to someone's character than that.

In conclusion, pirating is horrible. Just terrible. I have never done it and will never do it. Just thinking about it makes me tear up. But I'm no better than those that do.
 

Dbate

7+ Year Member
Aug 24, 2009
1,411
81
Status
Pre-Medical
Not sure what law school you went to, but you need to get a refund. By admitting he bought a pdf file and now knowing it was stolen property, it becomes a crime to retain the property. But arguing with you is pointless.



Spin it anyway you want, you are wrong morally and socially. There's a reason why a thread filled with future doctors find thievery unbecoming of a future doctor, sans you of course. If you were the one being stolen from, you'd be singing a different tune. You have no idea how much the company I work for makes, but you've decided it's too much and that it's okay that people are stealing from BR all over the internet. You seem to derive happiness from it in fact.

So if you want to make yourself feel better by saying some of us are on a high horse, that's your prerogative. But that doesn't change the fact that endorsing a criminal act is not a character trait becoming of a physician. I hope the medical school interviewers, should you get to that point, see this side of you.
EXACTLY. All those uninsured patients who can't afford medical services should just go die.

If they can't afford it, then they don't deserve it.
 

Dbate

7+ Year Member
Aug 24, 2009
1,411
81
Status
Pre-Medical
Not sure what law school you went to, but you need to get a refund. By admitting he bought a pdf file and now knowing it was stolen property, it becomes a crime to retain the property. But arguing with you is pointless.
This. One of the clearest signs someone can't form a rational argument is that they resort to personal attacks.

You're a great company representative.

(see what i did there)

EDIT: As a side note, part of the reason I had to buy the pdfs online is because your company has a horrible ordering system. Not mailing to PO Boxes meant I couldn't buy the materials from the company in the first place, as I don't have a residential address because I live on a college campus.

What respectable company doesn't process online orders and doesn't mail to PO Boxes? That's ridiculous.

I didn't have a problem dropping $350 bucks for EK content books and TPR Hyperlearning because I could do it with my debit card and have it mailed to me.


Fix your stupid system.
 
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mr chievous

Removed
Jun 12, 2012
375
4
Texas
Status
Pre-Medical
This. One of the clearest signs someone can't form a rational argument is that they resort to personal attacks.

You're a great company representative.

(see what i did there)

EDIT: As a side note, part of the reason I had to buy the pdfs online is because your company has a horrible ordering system. Not mailing to PO Boxes meant I couldn't buy the materials from the company in the first place, as I don't have a residential address because I live on a college campus.

What respectable company doesn't process online orders and doesn't mail to PO Boxes? That's ridiculous.

I didn't have a problem dropping $350 bucks for EK content books and TPR Hyperlearning because I could do it with my debit card and have it mailed to me.


Fix your stupid system.
:thumbup: :thumbup:

I would expect a lot more professionalism from a TBR representative. We have differing opinions, but I never attacked you personally, so the "arguing with you is pointless" comment wasn't necessary.
 

JohnWetzel

WikiPremed
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Dec 29, 2008
303
32
Atlanta, Georgia
Status
Non-Student
Moral cynicism have strong magnetism. Everyone goes through phases in their life, but this just isn't the way. In the long run an attitude that would permit one to steal is not conducive to your own happiness or the people you interact with. This is not high and mighty hypocrisy, but the straightforward ethical practice of civilized people. I've met and gotten to know many premeds over the years. I strongly believe that most would understand the wrongness of stealing someone's work, and they would not do it, whatever their financial circumstances. They would not justify themselves as specially privileged or find excuses in the failings of others. This is simply the moral maturity of a sane adult, and some find it sooner than others, some never at all. Think about it. TBR course materials don't only exist in terms of your own needs. Those materials have literally tens of thousands of hours of dedicated, highly skilled, specialized work behind them. Eye strain and back-ache. Food on the table. Braces for the the kids and college tuition. The opportunity cost of not doing something else with your life, but trying to do good work for future doctors. Maybe it's normal to see or maybe it's normal not to see the moral dimension here, but my own feeling is that premedical students are for the most part excellent people who do understand.
 
