Clinical Experience vs Shadowing

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Omni

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Hi everyone.
Here's my situation. I have more than 600 hours at a first aid squad. lots of patient contact from young patients to old, and a variety of different problems that I've dealt with. And that's all. I don't have any shadowing experience and I don't even know if EMT/FA can be considered clinical experience. How important is it to have shadowing done, and how much more important is it than clinical experience?
Would it be possible to gain both clinical experience and physician shadowing at the same time? I will be applying this June.

Thanks.

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Hi everyone.
Here's my situation. I have more than 600 hours at a first aid squad. lots of patient contact from young patients to old, and a variety of different problems that I've dealt with. And that's all. I don't have any shadowing experience and I don't even know if EMT/FA can be considered clinical experience. How important is it to have shadowing done, and how much more important is it than clinical experience?
Would it be possible to gain both clinical experience and physician shadowing at the same time? I will be applying this June.

Thanks.

Which leg is mose impostant, left or right? I belive they are as equally important.
 
The contact you've had with sick people is clinical patient experience. It counts. What you don't have is clinical environment experience, which one gains from working/or volunteering in a hospital, clinic, nursing home, or hospice.

Physician shadowing is important to most med schools also, though a few don't regard it. Some want no more than a few days worth and others like to see 60-80 hours. To have your application appeal to the greatest number of programs, aim for the higher end. You could maybe get this done over the rest of winter break and then during spring break, if you're not too busy. It need not be a regular activity.

Jobs that cross my mind as providing clinical patient/environment/ and embedded shadowing are ER scribe or tech, and doctor's office assistant. Most would volunteer in a clinical environment and shadow separately. Since you are already familiar with ERs, maybe a doc you've met would let you shadow, and then provide a contact to arrange something with a hospitalist and a primary care physician (as examples).

Developing an ease in communicating with patients is as important as feeling comfortable in a clinical setting with its HIPAA rules, OSHA, hand-washing obligations, and understanding of universal precautions and confidentiality. And those are as important as understanding exactly what a doctor does all day, dealing with patients, dictations, paperwork, rounds, counseling, staff, and being a part of a healthcare team.
 
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The contact you've had with sick people is clinical patient experience. It counts. What you don't have is clinical environment experience, which one gains from working/or volunteering in a hospital, clinic, nursing home, or hospice.

Physician shadowing is important to most med schools also, though a few don't regard it. Some want no more than a few days worth and others like to see 60-80 hours. To have your application appeal to the greatest number of programs, aim for the higher end. You could maybe get this done over the rest of winter break and then during spring break, if you're not too busy. It need not be a regular activity.

Jobs that cross my mind as providing clinical patient/environment/ and embedded shadowing are ER scribe or tech, and doctor's office assistant. Most would volunteer in a clinical environment and shadow separately. Since you are already familiar with ERs, maybe a doc you've met would let you shadow, and then provide a contact to arrange something with a hospitalist and a primary care physician (as examples).

Developing an ease in communicating with patients is as important as feeling comfortable in a clinical setting with its HIIPA rules, OSHA, hand-washing obligations, and understanding of universal precautions and confidentiality. And those are as important as understanding exactly what a doctor does all day, dealing with patients, dictations, paperwork, rounds, counseling, staff, and being a part of a healthcare team.
Thanks for your help! It was very insightful.
A few friends of mine have done scribing and I think I will just ask them to get in touch with a doctor who will be able to take me in. If I do scribing, then will that count as both shadowing and ER volunteering? As an EMT, I'm sure doctors can have me do some basic things for them that are within the scope of an EMT.
 
Catalystik - do you think this person really needs to shadow someone? You're a practicing physician and I'm a med student - so, your words hold a lot more water than mine do.
However, it's been my experience that the students in my class that were paramedics/army medics/EMTs blow the rest of us out of the water. I had 4.5 years of direct patient contact before applying to med school and I saw less than 1/15 of what they saw. In fact, one of them did a doppler demonstration (ABI), in a nursing home, because he knew more than the resident that was teaching us. (To be fair, the student had 13 or so years experience as a medic in the military and as a paramedic). However, he never did anything in a clinical setting.
I would think that a student with experience as an EMT would walk circles around an applicant who shadowed.
I admit that I could be missing something though, which is why I'm asking.
Thanks.
 
