Classes with Med students

[Northside]

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What do you guys think the pros/cons are of a curriculum in which dental students share classes with med students early on?

Also, why would a school do this?

 

[achilles2]

These schools usually view dentistry as a sub specialty of medicine. Observing oral health provides a window to overall systemic health (often those with poor systemic health have poor oral health) and various medical conditions show oral symptoms.

If you want to view yourself as a tooth driller and nothing more then taking a medical based route would seem counter productive and time intensive. If you want to make dentistry something more then drilling and filling many ambitious students would value a medical based education.

The only four schools that I know that have this program (share the first year and change or two years with medical students) are:

Columbia
Stony Brook
Harvard
UConn

All four programs are excellent and produce outstanding dentists. Also many dental programs are offering post grad MD specialties. (the most commonly known is OMFS)

 

[Black Teeth]

What do you guys think the pros/cons are of a curriculum in which dental students share classes with med students early on?

Also, why would a school do this?

It depends if the dental school provides traditional letter grades. If so, you might want to check if you are competing against the med students for grades. If the dental school is pass/ fail then I don't think it matters much.

I think some schools do this for practical reasons. It costs more money for the school to teach the same class twice. Most professors are at a school to mainly do research. Teaching tends to be an obligation that comes with it. It's not their main priority.

 

[NyCzPeter]

I think its a great thing and I wonder why other school don't do it. After all, dentistry is nothing but the branch of medicine that deals with the oral cavity and surrounding structures, so some overall systemic knowledge should be necessary to put things into perspective.

 

[glk2101]

i would think the medical curriculum would help more for omfs placing..what do you guys think?

 

[Danny289]

i would think the medical curriculum would help more for omfs placing..what do you guys think?

first two years( maybe year and half) are science courses like biochemistry, A&P, histology and... all are almost same for medical and dental schools.

 

[sccr1313]

These schools usually view dentistry as a sub specialty of medicine. Observing oral health provides a window to overall systemic health (often those with poor systemic health have poor oral health) and various medical conditions show oral symptoms.

If you want to view yourself as a tooth driller and nothing more then taking a medical based route would seem counter productive and time intensive. If you want to make dentistry something more then drilling and filling many ambitious students would value a medical based education.

The only four schools that I know that have this program (share the first year and change or two years with medical students) are:

Columbia
Stony Brook
Harvard
UConn

All four programs are excellent and produce outstanding dentists. Also many dental programs are offering post grad MD specialties. (the most commonly known is OFMS)

Western U also plans on integrating the basic science courses with their med students.

 

[Oracle DMD]

i like that we don't have classes w/ the med students! we share science faculty, and even tho we cover the same stuff a lot, our curriculum is tailored to dentistry. so when we get our pathology lectures, it focuses more on oral, head, and neck manifestations of the diseases which will make us better at what WE do. it's more customed than the med school stuff. They still teach us everything, but they are more likely to test us and focus on the dental aspects.

 

[achilles2]

Western U also plans on integrating the basic science courses with their med students.

Really?

I was unsure about other programs, I only knew those four.

 

[nydds25]

Really?

I was unsure about other programs, I only knew those four.

Perhaps he mean's like NOVA or some others do it, where there are some common courses, like physiology, etc. Its not the same as the four schools mentioned above where it is all the basic science with the meds.

 

[cherr1pop]

i personally chose schools that don't share classes with med schools cause i heard it's harder for dental students cause we're expected to know all the med stuff + dental stuff in depth. i guess it could help with omfs as others have said. i think having just dental students in class could help us on the boards and such cause the professors would teach more tailored to our boards... (although i'm not sure how different the two are for basic sciences)

 

[RAK1987]

i personally chose schools that don't share classes with med schools cause i heard it's harder for dental students cause we're expected to know all the med stuff + dental stuff in depth. i guess it could help with omfs as others have said. i think having just dental students in class could help us on the boards and such cause the professors would teach more tailored to our boards... (although i'm not sure how different the two are for basic sciences)

the funny thing is that the schools that have integrated dental/medical curricula have some of the highest boards scores in the country.

 

[RAK1987]

it just depends on what you want. i want a medical based science curriculum b/c i love learning about how oral cavity integrates into overall systemic health. i think that going to a med based school may stand out when applying for specialties.

also - ppl on here always says to "beware of integrated curriculum because you will be compared to the med students." so what? i could have been pre-med if i wanted. i have the brains and the dedication to do just as well, if not better than any med student in the country. it really annoys me that some pre-dents are scared of being compared to med students.... it's almost like they think we are going to dental school b/c we're not as smart or can't hack it.

sorry for the rant. i just hate when ppl sell pre-dents and dental students short...

