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How said:
I never said you can't marry a woman you find attractive. This is only natural and expected.

I was referring to the prevalent and mediocre attitude of "me me" that a checklist implies compared to a "you you" which leads to success in life and in relationships also.
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bro, save the "you, you" crap for when your trying to pick up 18 yo freshman in a feminist studies class. It isn't flying here with guys who have some experience. The reality is that most people will not always be "givers." In order to be happy at least sometimes you have to "get" something back in return.

Relationships are about give and take, hopefully 50:50.

Don't think that sensitive metro sexual attitude will get you very far with women either.
 
Sometimes divorce is inevitable, sometimes it's because a person becomes involved in frugal and frivolous dating and that leaks over into their marriage. When you are always switching boyfriends you will be always switching husbands, generally speaking. I think the average divorce rate differs depending on race, careers, financial status, etc. If my wife is not working though, I am getting a pre-nup.
 
How said:
you're right that it won't get me far with most women.

I think you will learn eventually what I'm saying is truth.
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Yeah you're right... it will get you far enough with the ones that want to use you and spit you out.
 
How said:
you're right that it won't get me far with most women.

I think you will learn eventually what I'm saying is truth.
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Here is the thing, what I will be giving to my marriage is:

#1 My devoted and everlasting love.
#2 My $$$$
#3 My sperm


What ever the girl wants should fall under those categories. I.e. my wife wants the house painted, that goes under my $$$$.

What I ask for is a women who can take care of the kids with me, put out a solid amount, cook and clean, and go grocery shopping.

Seems like the typical american family to me (although it might not be the actual case). But it seems like the american dream for damn sure.
 
My focus is being happy. My dad told me I wouldn't be happy if my wife was ugly, I trust him he's a smart man. How can you love someone who never makes you happy?
 
the rules are clearly different if you are not pursuing an American woman, however, so How may have a point.
 
If I want I can go back to my parents' original country and pick out whatever woman I want and settle it right now.

The reality is, I won't get along with a girl that is a smoker, so I need a girl that is a non-smoker.

I can't cook, so if my wife can't cook we will starve to death.

I will not be home enough to keep the house clean, so if she doesn't clean our house will be extremely dirty, unless I hire topless maids or something.

Like, these are all regular things that people go through. I don't see how I am being demanding How?
 
How said:
Brazilian women are attractive in my eyes.

There are certain personalities I click with better to BUT my focus isn't, I want ___, ___, and definitely _____. My focus is on the type of person I am, my character, my attitude, my contribution, etc.

The rest works itself out.
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I too hold myself to a high standard regarding my character, attitude, and contribution (I'm assuming to a relationship). However, b/c I find those things important in myself I must have those things in my gf. If doesn't find those things important too then it won't work.
 
How said:
This is the flaw in the majority of American philosophy.

Your focus is on yourself. If you put the focus on making other people happy then magically you get what you want. It is an odd concept but is true.
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How, you are completely misunderstanding him.

He is not saying you HAVE to marry a model like Adriana or anything. He's just saying you should marry someone that you find attractive. If others thought your wife was super hot, but you yourself felt she was ugly, you would be unhappy, no? And conversely, if everyone thought your wife was ugly, but you thought she was beautiful, you would be happy, correct?

That's the point.
 
How said:
I am certain what I say is true.

One thing you must all understand is that I have never said you can't have what you want, but I have said the attitude you approach the scenario with will determine your success/happiness.
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The loser geek guys who try to make girls happy never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever get the girl. Ever. I used to be that guy. I'm done with that s**t, it's over.
 
oh... and the "rest works itself out" is crap. Things rarely "just work out"
 
once i find someone that makes me feel happy, like its a good fit, then of course i'm down to wine and dine her, but i expect that to be reciprocated.
 
rHinO1 said:
I too hold myself to a high standard regarding my character, attitude, and contribution (I'm assuming to a relationship). However, b/c I find those things important in myself I must have those things in my gf. If doesn't find those things important too then it won't work.
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Exactly, if I saved my virginity for 20+ years I would expect my wife to be a virgin, why else would I have saved it?
 
msb1190 said:
once i find someone that makes me feel happy, like its a good fit, then of course i'm down to wine and dine her, but i expect that to be reciprocated.
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With some type of sexual conquest?
 
there is an art to attracting the women you actually want. it involves being 65% a s s-hole, 35% sweet.
 
msb1190 said:
there is an art to attracting the women you actually want. it involves being 65% *******, 35% sweet.
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Something like that. You can't let them know you want them, or let them know your interested but that there are other girls trying to get with you. Basically, make them work and don't ever let them get bored. You can't be predictable.
 
