MD Cheating allegations engulf Dartmouth medical school

[CaptainWEMT]

I'm not a Dartmouth student but my dad sent me this article this morning
Cheating allegations engulf Dartmouth medical school - The Boston Globe

TL/DR Some medical students at Dartmouth were accused of cheating because their accounts pinned Canvas during their exams. Some admitted to cheating, others stated that their Canvas apps were background refreshing which caused the pins.

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[Steve_Zissou]

“the medical school released a new social media policy that warned students against disparaging members of the medical school, adding that anonymous posters could be identified.”

I don’t like that part one bit.

 

[Lawpy]

Hm i wasn't expecting students at Dartmouth to cheat but i suppose cheating can happen anywhere

 

[veebo]

Hm i wasn't expecting students at Dartmouth to cheat but i suppose cheating can happen anywhere

There is going to be students at every school in the country that will cheat if given the opportunity. Pandemic online classes gave a lot of those people that chance but some will always be caught.

 

[BluMist]

Several students, however, said they felt coerced into admitting wrongdoing at their judicial hearing because they were told it would help them secure a more favorable outcome with the committee.

I don't think it is THAT clear cut especially if the only evidence school has is that Canvas was somehow accessed on another device (ex. background refresh is not that farfetched with modern phones and websites)

 

[Goro]

I don't think it is THAT clear cut especially if the only evidence school has is that Canvas was somehow accessed on another device (ex. background refresh is not that farfetched with modern phones and websites)

But one is NOT supposed to have another device going during an exam.

"Canvas refreshing"? I don't know about this. There's a difference between your Canvas receiving a new announcement and somehow, magically, the phone went right to the lecture on knee anatomy during the anatomy lecture exam.

This will be interesting to see how it plays out. In the worst case scenario, there will be mass expulsions, or suspensions. You know, the things that don't look good in Dean's Letters.

the medical school released a new social media policy that warned students against disparaging members of the medical school, adding that anonymous posters could be identified.

I wonder if they were reacting to SDN comments????

 

[esu aves]

This same exact situation happened to someone in one of my college classes way back in in like 2015, which was during a test in person. The professor announced to the class that someone was accessing canvas (of course he knew who it was) and that he would confront them at the end of the test. I finished my test and left before that happened, but during the next session, the professor told us that the person actually didn't cheat and it was something to do with canvas.

-It clearly wasn't me but I still couldn't help but think I was somehow accessing canvas even though I wasn't doing anything for some reason

 

[wanderingorion]

the medical school released a new social media policy that warned students against disparaging members of the medical school, adding that anonymous posters could be identified.

I wonder if they were reacting to SDN comments????

I suspect the policy change was prompted after discovery of an anonymous IG account that people were using to talk about this issue

 

[CaptainWEMT]

But one is NOT supposed to have another device going during an exam.

At least at my school, we are encouraged to keep our phones on and readily accessible during an exam so that we can contact our proctor in case our Zoom feed cuts out/we have issues with the NBME browser or Examplify.

 

[jamaica jan sun princess]

I'm not sure if many professors are aware of this, but I can view the exact time and date any of my students access Canvas and which page they viewed. It's easy to tell if a student is navigating through course content during an exam.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

At least at my school, we are encouraged to keep our phones on and readily accessible during an exam so that we can contact our proctor in case our Zoom feed cuts out/we have issues with the NBME browser or Examplify.

Same same.

 

[7331poas]

If a medical school actually distributes punitive action because Canvas said there was activity on the account i hope these students receive the maximum settlement amounts possible.

We always have phones accessible for our exams at my school. And my phone for sure refreshes the current tab list regularly. Who is to say whether one of those 20 tabs had canvas or course material on it.

 

[Gilakend]

Hm i wasn't expecting students at Dartmouth to cheat but i suppose cheating can happen anywhere

I would bet my life at least some students at every single medical school in the country cheat and/or use unprescribed ADHD meds

 

[Steve_Zissou]

I would bet my life at least some students at every single medical school in the country cheat and/or use unprescribed ADHD meds

The amount of people in my medical school class that use ADHD medications is definitely higher than the national average. I am always doubtful of adult-diagnosed ADHD, and it seems to be fairly pervasive in medical school.

 

[deleted1064759]

The amount of people in my medical school class that use ADHD medications is definitely higher than the national average. I am always doubtful of adult-diagnosed ADHD, and it seems to be fairly pervasive in medical school.