 

[Black Teeth]

it just depends on what you want. i want a medical based science curriculum b/c i love learning about how oral cavity integrates into overall systemic health. i think that going to a med based school may stand out when applying for specialties.

also - ppl on here always says to "beware of integrated curriculum because you will be compared to the med students." so what? i could have been pre-med if i wanted. i have the brains and the dedication to do just as well, if not better than any med student in the country. it really annoys me that some pre-dents are scared of being compared to med students.... it's almost like they think we are going to dental school b/c we're not as smart or can't hack it.

sorry for the rant. i just hate when ppl sell pre-dents and dental students short...

Relax...don't get all bent out of shape about this. It's not an issue of dental students vs. medical students or who is smarter. It's much more practical than that. At many schools with dual medical and dental programs, the dental school course load for the first two years is much heavier than the medical school course load. Not only does the dental student have to take the majority of the same courses as the medical student, he/ she has to take the dental courses in addition to that. First two years of dental school is crazy!!! The medical students at many schools have a more reasonable course load because their profession is spread out over a greater number of years whereas our course load for the entire dental school career is squeezed and packed into 4 measly years. I once took 15 final exams in one week whereas the medical students only took half as many. Clearly, if dental students and medical students had to compete for grades with one another in the same class, the medical students have a HUGE advantage over dental students in terms of fewer classes, fewer exams, and more time to study for those exams. This advantage that the medical students have will hurt those dental students who are trying to get into a specialty program where it's important to get good grades. Admisssions committee for specialty programs don't care if the reason why your grades are lower is because the medical students had an unfair advantage. They are not going to make an exception. If you do not have the grades, they will not give you an interview. It's as simple as that. So not everything is about us (dentists) versus them (doctors). It's more about putting yourself in a position to get the best grades possible so that you can specialize if that is your long term goal. Therefore, you are overlooking a practical reason for wanting to know if you are competing against medical students in your classes. Furthermore, I'm not saying that the medical school course load is easy…it's not at all. Their course load gets crazy hard further down the road later in their schooling. Both professional schools are difficult…but they are difficult in different ways.

P.S. - Don't underestimate the possibility that you may one day decide to go into a dental specialty. Many people go to dental school with the idea of going into general dentisty and later change their minds and now want to specialize. If that could be the case, they need to consider the pros and cons of a medical based science curriculum where the dental and medical students are in the same class and ask more details regarding the grading system and take that into consideration when choosing which dental school to attend. Knowing all the facts before you make a decision is never a bad thing.

 

[iJackTeeth]

Western U college of dental medicine students will take classes with the DO students

including the medical school equivalent of sim lab, which is called "essentials of clinical medicine"

 

[RAK1987]

Relax...don't get all bent out of shape about this. It's not an issue of dental students vs. medical students or who is smarter. It's much more practical than that. At many schools with dual medical and dental programs, the dental school course load for the first two years is much heavier than the medical school course load. Not only does the dental student have to take the majority of the same courses as the medical student, he/ she has to take the dental courses in addition to that. First two years of dental school is crazy!!! The medical students at many schools have a more reasonable course load because their profession is spread out over a greater number of years whereas our course load for the entire dental school career is squeezed and packed into 4 measly years. I once took 15 final exams in one week whereas the medical students only took half as many. Clearly, if dental students and medical students had to compete for grades with one another in the same class, the medical students have a HUGE advantage over dental students in terms of fewer classes, fewer exams, and more time to study for those exams. This advantage that the medical students have will hurt those dental students who are trying to get into a specialty program where it's important to get good grades. Admisssions committee for specialty programs don't care if the reason why your grades are lower is because the medical students had an unfair advantage. They are not going to make an exception. If you do not have the grades, they will not give you an interview. It's as simple as that. So not everything is about us (dentists) versus them (doctors). It's more about putting yourself in a position to get the best grades possible so that you can specialize if that is your long term goal. Therefore, you are overlooking a practical reason for wanting to know if you are competing against medical students in your classes. Furthermore, I'm not saying that the medical school course load is easy…it's not at all. Their course load gets crazy hard further down the road later in their schooling. Both professional schools are difficult…but they are difficult in different ways.

