Checking in cell phones before exams to prevent cheating?

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The_Sunny_Doc

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Myself and a few other classmates are suspicious that people in our class are using their cell phones to cheat during bathrooms breaks during our exams. There were also rumors that the class below paid for cell phone pictures of all the exam answers from review sessions from the previous year, passed along from a current second year. We've heard these practices are common at a lot of medical schools. Would having students check in cell phones for the duration of the test and test review sessions be reasonable, or is it over reaching? The issues of grades doesn't bother me, but the fact that we have a class rank that can help or hurt us is concerning.

Another situation that arose involved a student would who come early to write notes on his allotted sheet of paper--formulas and diagrams and high yield facts to use on the test.

What policies do you have in place to prevent cheating at your school?

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Myself and a few other classmates are suspicious that people in our class--the ones who get up to use the restroom 3+ times during a 2 hour exam--are using their cell phones they keep in their pockets to look up their notes on the phone. There were also rumors that the class below paid for cell phone pictures of all the exam review sessions (e.g. the answers to the exams) from the previous year, passed along from a current second year. We've heard these practices are common at a lot of medical schools. Would having students check in cell phones for the duration of the test and test review sessions be reasonable, or is it over reaching? The issues of grades doesn't bother me (ultimately, you cannot fake a high board score), but the fact that we have a class rank makes it an issue I'm concerned about.

Another situation that arose involved a student would who arrive an hour early to "study" for the exam and write down on his allotted sheet of paper a bunch of formulas and charts of facts to use on the test.

What policies do you have in place to prevent cheating at your school?
Same **** at my school 1st and 2nd year (prof written exams that are reused almost 99% verbatim year to year). Most people get put in their place either on Step or during clerkships and shelf exams.
 
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Wtf people risk this **** in medical school? This is high school behavior.
 
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Same **** at my school 1st and 2nd year (prof written exams that are reused almost 99% verbatim year to year). Most people get put in their place either on Step or during clerkships and shelf exams.

I just hope PDs know how common these practices are when they look at metrics like pre-clinical grades.
 
This is high school behavior.
Could just be my class (though I doubt it), but that's pretty much where the maturity level of many med students is, especially the ones that went straight through HS --> undergrad --> med school.
 
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We're not allowed to leave the room for any reason during exams. If your cell phone is on your body during an exam you are assumed to have been cheating, fail automatically, and are sent to honor council. Sounds like your school doesn't care about the integrity of their exams.
 
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They dont care 1 iota about preclinical grades, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

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Sure, but in many schools preclinical grades factor into whether or not you get AOA. Not having AOA doesn't hurt but having AOA is definitely helpful.


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Sure, but in many schools preclinical grades factor into whether or not you get AOA.
I definitely wouldn't say "many".

Nonetheless, if this is a concern, I would bring this up to the administration. Perhaps checking in all cell phones before exams is something that needs to happen at your school.
 
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We have enough proctors walking around during review sessions that no one would stupid enough to risk expulsion for this.

We also have a large item bank that we can swap out questions every year. We are encouraged to write new items every year as well. We haven't reached the point where we can be like NBME/NBOME and have a different test for each student, but we're heading in that direction.

We don't hand out scratch paper etc until the desks have been cleared. At that point, if someone wants to write out high yield facts, fine.




Myself and a few other classmates are suspicious that people in our class are using their cell phones to cheat during bathrooms breaks during our exams. There were also rumors that the class below paid for cell phone pictures of all the exam answers from review sessions from the previous year, passed along from a current second year. We've heard these practices are common at a lot of medical schools. Would having students check in cell phones for the duration of the test and test review sessions be reasonable, or is it over reaching? The issues of grades doesn't bother me, but the fact that we have a class rank that can help or hurt us is concerning.

Another situation that arose involved a student would who come early to write notes on his allotted sheet of paper--formulas and diagrams and high yield facts to use on the test.

What policies do you have in place to prevent cheating at your school?
 
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That's total BS.

My school uses the honor system. I could stroll into the bathroom whenever and Google anything. Never did, nor do I suspect anyone else did.

