Children of Physicians

[deleted1066902]

If one of my parents is a physicians, am I held to a different standard versus someone who is not? Do you expect certain experiences more? @LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @gonnif @Moko

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[Goro]

It gives me fodder for an interview question. No, I'm not sharing.

 

[LizzyM]

Well, it would be far less likely that you could not find anyone to shadow. Whereas someone who came from far different circumstances might be cut some slack in that regard, I would not expect the same attitude toward a physician's kid who had little to no shadowing.

 

[Moko]

If one of my parents is a physicians, am I held to a different standard versus someone who is not? Do you expect certain experiences more? @LizzyM @Goro @gyngyn @gonnif @Moko

Yes and no. At my school, we evaluate all applicants using the same yardstick: one that values grades, scores, ECs, character, and diverse life experiences.

An applicant who is a first-generation college graduate (EO1) will likely have overcome more obstacles to reach the same point as someone with physician parents. These applicants bring with them relatively uncommon life experiences that will contribute to the diversity and learning of a class. As a consequence of not having the same opportunities growing up (e.g. no private school, no tutoring, needing to work due to financial instability, lack of mentorship, connections for shadowing, etc.), these applicants may be cut some slack for not having the same breadth of extracurricular experiences that their peers might have. So in this sense, having slightly weaker ECs may be 'countered' by the life experiences they bring. Hope this makes sense.

In contrast to these EO1 applicants, those with parents who have graduated college and/or have advanced degrees are generally given similar consideration as someone with physician parents. Just my observations.

 

[KnightDoc]

Yes and no. At my school, we evaluate all applicants using the same yardstick: one that values grades, scores, ECs, character, and diverse life experiences.

An applicant who is a first-generation college graduate (EO1) will likely have overcome more obstacles to reach the same point as someone with physician parents. These applicants bring with them relatively uncommon life experiences that will contribute to the diversity and learning of a class. As a consequence of not having the same opportunities growing up (e.g. no private school, no tutoring, needing to work due to financial instability, lack of mentorship, connections for shadowing, etc.), these applicants may be cut some slack for not having the same breadth of extracurricular experiences that their peers might have. So in this sense, having slightly weaker ECs may be 'countered' by the life experiences they bring. Hope this makes sense.

In contrast to these EO1 applicants, those with parents who have graduated college and/or have advanced degrees are generally given similar consideration as someone with physician parents. Just my observations.

So, in general, it's neither an advantage nor are they held to a higher standard? TBH, it's kind of difficult to believe that, with their superior access to experiences and opportunities within the profession, that they wouldn't be at an advantage to other high SES applicants.

 

[Rogue42]

So, in general, it's neither an advantage nor are they held to a higher standard? TBH, it's kind of difficult to believe that, with their superior access to experiences and opportunities within the profession, that they wouldn't be at an advantage to other high SES applicants

Yes and no. At my school, we evaluate all applicants using the same yardstick: one that values grades, scores, ECs, character, and diverse life experiences.

An applicant who is a first-generation college graduate (EO1) will likely have overcome more obstacles to reach the same point as someone with physician parents. These applicants bring with them relatively uncommon life experiences that will contribute to the diversity and learning of a class. As a consequence of not having the same opportunities growing up (e.g. no private school, no tutoring, needing to work due to financial instability, lack of mentorship, connections for shadowing, etc.), these applicants may be cut some slack for not having the same breadth of extracurricular experiences that their peers might have. So in this sense, having slightly weaker ECs may be 'countered' by the life experiences they bring. Hope this makes sense.

In contrast to these EO1 applicants, those with parents who have graduated college and/or have advanced degrees are generally given similar consideration as someone with physician parents. Just my observations.

In his example, those that come from a 1st generation college graduate family are given an advantage by the fact that the committee understands that these students may not be on the same EC level as their peers. So in hindsight, you have an applicant with parent physicians having the same ECs as someone from a low SES background, then the low SES background probably wins that battle.

