cheaters

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jackets5

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Wow, im absolutley disgusted. I just finished my Orgo 2 test. I usually sit in the front in one of the corners so there is no chance of even being accused. Today i showed up late and had to sit in the middle of the room. I couldnt believe the amout of people cheating had to be like 33-40% of the class, either had flash cards out, had things written on their hands or just used the neighbors test. This is my first semester at this school and while there was cheating at my other this was at least double the amount of people. There are three kids who i thought were pretty smart they all have like a 90+ average. But all three of them take the test together, then they talk about how they got drunk the night before the test. With three people taking one test it would be sad not to get a 90 and up. I may end up with a B but at least i actually earned it. just needed to vent
 
jackets5 said:
Wow, im absolutley disgusted. I just finished my Orgo 2 test. I usually sit in the front in one of the corners so there is no chance of even being accused. Today i showed up late and had to sit in the middle of the room. I couldnt believe the amout of people cheating had to be like 40-60% of the class, either had flash cards out, had things written on their hands or just used the neighbors test. This is my first semester at this school and while there was cheating at my other this was at least double the amount of people. There are three kids who i thought were pretty smart they all have like a 90+ average. But all three of them take the test together, then they talk about how they got drunk the night before the test. With three people taking one test it would be sad not to get a 90 and up. I may end up with a B but at least i actually earned it. just needed to vent
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good for you! 👍 at least you hav eintegrity. Doesn't the school have an honor code? The ramifications for someone caught cheating at most schools is enough to make them honest. How can the prof not notice if you did? You said you sit in a corner as not to be accusaed; that sounds like the prof looks for and takes action against cheaters.
 
I think when cheating become so commonplace like that, even people who wouldn't normally cheat begin to see it as just part of life and end up doing so anyway. I saw that some in my school. I myself have always been very tempted to cheat, so I make myself sit in a front corner, like you said you do. That way I'm not even tempted. I feel bad that I'm tempted, but I just have to accept that and do my best to avoid those situations.

But yeah, cheating bothers me a lot. People ought to earn their grades.
 
cheaters suck 👎

And i don't know why professors and TAs are so freaking reluctant to take action against cheaters (or at least this is how it seemed at Hopkins).
 
jackets5 said:
Wow, im absolutley disgusted. I just finished my Orgo 2 test. I usually sit in the front in one of the corners so there is no chance of even being accused. Today i showed up late and had to sit in the middle of the room. I couldnt believe the amout of people cheating had to be like 40-60% of the class, either had flash cards out, had things written on their hands or just used the neighbors test. This is my first semester at this school and while there was cheating at my other this was at least double the amount of people. There are three kids who i thought were pretty smart they all have like a 90+ average. But all three of them take the test together, then they talk about how they got drunk the night before the test. With three people taking one test it would be sad not to get a 90 and up. I may end up with a B but at least i actually earned it. just needed to vent
Click to expand...

This was a plague in my O-chem class. I can understand how people think its their only option (the class is overwhelming) but it's sad nonetheless. I know you're supposed to report cheating but I never have. I just make sure my paper is out of sight so I don't risk being associated with it. Maybe that jsut fuels the fire -- dunno.
 
i actually sit in the front because i was accused of cheating at my other school. add the fact im an athlete in a sport that is not known for having the most intelligent people in it. the teacher just sits in the front of the class on his laptop (he is a good guy and teacher). its just annoying since i spent the whole weekend doing a practice MCAT, studying for o-chem and genetics tests. Hell, i could have sliced the studying time by a third if i was to cheat. This further solidifies my opinoin that the MCAT should be weight more heavily than a GPA since you can never know how a GPA is gotten.
 
tigress said:
I think when cheating become so commonplace like that, even people who wouldn't normally cheat begin to see it as just part of life and end up doing so anyway. I saw that some in my school. I myself have always been very tempted to cheat, so I make myself sit in a front corner, like you said you do. That way I'm not even tempted. I feel bad that I'm tempted, but I just have to accept that and do my best to avoid those situations.