Really, why do people go there? Why make it ugly? Demand of yourself the ability to master the material. Nothing less.
 
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Is this real? That sounds crazy. And this is an allopathic medical school.
 
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Is this real? That sounds crazy. And this is an allopathic medical school.
Seriously. I would expect this from the unwashed osteopaths. But the ivory tower? The indignity!
 
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Seriously. I would expect this from the unwashed osteopaths. But the ivory tower? The indignity!
I wouldn't be surprised if this kinda thing happened offshore.
 
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I would be surprised if this kind of thing DIDN'T happen offshore. There's bad eggs everywhere though. We had a girl cheating in our class 2 weeks ago. Now the faculty are 10x more watchful and IT monitors the school wifi during exams
 
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Wow, I must be naive because I never even thought of going to the bathroom during an exam to look things up on my phone. I would honestly be surprised if anyone in my class was doing that. Is it really worth the risk??
 
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Wow, I must be naive because I never even thought of going to the bathroom during an exam to look things up on my phone. I would honestly be surprised if anyone in my class was doing that. Is it really worth the risk??
Definitely not. You get a few points at the risk of getting expelled? That sounds like the dumbest thing ever
 
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Definitely not. You get a few points at the risk of getting expelled? That sounds like the dumbest thing ever

I'm imagining getting caught in an exam room with my phone and it's making me nauseous just thinking about it.
 
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I'm imagining getting caught in an exam room with my phone and it's making me nauseous just thinking about it.
Haha seriously I think I'd cry. There was a girl in my undergrad anatomy class that got caught looking at her phone during a test and she got called out by one of the proctors. Not only was she thrown out and failed for the course but this also happened in front of like 300 people. That has to be the most horrifying experience ever
 
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Wow, I must be naive because I never even thought of going to the bathroom during an exam to look things up on my phone. I would honestly be surprised if anyone in my class was doing that. Is it really worth the risk??
My thing is that what answers can you even google on your phone? Most med school exam questions are 2nd or 3rd order. Googling something doesn't help you that much
 
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Haha seriously I think I'd cry. There was a girl in my undergrad anatomy class that got caught looking at her phone during a test and she got called out by one of the proctors. Not only was she thrown out and failed for the course but this also happened in front of like 300 people. That has to be the most horrifying experience ever

It's giving me flashbacks to that time in 5th grade when I got caught forging my mom's signature on an assignment.

My thing is that what answers can you even google on your phone? Most med school exam questions are 2nd or 3rd order. Googling something doesn't help you that much

Eh I don't know, it could help if you just had no idea what the question was getting at. Like if you forgot dermatomes or what muscle is innervated by a certain nerve or something you could look that up.
 
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Wow, I must be naive because I never even thought of going to the bathroom during an exam to look things up on my phone. I would honestly be surprised if anyone in my class was doing that. Is it really worth the risk??
My thing is that what answers can you even google on your phone? Most med school exam questions are 2nd or 3rd order. Googling something doesn't help you that much

Seems like a low yield activity consider you would have to remember the questions and then remember the answers. Plus how much time do you have in the exam that you are able to do anything like this.
 
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Seems like a low yield activity consider you would have to remember the questions and then remember the answers. Plus how much time do you have in the exam that you are able to do anything like this.

Oh I totally agree, but I would assume that anyone who has to cheat is probably desperate.
 
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Wow, I must be naive because I never even thought of going to the bathroom during an exam to look things up on my phone. I would honestly be surprised if anyone in my class was doing that. Is it really worth the risk??

I wouldn't think so, but when you see the same students getting up to go the bathroom multiple times, you assume they have a good reason for doing so.
 
I wouldn't think so, but when you see the same students getting up to go the bathroom multiple times, you assume they have a good reason for doing so.
overactive bladder disorder?
 
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Myself and a few other classmates are suspicious that people in our class are using their cell phones to cheat during bathrooms breaks during our exams. There were also rumors that the class below paid for cell phone pictures of all the exam answers from review sessions from the previous year, passed along from a current second year. We've heard these practices are common at a lot of medical schools. Would having students check in cell phones for the duration of the test and test review sessions be reasonable, or is it over reaching? The issues of grades doesn't bother me, but the fact that we have a class rank that can help or hurt us is concerning.

