Check-in post for non-trad advice :)

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Apologies in advance for the novel, I just read this back and realized how long it is. Big thanks to anyone that actually reads this monster! Appreciate you all! 🙂

tl;dr, I was admittedly very mediocre during undergrad due to undiagnosed depression, got my life together and am now very successful in my current career and all academic pursuits since then. Looking for advice as a 27 yo planning to apply 2023-2024 cycle, see stats and more specific questions bolded at the bottom.



Frankly, I was very immature and had no idea what I wanted to do with my life the first time around the block, so I put in the bare minimum of effort. I started college at 17 and graduated just after turning 20 with a double major in two completely unrelated fields. There were a few times I actually forgot to show up to campus for exams, I was so checked out. I ended up graduating with a ~3.3 GPA with just one or two science classes (thank god for that). I never got anything below a B-, but a majority of my grades were in the B- to B+ range. I now realize that I was likely dealing with undiagnosed depression due to being an extremely closeted transgender gay person, and believing that my conservative family would never accept me.

I spent a gap year living as far away from my family as humanly possibly working menial jobs while basically growing up, getting my adult life together, and coming out. I started a MS degree and transitioned to my new gender the year after. Starting my transition turned my life around completely; everything got so much better, especially after my family had time to absorb my coming out and eventually express support. I went from getting peer feedback of negative personality, not fun to be around, etc, to glowing recommendations and leadership offers on almost every project I worked on. I graduated from my MS degree (very niche field unrelated to medicine) with a ~3.9 grad GPA and "Best In Show" and "Most Innovative" accolades from that industry's most important conference for a project that I was lead designer on.

I worked in this field for two years, then moved to a similar field (software engineering) and continued to rack up small awards and promotions: Employee of the Months, yearly promotions/raises, and leading department-wide additional duties like putting together an internship program, holding lunch and learns, etc. I was made team lead after about three years of work which is very quick in this industry, albeit at a small no-name company. As a software engineer, I have worked at two medical-related companies, which started the thought of medicine in my head.

I started taking 1-3 classes per semester starting in Summer 2020, and should finish up the chem sequence Fall 2022. I currently have a ~3.35 cGPA and ~3.7 sGPA, and am trending to finish somewhere around a ~3.45 cGPA and ~3.8 sGPA at my local CC. Unfortunately, the local uni does not allow second degree or postbacc students to take up slots in high demand courses like premed prereqs and I don't intend to take upper levels unless I have an unsuccessful first cycle. Until this April, I was working between 60 and 100 hours per week between my full time software job, teaching software part-time, and doing a freelance project here and there, which didn't leave a ton of time for premed stuff other than classes. However, I ended up getting laid off and have since leaned heavily into catching up.

I do intend to continue participating in the LGBT crisis line, but will probably cease the other volunteering stuff at the end of next summer to focus on research and shadowing. I am currently planning a 2023-2024 first cycle. Overall, my current stats and involvements by end of Fall 2022 are trending to look like:

Profile:
- FL resident
- White, very LGBTQ+
- cGPA: ~3.45 (~3.3 UG, ~3.8 PB)
- sGPA: ~3.8 (all but one class PB)
- gradGPA: ~3.9
- MCAT: no idea on this yet, I know this is a very important stat but I've got a few chem classes to go. I've already started working on the popular Anki decks, then intend to spend 3 months studying full-time and do a fancy prep course. I will delay the exam if I'm not averaging at least 510 on practices.

Work:
- Software Engineer / prior niche career field: ~10k hours
- Software Engineering Instructor: ~3k hours
- Small Business Owner: ~1k hours

Clinical volunteering:
- LGBT crisis line: ~225 hours over 1.5 years
- Hospital volunteering: ~200 hours over 1 year
- Respite care for a family friend with MS: 70 hours over a summer

Non-clinical volunteering:
- Epilepsy Camp: 50 hours over a summer
- Planned Parenthood phone/text banking: not sure on this one as it's a non-regular commitment, maybe 50ish hours over 1 year
- Civil Air Patrol: ~150 hours of meetings / teaching cadets about engineering and aeronautics over 1.5 years; planning to help with hurricane season deployments next summer, not sure how many hours that will be

Fun stuff:
- Pilot training: ~50 hours
- Musical hobby with community groups: ~2.5k hours since freshman year of high school, ~1.5k since graduating high school
- Niche nerd hobby: ~1k hours during undergrad, 1 of 20 people to get a fully paid trip to participate in a national conference that helped shape the national collegiate governing body

Red/Yellow Flags:
- 0 research with no concrete plans currently; just haven't had time for this yet tbh.
- 0 shadowing; not having any luck with the ~25 physicians I've contacted so far. I did ~20 hours virtual shadowing earlier during COVID but I heard that this is useless.
- W in Calculus Spring 2021 when I was burning 100+ hour weeks at the startup that laid me off. I withdrew pretty early after realizing the work situation, but it was unfortunately just past the deadline to drop without having a W. I suck at math so I figured a W is better than a C or worse.