oaklandguy said:
Something like that. You can't let them know you want them, or let them know your interested but that there are other girls trying to get with you. Basically, make them work and don't ever let them get bored. You can't be predictable.
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play it cool to a point. but once there is equal interest you can let your guard down little by little. being unpredictable is key in keeping a relationship fun.
 
msb1190 said:
and baked goods. maybe, a ball game. once she gets to know me, she knows i'm not hard to please.
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Yeah I feel you. I feel that is how most relationships work out. My mom still doesn't know a difference between a field goal in football or in basketball, but we have season tickets and we go to almost every game for both sports and she tags along and never complains. In return, she has a Lexus and nice purses and lives in a beautiful house and her husband goes with her to the movies and takes her out to fancy restaurants.

It is give and take. We are only talking about the taking part.

If we wanna talk about giving we can talk about sushi and going to the mall for shoe shopping, but then the thread would die instantly.
 
How said:
another flaw in attitude.

If you come expecting someone to make you feel happy you will fail.

Why?

Because 10 years from now maybe she won't make you feel happy anymore. Relationships end because they were based on ephemeral feelings and once the spark is gone the relationship ends.

As long as you focus on what you're getting, and not what your contributing, you will eventually be unhappy. It is a law of life, an unbreakable law.
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you sir, are missing the point. there has to be a connection. stop trying to harp on your point and actually take into consideration what everyone else is saying.
 
How said:
another flaw in attitude.

If you come expecting someone to make you feel happy you will fail.

Why?

Because 10 years from now maybe she won't make you feel happy anymore. Relationships end because they were based on ephemeral feelings and once the spark is gone the relationship ends.

As long as you focus on what you're getting, and not what your contributing, you will eventually be unhappy. It is a law of life, an unbreakable law.
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Not a temporary happiness dude! You fail to understand what we mean. Happiness in the long run. Everyone fights and is unhappy at times.

It's the type of happiness that keeps Christians believing in God even when their family members die young or when they lose their job.
 
Do you want to be this guy...
ladies-man


or this guy?

bishop-don-magic-juan.jpg
 
How said:
you guys are talking about persuading human beings. all human beings are attracted to scarce things and things that others want. This is social proof or band wagon theory.

Obviously you can persuade human beings to get your way.
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you're talking about this stuff like marriage is supposed to turn out like a fairy tale, love at first sight type of thing.
 
IndianVercetti said:
freud was right, everyone wants to marry a woman like their mother
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that's such an easy conclusion to come to though. it only works if you have a positive relationship with your mom though. if so, of course you'd want your SO to carry the same positive characteristics that your mom has.
 
How said:
you guys are talking about persuading human beings. all human beings are attracted to scarce things and things that others want. This is social proof or band wagon theory.

Obviously you can persuade human beings to get your way.
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Dude, I'm a middle eastern science major. Not exactly the most persuasive guy and not the type of guy depicted in movies as the casanova. Realistically, I'm completely different than the type of guy society tells women to go for.

From the dawn of time men have used simple techniques to obtain their females.

Example: Teasing a girl always helps draw interest in you. However, too much and you lose her. Moderation is key in the teasing flirting technique. You have to make the teasing funny as well.
 
IndianVercetti said:
you're talking about this stuff like marriage is supposed to turn out like a fairy tale, love at first sight type of thing.
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He sounds like he watches too many romantic comedies and has never had a gf in his life... imo
 
so, what is your point? it's life. shi t happens. deal with it. everyone needs something from someone else.
 
How said:
I understand your point and believe it is prevalent, but it is also the reason why divorce and unhappiness in marriage is prevalent. 50% get divorced and many more stay married when unhappy. What % of married people are happy? Certainly much less than the 50% that don't divorce.
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I think it is more likely people like you who think "things will just work out" find out that things don't just work out.

You've got to set yourself up for success by picking the right person and work on things.
 
rHinO1 said:
He sounds like he watches too many romantic comedies and has never had a gf in his life... imo
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Divorce happens because people get married too fast. Or because people are so used to breaking up due to having been in tons of frivolous relationships.

Sure there are other reasons, and some divorce is legitimate. But It's really not that hard to make a marriage last.

Saudi Arabia has a pretty low divorce rate compared to the U.S. and most marriages are arranged marriages in a country like that.
 
rHinO1 said:
I think it is more likely people like you who think "things will just work out" find out that things don't just work out.