But yeah, cheating bothers me a lot. People ought to earn their grades.
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I've felt the same way you do -- especially when I only managed a C and all of the cheaters got A's. Knowing I have my integrity isn't always enough to make me feel better.
 
Yeah, when I took Orgo 1, we all sat down getting ready to take our exam and my professor said, "We had a student this morning (there was another class that took the exam before us) caught for cheating. He handed in his test and failed the exam, the class, and any chance to get into medical school... Don't do it."

Yipers! Don't have to tell me twice! 😉
 
SitraAchra said:
Karma exists. Somewhere along the line, cheaters get f*cked.
Click to expand...

It will eventually. If not on the MCAT, then on the boards.

At schools I've been at, many courses had random assigned seatings or made people sit several seats apart, so you couldn't share a brain with your friends. I suppose if it really bothers you, you could send the prof an anonymous note/email that there was cheating going on, so he might take more preventative measures. Then again, it's probably better to just worry about yourself and your own mastery of the subject matter.
 
jackets5 said:
Wow, im absolutley disgusted. I just finished my Orgo 2 test. I usually sit in the front in one of the corners so there is no chance of even being accused. Today i showed up late and had to sit in the middle of the room. I couldnt believe the amout of people cheating had to be like 40-60% of the class, either had flash cards out, had things written on their hands or just used the neighbors test. This is my first semester at this school and while there was cheating at my other this was at least double the amount of people. There are three kids who i thought were pretty smart they all have like a 90+ average. But all three of them take the test together, then they talk about how they got drunk the night before the test. With three people taking one test it would be sad not to get a 90 and up. I may end up with a B but at least i actually earned it. just needed to vent
Click to expand...

i think you're grossly exaggerating. don't drag my school through the mud.

if this did happen, go see someone about it. don't post it here.
 
I'd report it. Like Law2Doc says, you can send an anonymous email. And you don't need to name names; just tell the prof that you saw cheating and you're concerned. If the prof is interested in doing his job, he should take actions to make it less easy next time. (He should have been paying more attention already; whenever I proctor tests I spend a lot of time watching the students to see if anything sketchy is going on. It's not all that hard to catch, especially when it's as blatant as you describe.)
 
"i think you're grossly exaggerating. don't drag my school through the mud.
if this did happen, go see someone about it. don't post it here."

He's just stating what he say in his Orgo class. What's wrong with that?

I'd report it. Like Law2Doc says, you can send an anonymous email. And you don't need to name names; just tell the prof that you saw cheating and you're concerned. If the prof is interested in doing his job, he should take actions to make it less easy next time. (He should have been paying more attention already; whenever I proctor tests I spend a lot of time watching the students to see if anything sketchy is going on. It's not all that hard to catch, especially when it's as blatant as you describe.)

I think that would be a great idea if there were only a few people he saw cheating. If 40-60% of the class cheated, how's he going to point everyone out?

But whatever no matter what action you take, you're doing better for yourself in the end. You're the kind of doctor that everyone will want; not a bunch of lazy losers who resort to cheating to get good grades. Be proud of maintaining your integrity, and good luck in school 👍
 
no im not grossly exagerating. you can believe it or not but what i said is fairly accurate of the situation that just happened about an hour or two ago. its not an attack on the school as whole just this specific situation. and if you dont think it goes on then you being really naive. im going to send the prof an email from my own account not my school email. think that should be sufficient
 
jackets -
If 40-60% of the class in cheating, there is something seriously wrong going on. Which school do you go to?- cause this kind of thing if you get caught can get you expelled in some places and seriously jeporadize any chance at prof school. I was a TA at one point and it is outrageously easy to see who is cheating during a test. What we normally do is go stand close to the cheater, usually they'll be so scared, they won't dare look over at their neighbor's test 😀. But if it is this many, you should consider sending an anonymous email, as someone has suggested. Or just talk to your TA (if you dont care about the anonymity), they can usually do something about it.