P.S. - Don't underestimate the possibility that you may one day decide to go into a dental specialty. Many people go to dental school with the idea of going into general dentisty and later change their minds and now want to specialize. If that could be the case, they need to consider the pros and cons of a medical based science curriculum where the dental and medical students are in the same class and ask more details regarding the grading system and take that into consideration when choosing which dental school to attend. Knowing all the facts before you make a decision is never a bad thing.

sorry. i wasn't trying to get too huffy about it. anyways - i do know that UConn (i'm not sure about the other integrated schools) has separate averages for the dental and medical schools on exams. they separate the grades of the classes into dental and medical grades to avoid exactly what you are talking about... which as previously stated is a good thing for us.

 

[Plopper]

sorry. i wasn't trying to get too huffy about it. anyways - i do know that UConn (i'm not sure about the other integrated schools) has separate averages for the dental and medical schools on exams. they separate the grades of the classes into dental and medical grades to avoid exactly what you are talking about... which as previously stated is a good thing for us.

really?? bc when i talked to people they told me that the dental students are graded WITH the med students... ie the pass is set at XX and both med and dental students need to have scored above.

do you mean that they calculate average score for med vs dentals, or do you mean that we have a different pass requirement score?

 

[RAK1987]

really?? bc when i talked to people they told me that the dental students are graded WITH the med students... ie the pass is set at XX and both med and dental students need to have scored above.

do you mean that they calculate average score for med vs dentals, or do you mean that we have a different pass requirement score?

they set the pass requirement based on the med and dental scores. but the averages to see what "grade" you would have gotten are split for dental and med. it is a p/f curriculum but they keep hard numbers on record so that way if someone needs a gpa calculated, they can do it. so yes, our scores would only be compared to the dental average. which is normally waaaay above pass.

 

[armorshell]

These schools usually view dentistry as a sub specialty of medicine. Observing oral health provides a window to overall systemic health (often those with poor systemic health have poor oral health) and various medical conditions show oral symptoms.

If you want to view yourself as a tooth driller and nothing more then taking a medical based route would seem counter productive and time intensive. If you want to make dentistry something more then drilling and filling many ambitious students would value a medical based education.

Just a few notes:

1. Unless these schools are supplementing you're clinical experience in 3rd in 4th years with IM and OB/GYN rotations, you're not getting a medically based route. A majority of a budding physician's learning happens in their clinical years and residency (The same for dentistry), which are the years you aren't getting exposed to.

2. Implying that all schools that aren't glommed into classes with med students are "just tooth drillers" is at least uninformed and more on the lines of offensive. It's SDN mythology that you don't learn the oral/systemic relations or the medical side of dentistry at school where you don't take classes with med students. I'd submit that you potentially focus MORE on these things at "pure" dental schools, simply because the only audience you're teaching to is dentists.

 

[achilles2]

Just a few notes:

1. Unless these schools are supplementing you're clinical experience in 3rd in 4th years with IM and OB/GYN rotations, you're not getting a medically based route. A majority of a budding physician's learning happens in their clinical years and residency (The same for dentistry), which are the years you aren't getting exposed to.

2. Implying that all schools that aren't glommed into classes with med students are "just tooth drillers" is at least uninformed and more on the lines of offensive. It's SDN mythology that you don't learn the oral/systemic relations or the medical side of dentistry at school where you don't take classes with med students. I'd submit that you potentially focus MORE on these things at "pure" dental schools, simply because the only audience you're teaching to is dentists.

Perhaps the wording of my statement could be taken in the wrong tone. I think you know that I would not disrespect that field I chose as a career.

I am NOT saying those that don't take classes with med students are mindless drones, I just get annoyed when people complain "Oh why do I have to study renal function when I am going to be a dentist."

Personally I think taking courses with the medical students is a good idea as it tends to help the bond between physician and dentist, as you know the field of dentistry has evolved rapidly especially in the last 10 years. Dentists are far more then filler and drillers now and THAT was the main point of my statement.

I know that regardless if you take courses with the medical students the course load in dental school is intensive and ranged. I do get annoyed when people attempt to "bash" the programs that integrate dental and medical courses as those that don't produce good clinical dentists.

Bottom line you could go to ANY school in the country and come out an outstanding dentist. That should be the first and most important goal, however, I do value the integration of the medical and dental community.

 

[Upenn08]

I am pretty sure that the integration of medical and dental classes is not for every school. Do you seriously think that students from, say, USC/NYU/Tufts dental want/need to know all the medical details? I don't think so.