Keep in mind that it is hard to generalize all of these things as no ones application is equivalent to another.

 

[r2med]

So, in general, it's neither an advantage nor are they held to a higher standard? TBH, it's kind of difficult to believe that, with their superior access to experiences and opportunities within the profession, that they wouldn't be at an advantage to other high SES applicants.

Oh! I've seen physicians do projects for their children - they do have more opportunities than others. If adcoms are considering them the same as others, that is a problem.

 

[toastedbutter]

Oh! I've seen physicians do projects for their children - they do have more opportunities than others. If adcoms are considering them the same as others, that is a problem.

You seem to have a skewed sample. I could say the same, I know (off the top of my head) four or five family friends who are children of physicians and pre-med. Their parents do nothing for them whatsoever and they often have had to travel to neighboring universities for research/extracurriculars to avoid working with faculty that have a relationship with their parents. My father is in biomed, works with many folks at our state medical school. Because of this, I travel to a university an hour away for my research because all the good labs are filled with my father's colleagues. I think students should be evaluated on factors they can control and earn rather than something they're born with. This goes both ways, for the privileged and underprivileged.

 

[r2med]

You seem to have a skewed sample. I could say the same, I know (off the top of my head) four or five family friends who are children of physicians and pre-med. Their parents do nothing for them whatsoever and they often have had to travel to neighboring universities for research/extracurriculars to avoid working with faculty that have a relationship with their parents. My father is in biomed, works with many folks at our state medical school. Because of this, I travel to a university an hour away for my research because all the good labs are filled with my father's colleagues. I think students should be evaluated on factors they can control and earn rather than something they're born with. This goes both ways, for the privileged and underprivileged.

Agree situations may be different and then there are also personal choices of wanting or not wanting to work with parents or people who know parents. But in general, people with connections have a better scope of getting opportunities than people without. Whether they use those opportunities or not is a different story.

 

[deleted1066902]

Agree situations may be different and then there are also personal choices of wanting or not wanting to work with parents or people who know parents. But in general, people with connections have a better scope of getting opportunities than people without. Whether they use those opportunities or not is a different story.

Also, AMCAS doesn't ask for extended family that are physicians. So, by that metric, you could have hundreds if not thousands of applicants that have some family connection into medicine but based on AMCAS it's not representative. It's fair to expect extra shadowing hours(but with COVID this doesnt even matter because most physicians prefer not to have anyone) from people that come from physicians but to expect anything more like extra research, pubs, internships is unreasonable.

 

[FluffyCat1212]

Agreed. My mom is a hospitalist and does zero research, so all of my research experiences are ones I've had to seek out myself. Shadowing was a little easier to get, but she lives in a different state and has zero connections in my state, so I wasn't able to shadow too often. Would say that the only ways it helped was 1) being maybe a little more familiar with the more challenging aspects of working as a doctor, 2) finding people to shadow, and 3) moral support/application reviews from her and her work friends (some of whom are practically family).

I've had a few interviewers bring it up, but I never felt that I was treated any differently because of it. There were a few questions about whether or not I was pressured into it (lol heck no) or wanted to do it because of her (also a resounding no). But yeah, that's my experience. Not an adcom's perspective, but my experience as a current interviewee.

 

[r2med]

Would children of physicians be better physicians - very likely, so they may actually be favored by adcoms.

 

[KnightDoc]

Would children of physicians be better physicians - very likely, so they may actually be favored by adcoms.

Way to advocate for institutionalized bias!!!

Once upon a time, white, upper and upper middle class Ivy educated males were also favored by adcoms because it was thought they'd be better physicians, which is one of the reasons certain groups were historically under represented, and some are still in that position today.

 

[r2med]

Way to advocate for institutionalized bias!!!

Me no adcom buddy.

 

[deleted1066902]

To be completely honest, my mom being a physician probably pushed me away from medicine. To see the long hours she worked and then constantly hearing about how annoying case managers are, the constant documenting, and how there is very little time with the patients in a hospital setting due to the sheer volume were things that made me initially not want to go into medicine. It was not until I actually started volunteering in the hospital myself where I saw the pros and cons and could make a decision.

