clinical psychology from an evolutionary framework

[daydreaming]

Hi all - I have finally become enthralled with a research area that I am intent on devoting my graduate school career to but I can only find psychiatrists investigating (I am applying to clinical PhD programs) it. I want to look at things such as low mood and anxiety disorders from an evolutionary perspective. For example, Keller and Nesse (2005) found that there is evidence for subtypes of depressive symptoms based on the preceding event (unattainable goal v. social loss) such that those who sustained a social loss engaged in high levels of crying (in an effort to keep this post as short as possible I won't go into detail about how these findings are explained from an evolutionary perspective) whereas fatigue for example was seen more in the unattainable goal and wintertime low mood group.

In a nutshell, I want to research evolutionary and context specific implications for mental disorders/maladaptive behavior (and to distinguish between when a behavior is adaptive and maladaptive) and diagnostics. However, I also want to develop practitioner skills which is why I am content on clinical programs.

After thoroughly examining the scientific credibility of evolutionary theory and understanding the amount of perspective that can be gained from looking through an evolutionary lens I have become excited to apply that lens to clinical psychology. If we have a phylogenetic history I don't see how it can be ignored and NOT investigated in clinical populations. I won't say anything else about my personal views on the matter in this thread (unless people want to have a talk). To conclude, I feel as though this hybrid or merging of evolutionary and clinical psychology is just at its inception and as such, it is somewhat frustrating to try and find someone to work with (or even talk to about the matter)!

Ok, hopefully that was enough of a descriptor for anyone who has any suggestions, thoughts, or is in the same boat as me and wants to help me row.

Here are my questions:

1) If I am having a lot of trouble finding a clinical psychologist who is doing research along the line of my aforementioned interests, should I a) be straightforward when I apply to labs (most likely in unipolar depression but perhaps anxiety) about my interests in clinical + evolutionary psychology? Or, b) apply to programs that have both evolutionary and clinical programs and try to get as much training in both fields as I can, or c) try to work with one of the psychiatrists investigating issues I am interested in even though I am applying to a clinical program (I have heard of this being done before but I know it is relatively rare and depends on the program)? Or, d) give up on trying to be a researcher because there is an abundance of psychologists with similar interests as me and I obviously lack the skillset necessary to complete grad school?

2) Does anyone know of any clinical psychologists looking at anything related to the interests I have disclosed above?

3) Any other tips, advice, thoughts?


Thank you all,

Daydreaming

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[PsyDr]

if you want to research full time, then you would best be served looking at a behavioral neuroscience program. Division 6 would be a great starting point. There are tons of individuals who study evolution and neuroscience.

i don't understand why you want clinical skills if you are researching this area. there is no empirical support for such an intervention/assessment, which would open you up to a whole heap of liability.

 

[KillerDiller]

i don't understand why you want clinical skills if you are researching this area. there is no empirical support for such an intervention/assessment, which would open you up to a whole heap of liability.

Clinical psychologists study a broad range of things. They don't all do treatment outcome research. I don't think the OP was proposing to incorporate evolutionary theory directly into therapy sessions.

To the OP: I would try for both options a and b. Of course, it is ideal if you can find someone researching evolutionary theory within a clinical context. Keep looking for this because I feel like there are a few researchers out there who do this. You can also look for programs that allow you to work with faculty who are not in the clinical program. University of Utah has this option, as do some smaller PhD programs that only offer a clinical specialty. I have never heard of psychiatrists researching this sort of thing, or heard of clinical psych students who have psychiatrists as mentors, but it seems like you know more about this than I do.

Anyway, I think that researchers who do work in anxiety and mood disorders may be very open to the idea of applying an evolutionary lens to their work. It sounds very interesting.

 

[daydreaming]

Clinical psychologists study a broad range of things. They don't all do treatment outcome research. I don't think the OP was proposing to incorporate evolutionary theory directly into therapy sessions.

You hit the nail on the head. I (obviously) don't have training in therapy yet but from the side reading I do, I understand the importance of empirically supported treatment.