It really doesn't help that much though. I have ADHD and adderall isn't a substitute for intrinsic motivation to study. I've had semesters where I did terrible taking adderall and other ones where I did fine completely sober. I also know some frat bros (not in a frat myself) that took the stuff and started procrastinating even harder.

I hear some people use it for dieting, although I'd be careful about getting hooked on the stuff.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

It really doesn't help that much though. I have ADHD and adderall isn't a substitute for intrinsic motivation to study. I've had semesters where I did terrible taking adderall and other ones where I did fine completely sober. I also know some frat bros (not in a frat myself) that took the stuff and started procrastinating even harder.

I hear some people use it for dieting, although I'd be careful about getting hooked on the stuff.

Maybe, maybe not. I can tell you that I’ve had three different classmates brag to me about how they got a diagnosis/how they use the drugs to study. One told me he binges them the week before exams to get less sleep/stay focused. One told me that she ups her dose before exams to do the same. Maybe it’s all placebo, but I’m doubtful that amphetamines don’t help.

 

[Maimonides1]

There is going to be students at every school in the country that will cheat if given the opportunity. Pandemic online classes gave a lot of those people that chance but some will always be caught.

We’ve noticed this since last spring at the beginning of pandemic.., when the average grades for virtual exams went up while our over achievers and none cheaters who suffered from social isolation due to the lack of in person lectures.. left behind !!

 

[Redpancreas]

It really doesn't help that much though. I have ADHD and adderall isn't a substitute for intrinsic motivation to study. I've had semesters where I did terrible taking adderall and other ones where I did fine completely sober. I also know some frat bros (not in a frat myself) that took the stuff and started procrastinating even harder.

I hear some people use it for dieting, although I'd be careful about getting hooked on the stuff.

Maybe, maybe not. I can tell you that I’ve had three different classmates brag to me about how they got a diagnosis/how they use the drugs to study. One told me he binges them the week before exams to get less sleep/stay focused. One told me that she ups her dose before exams to do the same. Maybe it’s all placebo, but I’m doubtful that amphetamines don’t help.

It's my opinion that Psychiatrists hand this out excessively. Medical student A gets told he/she lacks the ability to organize a load of information which is normal. They're advised to see someone who tells them to see someone else who advises them that they have ADHD and puts them on stimulants. Do they help? Yes, they help everyone at least initially. The drug is known for its tachyphylaxis phenomenon though so after some time (weeks) it becomes fairly useless but its side effects include euphoria, a sense of grandiosity, etc. especially when abused so some people stay with it thinking it's helping and exaggerate how much it helps someone. Don't use a drug you're not subscribed or in a manner that was not recommended, folks. It doesn't help and if caught you'll never be able to practice medicine in the U.S.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

It's my opinion that Psychiatrists hand this out excessively. Medical student A gets told he/she lacks the ability to organize a load of information which is normal. They're advised to see someone who tells them to see someone else who advises them that they have ADHD and puts them on stimulants. Do they help? Yes, they help everyone at least initially. The drug is known for its tachyphylaxis phenomenon though so after some time (weeks) it becomes fairly useless but its side effects include euphoria, a sense of grandiosity, etc. especially when abused so some people stay with it thinking it's helping and exaggerate how much it helps someone. Don't use a drug you're not subscribed or in a manner that was not recommended, folks. It doesn't help and if caught you'll never be able to practice medicine in the U.S.

IMO, both under and overprescribed in US. Underprescribed to kids who need it, but are instead shoved to the side and labeled as "problem children." Overprescribed to those who want to game the system and those with pushy parents looking for a pill to fix something they don't like about their children.

 

[Goro]

At least at my school, we are encouraged to keep our phones on and readily accessible during an exam so that we can contact our proctor in case our Zoom feed cuts out/we have issues with the NBME browser or Examplify.

I submit that there's a difference between having your phone on and it actively connected to Canvas.

I'm not savvy on the granular details of being able to see what your Canvas is actually doing, but if the above posters' comments are correct, then there are indeed ways of seeing if the Canvas account was merely updating, or the students were accessing Canvas content, and thus Dartmouth's accusations may have more merit than you think.

 

[CaptainWEMT]

I submit that there's a difference between having your phone on and it actively connected to Canvas.

