Class of 2023...will step 2 scores be required for interviews?

[Datypicalpremed]

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With step 1 becoming P\F Jan 2022, I can easily see some class of 2023 students purposely delaying step 1 by a year for the purpose of getting a P/F score. Meaning that for residency programs in this cycle, they will likely receive a mix of scored and P/F step 1 apps. Do you think they will thus require step 2 scores before sending interviews out?

 

[Dral]

I’m not sure any concrete decision has been made yet. My guess is that not a lot of people will apply, especially to competitive specialties, with a p/f step 1 and no step 2 (no scored exam on app).

 

[Captain_Falcon]

Idk how many will deliberately delay step 1 just because it will be p/f. For multiple reasons (1) many schools require you to take it before starting clerkships (2) at least at my school the vast majority of the class seems to be grateful that we, class of '23, actually have a graded step 1 (3) many ppl need to know if they will be competitive for certain specialties so taking a scored step 1 let's them deviate from the "____ all or nothing" roulette basket

 

[Redpancreas]

With step 1 becoming P\F Jan 2022, I can easily see some class of 2023 students purposely delaying step 1 by a year for the purpose of getting a P/F score. Meaning that for residency programs in this cycle, they will likely receive a mix of scored and P/F step 1 apps. Do you think they will thus require step 2 scores before sending interviews out?

The class of 2023 is nearing the end of their M2 curriculum and they will be taking Step 1 soon. I suppose some schools have the option of taking Step 1 in M3 and if they do this after Jan of M3 they will get a P/F score. I don't think most will be in that situation. Thus there will be still a lot of scaled scores in circulation during your application season so your class effectively has a scored Step 1. This will have varying effects on applications depending on your field. For IM, if you look at the NRMP PD survey, you will see Step 2 CK is already a more important selection factor than Step 1. I don't think the class of 2023 will see a lot of programs will have an explicit requirement to have Step 2 CK prior to interviewing. That said, it will be an unspoken requirement to have it before an interview is granted for IM. To speak from my experience, even a few years back a lot of competitive places didn't send an interview if Step 2 CK wasn't in the books yet. You have plenty of time to take it as most places end M3 by May-June and you have until September to take it. If Step 2 CK isn't in the books when you interview, the programs will most definitely be waiting for it before ranking you (which many IM places already do).

As for class of 2024, everyone will have a P/F score unless they're crazy and take Step 1 early (Jan of M2 year). I think at this point schools/individuals have had enough time to see this coming to where they can effectively require applicants to have Step 2 CK prior interviewing. Again, it's not like applicants will not have time as there are a solid 5 months between M3 and when ERAS goes out. I think a lot of people are waiting to see what happens with C/o 2023 first before making that announcement. You definitely won't be ranked or considered favorably if you don't have the Step 2 CK by rank deadline (February of M4).

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In regards to other fields, I think what Dral points out is correct. Maybe for C/O 2023 if you kill Step 1, you may be able to slide in without Step 2 CK for some surgical subspecialty if you have all the other stuff like favorable away reviews, letters, research, etc. Otherwise, I think most applicants who want competitive fields will find a way to get Step 2 CK done before interviewing which will then effectively make that the standard moving forward.

 

[drducky.]

With step 1 becoming P\F Jan 2022, I can easily see some class of 2023 students purposely delaying step 1 by a year for the purpose of getting a P/F score. Meaning that for residency programs in this cycle, they will likely receive a mix of scored and P/F step 1 apps. Do you think they will thus require step 2 scores before sending interviews out?

If you were a program director and you receive 1000 apps with a step 1 score and 50 apps without a score, would you care that the apps are mixed?

 

[efle]

If you were a program director and you receive 1000 apps with a step 1 score and 50 apps without a score, would you care that the apps are mixed?

It's gonna be a lot more than 5% with a Pass, many people have the option of scheduling dedicated some time during MS3 instead of prior to the wards.

Here's how I'd think about it. PDs were sorting the pile by the Step 1 excel column. Now they will be sorting the pile by the Step 2 excel column. Behave accordingly (2 month dedicated for CK so you can do all of Step 2 Uworld leading into the test would be my move).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The class of 2023 is nearing the end of their M2 curriculum and they will be taking Step 1 soon. I suppose some schools have the option of taking Step 1 in M3 and if they do this after Jan of M3 they will get a P/F score.

My school has a 1.5 year preclerkship curriculum. We’ve been in rotations for almost 6 months and are MS3s now (actually as of Monday lol). But we don’t have the option to take Step 1 until after a year of rotations, a little more than halfway though M3. So it will be p/f for us. Not sure how many other schools are like this.

I don't think most will be in that situation. Thus there will be still a lot of scaled scores in circulation during your application season so your class effectively has a scored Step 1. This will have varying effects on applications depending on your field. For IM, if you look at the NRMP PD survey, you will see Step 2 CK is already a more important selection factor than Step 1.

I know at least one PD has said they will blind the step 1 scores so they aren’t judging a scored step to a pass.