 

[r2med]

To be completely honest, my mom being a physician probably pushed me away from medicine. To see the long hours she worked and then constantly hearing about how annoying case managers and EHR and how there is very little time with the patients in a hospital setting due to the sheer volume were things that made me want to not go into medicine. It was not until I actually started volunteering in the hospital myself where I saw the pros and cons and could make a decision.

Very true. I've seen some that have stayed away for the very reasons.

 

[FluffyCat1212]

To be completely honest, my mom being a physician probably pushed me away from medicine. To see the long hours she worked and then constantly hearing about how annoying case managers are, the constant documenting, and how there is very little time with the patients in a hospital setting due to the sheer volume were things that made me initially not want to go into medicine. It was not until I actually started volunteering in the hospital myself where I saw the pros and cons and could make a decision.

Agree 100%. This was absolutely my experience. As a kid, I thought she was nuts for loving it so much. Now, I get it.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Only help my kid got thru my spouse (physician) is shadowing opportunities and one small clinical research project. Everything else (including his primary research) he found on his own. I know lot of physician kids who didn't go into medicine since they felt their parents spent less time with them.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Physician privelege didnt get my son very much.. He was a double legacy at the University where I did my residency and my wife got her MD. We were also financial donors to the school. All it got him was a courtesy interview and permanent wait list. My Alma Mater accepted him from the wait list. Also a donor to that school. As far as physician privelege, he went to a public HS, and Catholic college. I insisted both my boys either be an athlete or have a job. Turns out, they both got their work permits at age 14, and were very good athletes. One a competerive swimmer and the physician was an inside linebacker and Captain of the defense at our 5 A HS. He worked at a local retirement village in the kitchen,, as a server,, as a bus driver and a volunteer in the free care facility. He shadowed extraordinary local physicians that we knew. Despite all of this privelege, he had 1 med school acceptance for which we were very grateful. Stats were 3.6 sGPA and and 31 MCAT on the old scoring system. In my N=1 experience, the physician privelege didn't extend to him.
When interviewing applicants from physician families, I do expect a little more insight into medicine. I really try to focus on why they are continuing on with medicine as a career.

 

[KnightDoc]

Physician privelege didnt get my son very much.. He was a double legacy at the University where I did my residency and my wife got her MD. We were also financial donors to the school. All it got him was a courtesy interview and permanent wait list. My Alma Mater accepted him from the wait list. Also a donor to that school. As far as physician privelege, he went to a public HS, and Catholic college. I insisted both my boys either be an athlete or have a job. Turns out, they both got their work permits at age 14, and were very good athletes. One a competerive swimmer and the physician was an inside linebacker and Captain of the defense at our 5 A HS. He worked at a local retirement village in the kitchen,, as a server,, as a bus driver and a volunteer in the free care facility. He shadowed extraordinary local physicians that we knew. Despite all of this privelege, he had 1 med school acceptance for which we were very grateful. Stats were 3.6 sGPA and and 31 MCAT on the old scoring system. In my N=1 experience, the physician privelege didn't extend to him.
When interviewing applicants from physician families, I do expect a little more insight into medicine. I really try to focus on why they are continuing on with medicine as a career.

I'm very happy things worked out for your son, but, as someone on the outside looking in, if physician privilege were a thing, I'd think by now there are enough physicians with enough qualified children that the only people allowed to attend med school would be the children of physicians plus whoever would be lucky enough to receive a URM/low SES slot.

So, it's just as well that everyone is judged on their own merits, which allows deserving candidates from all walks of life an opportunity to enter the profession, even at the potential risk of some people not being incentivized to make donations, knowing that it will not buy their kids any advantage in the admission lottery.

 

[Goro]

Would children of physicians be better physicians - very likely, so they may actually be favored by adcoms.