Otherwise, karma has a way of biting them back in the ass. You can laugh when that happens, 😉

Chin up-
Bri
 
the thing is there are no TA's in the class when the test is going on just one professor for a class of about 150 and he was simply on his laptop while we took the test. The number was most likley on the lower end. thinking about it was closer to 33-40% but still outrageous. It may go to explain why the class average on the first two tests has been in the 80's, which i found to be high for Organic
 
Aero047 said:
"i think you're grossly exaggerating. don't drag my school through the mud.
if this did happen, go see someone about it. don't post it here."

He's just stating what he say in his Orgo class. What's wrong with that?
Click to expand...

agreed. he/she said nothing wrong. Cheating is wrong and should not b etolerated. I'm sure it exists much more than most are aware of.
 
Sabrinne said:
jackets -
If 40-60% of the class in cheating, there is something seriously wrong going on. Which school do you go to?- cause this kind of thing if you get caught can get you expelled in some places and seriously jeporadize any chance at prof school. I was a TA at one point and it is outrageously easy to see who is cheating during a test. What we normally do is go stand close to the cheater, usually they'll be so scared, they won't dare look over at their neighbor's test 😀. But if it is this many, you should consider sending an anonymous email, as someone has suggested. Or just talk to your TA (if you dont care about the anonymity), they can usually do something about it.

Otherwise, karma has a way of biting them back in the ass. You can laugh when that happens, 😉

Chin up-
Bri
Click to expand...
yea that';s what i said too; i don't see how people can take that chance nor how profs let them get away with it.
 
jackets5 said:
the thing is there are no TA's in the class when the test is going on just one professor for a class of about 150 and he was simply on his laptop while we took the test. The number was most likley on the lower end. thinking about it was closer to 33-40% but still outrageous. It may go to explain why the class average on the first two tests has been in the 80's, which i found to be high for Organic
Click to expand...

That sucks, I've never heard of a class of 150 with no TAs. Maybe you can talk to the dept about adding TAs. You may just have grading TAs who don't come for the test, but a lot of the time they love making extra money, so if you talk to your professor maybe he'll get the grading TAs to come in for an hour or two. 80s is rather high for Ochem. I was happy if I got a 70 in my class. *sigh* good luck with all this! :luck: :luck:
 
I've never seen that much of my class cheating, but I have seen people doing it. For one, I wouldn't cheat, because there's no guarantee that the other guy has the right answer. :laugh: Seriously though, one of the times I felt most tempted to cheat (the answer was on the tip of my tongue, and I was within view of someone who probably knew the answer), I just reminded myself that it would be unfair to him if he studied more than I did for me to steal his answer.
 
Do you mean cheating by looking at another student's exam or by peaking at your notes?

I recall -- not very fondly, I might add -- that our Orgo II exams were almost all very difficult synthesis problems. Hiding some notes up your sleeve, then, would not help a bit. In fact, I bet they could have allowed the test to be open note, and many people would still have trouble. But I've always considered the act of having a cheat sheet to be more brazen than the occasional glance at your neighbor's paper.

Just curious...
 
oops. just re-read the OP's post more carefully and answered my own question. sorry.
 
well there was alot of people looking at others papers, but some people actually had flash cards in like 2x2's that they put in their palms before the test started. I know if during a synthesis problem if i could a help on a step it sure would help. Im kind of worried about emailing the professor since he could make the tests harder and i dont want to punish myself. probally gonna do it anyway
 
Are you sure the exam wasn't open book? 😀 i'm jk

jackets5 said:
well there was alot of people looking at others papers, but some people actually had flash cards in like 2x2's that they put in their palms before the test started. I know if during a synthesis problem if i could a help on a step it sure would help. Im kind of worried about emailing the professor since he could make the tests harder and i dont want to punish myself. probally gonna do it anyway
Click to expand...
 
lorelei said:
I'd report it. Like Law2Doc says, you can send an anonymous email. And you don't need to name names; just tell the prof that you saw cheating and you're concerned. If the prof is interested in doing his job, he should take actions to make it less easy next time. (He should have been paying more attention already; whenever I proctor tests I spend a lot of time watching the students to see if anything sketchy is going on. It's not all that hard to catch, especially when it's as blatant as you describe.)
Click to expand...