I'm not savvy on the granular details of being able to see what your Canvas is actually doing, but if the above posters' comments are correct, then there are indeed ways of seeing if the Canvas account was merely updating, or the students were accessing Canvas content, and thus Dartmouth's accusations may have more merit than you think.

I'd personally like more information before I determine if the accusations have merit.

 

[8YearsLate]

IMO, both under and overprescribed in US. Underprescribed to kids who need it, but are instead shoved to the side and labeled as "problem children." Overprescribed to those who want to game the system and those with pushy parents looking for a pill to fix something they don't like about their children.

I work with kids, about 1/4 of whom are diagnosed ADHD. Most of them ARE prescribed the meds they need, but often times the parents take them for themselves or sell them. Then we deal with the consequences of managing unmedicated students all day. It's a huge problem and I always advocate for school administration of the medication (excellent results in these cases) but the parents who are taking the meds obviously fight tooth and nail against this. When I worked at a high-SES school, I sometimes saw examples of the pushy parents you mentioned who couldn't accept that their child was not a prodigy, or simply needed a little tutoring, and pushed the ADHD diagnosis through to get meds. This was particularly sad because children without ADHD react to stimulants the way you might expect - agitation, anorexia, ticks, etc. I had one student whose teeth I could hear grinding from the front of the room. I believe there needs to be a significant period of professional observation before prescribing these meds, both for children and adults.

 

[Goro]

I'd personally like more information before I determine if the accusations have merit.

1000% agreed

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Of course we'd all like more info. But the school is unlikely to share it. Everything in the article is from the student perspective, and honestly their explanations seem hollow. I'm no expert, but if your phone is really connected to Canvas but you're not using it -- it's "asleep" or you're using another app -- does it really ping anything? I guess it might, but probably not. Even if so, then it should only be pinging a single page. As already mentioned, Canvas logs all page views so they should be able to tell easily. From the article, multiple people have admitted it. The highlighted story in the article says that the person is having second thoughts about acknowledging the issue -- it's vague about whether they cheated and now feel they should have denied it, or whether they didn't but felt pressured to do so.

There's a comment that a student had 90 seconds to make their case. I hope that's not really true, there's no reason why students shouldn't be given 5-15 minutes or so. But again, we only have the student's side of the story.

If you're going to use your phone during an exam, then you should close all the non-exam related tabs and apps. Randomly having a canvas tab open on your phone while taking an exam seems unacceptable to me. It's like mistakenly leaving some of your notes on the floor under your desk where you can see them -- sure, it might be a mistake, but looks shady.

 

[Lawpy]

Of course we'd all like more info. But the school is unlikely to share it. Everything in the article is from the student perspective, and honestly their explanations seem hollow. I'm no expert, but if your phone is really connected to Canvas but you're not using it -- it's "asleep" or you're using another app -- does it really ping anything? I guess it might, but probably not. Even if so, then it should only be pinging a single page. As already mentioned, Canvas logs all page views so they should be able to tell easily. From the article, multiple people have admitted it. The highlighted story in the article says that the person is having second thoughts about acknowledging the issue -- it's vague about whether they cheated and now feel they should have denied it, or whether they didn't but felt pressured to do so.

There's a comment that a student had 90 seconds to make their case. I hope that's not really true, there's no reason why students shouldn't be given 5-15 minutes or so. But again, we only have the student's side of the story.

If you're going to use your phone during an exam, then you should close all the non-exam related tabs and apps. Randomly having a canvas tab open on your phone while taking an exam seems unacceptable to me. It's like mistakenly leaving some of your notes on the floor under your desk where you can see them -- sure, it might be a mistake, but looks shady.

Weirdly enough, it's because of the student's side of the story that i think the school's investigation on the cheating is justified. Because the student's explanations make it sound like the school is authoritarian who doesn't know how to use technology which is hard to believe, and i say that knowing how some admins can be awful

 

[7331poas]

From the article, multiple people have admitted it.

True, but we know from criminal justice that confessions aren't worth much. If the school is pressuring for confessions with the promise of leniency, then students may feel like their chance at due process is lower than the upswing of a simple confession.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Hm i wasn't expecting students at Dartmouth to cheat but i suppose cheating can happen anywhere

Cheating can happen anywhere, and it's not limited to just students.

Back in 2012, this was huge news: Radiologists who cheat on their board exams: Who's to blame?

