Checking in cell phones before exams to prevent cheating?

[The_Sunny_Doc]

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I've got the bird's eye view on this.

Ha, and here we forget the great equalizer. Step 1 and Step 2.
So whatever cheating is happening, there's quality control on the licensing of physicians.
No one is passing both that doesn't know enough to *begin* training, assuming they have also passed all clinical rotations at an accredited school.
You can't cheat the whole system.
An attorney just said to me, "You passed one of the most rigorous educational experiences in this country, and one of the most difficult and comprehensive of licensing exams in the world."

Cheaters or not, eventually they will have to pay the pied piper and meet the standards, which are too complex and numerous to be cheated through.

Now, that's knowledge base. As far as ethical behavior and such, again, it's hard to be a total incompetent tool that shouldn't treat patients and make it through 2 years of clinicals AND 3-7 years of residency. The plug can be pulled on you at any time before board certification.

After that, it's tougher. We still catch bad docs. And we still have bad docs slip through the cracks, our profession's "Jeffrey Dahmers" if you will.

Still, the concern with test scores becomes more and more ridiculous the further into training you get. You find that aside from being a tool and measure for knowing what you need to know for your job, (and residency placement), they are meaningless and cheating on a test questions regarding reading an EKG is not going to save your ****ing ass in the ICU while a patient codes. Others will be able to tell that your inability to read that EKG prevented you from doing the right thing. If you have a soul and are the OCD cheater, this will weigh on you. If you're a **** up in other ways, this could end you. If you're otherwise a good employee, you can continue, perhaps watched more closely than ever.

If the cheating is this bad, I am more worried that the school will have a wake up call in the form of failed steps. Maybe they can just study to the Step and pass. Or, students go out for VSAS and word is spread the graduates don't know what 4th years should know. Or, assuming the luck holds and they match, the grads will give the school a bad name, which will spread like wildfire amongst risk-averse PDs. Carribbean, anyone??

More than likely, it will not get this bad for the entire school.

I appreciate your perspective. 🙂 Thanks for giving us a preview of what lies ahead in terms of requirements.

A few students reported the behavior. We'll see what transpires, but I feel better knowing that people cheating the system will eventually face the music. There are so many opportunities to fail in our future, lol.

This is why I recommend with all seriousness sturdy absorbent incontinence pads or diapers. There's nothing like knowing you *can* **** yourself and continue test-taking with total dignity, to ease anxiety over pissing yourself affecting your exam score.

 

[libertyyne]

Are there schools that really prevent you from going to the bathroom during exams ? I would have to invest in adult diapers.i even went to the bathroom during my MCAT .

 

[Azete]

This is why I recommend with all seriousness sturdy absorbent incontinence pads or diapers. There's nothing like knowing you *can* **** yourself and continue test-taking with total dignity, to ease anxiety over pissing yourself affecting your exam score.

From experience my bladder isn't usually the problem -- I'm usually pretty smart about my fluid/caffeine intake. But when you combine test anxiety + poor dietary habits from studying, it's a recipe for disaster. I'm not sure how a diaper would help in that situation other than to keep your clothes somewhat clean. Everyone would still know you **** yourself from the smell.

 

[Crayola227]

From experience my bladder isn't usually the problem -- I'm usually pretty smart about my fluid/caffeine intake. But when you combine test anxiety + poor dietary habits from studying, it's a recipe for disaster. I'm not sure how a diaper would help in that situation other than to keep your clothes somewhat clean. Everyone would still know you **** yourself from the smell.

During the MCAT or Steps, you could at least finish the block, and then get cleaned up during break before continuing. At least that was my plan if I had needed to wet myself. That's pretty easy to change/clean. Crap is harder but still workable. Nothing like sitting in a wet shart to break your concentration.

In med school, it would be interesting to see how a school with a strict bathroom policy would react with such obvious physical exam findings. Do they allow you to use the restroom to clean up, or just make you continue? The hilarity is that I know med schools are this uptight and vindictive about policy and student biological needs.

I'm *almost* the sort of dingus to have purposefully tested this out as a form of "can't be proven to be" protest in med school, had this been a policy and I felt particularly bitter and wanted to make a statement.

Of course, if your school's chairs are "plush" and fixed in place as some are, perhaps the better statement is made NOT wearing a diaper... and letting the creative juices of change flow.