And don't be shocked if your Prof does nothing. I reported cheating while I was taking an engineering class at Hopkins. The Prof said, well, as long as they are all going through the material that's what's important. I had to laugh before I vomitted on his shoes. Dropped the class on the spot.
 
Reckoning said:
And don't be shocked if your Prof does nothing. I reported cheating while I was taking an engineering class at Hopkins. The Prof said, well, as long as they are all going through the material that's what's important. I had to laugh before I vomitted on his shoes. Dropped the class on the spot.
Click to expand...
WOW!!! 😱
 
Reckoning said:
And don't be shocked if your Prof does nothing. I reported cheating while I was taking an engineering class at Hopkins. The Prof said, well, as long as they are all going through the material that's what's important. I had to laugh before I vomitted on his shoes. Dropped the class on the spot.
Click to expand...

ugh. There is sooo much cheating at Hopkins it unbelievable. I've reported cheating before too. Nobody does a damn thing. That's one of the few things I hated about our school.
 
This is the professor's fault almost as much as the students. If there are no consequences for cheating and he doesn't even walk around to try to spot cheaters (and 150 students with only 1 proctor????) then of course people are going to cheat.

I remember in several of my science classes people would try to cheat and get caught. The professor would always make it a point to tell the whole class afterward what happened: how many students had conspired, how they tried to cheat, how they were caught, and what happened to them - usually they failed the class and were reported to the Dean or whoever deals with that stuff. And of course a reminder, if the class was a pre-med (or pre-pharm or whatever) prereq, that getting caught cheating would really kill your app - and a warning that the graders were instructed to look for signs of cheating.

Now, whether any of that was actually true doesn't matter. The point is that the professor has to make it clear that cheating isn't tolerated, make at least a show of trying to prevent and/or catch it, and provide clear consequences for getting caught.

If things at your school are like what people are saying about Hopkins, then that's too bad; there's probably not much you can do other than go over your professor's head and report it to a Dean or someone else like that. Or write an editorial for the school paper. Any way you do it you're bound to make enemies.
 
tinkerbelle said:
ugh. There is sooo much cheating at Hopkins it unbelievable. I've reported cheating before too. Nobody does a damn thing. That's one of the few things I hated about our school.
Click to expand...

I bet the reason is that the professors themselves cheated when they were undergrad students. That is why they are reluctant to punish the students, they know it is not correct to ruin somebody's career and life because they cheated in college.
 
jackets5 said:
Wow, im absolutley disgusted. I just finished my Orgo 2 test. I usually sit in the front in one of the corners so there is no chance of even being accused. Today i showed up late and had to sit in the middle of the room. I couldnt believe the amout of people cheating had to be like 33-40% of the class, either had flash cards out, had things written on their hands or just used the neighbors test. This is my first semester at this school and while there was cheating at my other this was at least double the amount of people. There are three kids who i thought were pretty smart they all have like a 90+ average. But all three of them take the test together, then they talk about how they got drunk the night before the test. With three people taking one test it would be sad not to get a 90 and up. I may end up with a B but at least i actually earned it. just needed to vent
Click to expand...

They earned it too. Collaborate learning is a very important step in absorbing knowledge. Taking test togther is the best way to learn. In the real world, you will be working with other people as a team so I think these guys are one step ahead of us.

See if I don't know an answer to a question, I will just ask my friend. Together, we can get a higher score. Damn, the MCAT should be taken as a team.
 
tinkerbelle said:
ugh. There is sooo much cheating at Hopkins it unbelievable. I've reported cheating before too. Nobody does a damn thing. That's one of the few things I hated about our school.
Click to expand...

Believe me, I feel your pain. Seeing smart kids cheating is just a shame. I have too many Hopkins cheating stories for one post. This particular class I was killing myself to pull an A-, when everyone one around me seemed to be pulling the easy A. Then one day someone accidently jabbed me in the side trying to hand me his cheat sheet while I was taking a test. I guess he was trying to be nice. I gave it back to him in shock (yes, I just fell off a turnip truck).