 

[WAMCBURNER]

I'll admit I don't know much about the organization who published it but I thought this was an interesting read on the issue.

Proctoring Tools and Dragnet Investigations Rob Students of Due Process​

 

[Goro]

I'll admit I don't know much about the organization who published it but I thought this was an interesting read on the issue.

Proctoring Tools and Dragnet Investigations Rob Students of Due Process​

the article is pretty much parroting with the Dartmouth students have said.

And due process? Professional schools are not courts of law.

 

[deleted555445]

Reading the Dartmouth article and getting stressed....

Disclaimer: I'm not a student anywhere at the moment, its just a joke.

 

[NicMouse64]

My school maintained in-person, proctored exams throughout COVID. With these allegations, I'm actually kinda glad they did. I know the technical intricacies of what the students are talking about and it is indeed possible that the canvas page being left open and then repushed to the backend server recording access could be misconstrued as cheating.

 

[Nugester]

My school maintained in-person, proctored exams throughout COVID. With these allegations, I'm actually kinda glad they did. I know the technical intricacies of what the students are talking about and it is indeed possible that the canvas page being left open and then repushed to the backend server recording access could be misconstrued as cheating.

Ditto.

 

[Banco]

Looks like some students were accused and then exonerated (there were multiple such cases) - here is a time stamp from one of the students during the town hall. The way the school went about this was totally unacceptable. Basically a kangaroo court the coerced students into admitting guilt without understanding the Canvas data fully.

The reddit post here goes into far more detail about the data the school used:

"Students were given less than 48 hours to assemble and submit evidence to defend against the accusations, which none of them understood or could explain on their own. The independent technical analysis that ultimately uncovered the automatic update behavior was not commissioned by the school, but by certain students at their own expense; the school has repeatedly refused to bring in any independent experts to validate their accusations. And while the CSPC ultimately acknowledged that much of the log data upon which they had based their investigation was generated automatically, they only only dismissed the accusations against the specific students who had the means to obtain independent analysis proving this point, even though the broader principle should have exonerated virtually all of the targeted students."

Incredible stuff really.

 

[Cornfed101]

Reading this thread made me realize that my schools remote testing procedures are no where near as strict as other schools... hadn’t even crossed my mind to cheat, but we can take bathroom breaks, we are zoomed into our phones with ExamSoft on our computers, but they can’t see our computer screens. I bet a lot of my classmates are cheating

 

[7331poas]

snip

The policies that school uses sound similar to those at my school. Why are administrators across the county so scared of students having legal representation and the ability to call witnesses during professionalism proceedings? Perhaps because admins know their accusations often would not hold up to argument?

I am also delighted to see that this case is getting attention from the big players. The video Barco posted is hosted by the Electronic Frontier Foundation. I hope they can bring attention to this problem that students face across the country.

Proctoring Tools and Dragnet Investigations Rob Students of Due Process

In March, Dartmouth’s Committee on Student Performance and Conduct (CSPC) accused several students of accessing restricted materials online during exams. These accusations were based on a flawed review of an entire year’s worth of the students’ log data from Canvas, the online learning platform...

www.eff.org

FIRE objects to Dartmouth med school social media crackdown amid cheating controversy

Students complained online about how the Geisel School handled cheating allegations. Days later, the school unveiled a restrictive new social media policy.

www.thefire.org

 

[djiboutiman]

Reading this thread made me realize that my schools remote testing procedures are no where near as strict as other schools... hadn’t even crossed my mind to cheat, but we can take bathroom breaks, we are zoomed into our phones with ExamSoft on our computers, but they can’t see our computer screens. I bet a lot of my classmates are cheating

My schools just does ExamSoft with no video proctoring/monitoring whatsoever. Our class average is around a 3.8 I think. I’m curious what it will be next year when we all go back to in-person tests.