The diaper would still help you like you said. You still gotta get home, don't you? A lot of students at my school rode public transport, so maybe it wouldn't matter.

 

[OnePunchBiopsy]

Wow that's hot. I might not make it back to the test though.

No worries. I'm sure even if the tests were 5 minutes long you'd make it back with 4 minutes to spare.

 

[hello1234!]

Myself and a few other classmates are suspicious that people in our class are using their cell phones to cheat during bathrooms breaks during our exams. There were also rumors that the class below paid for cell phone pictures of all the exam answers from review sessions from the previous year, passed along from a current second year. We've heard these practices are common at a lot of medical schools. Would having students check in cell phones for the duration of the test and test review sessions be reasonable, or is it over reaching? The issues of grades doesn't bother me, but the fact that we have a class rank that can help or hurt us is concerning.

Another situation that arose involved a student would who come early to write notes on his allotted sheet of paper--formulas and diagrams and high yield facts to use on the test.

What policies do you have in place to prevent cheating at your school?

Hhmmmm... So you are suggesting that a med school should confiscate an adult learners cell phone for the duration of a test? That is seriously over reaching ... ... Like seriously ... ... Frankly, don't worry about anyone else, make sure u ace the material for the step and you'll be fine.

 

[68PGunner]

Why the hell would you do this when you're only to get boned on Step 1 anyway? This is utterly stupid to the power of infinity.

 

[MSTPlease]

Amazing to read stuff like this while my school has us take (pre-clinical) exams online at some point during the weekend in the comfort of our homes. Shelf exams are in house on school provided computers. I think we're supposed to turn in everything but I keep my phone on me and just turn it off - mainly so I don't get distracted by social media or a news alert if I go to the bathroom.

 

[Bancrofti]

You guys are focusing on pre-clinical. On my last exam of third year it dawned on me that people could literally go through a majority of their shelf, leave the room, look up a few quick things while they're in the bathroom, then come back and fill them in. That's actually a big deal. 1-5 questions is likely the difference for a lot of people when it comes to honoring a shelf. They shouldn't let people leave the room during shelf exams. Pee before you start.

 

[Goro]

Med school exams are definitely diuretic in nature.

overactive bladder disorder?

And the wise Crayola nails it!!!! Anyone who has to cheat their way through med school will be slaughtered by Boards.

I've got the bird's eye view on this.

Ha, and here we forget the great equalizer. Step 1 and Step 2.
So whatever cheating is happening, there's quality control on the licensing of physicians.
No one is passing both that doesn't know enough to *begin* training, assuming they have also passed all clinical rotations at an accredited school.
You can't cheat the whole system.
An attorney just said to me, "You passed one of the most rigorous educational experiences in this country, and one of the most difficult and comprehensive of licensing exams in the world."

Cheaters or not, eventually they will have to pay the pied piper and meet the standards, which are too complex and numerous to be cheated through.

Now, that's knowledge base. As far as ethical behavior and such, again, it's hard to be a total incompetent tool that shouldn't treat patients and make it through 2 years of clinicals AND 3-7 years of residency. The plug can be pulled on you at any time before board certification.
.

 

[ortnakas]

Trying to decide if @Crayola227 is actually hard-core enough to use an adult diaper for exams or trolling us all. (No judgment either way, your intern advice posts are wonderful).

Hhmmmm... So you are suggesting that a med school should confiscate an adult learners cell phone for the duration of a test? That is seriously over reaching ... ... Like seriously ... ... Frankly, don't worry about anyone else, make sure u ace the material for the step and you'll be fine.

You don't have access to your phone wen you take exams at Prometric; I don't really think it's an insult to adult learners to have the same expectation for exams at your school.

 

[MSTPlease]

You guys are focusing on pre-clinical. On my last exam of third year it dawned on me that people could literally go through a majority of their shelf, leave the room, look up a few quick things while they're in the bathroom, then come back and fill them in. That's actually a big deal. 1-5 questions is likely the difference for a lot of people when it comes to honoring a shelf. They shouldn't let people leave the room during shelf exams. Pee before you start.

How is that really any different than all of medicine? People can always fudge their billing, anesthesia can fudge their meds, etc. In research I could easily fudge data if I wanted to. It's one thing to have draconian measures for teenagers but by shelf time you're at least 24 years old - is being forbidden from using the bathroom or having to hand over your phone really all that keeps you from immorality? Time to start acting like an adult. (Not you personally, just talking conceptually).