If I do scribing, then will that count as both shadowing and ER volunteering?
As long as your description of the activity makes it clear, then yes, it can count for both. If you are able to get this activity, I'd still suggest you try to spend a day each with two other types of docs just for some additional breadth of experience.
 
Catalystik - do you think this person really needs to shadow someone?

I would think that a student with experience as an EMT would walk circles around an applicant who shadowed.
Yes, I do think this applicant needs shadowing experience, not just to satisfy the expectations of most (not all) med schools, but for his own sake so he knows what he's getting into. If he were an ER tech who was an EMT, working next to ER doctors on a regular basis, it wouldn't be as essential, but I'd still recommend shadowing briefly a few other types of doctor besides, to avoid having a one-sided view of medicine.

The purpose of shadowing is not to give direct patient experience. There's no question that EMTs already shine at that compared to most traditional applicants. Rather, shadowing gives you a feel of what you'll do every day for thirty years. Will you be bored by seeing ten colds in a row, or ten skin lesions, or ten patients who really didn't need to see a doctor at all? Can you stand whiney, abusive, or manipulative patients, or criers, or screamers? Could you see yourself putting such patients at ease? Do you see the importance of teaching a patient the reason for a required treatment so he'll be compliant? Do you see the importance of trust between patient and doctor so recommendations are instituted? Do you understand the need for meticulous attention to good record keeping? Perhaps you will witness the frustration of dealing with insurance companies or HMO preauthorization requirements. You will also appreciate the rareness of a brilliant diagnostic coupe and the mundane quality of most provided medical care and see that the "fun" of medicine is in the patient relationships and the satisfying nature of doing a job right and knowing that you really do make a difference.
 
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I know there are scribes for the ER. What other fields require scribes?
Also, how long is the training, if any, for ER scribes?
 
I've seen rare mention of scribes in the private practice setting, but mainly it seems common in the ER. The only state I've heard requires special training is California. Other places train you on the job (paid or volunteer) to my knowledge.

Have you asked your friends about this?
 
No, but I will do tomorrow.
Thanks a lot for your help! It was insightful!
 
The purpose of shadowing is not to give direct patient experience. There's no question that EMTs already shine at that compared to most traditional applicants. Rather, shadowing gives you a feel of what you'll do every day for thirty years. Will you be bored by seeing ten colds in a row, or ten skin lesions, or ten patients who really didn't need to see a doctor at all? Can you stand whiney, abusive, or manipulative patients, or criers, or screamers? Could you see yourself putting such patients at ease? Do you see the importance of teaching a patient the reason for a required treatment so he'll be compliant? Do you see the importance of trust between patient and doctor so recommendations are instituted? Do you understand the need for meticulous attention to good record keeping? Perhaps you will witness the frustration of dealing with insurance companies or HMO preauthorization requirements. You will also appreciate the rareness of a brilliant diagnostic coupe and the mundane quality of most provided medical care and see that the "fun" of medicine is in the patient relationships and the satisfying nature of doing a job right and knowing that you really do make a difference.

I have only shadowed a nurse-midwife for one office day, which I am debating whether I should even include on my app (I spent most of this last year soul searching about whether I definitely wanted to go to medical school and I'm not more certain than ever that I do), but I have no doctor shadowing experience. However, I worked as a unit clerk on a very busy med-surg floor with a huge variety of generalists and specialists for two years and I truly believe my experiences on that floor gave me a feel of what my life will be like, in all the aspects listed above.

I'm also adding some more volunteering clinical experience to my ECs this year, hopefully on a different kind of floor (I'm hoping for the maternity ward, peds, or the ER). Do you guys think I need to get some more shadowing under my belt do you think the admissions folk will think this is sufficient? Truly, I can't imagine shadowing will do anything more to prepare me for the field beyond what my clinical experience did it would just be to look good on paper. Do you think it's necessary?
 
Geekchick, sometimes it's necessary to do activities that seem pointless so a checkbox will be ticked off. I'd suggest some shadowing for at least a few days, perhaps in an office setting, or somewhere you don't have experience so it will be interesting (hospitalist in ICU?, newborn nursery, surgeon?).

LizzyN thinks it's fine to mention shadowing of other healthcare professionals to show you tested other vocations as well.
 
non-shadowing clin. experience is just as important too, as someone above mentioned.
 
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