Now that you know my life story, here are my questions:

1) What caliber of schools should I be considering at this juncture? Being that I have such a big dip between my cGPA and sGPA, I'm a bit confused on what schools will consider my academic ability to be.
2) How do old guys get research and shadowing experience? I am seriously at a loss, with ~50 unsuccessful requests between various local uni labs and physicians. I've asked this before but tbh the stuff people suggested didn't work for me. Would love some more thoughts.
3) Is shadowing a hard requirement? I'm honestly getting concerned that I won't be able to find a physician willing to let me shadow. My local health system isn't allowing shadowing until at least next year still due to COVID and there will be a backlog of current undergrad students that will likely get priority over me as the health system is associated with the school. No private practice doctors have even rung me back yet after ~3 months of calling various places around town.
4) Should I get a paid clinical position to continue accruing experience once my stint at the hospital volunteering program has run its course? Not sure if a few hundred hours of hospital and crisis line is enough, but I already have several meaningful experiences that have affirmed my choice in pursuing medicine.
5) I do intend to work full-time as a software engineer again after I finish my coursework to pay off the rest of my consumer debt and save for the first year of med school living expenses. Is that going to be an issue as long as I continue doing 1-2 shifts a week of something premed-ey?
6) Is there anything else I ought to be doing or have missed?

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[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Bump

 

[tina_b]

Hi from a fellow non-trad! I'm 30 and applying for this cycle. I def think focusing on holistic review schools will help with the GPA discrepancy, but general upward trend of course looks good.

From what other folks have told me while I've been applying - non-trad applications with good work and leadership experiences really stand out in a positive way while applying. I think that can overcome the earlier GPA, but I admittedly am not as well-studied on med school admissions as many people on these boards.

In terms of research - have you tried reaching out to people beyond your area? Do you have data analysis skills (SAS/STATA/JMP)? That has been a huge bargaining chip for me when approaching people to do research - I can code/crunch the numbers for whatever projects they want to do but don't have the time/ability to do the analysis. I also have typically done it for free.

Other than that, I think your plan for the MCAT is good - if you smash that, it'll take some heat off the lower GPA. I ended up studying for 6 months but also went in with a weak science foundation. Anyway, hope this is helpful. Feel free to DM me if you want to discuss more.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Thanks for your reply! I do not have a ton of data analysis skills as I've been a designer and web dev, but my partner is a data analyst so maybe he can help me out in that regard. I do know some Python and how to set up pipelines, etc, so maybe that wouldn't be too much of a reach for me. I don't mind doing it for free either.

How did you do on your MCAT? My undergrad majors were both liberal arts so I'm really starting from zero with my postbac. Hopefully 3 months is good enough but I'd really love to aim for a 515 or so. I've always been a really good test taker with SAT and GRE, so hopefully some of those skills translate haha.

 

[gyngyn]

We cannot address question 1 without an MCAT, I'm afraid.
When you have one, you may post here: What Are My Chances? WAMC Medical

 

[tina_b]

Thanks for your reply! I do not have a ton of data analysis skills as I've been a designer and web dev, but my partner is a data analyst so maybe he can help me out in that regard. I do know some Python and how to set up pipelines, etc, so maybe that wouldn't be too much of a reach for me. I don't mind doing it for free either.

How did you do on your MCAT? My undergrad majors were both liberal arts so I'm really starting from zero with my postbac. Hopefully 3 months is good enough but I'd really love to aim for a 515 or so. I've always been a really good test taker with SAT and GRE, so hopefully some of those skills translate haha.

JMP is super easy but you could also probably self-teach STATA with your background.

My goal was also 515 and I got it! It was brutal to get there though, but again, I had a really weak science background (my timeline basically made it so that I took the MCAT before I took OChem or a bunch of physics.) I used Blueprint's online course plus a tutor from them.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Oh wow, you're brave for taking it prior to finishing the pre-reqs. I'm planning on finishing them all first, so I think the 3 months full time after having gone through the recommended curriculum will hopefully be good enough.

