Choices...what is a "good match"

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by paumera, Oct 30, 2002.

  1. paumera

    paumera Member

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    I was wondering....
    I am sorting out which school I should attend. When I look at residency placements as an indicator of a schools "goodness" (all rankings aside) I wonder...is it really necessary to attend a school that places 20% of its class at Hopkins or Mass General? Granted the training may be better at some of these top hospitals, but in general, how much does your placement effect your future as a physician? And what about all those stats that you see - "80% matched to their 1st choice?" Isn't that to be taken with a grain of salt because it depends on where the students are encouraged to apply? For instance, I will probably attend Stony Brook...if I have solid step 1 scores, great letters, etc...am I precluded from attaining a top residency because of the school I went to? Or, should I even be so worried about all this, after all, I will be a physician - no matter where it may be.
     
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  3. TeinV

    TeinV Banned
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    it may be necessary (certainly very helpful) for you to get into powerhouse residencies like hopkins or mass gen if your intention is to become the next chief neurosurgeon. but if you want to go into less competitive fields like general peds or internal medicine, etc, it really doesn't matter where you go for your residency. at least according to the dean of admissions at tufts med.
     
  4. Joe Joe on da Radio

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    the more "preliminary" matches you see, the weaker the match list becomes.
     
  5. cabruen

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    An important point to remember is that the statistic "80% of XX get their tope choice" is meaningless. In fact, the NRMP has stopped publishing it.

    The reason is that the number is self selective. You list the residencies that you think you have a good chance at matching at. Just like with medical school applications, we all tend to apply to schools where we have a good chance of getting in. The same thing happens with residencies. I have been to several schools, and seen the residency match list. Every school (top-flight ones and low-end ones) all have students going off to tip-top residences. What I have notice is the distribution of residencies is very different at the schools. The residency list of Southwestern reads like anethes, derm, derm, derm, rad-onc, anthes, surg, etc. At a school like SLU, it was dominated much more by meds, peds, obgyn, surg. You seemed to see far fewer of the derms and anethes. I will leave it to the reader to speculate the reasons for this.

    So in the end, ignore the number. Look at the actual residencies that students are matching into. A top school will let have a higher percentage of their students going into the super competetive residencies, but if you are the top of the class at any school, you can get those also.
     
  6. MedApp2003

    MedApp2003 Senior Member

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    if you want a tip-top residency i think what medical school you go to does matter. if you don't wat a tip-top residency then don't worry about it.

    basically, i see it just like the debate over whether undergrad matters for med school. sure, if you do well at a podunk school you have a fighitng chance at a great medical school, but your path seems to be easier from a top undergrad (at least it is less risky). i would think the same is true for med school. sure if you go to a not higly ranked med school and do really well, you have a fighting chance at a top residency, but if you go to a top medical school, your path is easier. in fact, i think the effect of school on placement might be even more pronounced for residencies as opposed to med schools, because i think a lot of residency placement depends on connections, and really good med schools have more faculty with really good connections.

    just my two cents.
     
  7. Gumshoe

    Gumshoe LARGE Member

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    Where can one find the numbers for residency placements for each respective school? Thanks.

    Holla back,

    Gumshoe
     
  8. paumera

    paumera Member

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    hey...thank alot for the input...I guess there is that ever present desire to get into the "top" schools...the "top" residency slots...the "top" everything that always makes me nuts. I guess most of us feel that way because of what we aspire to...

    isn't there a better way to evaluate schools than the "US News" rankings based on reasearch dollars and questionable methods?

    and lets say I want to go into EM...Stony Brook placed 16 students in the field in 2002...(16/100), good news right? Go SB right?

    gumshoe...you can find most listings of placements by going to the general AAMC directory....http://www.aamc.org/meded/medschls/admissions.htm...clicking on the school of choice, and many of them have a direct link to the placements, but if not, I usually go to search-->match...and there is usually a page listed with the results.
     
  9. cabruen

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    I am sure your buddy over at AAMC can get them for you. ;)
     
  10. Sweet Tea

    Sweet Tea Girl Next Door
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    :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: LOL!!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
     
  11. Jim Picotte

    Jim Picotte Senior Member

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    For the number of prelim spots, you do know that in order to be a radiologist, ophthalmologist, anesthesiologist, dermatologist, physiatrist, radiation oncologist you need to do either a preliminary year or transitional year. Medical school reputation does matter though (they have that statistic in the U.S. News rankings), but most people will do their residency either in the same city or state as their medical school, so if you want to do a residency in California, a California medical school is a better bet than going to Harvard.
     