There is zero evidence of either. If anything, doctor's kids are very well represented in medical schools, and we wonder at times how many of them were forced to go that route.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Physician privelege didnt get my son very much.. He was a double legacy at the University where I did my residency and my wife got her MD. We were also financial donors to the school. All it got him was a courtesy interview and permanent wait list. My Alma Mater accepted him from the wait list. Also a donor to that school. As far as physician privelege, he went to a public HS, and Catholic college. I insisted both my boys either be an athlete or have a job. Turns out, they both got their work permits at age 14, and were very good athletes. One a competerive swimmer and the physician was an inside linebacker and Captain of the defense at our 5 A HS. He worked at a local retirement village in the kitchen,, as a server,, as a bus driver and a volunteer in the free care facility. He shadowed extraordinary local physicians that we knew. Despite all of this privelege, he had 1 med school acceptance for which we were very grateful. Stats were 3.6 sGPA and and 31 MCAT on the old scoring system. In my N=1 experience, the physician privelege didn't extend to him.
When interviewing applicants from physician families, I do expect a little more insight into medicine. I really try to focus on why they are continuing on with medicine as a career.

Lot of people think medical schools prefer physicians kids and it's an insider game.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Lot of people think medical schools prefer physicians kids and it's an insider game.

Yes, you might think so. Hasn't been our experience. My son is the first one to go to medical in my wife's very large practice of nearly 30 yrs. YMMV.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Yes, you might think so. Hasn't been our experience. My son is the first one to go to medical in my wife's very large practice of nearly 30 yrs. YMMV.

I don't think so either given my spouse is a physician and I know how helpful that is but I hear it from other family members and friends. I bet they will say my kid got into my spouse's alma matter thru connections.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I don't think so either given my spouse is a physician and I know how helpful that is but I hear it from other family members and friends. I bet they will say my kid got into my spouse's alma matter thru connections.

Oh yes. My son was waitlisted permanently at the University where my wife and I made 5 figure donations over the years. They even bragged about how much they liked legacy applicants and how they had the largest alumni organization in the country. Needless to say their gravy train ended after that.

 

[KnightDoc]

Oh yes. My son was waitlisted permanently at the University where my wife and I made 5 figure donations over the years. They even bragged about how much they liked legacy applicants and how they had the largest alumni organization in the country. Needless to say their gravy train ended after that.

Again, I am truly happy that things worked out for your son, but, given that tuition nowadays is so high that each and every matriculant makes an annual "donation" far in excess of the cumulative donation you and your wife made over many years, why in the world would you think your "gravy train" would or should move the needle on admission decisions???

Sure, all schools have a very effective development team whose job it is to get you to donate, and maybe they played you if they led you to believe your donations were actually buying you anything other than the warm and fuzzies that come from supporting the place where you did your residency. What would the integrity of the process look like if 5 figure "donations" made over a number of years were actually allowed to influence admission decisions? Kinda cynical to think that would buy your kid a spot over someone with a demonstrably stronger application.

I don't think anyone would begrudge you being disappointed if the Angus endowment funding full tuition scholarships for the entire class didn't buy you some influence, but what would admissions look like if everyone donating $10K+ over a period of time got to designate one or more people for admission outside the process everyone else goes through? Given how good your advice is in general, and how plugged in you are with respect to the process, I'm more than a little surprised that you seem surprised by how it played out for you and your son.

 

[r2med]

Again, I am truly happy that things worked out for your son, but, given that tuition nowadays is so high that each and every matriculant makes an annual "donation" far in excess of the cumulative donation you and your wife made over many years, why in the world would you think your "gravy train" would or should move the needle on admission decisions???

Sure, all schools have a very effective development team whose job it is to get you to donate, and maybe they played you if they led you to believe your donations were actually buying you anything other than the warm and fuzzies that come from supporting the place where you did your residency. What would the integrity of the process look like if 5 figure "donations" made over a number of years were actually allowed to influence admission decisions? Kinda cynical to think that would buy your kid a spot over someone with a demonstrably stronger application.