Let me know how the cycle goes for you, I will be sending good vibes in your direction. 🙂

 

[nontrad-med]

Postbacc: NYU vs. UCLA extension vs. Loras College? (or more?!)​

Hi all,

I've been heavily debating which postbacc program I should begin in the fall. For reference, my uGPA is 3.09 and my science GPA (general chemistry, plus 2/3 of the general bio series) is around a 2.6-2.8. I will be retaking general chemistry and biology. I only got into 1 formal program at NYU. My other option is to take classes through UCLA extension and do a DIY postbacc. I also see that the application for Loras College's postbacc is still open, but I haven't heard much about that program. It's newer and started in 2017.

NYU's program tuition will cost $74.5k for a 2 year program, and I'll have to add on a bunch more for rent and living expenses. They're only offering me $7k in financial aid per year, so I'd have to take out $110k in PRIVATE loans, more or less (but most likely more). They have linkages, structure, and I'd have access to all of NYU's undergraduate resources. I'd also have access to their premed advising and their committee letter. Classes are taken with undergraduates. Postbaccs also get priority registration.

UCLA extension's DIY program is unstructured, and you pay as you go. It's much cheaper (the program will cost me about $17,000) but I don't live nearby so I'd be moving to that area. It would take me 2 years to complete this program. I guess more pros are that I'll be nearby UCLA health and can possibly get involved with a UCLA professor's research. I wouldn't need to take out any loans for this program.

Loras College's postbacc application is also still open and it looks like a pretty great option. It's a formal postbacc, from what I understand. Has anyone enrolled in or completed this program? It seems new, since I can't find much information about it. It seems way more affordable than NYU and the rent nearby is relatively cheap too. Per their website, they have a committee LOR, it's 12 months, has small class sizes, admits 5-10 students each cycle, has application guidance, MCAT guidance, 2 hospitals nearby, and would cost about $28,000 (or a bit more). Their financial aid situation also seems more helpful, claiming that students will receive $12,500 if they've never borrowed loans before.

These are program links:
NYU: Program
UCLA: Pre-Medical and General Science Studies | UCLA Continuing Education Online
Loras College: Postbaccalaureate Premedical Program | Loras College

Let me know your thoughts and what you think makes the most sense to do! If anyone has any other options, I'm open to hearing them. My goal is to start this fall.

 

[Nontrad_FL_LGBT]

Postbacc: NYU vs. UCLA extension vs. Loras College? (or more?!)​

Hi all,

I've been heavily debating which postbacc program I should begin in the fall. For reference, my uGPA is 3.09 and my science GPA (general chemistry, plus 2/3 of the general bio series) is around a 2.6-2.8. I will be retaking general chemistry and biology. I only got into 1 formal program at NYU. My other option is to take classes through UCLA extension and do a DIY postbacc. I also see that the application for Loras College's postbacc is still open, but I haven't heard much about that program. It's newer and started in 2017.

NYU's program tuition will cost $74.5k for a 2 year program, and I'll have to add on a bunch more for rent and living expenses. They're only offering me $7k in financial aid per year, so I'd have to take out $110k in PRIVATE loans, more or less (but most likely more). They have linkages, structure, and I'd have access to all of NYU's undergraduate resources. I'd also have access to their premed advising and their committee letter. Classes are taken with undergraduates. Postbaccs also get priority registration.

UCLA extension's DIY program is unstructured, and you pay as you go. It's much cheaper (the program will cost me about $17,000) but I don't live nearby so I'd be moving to that area. It would take me 2 years to complete this program. I guess more pros are that I'll be nearby UCLA health and can possibly get involved with a UCLA professor's research. I wouldn't need to take out any loans for this program.

Loras College's postbacc application is also still open and it looks like a pretty great option. It's a formal postbacc, from what I understand. Has anyone enrolled in or completed this program? It seems new, since I can't find much information about it. It seems way more affordable than NYU and the rent nearby is relatively cheap too. Per their website, they have a committee LOR, it's 12 months, has small class sizes, admits 5-10 students each cycle, has application guidance, MCAT guidance, 2 hospitals nearby, and would cost about $28,000 (or a bit more). Their financial aid situation also seems more helpful, claiming that students will receive $12,500 if they've never borrowed loans before.

These are program links:
NYU: Program
UCLA: Pre-Medical and General Science Studies | UCLA Continuing Education Online
Loras College: Postbaccalaureate Premedical Program | Loras College

Let me know your thoughts and what you think makes the most sense to do! If anyone has any other options, I'm open to hearing them. My goal is to start this fall.

Hey friend, you posted in my thread instead of making a post. Def prob want to redo this.


That said, I'd probably go with the UCLA or Loras option. $100k+ is not even close to worth it, you're not getting into NYU even if you get a 4.0 in the postbac. With your current grades it'll probably come out to a 3.0 or so, which is basically the minimal cutoff point to not get auto-screened by most schools. NYU's average matriculant has 3.8 - 3.9ish sGPA.