I don't think the class of 2023 will see a lot of programs will have an explicit requirement to have Step 2 CK prior to interviewing. That said, it will be an unspoken requirement to have it before an interview is granted for IM. To speak from my experience, even a few years back a lot of competitive places didn't send an interview if Step 2 CK wasn't in the books yet. You have plenty of time to take it as most places end M3 by May-June and you have until September to take it. If Step 2 CK isn't in the books when you interview, the programs will most definitely be waiting for it before ranking you (which many IM places already do).

Yeah, I have been told by several people that it will effectively be required for most specialties because they will want some kind of objective score.

 

[Lucca]

Even if Step 2 CK isn't required prior to ERAS, everyone acting in unison as if it is (which *will* be the case), will effectively mean that it is. Not planning is also a form of planning but med ed doesnt seem to care a whole lot about that.

 

[Elite Medical Prep]

I imagine that it will not look good if a student delays Step 1 for a year so that they can take the P/F version if their graduation year indicates that they should have taken the scored version. I suppose a student could take 1-2 years in between M1 and M2 for research or a masters, but this would make it hard to hold on to the material for Step 1 and is a huge gamble. If one applicant has a P grade, and another applicant has a scored grade, and both are otherwise equal, I imagine that the applicant with the score would be the more reliable choice for the spot.

- Eric

 

[Lawpy]

I think we need a master thread for all things related to post-P/F Step 1 residency process

 

[Lucca]

I imagine that it will not look good if a student delays Step 1 for a year so that they can take the P/F version if their graduation year indicates that they should have taken the scored version. I suppose a student could take 1-2 years in between M1 and M2 for research or a masters, but this would make it hard to hold on to the material for Step 1 and is a huge gamble. If one applicant has a P grade, and another applicant has a scored grade, and both are otherwise equal, I imagine that the applicant with the score would be the more reliable choice for the spot.

- Eric

I very strongly doubt it will make a difference.

Tbh if I was a PD and a student had a choice and took it for a score I’d be like “why....”. Only reason I am is to have it done before phd start.

 

[Phloston]

With step 1 becoming P\F Jan 2022, I can easily see some class of 2023 students purposely delaying step 1 by a year for the purpose of getting a P/F score. Meaning that for residency programs in this cycle, they will likely receive a mix of scored and P/F step 1 apps. Do you think they will thus require step 2 scores before sending interviews out?

Once Step 1 goes to P/F, doubt anyone would get an interview without 2CK. Your question should be, would you get an interview without Step 1.

 

[Phloston]

I know at least one PD has said they will blind the step 1 scores so they aren’t judging a scored step to a pass.

Seems they want to be intentionally ignorant.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Seems they want to be intentionally ignorant.

I mean, they are trying to level the playing field. Not everyone has a choice to take it scored, so by saying they will just not look at any of the step 1 scores, that prevents discrimination against the people who can’t take it scored. And everyone can take step 2.

 

[Lawpy]

Why not implement @efle plan and convert all Step 1 scores to P/F effectively 2023 onwards?

 

[Phloston]

I mean, they are trying to level the playing field. Not everyone has a choice to take it scored, so by saying they will just not look at any of the step 1 scores, that prevents discrimination against the people who can’t take it scored. And everyone can take step 2.

If a student worked hard and earned a high numerical Step 1 (or performed poorly), that shouldn't be blinded in my view.

Students who take the Step 1 P/F theoretically have an advantage on 2CK in that they can just focus on the latter earlier perhaps. Those who take the numerical Step 1 need to devote a serious period of time to that over 2CK.

I think all available data for each applicant should be viewed and then people should just make complex decisions. It's called life.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

If a student worked hard and earned a high numerical Step 1 (or performed poorly), that shouldn't be blinded in my view.

Students who take the Step 1 P/F theoretically have an advantage on 2CK in that they can just focus on the latter earlier perhaps. Those who take the numerical Step 1 need to devote a serious period of time to that over 2CK.

I think all available data for each applicant should be viewed and then people should just make complex decisions. It's called life.

If you performed poorly, you might be looked at less favorably than a pass. If you score highly, then you will looked at more favorably than someone with a pass. People have biases. It’s easier to just blind.

 

[Lawpy]

If you performed poorly, you might be looked at less favorably than a pass. If you score highly, then you will looked at more favorably than someone with a pass. People have biases. It’s easier to just blind.

How is a low score worse than a pass if by definition a low score is a pass, since a fail would be specified in both cases?

 

[Phloston]

If you performed poorly, you might be looked at less favorably than a pass. If you score highly, then you will looked at more favorably than someone with a pass. People have biases. It’s easier to just blind.

I can understand the sentiment, although I'd be against the blinding if at x institution. Yet again, each program does things differently.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

How is a low score worse than a pass if by definition a low score is a pass, since a fail would be specified in both cases?

I said might. If someone barely passed, that will be looked at as not great in most fields. A pass might just be a net neutral, which would be better than a negative mark.

 

[Lawpy]

I said might. If someone barely passed, that will be looked at as not great in most fields. A pass might just be a net neutral, which would be better than a negative mark.

*shrug*

Even more a reason to just convert all Step 1 scores to P/F for 2023 to avoid these subjective interpretations.