Only the top students want/need those details and it is not coincidental that those schools happened to be top 4 dental schools in the nation (Harvard, Columbia, Stony Brook, UConn) with the highest board 1 score.

 

[Oracle DMD]

I am pretty sure that the integration of medical and dental classes is not for every school. Do you seriously think that students from, say, USC/NYU/Tufts dental want/need to know all the medical details? I don't think so.

Only the top students want/need those details and it is not coincidental that those schools happened to be top 4 dental schools in the nation (Harvard, Columbia, Stony Brook, UConn) with the highest board 1 score.

wow. complete garbage. a) the notion of a "top" dental school. b) the notion that only the top students need the medical details that you're saying aren't being taught at some dental school because their classes are not graced with the presence of med students! hahaha laughable.

 

[armorshell]

I am pretty sure that the integration of medical and dental classes is not for every school. Do you seriously think that students from, say, USC/NYU/Tufts dental want/need to know all the medical details? I don't think so.

Only the top students want/need those details and it is not coincidental that those schools happened to be top 4 dental schools in the nation (Harvard, Columbia, Stony Brook, UConn) with the highest board 1 score.

You've made it clear in your last few posts that you neither understand nor comprehend how dental education works at any school. All dental students receive an in depth education in basic medical science, and NO dental student (including those at your "top" schools) receives a medical education.

I'll say that the breadth and requirements in the basic science courses at the integrated med/dent schools may have a wider scope, but I can't truly say. During my boards studying, I used several USMLE materials and there was very little I found that wasn't presented at my non-medical student integrated school.

 

[yellowtibby]

While it's true that UConn med and dent students take the same exams during the first two years, the dental students have a lower "pass" score compared to the med students. Therefore a dental student might only have to score a 60 on the exam to pass whereas the med student has to score a 75 which I think is fair.

 

[Plopper]

While it's true that UConn med and dent students take the same exams during the first two years, the dental students have a lower "pass" score compared to the med students. Therefore a dental student might only have to score a 60 on the exam to pass whereas the med student has to score a 75 which I think is fair.

oh how fantastic!! that takes a ton of pressure off (but i'm still going to destroy those med students!)

 

[armorshell]

oh how fantastic!! that takes a ton of pressure off (but i'm still going to destroy those med students!)

Good luck on that. Remember med students have 50% the class load that you will, and thus have 2-3x as much time to study for the exact same test.

 

[iJackTeeth]

Good luck on that. Remember med students have 50% the class load that you will, and thus have 2-3x as much time to study for the exact same test.

why is that?

 

[armorshell]

why is that?

Because they take fewer credits and have no dental classes/labs. For an example I just googlized, Columbia first year medical students have 5 classes that I count. For dental students I count 13. I'm sure the number of credit hours in each class doesn't balance out to a straight 13:5 ratio, but you see the point.

 

[iJackTeeth]

Because they take fewer credits and have no dental classes/labs.

so would it be safe to say that dental school is tougher, more rigorous than med school?

 

[armorshell]

so would it be safe to say that dental school is tougher, more rigorous than med school?

No, it wouldn't. There's too many factors to consider in that. I'd definitely be willing to say you take more classes, have more projects and probably have less time to study for the biomedical sciences classes in the pre-clinical years.

 

[sajjy]

While it's true that UConn med and dent students take the same exams during the first two years, the dental students have a lower "pass" score compared to the med students. Therefore a dental student might only have to score a 60 on the exam to pass whereas the med student has to score a 75 which I think is fair.

Get your facts straightened out before you enter UCHC thinking you will be smarter than the dental students. And just for the example, on HB1 (Human Biology 1, in case you dont know), the passing score for med students was 63 and for dental students was 61. And many at times dental students have done better than the medical students.

 

[glk2101]

Because they take fewer credits and have no dental classes/labs. For an example I just googlized, Columbia first year medical students have 5 classes that I count. For dental students I count 13. I'm sure the number of credit hours in each class doesn't balance out to a straight 13:5 ratio, but you see the point.

new curriculum will make it easier for us

 

[seaweed719]

I used to be a believer that dental students should follow a more integrated curriculum that covers the entire human body with the same amount of emphasis as med school curriculum. I too believe that dentists should do more than just drilling and should take on a more active role in treating patients' systemic health. But now I want to caution those who believe that taking classes with med students will give you significant advantages in becoming a more well-rounded or holistic practitioner.

Why?