I don't think anyone would begrudge you being disappointed if the Angus endowment funding full tuition scholarships for the entire class didn't buy you some influence, but what would admissions look like if everyone donating $10K+ over a period of time got to designate one or more people for admission outside the process everyone else goes through? Given how good your advice is in general, and how plugged in you are with respect to the process, I'm more than a little surprised that you seem surprised by how it played out for you and your son.

Two applicants - one seat. One has legacy and donor. Other has neither. All other things being equal, which one would you choose Mr Dean?

And for schools - every penny counts, I would think. I am not sure how much of the budget is funded by tuition vs donations vs research vs hospital etc.

 

[KnightDoc]

Two applicants - one seat. One has legacy and donor. Other has neither. All other things being equal, which one would you choose Mr Dean?

And for schools - every penny counts, I would think. I am not sure how much of the budget is funded by tuition vs donations vs research vs hospital etc.

Yeah, sounds great. All things are never equal. And every penny clearly doesn't count. The @Angus Avagadro gravy train ended, and although I have no idea where he completed his residency, I don't remember coming across a single MD school that closed its doors in the past 20 years due to every penny counting and one school coming up short due to his kid's permanent WL status.

FWIW, I'm sure every year there are at least enough people getting on the gravy train every year to compensate for those who get off, with none of them ever receiving what they hope for from the ride. Donations are just that, gifts. Givers of gifts do not expect anything in return. Otherwise, they are not gifts, and are not tax deductible. 😎

I'm sure schools collect millions of dollars a year in donations from people who think just like you. I'm equally sure hundreds or thousands of people every year are disappointed to learn all other things are never equal, and every penny doesn't count to the schools. If this were not so, I'm certain @Angus Avagadro would have had a different story to tell.

 

[r2med]

Yeah, sounds great. All things are never equal. And every penny clearly doesn't count. The @Angus Avagadro gravy train ended, and although I have no idea where he completed his residency, I don't remember coming across a single MD school that closed its doors in the past 20 years due to every penny counting.

FWIW, I'm sure every year there are at least enough people getting on the gravy train every year to compensate for those who get off, with none of them ever receiving what they hope from the ride. Donations are just that, gifts. Givers of gifts do not expect anything in return. Otherwise, they are not gifts, and are not tax deductible. 😎

I'm sure schools collect millions of dollars a year in donations from people who think just like you. I'm equally sure hundreds or thousands of people every year are disappointed to learn all other things are never equal, and every penny doesn't count to the schools.

Fundraising is clearly not your forte!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Two applicants - one seat. One has legacy and donor. Other has neither. All other things being equal, which one would you choose Mr Dean?

And for schools - every penny counts, I would think. I am not sure how much of the budget is funded by tuition vs donations vs research vs hospital etc.

Applicants are like fingerprints, no identical ones.

 

[deleted1066902]

how much does a seat to medical school cost lol? couple million at a minimum probably

 

[KnightDoc]

Fundraising is clearly not your forte!

True. And I'm sure the development folks are compensated based on their ability to attract donations. Unfortunately, I'm equally sure they don't have a seat on the adcom, and as a result don't have As to give out as rewards. Each and every donation is not life or death to the institution, and the entire system would become corrupt crap if people could buy their way into med school with relatively modest donations (even those that add up to significant money in the aggregate) spread over time.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm pretty sure Mr. Geffen, Mr. Perelman and Mr. Langone can influence a decision or two. As for the Anguses of the world, well, just ask him.

 

[r2med]

Applicants are like fingerprints, no identical ones.

So you are saying that adcoms never have to make a decision between two applicants who have almost all things alike?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

So you are saying that adcoms never have to make a decision between two applicants who have almost all things alike?

How can two candidates have exact same stats, ECs, LORs and very similar essays and then also meet gender, ethnicity, regional and other categories?