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Dbate

7+ Year Member
Aug 24, 2009
1,411
81
Status
Pre-Medical
Attitudes of moral cynicism have strong magnetism, but everyone goes through phases in their life, and so I hope that folks will reflect and overcome what I just have to say looks to me to be a corrosive outlook. In the long run the kinds of attitudes that allow one to steal will not be conducive to your own happiness or the people you interact with. This is not high and mighty but the straightforward ethical practice of civilized people. I've met and gotten to know many premeds over the years. I know that most understand that it is wrong to steal someone's work, and they would not do it. They would not justify themselves as specially privileged or find excuses in the failings of others. This is simply the moral maturity of a sane adult, and some find it sooner than others, some never at all. Think about it. TBR course materials don't only exist in terms of your own needs. Those materials have literally tens of thousands of hours of dedicated, highly skilled, specialized work behind them. Eye strain and back-ache. Food on the table. Braces for the the kids and college tuition. The opportunity cost of not doing something else with your life, but trying to do good work for future doctors. Maybe it's normal to see or maybe it's normal not to see the moral dimension here, but my own feeling is that premedical students are for the most part excellent people who do understand.
The central argument seems to be that buying books second hand on SDN from another student is not stealing.

But buying books in pdf format second hand from another student who purchased the material from TBR is stealing. That's an illogical argument.

And now that I am done with the books, I offered to give them to the OP for free. I will never use them again. I don't see any dimension of stealing there.

In fact, when I first offered, I told the OP that I would provide them to him if it were not illegal, and BerkeleyReviewTech instantly attacked me for stealing material that I legitimately purchased second hand--which many people do and that is highly legal (every heard of eBay).

A better question is why is it considered stealing to give books away for free, but selling them on SDN is considered legitimate.
 
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Fifty 3rds

tertium quid
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Mar 20, 2009
209
2
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
mr chievous and dbate have no hope of entering medical school. It's blatantly obvious with every retort they offer. Let them prance around the subject behind thinly veiled moral relativism.

We all know who you are: you're the person who doesn't work hard enough and isn't consistent enough to get where you want. If you had to do without any number of things you waste your money on, you could afford these books.

Berkeley Review is not big business, they don't employ slave labor, they don't outsource their jobs, they don't drive other small businesses out of the market. They serve a very small, niche market.

Now go back to your video games and pipe dreams, while the grown men (and women) do real work.
 

JohnWetzel

WikiPremed
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Dec 29, 2008
303
32
Atlanta, Georgia
Status
Non-Student
The central argument seems to be that buying books second hand on SDN from another student is not stealing.

But buying books in pdf format second hand from another student who purchased the material from TBR is stealing. That's an illogical argument.

And now that I am done with the books, I offered to give them to the OP for free. I will never use them again. I don't see any dimension of stealing there.

In fact, when I first offered, I told the OP that I would provide them to him if it were not illegal, and BerkeleyReviewTech instantly attacked me for stealing material that I legitimately purchased second hand--which many people do and that is highly legal (every heard of eBay).

A better question is why is it considered stealing to give books away for free, but selling them on SDN is considered legitimate.
Generally people feel that authors have a right to financially benefit from their work and control the duplication and distribution. There is also the sense that providing protection of this right encourages creativity and development for society as a whole. To protect the rights of authors, the legal concept of the copyright has been developed. The difference in the two cases you mentioned, the transfer of 2nd hand books, or the transfer of a PDF file, is that the second case is a violation of copyright law. It is copying the work and publishing it, which deprives the authors of the right to make a living by that activity. Test prep publishers don't necessarily like the used book market, and they somewhat hurry through editions, in my opinion, to encourage folks to buy new, but the ability to transfer the physical object to another person is part of the benefits of ownership you get when you buy the actual books. That isn't an act of publishing, or duplicating, and isn't a violation of copyright. Although the author doesn't make any additional money in the 2nd hand sale, one could argue that they were originally compensated in the first purchase for the transfer of property rights as well as the physical object. Additionally, everyone in the chain consents and nobody is being taken advantage of.
 
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Dbate

7+ Year Member
Aug 24, 2009
1,411
81
Status
Pre-Medical
Generally people feel that authors have a right to financially benefit from their work and control the duplication and distribution. There is also the sense that providing protection of this right encourages creativity and development for society as a whole. To protect the rights of authors, the legal concept of the copyright has been developed. The difference in the two cases you mentioned, the transfer of 2nd hand books, or the transfer of a PDF file, is that the second case is a violation of copyright law. It is copying the work and publishing it, which deprives the authors of the right to make a living by that activity.
This seems to be more a function anachronistic copyright law more than anything else. In modern society, documents are constantly scanned and the ease of reselling electronic materials--as opposed to physical materials---is a central part of commerce.

There is a false distinction being made here that somehow enables people to morally condemn individuals for engaging in activities that even this site supports (albeit in an ever so slightly different form).
 
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