First of all, almost all physicians gain their clinical skills through internship rotations and three or more years of residency training. Memorizing biomedical facts doesn't make you a competent or even qualified practitioner. Yes, it sounds all fun to learn more about the human body and diseases, but as it turns out, what's taught in the textbooks are usually significantly different from what's happening realisticly. And there is simply no way you can make up your clinical skills besides spending vast amount of time in real practice.

Second, dentists' scope of practice is not limited by their lack of knowledge or experience, but by law. There are simply certain things that a dentist cannot do unless he is licensed to do so. Having the authority to prescribe certain medications and perform some invasive procedures makes a world of difference.

Third, as pointed out by some others, materials presented in dentistry-oriented curriculum are not as narrow as some people believe them to be. Most importantly, I would rather focus on information relevant to oral cavity first.

Unless there is a major expansion of dentists' role in public health, I don't see any upgrade of their scope of practice coming anytime soon.

 

[gryffindor]

I am NOT saying those that don't take classes with med students are mindless drones, I just get annoyed when people complain "Oh why do I have to study renal function when I am going to be a dentist."

Personally I think taking courses with the medical students is a good idea as it tends to help the bond between physician and dentist, as you know the field of dentistry has evolved rapidly especially in the last 10 years. Dentists are far more then filler and drillers now and THAT was the main point of my statement.

I studied renal function at various levels 4 times before I even got to dental school: high school biology, AP Biology, college Endocrinology, college Histology. Then I studied it a few more times in my first year of dental school - Gross Anatomy, Histology, and Physiology. I've been out 4 years and I STILL DON'T CARE about renal function. I went to dental school to learn about teeth and the oral cavity and the head and neck and was sick of learning about the kidneys 7 times before I even got a chance to study anything about enamel.

When I was in my first and second years of dental school we had most of our basic science courses with the med students. 150 med students, 90 dental students in one giant lecture hall. I had a med student roommate at the time. I lost count of how many times her friends would look at me like I was from another planet when I pointed out that I had been in the same lecture hall with them that morning. They'd say "What? There are dental students in our Path class?" Um yeah, didn't you notice the 90 extra unfamiliar faces in the lecture hall today? As much as you want to fantasize about integration of the two fields, it doesn't happen at the D1/D2 and M1/M2 levels. It might happen at the residency and practice levels when you actually start practicing in your fields.

I think there was a slight advantage to learning extra medical minutia. There were a few questions on my Part I board exam that I had only seen on some random Microbiology powerpoint in class and hadn't reviewed anywhere in the Dental Decks or the USMLE First Aid and other review books. The more medical minutia you can memorize, the better your odds at upping your Part I score.

 

[gryffindor]

2. Implying that all schools that aren't glommed into classes with med students are "just tooth drillers" is at least uninformed and more on the lines of offensive. It's SDN mythology that you don't learn the oral/systemic relations or the medical side of dentistry at school where you don't take classes with med students. I'd submit that you potentially focus MORE on these things at "pure" dental schools, simply because the only audience you're teaching to is dentists.

LOL armorshell, "SDN mythology." The mythology has been extra heavy this year. I've had to point out the inaccuracies on the pre-dent board way more times this year than in years past.

 

[achilles2]

I studied renal function at various levels 4 times before I even got to dental school: high school biology, AP Biology, college Endocrinology, college Histology. Then I studied it a few more times in my first year of dental school - Gross Anatomy, Histology, and Physiology. I've been out 4 years and I STILL DON'T CARE about renal function. I went to dental school to learn about teeth and the oral cavity and the head and neck and was sick of learning about the kidneys 7 times before I even got a chance to study anything about enamel.

When I was in my first and second years of dental school we had most of our basic science courses with the med students. 150 med students, 90 dental students in one giant lecture hall. I had a med student roommate at the time. I lost count of how many times her friends would look at me like I was from another planet when I pointed out that I had been in the same lecture hall with them that morning. They'd say "What? There are dental students in our Path class?" Um yeah, didn't you notice the 90 extra unfamiliar faces in the lecture hall today? As much as you want to fantasize about integration of the two fields, it doesn't happen at the D1/D2 and M1/M2 levels. It might happen at the residency and practice levels when you actually start practicing in your fields.

I think there was a slight advantage to learning extra medical minutia. There were a few questions on my Part I board exam that I had only seen on some random Microbiology powerpoint in class and hadn't reviewed anywhere in the Dental Decks or the USMLE First Aid and other review books. The more medical minutia you can memorize, the better your odds at upping your Part I score.