My second Hopkins story is of being a grader and finding undergrads rooting through my desk to find the HW answer keys. WTF?!! Unfortunately for all you guys that don't cheat, I look at all Hopkin's GPA's with suspicion.
 
Reckoning said:
Believe me, I feel your pain. Seeing smart kids cheating is just a shame. I have too many Hopkins cheating stories for one post. This particular class I was killing myself to pull an A-, when everyone one around me seemed to be pulling the easy A. Then one day someone accidently jabbed me in the side trying to hand me his cheat sheet while I was taking a test. I guess he was trying to be nice. I gave it back to him in shock (yes, I just fell off a turnip truck).

My second Hopkins story is of being a grader and finding undergrads rooting through my desk to find the HW answer keys. WTF?!! Unfortunately for all you guys that don't cheat, I look at all Hopkin's GPA's with suspicion.
Click to expand...


Hopkin's GPA = shady.
 
xadmin said:
Hopkin's GPA = shady.
Click to expand...

I never saw anyone cheat at Hopkins. I think there's a lot of bad stereotypes like the freaks sabotaging other people's labs. If you actually took orgo lab here, you'll know the actual product of the experiments is worth like 4% of the course grade.
 
I don't understand why anyone would waste time complaining here.

We had a similar problem in my physics course, the instructor recycles tests every 4 years - and those who belong to fraternities have his entire source of tests. Those of us who spent hours with the instructor studying the material had a fit when we learned about this. The U made him readminister the test, and provide samples of his past tests to everyone.

You have to fight for fairness.
 
In my economics course, the entire row in front of me was busted for teaching. When the prof handed back the tests, the cheaters recieved a large red note that said, "You've been caught, see me after class." Everyone in the class could see the people getting these red notes. That row was empty the rest of the semester, so I had a nice footrest. 😀
 
I can't even imagine cheating in O Chem. I'd think it'd be more difficult to cheat and not get cavught then just learn the materials! Copying someone's answers on a multiple choice is one thing but drawing and short answers?
 
Without Wax said:
I bet the reason is that the professors themselves cheated when they were undergrad students. That is why they are reluctant to punish the students, they know it is not correct to ruin somebody's career and life because they cheated in college.
Click to expand...

You are probably joking, but truthfully most professors just don't want the hassle. Once you start an administrative action against a student like expulsion from cheating (or even failure of a class) it quickly becomes a whole legal matter, with meetings with the deans, lawyers, administrative hearings -- not what most professors find a fun use of their time. Thus many professors prefer not to look under the rocks to see what might be found there. Ignorance is bliss.
 
To everyone who believes that professors and TAs don't care about cheating: we do care about it. And we do our best to prevent it. That being said, it is extremely difficult to catch every cheater, because there are a couple of hundred students and only a few of us in the room. We just can't be everywhere at once. Also, if we don't catch the cheating students ourselves, we need to have evidence of the cheating to take to the chairman, such as papers with identical wrong answers on them....or a confiscated cheat sheet whose owner can be identified....or classmates of the cheater who are willing to come forward and testify for the record that they witnessed the cheating.

OP, if you really want to do something to stop the cheaters, you will probably need to put what you saw in writing, name names, and sign your name to it. Otherwise, the professor's options are relatively limited unless he catches the cheaters himself on future tests. As others have pointed out, doing this will likely earn you the enmity of your classmates. Only you can decide whether this risk is worth stopping the cheating to you.
 
Cheaters never win, winners never cheat.
 
Obviously, cheating is ethically wrong and violates the student honor code/code of conduct at all american colleges and universities. However, why waste your time caring about dishonest, unethical people in your class? As long as you're not involved or even remotely implicated, you'll be fine. Yes, they might get higher grades than you on the midterm/final...but what goes around comes around. Maybe not this time around, but these people WILL eventually get caught somewhere down the line. And as the posters above me pointed out, the consequences will basically ruin any professional school/graduate school plans.
 