  12. Classof07

    Classof07 Member

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    I think that this topic is a good one because it's been on my mind a lot. Some good points have been raised, and I think it's important to realize that if you think or know you want to end up in one of the more competitive specialties (dermatology, ophthalmology, radiolgy, etc.) going to the 'best' medical school is somewhat important because it's easy to see, simply by perusing the various residency placements at the various med schools, where students are shipping off to [as an aside, I don't think that the year in-between medical school and these types of residency programs is referred to as a transitional year, rather, it is strictly a preliminary year; I was under the impression that the term 'transitional year' refers to someone who has yet to decide what type of residency program to apply to and is taking another year to do something else (whether it be more clinical rotations or what have you); I say this because when have you ever seen someone take a 'transitional year' at New York-Presbyterian? It's always at a place I've never heard of].
    As for the California point: I would agree that if you know you want to end up in California, you should go to a California school. Unfortunately, if you don't live in California, it's rather tough to assume you'll get into Stanford, UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, etc. However, many of the 'top' east coast schools (Columbia, Harvard, Penn, etc.) send a significant amount of students out west for residency programs (check their respective info should you visit the campus or website) [and, also, you can ship off to any number of places should you so desire if you go to one of those schools]. This goes along with a point discussed above by myself and others; namely, that you have more flexibility if you go to one of the 'best' medical schools in the country. I keep typing best in pseudo-quotes because 'best' certainly is a subjective term. If all you're life you've dreamed of becoming a doctor and you have no idea about specializing or where you want to practice or in what type of environment, you should be excited to go to a medical school that seems to fit you best based on what's available to you (i.e. where you interview) and what feels right. If, on the other hand, you know you're deadset on being a radiation oncologist at Mass General, it'd be in your favor if you somehow managed to get into Harvard [as an aside, did anyone else notice how eerie it is that about 50% of HMS graduates remain at HMS-affiliated hospital systems? I mean, sure, a lot of schools send the highest percentage of students to their own hospitals, but 50%? Sounds a bit inclusive to me].
    To give you my own personal experience: I work at the Hospital of UPenn in GI within the Dept. of Medicine. On the wall is a list of all of the Medicine Interns for the current year. A lot of them (I don't have the numbers because I'm home right now) are from Penn. There are some from NYU, Yale, Columbia, Case Western, Jefferson, Chicago, Harvard. And then there is a guy from University of Georgia. Now I don't know anything about that medical program, being from the northeast and all, and I can't say whether or not he had to graduate in the top of his class at Georgia to get to HUP. All I know is that he's there. So you can get wherever you want for residency, it's just that some schools feed into certain programs much easier than others. Just like college.
    As for me, I'm striving to go to the best damn medical school I can so that more doors are open for me in the future since I have no idea where I'm heading in the health care profession. Also, it seems that the 'best' medical schools have the most pretigious faculty, and though prestige is another one of those grey terms, these docs are at the forefront of their respective fields, meaning you'll be learning the newest/best treatment from the best specialists in your clinical years. Docs are 'less-tiered' schools may not be publishing as often or giving as many talks abroad. Does that matter? It depends. We'll all (hopefully) be going to CME (Continuing Medical Education) conferences in the future and whether we're at the podium or in the audience, we'll all be getting bottomless cups of coffee.

    JHU '02
    Some Medical School '07 and beyond.
     
  13. paean

    paean Senior Member

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    According to the MS4s at my school, you can do medicine internship, a surgery internship, or a transitional year before starting your anesthesiology/derm/ophto residency. The reason you don't see transitional years at some hospitals is that interns going into residencies that require a year of general something in advance are doing medicine or surgery at that hospital. But I'm still learning about the whole residency thing, so I could have misunderstood.
     
  14. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member

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    Hehehe....good call. :D :D :D
     
  15. paumera

    paumera Member

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    Okay...I don't get it. The AAMC link just contains links to all the med schools...who's my buddy? @$%*& AAMC - get them somewhere else...
     
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  17. Random Access

    Random Access 1K Member

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  18. paumera

    paumera Member

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    Thanks Random...I didn't get it...but NOW...LOL:clap: :clap: :clap:
     

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