 

[r2med]

True. And I'm sure the development folks are compensated based on their ability to attract donations. Unfortunately, I'm equally sure they don't have a seat on the adcom, and as a result don't have As to give out as rewards. Each and every donation is not life or death to the institution, and the entire system would become corrupt crap if people could buy their way into med school with relatively modest donations (that definitely add up to significant money in the aggregate) spread over time.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm pretty sure Mr. Geffen, Mr. Perelman and Mr. Langone can influence a decision or two. As for the Anguses of the world, well, just ask him.

Glad seats are not for sale. That is the last thing we heard-working pre-meds need. My only argument was when comparing two to pick from, and one has a slight advantage, I would think they will go for that.

How can two candidates have exact same stats, ECs, LORs and very similar essays and then also meet gender, ethnicity, regional and other categories?

You are taking it literally, but I am talking about the need the select from similar candidates. I am not an adcom, but am sure there are several applicants who are pretty much alike, especially when each one is scored out of 1000s.

Anyways, enough hijacking of someone else's thread. Out!

 

[deleted1066902]

lmao dw you guys good! i just had a side question what’s the latest i can take the mcat and not be considered late? i’ll be applying this upcoming cycle

 

[r2med]

lmao dw you guys good! i just had a side question what’s the latest i can take the mcat and not be considered late? i’ll be applying this upcoming cycle

Now you are opening another can of worms 😛

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

You are taking it literally, but I am talking about the need the select from similar candidates. I am not an adcom, but am sure there are several applicants who are pretty much alike, especially when each one is scored out of 1000s.

Anyways, enough hijacking of someone else's thread. Out!

Tough to answer hypothetical situations 🙂 I still don't think any adcom will give the slight edge to physician kids esp in this social justice age.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

lmao dw you guys good! i just had a side question what’s the latest i can take the mcat and not be considered late? i’ll be applying this upcoming cycle

ideally you should have scores by May 1st so that you can focus on school list, PS and application and submit on day one. After that people talk about labor day rule.

 

[KnightDoc]

lmao dw you guys good! i just had a side question what’s the latest i can take the mcat and not be considered late? i’ll be applying this upcoming cycle

It's a great question, and is probably worthy of its own thread if you don't find the answer by doing a little searching. It comes up EVERY SINGLE year, and there are many layers to the answer that involve defining what is late and how important being early is, as well as determining when you can be ready, what your background is, what score you are shooting for, etc. Seriously, do a little research and then start a thread if you still want help.

Here's a head start -- most people would say you should be complete with EVERYTHING (transcripts verified, LORs received, secondaries in and MCAT score received) by Labor Day for MD (the DO cycle runs later), and you should never take the test before you are absolutely ready!! You need to take the MCAT waay before that in order to make the other things happen. Whether that's May, June or July is what you'll have to figure out, and it varies from person to person depending on some of the things I mentioned above! 😎

 

[HopeP]

I beg to differ little bit here. High schoolers kids of physicians certainly gets upper hand during high school and that helps them to get the opportunities, which are otherwise not available to a typical high schooler. This is evident from BS/MD programs admitted students profile every year. I don't have any data to back up same for UG kids, but I suspect it is meaningfully NOT different than any other privileged UG kids.

 

[KnightDoc]

I beg to differ little bit here. High schoolers kids of physicians certainly gets upper hand during high school and that helps them to get the opportunities, which are otherwise not available to a typical high schooler. This is evident from BS/MD programs admitted students profile every year. I don't have any data to back up same for UG kids, but I suspect it is meaningfully different than any other privileged UG kids.

Respectfully disagree. HS kids, sure. Parents can open doors for HS kids that are otherwise closed, but, for UG, opportunities are available for anyone motivated enough to seek them out, and advising is available for anyone who doesn't have a helicopter telling them what to do. 😎

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I beg to differ little bit here. High schoolers kids of physicians certainly gets upper hand during high school and that helps them to get the opportunities, which are otherwise not available to a typical high schooler. This is evident from BS/MD programs admitted students profile every year. I don't have any data to back up same for UG kids, but I suspect it is meaningfully NOT different than any other privileged UG kids.