Another situation that arose involved a student would who come early to write notes on his allotted sheet of paper--formulas and diagrams and high yield facts to use on the test.

What policies do you have in place to prevent cheating at your school?

The only thing we were allowed to take into a test was our iPad (which we took the test on) and a dry-erase marker. Everything else had to be left outside the lecture hall for the test and there was a proctor in the hall to make sure no one took anything from their bag if they went to the bathroom. For review sessions we weren't allowed to bring anything into the room.

Could just be my class (though I doubt it), but that's pretty much where the maturity level of many med students is, especially the ones that went straight through HS --> undergrad --> med school.

It happens all over. Never had that issue with my class, but the class below me had several students dismissed from school for cheating. Blows my mind that you'd risk your entire career over one test. Even if you fail the test or class, you've still got a career. If you get caught cheating you've basically killed any hopes of being a future physician.

overactive bladder disorder?

It was excessive caffeine intake for me...
 
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The only thing we were allowed to take into a test was our iPad (which we took the test on) and a dry-erase marker. Everything else had to be left outside the lecture hall for the test and there was a proctor in the hall to make sure no one took anything from their bag if they went to the bathroom. For review sessions we weren't allowed to bring anything into the room.



It happens all over. Never had that issue with my class, but the class below me had several students dismissed from school for cheating. Blows my mind that you'd risk your entire career over one test. Even if you fail the test or class, you've still got a career. If you get caught cheating you've basically killed any hopes of being a future physician.



It was excessive caffeine intake for me...
I go to the bathroom a lot. It is the caffeine as well for me.
 
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Seriously. I would expect this from the unwashed osteopaths. But the ivory tower? The indignity!

I was wondering about the comment you were replying to. Pretty sure both allopathic and osteopathic students are equally devious and competitive, hah.
 
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We were not allowed cell phones in the room, could not access our lockers during the exam, and had an escort take us to the restroom.
 
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You arent even certain that any cheating is occurring
I am certain because a ton of people witnessed it. I just don't know who the perpetrators are because I heard the account from someone who heard about it from the people who witnessed it, and no one wants to name names.

There's always that attitude that cheating catches up with people, therefore we don't need to address it with restrictive policies. I can see your perspective, and acknowledge its validity.
 
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I am certain because a ton of people witnessed it. I just don't know who the perpetrators are because I heard the account from someone who heard about it from the people who witnessed it, and no one wants to name names.

There's always that attitude that cheating catches up with people, therefore we don't need to address it with restrictive policies. I can see your perspective, and acknowledge its validity. I don't know how I feel about future physicians not putting in the hours in to build their foundation of knowledge during the pre-clinical years because they have access to old test questions and answers. Perhaps if they know what they need to know for the COMLEX and USMLE, that's sufficient.
You do you and quit worrying about everyone else. You can't make other people behave ethically. If you're really flustered, fill out one of those evaluations and mention that students have been accessing old exam questions, then take comfort in knowing that the people in the bathroom cheating aren't the ones knocking your ass out of AOA.
 
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My school doesn't even let me wear my analog watch for exams. I'm surprised your school lets you keep cell phones with you during exams! I choose to believe that people who would do something as stupid as flagrantly cheating on a medical school exam like this would not have been admitted to medical school in the first place.
 
My school doesn't even let me wear my analog watch for exams. I'm surprised your school lets you keep cell phones with you during exams! I choose to believe that people who would do something as stupid as flagrantly cheating on a medical school exam like this would not have been admitted to medical school in the first place.

I assume people are just putting their phones in their pockets (which I'm sure is against the rules) then going to the bathroom and using them.


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It happens all over. Never had that issue with my class, but the class below me had several students dismissed from school for cheating. Blows my mind that you'd risk your entire career over one test. Even if you fail the test or class, you've still got a career. If you get caught cheating you've basically killed any hopes of being a future physician.
I was referring more to the overall behavior in general, not just cheating.
 