 

[zorcandpals]

Reading this thread made me realize that my schools remote testing procedures are no where near as strict as other schools... hadn’t even crossed my mind to cheat, but we can take bathroom breaks, we are zoomed into our phones with ExamSoft on our computers, but they can’t see our computer screens. I bet a lot of my classmates are cheating

I'm almost certain that examsoft is collecting information on what sort of apps you have open on your computer even if it doesnt show what is exactly on your screen

 

[Cornfed101]

I'm almost certain that examsoft is collecting information on what sort of apps you have open on your computer even if it doesnt show what is exactly on your screen

ExamSoft closes everything on your desktop, but the proctors just give you the password and expect you to start right away. I could just not start the test and write out a bunch of notes acting like I’ve started the test... haha I have thought about this a bit in case you hadn’t noticed

 

[8YearsLate]

What stops someone from having an entirely different computer open in front of the computer they're taking a test on? This really all goes back to the old adage "Don't make rules you can't enforce." Surely these schools knew that when they went remote, they'd have students wearing sweatpants, vaping during "class," and CHEATING. Integrity, unfortunately, is not a check-box on graduate school admissions. Seems to me like a parent spanking a child for stealing a cookie they left on a plate in front of them.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

What stops someone from having an entirely different computer open in front of the computer they're taking a test on? This really all goes back to the old adage "Don't make rules you can't enforce." Surely these schools knew that when they went remote, they'd have students wearing sweatpants, vaping during "class," and CHEATING. Integrity, unfortunately, is not a check-box on graduate school admissions. Seems to me like a parent spanking a child for stealing a cookie they left on a plate in front of them.

Yeah we have zoom proctored exams. Have to be able to see you, your workspace, and the screen. You also have to show them the whole room before you start so they know you don’t have stuff around or someone else giving you answers.

 

[NeedSomeAdviceGuy]

I know cheating has been rampant at my school.

It's a P/F curriculum, and at the end of the day they're burning themselves when they cut these corners. Sure is still frustrating though, of course.

 

[Ho0v-man]

There was apparently quite a bit of cheating at my school pre pandemic. I can only imagine how bad it is now.

Really feel for the fools that are going to go into M2 never learning how to study.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

There was apparently quite a bit of cheating at my school pre pandemic. I can only imagine how bad it is now.

Really feel for the fools that are going to go into M2 never learning how to study.

Yeah these people will just look really stupid come rotations.

 

[NeedSomeAdviceGuy]

Yeah these people will just look really stupid come rotations.

Yup, the year that matters most they'll be less prepared for

 

[Med Ed]

Why are administrators across the county so scared of students having legal representation and the ability to call witnesses during professionalism proceedings?

Cuz it's way more fun to involve legal representation during the actual lawsuit phase of the proceedings. Then both sides get to lawyer up.

 

[Nugester]

Apparently, it ended with 3 expulsions....

 

[operaman]

While I don’t condone cheating, I do feel that the school is partly at fault for writing crappy exams that would actually reward cheating. Write good questions that integrate the material, require critical thinking, and give a time limit that precludes them looking something up.

Step 1 for instance - I could have carried my First Aid in the exam and it wouldn’t have changed my score at all and might have even made it lower. For all the security, even if a cheater finds a way they’re still going to be spending 2-3x as long per question and will inevitably leave some unanswered, making their cheating a net neutral at best.

 

[Banco]

The policies that school uses sound similar to those at my school. Why are administrators across the county so scared of students having legal representation and the ability to call witnesses during professionalism proceedings? Perhaps because admins know their accusations often would not hold up to argument?

Yes. Their procedures and methods would not hold up to any half decent actual court of law. We’ve seen it time and again - schools having these hearings when they hold a disproportionate amount of power, having already made their mind up, and then saying “just admit it and we’ll go easy on you.” In this case they were easily willing to ruin the careers of 7 students based off of what? Their own IT department was too incompetent to understand the data. I’m glad they were humiliated and had to exonerate the students - and I’m extra glad it’s coming to light. School administrators need to understand that these types of things have potential to ruin lives academically and financially.

I’m sure there are students who cheat even in medical school, but you can’t just blanket go out and paint 17 of your students as cheaters without verified evidence and at least a half decent attempt at due process.

I feel incredibly bad for the students that were accused when they knew they did nothing wrong at all. Complete power tripping behavior. We obviously still need more details but if the school was forced to overturn judgment for so many of the students, then they massively ****ed up somewhere, even if they caught a few actual cheaters.

 

[Trooper32]

I've sat on quite a few hearings regarding canvas cheating this past year in my college - it is pretty cut and dry. It shows exactly what you opened/looked at/downloaded. Students have the files downloaded, but I've seen a number of cases of them still opening canvas because they didn't realize it was being tracked. No, Jimmy, canvas did not automatically refresh and open two folders and download powerpoint 32.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

just wondering, what is Canvas?