Without Wax said:
I bet the reason is that the professors themselves cheated when they were undergrad students. That is why they are reluctant to punish the students, they know it is not correct to ruin somebody's career and life because they cheated in college.
Click to expand...
yea, i was thinking the same thing...
 
Reckoning said:
Believe me, I feel your pain. Seeing smart kids cheating is just a shame. I have too many Hopkins cheating stories for one post. This particular class I was killing myself to pull an A-, when everyone one around me seemed to be pulling the easy A. Then one day someone accidently jabbed me in the side trying to hand me his cheat sheet while I was taking a test. I guess he was trying to be nice. I gave it back to him in shock (yes, I just fell off a turnip truck).

My second Hopkins story is of being a grader and finding undergrads rooting through my desk to find the HW answer keys. WTF?!! Unfortunately for all you guys that don't cheat, I look at all Hopkin's GPA's with suspicion.
Click to expand...
wow!! so Hopkins is known for cheating? is Hopkins med school like that also?
 
ingamina said:
I don't understand why anyone would waste time complaining here.

We had a similar problem in my physics course, the instructor recycles tests every 4 years - and those who belong to fraternities have his entire source of tests. Those of us who spent hours with the instructor studying the material had a fit when we learned about this. The U made him readminister the test, and provide samples of his past tests to everyone.

You have to fight for fairness.
Click to expand...
👍
 
Psycho Doctor said:
wow!! so Hopkins is known for cheating? is Hopkins med school like that also?
Click to expand...

I've heard that Hopkins med is somewhat reluctant to take its own undergrads.
 
I'm with the "what goes around comes around" camp.

People who cheat and wish to advance their educations will likely suffer on the MCAT or boards or whatever.

People not interested in advancing may not be affected at all.

I personally couldn't care less what other people do or don't do. People will cheat in one form or another- whether in class, on their spouses or on their taxes so what can you do?

I choose not to and that's good enough for me.
Take care of yourself and what you can control.
 
Kazema said:
I've heard that Hopkins med is somewhat reluctant to take its own undergrads.
Click to expand...
now i know why; however the poor honest people who get penalized 🙁
 
There's only one honorable thing to do:

Turn all of them in. Insist that the Honor Code (or whatever it's called at your institution) is enforced. If they get booted, so be it.

If you don't, you're part of the problem.
 
jackets5 said:
Wow, im absolutley disgusted. I just finished my Orgo 2 test. I usually sit in the front in one of the corners so there is no chance of even being accused. Today i showed up late and had to sit in the middle of the room. I couldnt believe the amout of people cheating had to be like 33-40% of the class, either had flash cards out, had things written on their hands or just used the neighbors test. This is my first semester at this school and while there was cheating at my other this was at least double the amount of people. There are three kids who i thought were pretty smart they all have like a 90+ average. But all three of them take the test together, then they talk about how they got drunk the night before the test. With three people taking one test it would be sad not to get a 90 and up. I may end up with a B but at least i actually earned it. just needed to vent
Click to expand...

Before I add in my $.02, I want to tell everyone a stroy.

I was a Computer Science major in college. Before you can start the major, you have to complete CS 101 where you learn to write basic programs and algorithms. In addition to taking tests, you have to write five programs. When you write a program, you cannot give help to or receive help from another student.

In Spring 1999, four CS 101 students put a solution to a particular project on the university intranet. Naturally, other students copied the program and turned it in. When the program went to the graders, one undergraduate TA cought the violations, and despite resistance my the lecturer and some graduate TAs, the violation went to the honor council. 100+ students were convicted; the students who posted the program were expelled.

The fact is, if all the cheating you are talking about is really happening, it is probably time to shake stuff up. If teachers cannot stop cheating, then we must. And charges only hold weight if people name names. I would approach your school's honor council and tell them what is going on. No annonymous notes; just do it. If you don't have an honor council or they do nothing, go to the department chair or the administration. Cajole until something positive happens. You should be able to get into medical with losing your honor.

Make it happen.
 
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