To the OP: I would try for both options a and b. Of course, it is ideal if you can find someone researching evolutionary theory within a clinical context. Keep looking for this because I feel like there are a few researchers out there who do this. You can also look for programs that allow you to work with faculty who are not in the clinical program. University of Utah has this option, as do some smaller PhD programs that only offer a clinical specialty. I have never heard of psychiatrists researching this sort of thing, or heard of clinical psych students who have psychiatrists as mentors, but it seems like you know more about this than I do.

Thank you for the info. I will look into those smaller programs (though I feel like I would have to have two advisors: one to ensure that I am thinking about evolutionary theory in a scientifically correct way and one to guide me through the process of researching clinical populations)

Anyway, I think that researchers who do work in anxiety and mood disorders may be very open to the idea of applying an evolutionary lens to their work. It sounds very interesting

When do you break the news to the researchers you are interested in working with? Do you share early in your preliminary email asking the professors if they are taking a student? In your letter of recommendation, or in the interview? Or, do you break the news at some other time/venue?

 

[cara susanna]

I would just mention your research interests briefly in the email you send. I phrased it like "your research in such and such, which relates to my own interests in this and that"

 

[ADDICTED2STATS]

I was in th exact same boat that you are. I love EP, and wanted to go to grad school to study EP. However, I was advised that the future of psychology is going to be that ridiculous piece of paper that says your qualified to apply what you know. So here I am, in a clinical program. However, I chose a clinical program that had people outside the program doing EP research. I hooked up with one of these researchers when I got here and have been doing two separate streams of research. One in EP and one in clinical. In applying I never mentioned EP. It's been my experience that EP doesn't garner a lot of respect among clinical psychologists (however, social, personality, and cognitive psychologists tend to recognize it as an important theory in human behavior).

 

[glasscandie]

I'm very interested in evolutionary psychology (like my Darwin fish? lol), but I'm applying to behavioral neuroscience programs, as I'm not too interested in focusing my research on evolution.

Anyway, here's a list of schools that study EP:

http://www.hbes.com/places_to_study.htm

Have you read "Evolutionary Psychiatry" by Anthony Stevens and John Price? Pretty interesting.

 

[KillerDiller]

When do you break the news to the researchers you are interested in working with? Do you share early in your preliminary email asking the professors if they are taking a student? In your letter of recommendation, or in the interview? Or, do you break the news at some other time/venue?

I would mention it in your statement of purpose. That way you can really tailor each statement to be program specific and to address the extent to which each program has the capability of providing a mentor in evolutionary psych. Eg. "Although I know Prof. X's work hasn't, as of yet, looked at ____ through an evolutionary lens, I would be interested in investigating the connection" ...or whatever suits the occasion.

 

[nl2008]

I am interested in the same exact thing.... honestly I spent months searching and no one in clinical psychology is really doing that kind of work. It has limited treatment options. Look into neuroscience and biopsych programs if you're dead set on doing EP because from what I've learned, clinical is not the place for it.

 

[daydreaming]

I'm very interested in evolutionary psychology (like my Darwin fish? lol), but I'm applying to behavioral neuroscience programs, as I'm not too interested in focusing my research on evolution.

Anyway, here's a list of schools that study EP:

http://www.hbes.com/places_to_study.htm

Have you read "Evolutionary Psychiatry" by Anthony Stevens and John Price? Pretty interesting.

glasscandie: great tag (avatar? not sure what you call it)! I have seen you post before but never knew there were words inside that thing.

I have already gone through that hbes list of schools (great site by the way). I haven't read the book but I am definitely putting it in my favorites under "book wishlist." Right now I am trying to get through a lot of Randolph Nesse's work (some of his stuff on Darwinian Medicine is fascinating) but I will definitely add "Evolutionary Psychiatry" to my wishlist and get to it when I can.

Thanks for the info!

 

[daydreaming]

I am interested in the same exact thing.... honestly I spent months searching and no one in clinical psychology is really doing that kind of work. It has limited treatment options. Look into neuroscience and biopsych programs if you're dead set on doing EP because from what I've learned, clinical is not the place for it.