May be easy to tag physicians since they are visible but other privileged ones may work behind the scenes or employ Mr. Singer.

 

[alm414]

Respectfully disagree. HS kids, sure. Parents can open doors for HS kids that are otherwise closed, but, for UG, opportunities are available for anyone motivated enough to seek them out, and advising is available for anyone who doesn't have a helicopter telling them what to do. 😎

“Opportunities are available for anyone motivated enough to seek them out” is a pretty naive view of the kinds of privileges/advantages we’re talking about here.

 

[KnightDoc]

“Opportunities are available for anyone motivated enough to seek them out” is a pretty naive view of the kinds of privileges/advantages we’re talking about here.

Perhaps. I was referring specifically to the types of opportunities @HopeP was referring to, namely, EC opportunities that HS kids of doctors have that allow them to gather experiences necessary to be competitive for BS/MD programs, and which are generally not available to typical 14-15 year olds. Once you get to UG, anyone who is motivated can seek them out and actually obtain them.

Of course, the benefits of privilege to which you are referring are an SES thing, not a physician thing, so that is something else entirely, and is not what either of us was talking about, at least not initially. I see @HopeP added a "not" to his post that totally changed the meaning of what he originally posted, as quoted in my post! 🙂

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

“Opportunities are available for anyone motivated enough to seek them out” is a pretty naive view of the kinds of privileges/advantages we’re talking about here.

Unless one goes to remote university or in a pandemic situation like now, finding shadowing, volunteering or research should not be that difficult for smart kids.

 

[Goro]

Two applicants - one seat. One has legacy and donor. Other has neither. All other things being equal, which one would you choose Mr Dean?

And for schools - every penny counts, I would think. I am not sure how much of the budget is funded by tuition vs donations vs research vs hospital etc.

MD schools actually lose money on tuition. A decent research dep't like Pathology, Cardiology, or Physiology can generate more money in indirects than than an entire class of med students.

Legacies are a real thing, but more likely lead people to having a very nice interview, followed by a nice spot on the wait list, eventually followed by a very polite rejection.

DO schools, which run leaner and aren't bothered by pesky accreditation requirements like research, can and do run off of tuition only.

 

[LaughingGas10]

MD schools actually lose money on tuition. A decent research dep't like Pathology, Cardiology, or Physiology can generate more money in indirects than than an entire class of med students.

Legacies are a real thing, but more likely lead people to having a very nice interview, followed by a nice spot on the wait list, eventually followed by a very polite rejection.

DO schools, which run leaner and aren't bothered by pesky accreditation requirements like research, can and do run off of tuition only.

Have to seriously disagree with the tone and connotations around this statement .

Do you seriously believe that medical schools should not do research and not contribute to the growth of medical science ?

If medical schools are not required to do research, and advance the medical field, where do you think the progress in the medical field will come from ?

 

[KnightDoc]

Have to seriously disagree with the tone and connotations around this statement .

Do you seriously believe that medical schools should not do research and not contribute to the growth of medical science ?

If medical schools are not required to do research, and advance the medical field, where do you think the progress in the medical field will come from ?

Just another reason DO is not close to equaling MD, regardless of what its proponents would like us to believe. 😎

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Have to seriously disagree with the tone and connotations around this statement .

Do you seriously believe that medical schools should not do research and not contribute to the growth of medical science ?

If medical schools are not required to do research, and advance the medical field, where do you think the progress in the medical field will come from ?

Respectfully, I didn't read anything like that. I'm sure he doesn't think medical schools should not do research. We all can/should agree on that. I read it as merely pointing out the fact that almost universally, DO schools perform far less research and have far less federal research funding than MD schools. Therfore, less money to move around therefore being more reliant on tuition. They do run leaner. They don't own the city blocks of buildings and research wings universities have to maintain . My former school didn't even own their buildings. They leased everything.