Humans by nature bond when placed in a similar challenging situtation, may it be athletics or academics. By placing medical and dental students in the same core curriculum for general didactics it tends to help the bonding. Of course rotations where you are sleep deprived and over worked tends to help bond groups of MD's closer togather. But the difference in education should be rotations and clinical and perhaps some upper level specilization courses. Do dentists really need to know all there is about toes? Odds are their time is better spent studying the oral cavity. So some modification to critical courses like gross anatomy should be used. But classes like pharmacology and biochemistry should not be seperated. Your going to need to know the effects of various drugs on patients that may have various medical conditions. Thus a dentist is simply specializing in oral health and pathology, while a radiologist is specializing in reading CAT scans, xrays, PET scans, and MRI's.

Human nature is human nature.


Aspiring dental students have the luxury of NOT taking the medical courses with the medical students if they do not want to. Simply do not attend one of the schools that has the program designed that way.

 

[gryffindor]

Humans by nature bond when placed in a similar challenging situtation, may it be athletics or academics. By placing medical and dental students in the same core curriculum for general didactics it tends to help the bonding. Of course rotations where you are sleep deprived and over worked tends to help bond groups of MD's closer togather. But the difference in education should be rotations and clinical and perhaps some upper level specilization courses. Do dentists really need to know all there is about toes? Odds are their time is better spent studying the oral cavity. So some modification to critical courses like gross anatomy should be used. But classes like pharmacology and biochemistry should not be seperated. Your going to need to know the effects of various drugs on patients that may have various medical conditions. Thus a dentist is simply specializing in oral health and pathology, while a radiologist is specializing in reading CAT scans, xrays, PET scans, and MRI's.

Human nature is human nature.


Aspiring dental students have the luxury of NOT taking the medical courses with the medical students if they do not want to. Simply do not attend one of the schools that has the program designed that way.

And for the second time this month on the pre-dent board, another "WTF?" post. My point was that there was no bonding going on when we took classes with the med students. They didn't even notice we were there. They were oblivious to the dental students, just like the dental students were oblivious to them. Biochemistry was one of the classes we didn't take with the med students and I really don't feel like I missed out on anything because I have almost never used anything I learned in biochemistry in my clinical practice. Nothing. Couldn't recite the Kreb's cycle or name all 20 amino acids if my life depended on it, although according to my transcripts I apparently earned As in all college and dental biochemistry courses I have ever taken. Maybe if I had taken biochem with the med students, I'd still remember all 20 of those amino acids. Yeah right. Keep fantasizing about how awesomely integrated into health care you are going to be because you took your first two years with the med students. 🙄

BTW, as a practicing dentist, I read x-rays all the time and don't have to refer them to anyone else. Some dentists also read MRIs and cone beam CTs regularly too, so it's not all just drill and fill.

 

[Northside]

Lots of responses... much appreciated. For the most part, ppl seem to agree that taking classes with med students is not necessary. However, I'd like to get more feedback regarding the pros of such a curriculum.

 

[Upenn08]

Lots of responses... much appreciated. For the most part, ppl seem to agree that taking classes with med students is not necessary. However, I'd like to get more feedback regarding the pros of such a curriculum.

Keep in mind that only four dental schools have the integrated curriculum, so the voices of the non-integrated school's students tend to be louder here.

There is a reason why Harvard, Columbia, Stony Brook, and UConn produces some of the best dentist in the country, and no, it is not just because smarter students got in there in the first place.

 

[gryffindor]

Lots of responses... much appreciated. For the most part, ppl seem to agree that taking classes with med students is not necessary. However, I'd like to get more feedback regarding the pros of such a curriculum.

Repeat from above:

The more medical minutia you can memorize, the better your odds at upping your Part I score.

 

[armorshell]

There is a reason why Harvard, Columbia, Stony Brook, and UConn produces some of the best dentist in the country, and no, it is not just because smarter students got in there in the first place.

Any evidence of that, or just more elitist rambling? I assume you're just referring to one of the articles from "Some of the best dentists in the country Quarterly?"

Not to mention, a soft statement like that you could apply to any school in the world. I'm sure some of the best dentists in the US come from Howard and Meharry as well. I'm sure at least a few of the best probably started out at Universidad de Guadalajara. How are you defining "the best?" Biggest income? Best technical skills? Highest Part 2 boards score? Best chairside manner? Best knowledge of glycolysis? Highest mean shear bonding strength? Fastest average class 2 composite?