The thing is though, I really am intent on getting clinical training as well (therapy and assessment) because that fascinates me equally as much as examining behavior through an evolutionary lens. There has to be some way for us to pursue a merger of the two fields! Don't give up yet! At one point in time, health psychology didn't have its own programs and people interested in it had to scramble around and make due, so it is possible to pave the way. I will at least look into other programs though (as a sort of last resort).

 

[daydreaming]

I was in th exact same boat that you are. I love EP, and wanted to go to grad school to study EP. However, I was advised that the future of psychology is going to be that ridiculous piece of paper that says your qualified to apply what you know. So here I am, in a clinical program. However, I chose a clinical program that had people outside the program doing EP research. I hooked up with one of these researchers when I got here and have been doing two separate streams of research. One in EP and one in clinical. In applying I never mentioned EP. It's been my experience that EP doesn't garner a lot of respect among clinical psychologists (however, social, personality, and cognitive psychologists tend to recognize it as an important theory in human behavior).

I have heard the same thing about diversifying and not going solely for the title of "evolutionary psychologist" mainly because there isn't a lot of demand for EPs so it helps when searching for an academic position to call yourself an "evolutionary developmental psychologist" for example.

In your research (if you don't mind me asking) are you attempting to merge or combine the two (the clinical stream and the EP stream)? If so, are the profs you are working with aware that you want to merge ideas? If not, how come? Are you planning on combining both areas of research after grad school? Or, is your curiosity satisfied enough by researching in the two seperate areas which you are investigating?

 

[daydreaming]

I would mention it in your statement of purpose. That way you can really tailor each statement to be program specific and to address the extent to which each program has the capability of providing a mentor in evolutionary psych. Eg. "Although I know Prof. X's work hasn't, as of yet, looked at ____ through an evolutionary lens, I would be interested in investigating the connection" ...or whatever suits the occasion.

Part of me wants to break the news in my statement of purpose, but, if others have said, clinical psychologists aren't that thrilled with EP, I feel like it might be a gamble to do so! Ahhhh, decisions, decisions.

 

[Ollie123]

Keep in mind it might also be a gamble not to do so. You could then end up in a lab with someone who absolutely despises it and end up on bad terms from the start. Many faculty are great, and let grad students pursue what they want (within reason). Not all are, and if you end up with one, that research match becomes extra important. You can sometimes pick up on this at interviews, but not always.

 

[daydreaming]

Keep in mind it might also be a gamble not to do so. You could then end up in a lab with someone who absolutely despises it and end up on bad terms from the start. Many faculty are great, and let grad students pursue what they want (within reason). Not all are, and if you end up with one, that research match becomes extra important. You can sometimes pick up on this at interviews, but not always.

Good point, I hadn't thought of the situation like that. Disclosure is sounding like the way to go.

Thanks!

 

[ADDICTED2STATS]

In your research (if you don't mind me asking) are you attempting to merge or combine the two (the clinical stream and the EP stream)? If so, are the profs you are working with aware that you want to merge ideas? If not, how come? Are you planning on combining both areas of research after grad school? Or, is your curiosity satisfied enough by researching in the two seperate areas which you are investigating?

I don't know about merge, but it certainly gives me a different perspective. The profs I work with now could careless. One loves EP and one (my advisor) doesn't seem to have an interest in looking at things from an EP perspective (which I'm fine with). They're in different programs and there is little interaction across programs at my school. I do very basic behavioral research to address etiology, etc. So it would be easy to blend EP with whatever I'm doing. However, there are really two different streams of research and it will probably stay that way for the time being. So why don't I try to merge them...
I guess EP is more like a hobby (and not well accepted by funding agencies), so my other area is going to be what pays the bills. NIH wants sound scientific theory and as was said earlier EP (much like religion) is unfalsifiable. Regardless of how interesting it is there's always another potential explanation. So EP will never be the final word b/c it can never really be proven or disproven.