Myself and a few other classmates are suspicious that people in our class are using their cell phones to cheat during bathrooms breaks during our exams. There were also rumors that the class below paid for cell phone pictures of all the exam answers from review sessions from the previous year, passed along from a current second year. We've heard these practices are common at a lot of medical schools. Would having students check in cell phones for the duration of the test and test review sessions be reasonable, or is it over reaching? The issues of grades doesn't bother me, but the fact that we have a class rank that can help or hurt us is concerning.

Another situation that arose involved a student would who come early to write notes on his allotted sheet of paper--formulas and diagrams and high yield facts to use on the test.

What policies do you have in place to prevent cheating at your school?

There's no way to prevent any of this where the ends justify the means.

If you check in phones, people will bring in older phones or their friend's phones or do something else to switch out their own defeating the purpose.

If you try to prevent cell-phones being brought in, people will hide them in pockets which will warrant turning out pockets and then determined students will put them in other places where a full pat down would become necessary and no one's willing to go through that.

The best bet is to just cut phone signal to the testing area and any bathrooms involved and don't write questions that are verbatim from the notes. Also train proctors to watch for suspicious behavior or to see if they spot phones. Tell students they're not allowed to have one and if caught with one, give one warning to account for innocent negligence. All these are just deterrents and if students are willing to bypass these, whatever...they're risking their entire career.

As for your suspicions, we had a similar instance where admin was concerned students were leaking questions. Again, lazy on admins part for not compiling a larger Qbank. What our admin does is only allow students to know what they get wrong by staying after for 10 minutes with even tighter proctor supervision, allowing them to see their incorrect answers and then let them leave without writing anything down. Some course directors have not allowed this for their exams because they feel like giving students correct answers will help any question memorization.

As for phone screenshots from a review? Do you mean some sort post exam review like the one I described? If so, notify administration if you know with certainty that this has occurred. They will be required to change test questions and they'll probably not want to do that again and learn to have proctors watching closely during the reviews to ensure this doesn't happen.

As for the coming in early and writing notes, same as above. Give a warning because people may forget but then say that afterwards, if you're caught, you're done.


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I wouldn't think so, but when you see the same students getting up to go the bathroom multiple times, you assume they have a good reason for doing so.

OP, you may just be paranoid. Many people including myself are guilty of multi-restroom breaks due to caffeine or what-not and I don't cheat yet I still worry people get suspicious so I just hurry to the bathroom and come back as fast as possible.


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I am certain because a ton of people witnessed it. I just don't know who the perpetrators are because I heard the account from someone who heard about it from the people who witnessed it, and no one wants to name names.

There's always that attitude that cheating catches up with people, therefore we don't need to address it with restrictive policies. I can see your perspective, and acknowledge its validity. I don't know how I feel about future physicians not putting in the hours in to build their foundation of knowledge during the pre-clinical years because they have access to old test questions and answers. Perhaps if they know what they need to know for the COMLEX and USMLE, that's sufficient.

So you're "certain" about something that "a ton" of people witnessed... but you heard it from someone who heard it from someone?
 
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So you're "certain" about something that "a ton" of people witnessed... but you heard it from someone who heard it from someone?
Girrrrrl gossip on the streets is always reliable

giphy.gif
 
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So you're "certain" about something that "a ton" of people witnessed... but you heard it from someone who heard it from someone?
:horns: Believe me, a lot of people, a lot of very smart people, they're saying this. And I'm not saying--you know, it's like, the media, or as I like to call it the "fake" media--you know, they're always saying, "Oh, he's got a cell phone, he's going to the bathroom," I'm just saying--and I've said this for a very, very long time--maybe we should look into it. :horns:
 
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Wait, you guys can use the bathroom during exams? Our options are either go diarrhea in our seat or remediate. I wish that was a joke.
 
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So you're "certain" about something that "a ton" of people witnessed... but you heard it from someone who heard it from someone?
A different school I interviewed at a couple years ago had a similar incident occur with the 2nd years taking cell phone pics during test review sessions and selling them to first years. Our main interview question at that school was,"What would you do if you saw the person next to you cheating?" Apparently, it's not a rare occurrence.

If you sit in the back of the huge lecture hall on one of the top 2 levels, no one can see what you're doing. The test review sessions aren't supervised.
 