 

[jw3600]

Hhmmmm... So you are suggesting that a med school should confiscate an adult learners cell phone for the duration of a test? That is seriously over reaching ... ... Like seriously ... ... Frankly, don't worry about anyone else, make sure u ace the material for the step and you'll be fine.

You can have phones during your exams? Like in testing center?

 

[Azete]

How is that really any different than all of medicine? People can always fudge their billing, anesthesia can fudge their meds, etc. In research I could easily fudge data if I wanted to. It's one thing to have draconian measures for teenagers but by shelf time you're at least 24 years old - is being forbidden from using the bathroom or having to hand over your phone really all that keeps you from immorality? Time to start acting like an adult. (Not you personally, just talking conceptually).

I agree that schools should treat adult learners like adults, especially since my school treats us like kids in every ****ing way, but I also have seen how incredibly dishonest my classmates can be. If we were allowed to leave for bathroom breaks, I have zero doubt that ~30% of my class would be cheating.

 

[hello1234!]

You can have phones during your exams? Like in testing center?

No, of course not. i think I misunderstood. I thought people meant being forced to check in their phone with a school admin as opposed to just putting in your locker.

 

[Crayola227]

Trying to decide if @Crayola227 is actually hard-core enough to use an adult diaper for exams or trolling us all. (No judgment either way, your intern advice posts are wonderful).


You don't have access to your phone wen you take exams at Prometric; I don't really think it's an insult to adult learners to have the same expectation for exams at your school.

Like I said, I'm for real. I wasn't worried about #2, so I didn't wear actual diapers.
I did in fact wear incontinence pads for MCAT and Steps. They're like menstrual pads, just really beefy. It wasn't bad.

I think it's too much trouble for schools to worry about phones, and as I said earlier the Steps are the equalizer, and to me it makes sense they have added security.

At the level of school exams, people should know better than to cheat.

I appreciated my school didn't give that many ****s. Sometimes in fact, I would look at my phone to see the time (clock could be missing hard to see or absent in a room) and no one cared as long as you were glancing not texting on the darn thing.

Then again my class had good ethics. The class after mine after they instituted MMI to get more "social skills"
got charming glib sociopaths that were a real cheating problem.

 

[68PGunner]

I agree that schools should treat adult learners like adults, especially since my school treats us like kids in every ****ing way, but I also have seen how incredibly dishonest my classmates can be. If we were allowed to leave for bathroom breaks, I have zero doubt that ~30% of my class would be cheating.

You have too many wanna be gunners at your school.

 

[sharkbyte]

At my school the only things we can bring into the exam room are our laptop, laptop charger, privacy screen protector (which we're required to have) and our ID badge, which we have to scan at the front of the room to mark attendance. Everything else is barred (even water bottles and watches, which personally annoys me).

We're technically not "supposed" to bring in phones, wallets, etc. into the exam room and they have a bin at the front that you have to put your stuff in if you forgot to keep it in your locker or something, but I don't think they have any way of actually checking. I remember for one exam last semester I purely forgot to put my phone/wallet/keys into my locker and I just had them in my pocket and nothing happened.

We're allowed to use the bathroom as many times as we want, with the only rule being that only one person of each gender can be gone at a time. We just have to scan out/in each time. No escort or anything.

 

[Crayola227]

At my school the only things we can bring into the exam room are our laptop, laptop charger, privacy screen protector (which we're required to have) and our ID badge, which we have to scan at the front of the room to mark attendance. Everything else is barred (even water bottles and watches, which personally annoys me).

We're technically not "supposed" to bring in phones, wallets, etc. into the exam room and they have a bin at the front that you have to put your stuff in if you forgot to keep it in your locker or something, but I don't think they have any way of actually checking. I remember for one exam last semester I purely forgot to put my phone/wallet/keys into my locker and I just had them in my pocket and nothing happened.

We're allowed to use the bathroom as many times as we want, with the only rule being that only one person of each gender can be gone at a time. We just have to scan out/in each time. No escort or anything.

Wow, no water bottles.

My school people brought their breakfast and ate it and snacks during the exam.

The only time I found it particularly annoying was when it was a bag of carrots.

Otherwise NOGAF.