You've got to set yourself up for success by picking the right person and work on things.
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bingo.

the woman of your dreams isn't just going to walk into your life and sit in your lap without any effort or game playing.
 
How said:
hmmm. No.

I'm talking about marriage being what life is about, contributing to other human beings and sacrificing your demands/desires/rights.

These are virtues that knights and men of honor live by.
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life is about whatever you want it to be.
 
How said:
hmmm. No.

I'm talking about marriage being what life is about, contributing to other human beings and sacrificing your demands/desires/rights.

These are virtues that knights and men of honor live by.
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There are sacrifices, and you are willing to sacrifice. But there are priorities in life and if a women doesn't fit my priorities then I am not willing to sacrifice for her. Get my drift?
 
How said:
hmmm. No.

I'm talking about marriage being what life is about, contributing to other human beings and sacrificing your demands/desires/rights.

These are virtues that knights and men of honor live by.
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how does this contradict the points we are bringing up? I think we are all going to be good husbands and follow the virtues you have just listed there.

the difference is, we want to be serving a woman that is worth our love/respect for - thus, standards
 
IndianVercetti said:
how does this contradict the points we are bringing up? I think we are all going to be good husbands and follow the virtues you have just listed there.

the difference is, we want to be serving a woman that is worth our love/respect for - thus, standards
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and that she also feels the same way. it's been said. its called give and take. not give give give like How is saying
 
msb1190 said:
bingo.

the woman of your dreams isn't just going to walk into your life and sit in your lap without any effort or game playing.
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You don't necessarily have to play the game, but you have to give an effort or at least let her know that you are interested. Game playing is for girls you don't know, but if I've worked with a girl for 3 years or something of that nature then I should just be able to be like, hey you are one of the cutest and coolest girls I've ever met, can I take you out for ice cream? It's not like some impossible task, but there definitely is effort and it takes balls.
 
How said:
I don't deny that it is possible some have the same philosophy and have not communicated it well. I was just pointing out the silliness of a checklist.
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It's not a checklist as much as it is a set of morals. I'm not going to kill babies, if being a doctor means I have to kill babies then I will not become a doctor.

It's the same concept. I will not raise kids who are second hand smokers, if you're a smoker I'm moving on.
 
yeah, you're right. the games are for people to get to know each other. i'm currently going through a bit of a game playing series, but i've got her best friend reporting to me and she says i'm doign something right because shes into me. say word.
 
How said:
the mistake is thinking that by finding the mental checklist woman of your dreams will make you happy.

You determine your happiness, it is of your control. A woman who is drop dead gorgeous or average will NOT determine your happiness.
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dawggg, you are killing me. i said earlier that there had to be a connection FIRST. its not all about beauty. you're just spitting words out to say something.
 
How said:
the mistake is thinking that by finding the mental checklist woman of your dreams will make you happy.

You determine your happiness, it is of your control. A woman who is drop dead gorgeous or average will NOT determine your happiness.
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no one here has said this

oaklandguy merely said that you should marry a woman that you personally find attractive, is that really such a hard request?

it doesn't need to be a woman that society deems as beautiful
 
How said:
I agree that most people have the attitude of give and take.

I also contend that most people fail and are unhappy.

Give give give is the best attitude you could possibly have.
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as a doctor, sure. as a spouse, hell no.
 
msb1190 said:
bingo.

the woman of your dreams isn't just going to walk into your life and sit in your lap without any effort or game playing.
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game recognizes game 👍
How said:
hmmm. No.

I'm talking about marriage being what life is about, contributing to other human beings and sacrificing your demands/desires/rights.

These are virtues that knights and men of honor live by.
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How said:
Only time will tell.

My attitude is focused on giving, contributing, and self-sacrifice. I can't quite tell what your attitude is focused on.
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Seriously, I treat women right. I'm not about using and abusing and I try to be honest with everyone. Especially people I care about. However, I don't waste my time romanticizing things and lying to myself. I don't think of relationships like I'm a knight, fairy, goblin, elf or any other such fantasy character. I am me... and life and relationships are the way they are. No point in lying to myself or making up an idealistic fairy tale.
 
mannnn i wish i was in on this thread earlier, this is the juiciest stuff thus far!

sad im not with my gf anymore though (or at least for the time being...) single and ready to mingle 😉

i just want to point out that with my experiences with women its not always about playing games or being hard to get, so i dont know if i can agree with all the stuff you guys were just saying....you need to be able to get a woman interested in you, but know your boundaries and be able to quickly understand hers ive been rejected far too many times for being to blunt, or playing too hard to get or being too much of an @ss
 
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