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Wait, you guys can use the bathroom during exams? Our options are either go diarrhea in our seat or remediate. I wish that was a joke.
Ouch! That's cold. Perhaps there was an incident before your class that necessitated the policy.
 
Ouch! That's cold. Perhaps there was an incident before your class that necessitated the policy.

Ours depending on the exam. For one-hour exams they figured you could deal (I'm sure there's some sort of medical excuse caveat). For the four-hour beasts, there was a one person out of the room at a time rule.
 
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Sure, but in many schools preclinical grades factor into whether or not you get AOA. Not having AOA doesn't hurt but having AOA is definitely helpful.


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Isn't AOA like the top 10% max? And that's going to include clinical grades, which we can bitch about for being subjective, one can't really "cheat" the same way.

Basically, that means 9/10 students are not AOA.
So I don't see any reason to give AOA a second thought.
If you work hard, get it, put it on your app, more power to you.
If not, no one cares you DON'T have it, for probably 90% of the residency positions out there.
I want to say NOGAF but it does matter for uber competitive blah blha blhablsdfj.

However, for any given "positive" that someone has on their app, you can have a similar positive that makes you equal. What's more difficult is if you have deficiencies or red flags. In that case though, I still question the value of AOA.

Makes sense?

Given how complex the whole match system is, I truly wouldn't give AOA a second thought. I don't know what control you have over it, and how much it matters will not be known to you until you are going for a particular specialty and a particular program.
 
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Honestly, the only people in my class I know who do anything close to cheating (study drugs, get competitive and cheat in small group stuff that actually have no grades) are very smart. They are type A, OCD people who can't comprehend the fact that grades don't matter (it's only important that you have the knowledge needed to serve your patients), so they feel pressured to cheat even though they get in the 90s on their own. It's probably a mixture of the just scraping by and top of the class who cheat.

I've got the bird's eye view on this.

Ha, and here we forget the great equalizer. Step 1 and Step 2.
So whatever cheating is happening, there's quality control on the licensing of physicians.
No one is passing both that doesn't know enough to *begin* training, assuming they have also passed all clinical rotations at an accredited school.
You can't cheat the whole system.
An attorney just said to me, "You passed one of the most rigorous educational experiences in this country, and one of the most difficult and comprehensive of licensing exams in the world."

Cheaters or not, eventually they will have to pay the pied piper and meet the standards, which are too complex and numerous to be cheated through.

Now, that's knowledge base. As far as ethical behavior and such, again, it's hard to be a total incompetent tool that shouldn't treat patients and make it through 2 years of clinicals AND 3-7 years of residency. The plug can be pulled on you at any time before board certification.

After that, it's tougher. We still catch bad docs. And we still have bad docs slip through the cracks, our profession's "Jeffrey Dahmers" if you will.

Still, the concern with test scores becomes more and more ridiculous the further into training you get. You find that aside from being a tool and measure for knowing what you need to know for your job, (and residency placement), they are meaningless and cheating on a test questions regarding reading an EKG is not going to save your ****ing ass in the ICU while a patient codes. Others will be able to tell that your inability to read that EKG prevented you from doing the right thing. If you have a soul and are the OCD cheater, this will weigh on you. If you're a **** up in other ways, this could end you. If you're otherwise a good employee, you can continue, perhaps watched more closely than ever.

If the cheating is this bad, I am more worried that the school will have a wake up call in the form of failed steps. Maybe they can just study to the Step and pass. Or, students go out for VSAS and word is spread the graduates don't know what 4th years should know. Or, assuming the luck holds and they match, the grads will give the school a bad name, which will spread like wildfire amongst risk-averse PDs. Carribbean, anyone??

More than likely, it will not get this bad for the entire school.

Wait, you guys can use the bathroom during exams? Our options are either go diarrhea in our seat or remediate. I wish that was a joke.

This is why I recommend with all seriousness sturdy absorbent incontinence pads or diapers. There's nothing like knowing you *can* **** yourself and continue test-taking with total dignity, to ease anxiety over pissing yourself affecting your exam score.
 
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