CMG Programs

[Splenda88]

It’s horrible for EM.

EM has a faster pace. It is more time critical. It has much higher stress and liability. Accordingly EM pay would need to be higher than FM or IM

I am glad you guys are doing well, and I think you guys earn every single penny you make.

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

According the Medscape, IM/EM burnout rate is virtually identical

Medscape: Medscape Access

But it doesn't show age at burnout. I'd bet EPs burn out much earlier than we do.

 

[Splenda88]

But it doesn't show age at burnout. I'd bet EPs burn out much earlier than we do.

I will be happy to see more stats...

 

[Rekt]

I am not sure why you think I am infatuated with EM. I am perfectly content being an IM doc.

You literally post constantly in multiple different subforums about how good EM is and how high paying it is and how all med students should be picking EM.

 

[cyanide12345678]

But it doesn't show age at burnout. I'd bet EPs burn out much earlier than we do.

I'm sure they would, the job is pretty stressful.

I'm already burned out and can't wait to retire

 

[Splenda88]

You literally post constantly in multiple different subforums about how good EM is and how high paying it is and how all med students should be picking EM.

Well, EM is good salary-wise... and I think if med students think they are not going to hate working in the ED, I think they should consider EM. I have nothing against EM docs and the ones I worked with were great IMO.

 

[deleted109597]

To all,
I've moved most of the offtopic and/or negative posts that were posted in the new residency threads.
I get it, and there's a reason to be concerned about the number of programs. So we will discuss it in here, and not mess up those threads.

 

[Rekt]

To all,
I've moved most of the offtopic and/or negative posts that were posted in the new residency threads.
I get it, and there's a reason to be concerned about the number of programs. So we will discuss it in here, and not mess up those threads.

What's the point? Any medical student looking into EM should be able to see the reaction to these new programs popping up. They're significantly less likely to bother with a thread like this one. My questions to that PD were legitimate. Did he get his jimmies rustled and ask you to move the responses?

 

[GonnaBeADoc2222]

What's the point? Any medical student looking into EM should be able to see the reaction to these new programs popping up. They're significantly less likely to bother with a thread like this one. My questions to that PD were legitimate. Did he get his jimmies rustled and ask you to move the responses?

To silence us.

 

[Rekt]

To silence us.

Might as well join them. I'll take some CMG kickbacks! Like 2k a month to defend their honor on SDN? Hell, I'll probably even be promoted to an SDN Moderator after that stopping anyone from getting their feelings hurt.

 

[deleted109597]

To silence us.

Hardly. It's because those programs don't deserve random discussions not relevant to their own program on their page.
You want to talk about something relevant? Feel free.
If I was going to silence you, I would simply delete what you're saying. I think it's a valid discussion, but it's like talking about gun control in the comments of an obituary.

 

[Rekt]

Hardly. It's because those programs don't deserve random discussions not relevant to their own program on their page.
You want to talk about something relevant? Feel free.
If I was going to silence you, I would simply delete what you're saying. I think it's a valid discussion, but it's like talking about gun control in the comments of an obituary.

I directly asked 100% relevant questions. That's a complete cop out.

 

[deleted941485]

Wow. And I thought proliferation in our program was bad. Im sure those corperate POS bean counters have nothing but resident education in mind. The docs willing to head up these programs should pay for it dearly. Name and Shame.

 

[deleted109597]

I directly asked 100% relevant questions. That's a complete cop out.

Not really.
Your question was relevant to global residency expansion. Not relevant in the informational post about that specific residency. So it was moved, not deleted.

 

[EctopicFetus]

If you want to know a reason to own an SDG this thread is it. Can have. Millions of residencies but it doesn’t change our comp.

Also vituity has some bs structured partnershiP. I do like that they are messing with D Bag and USACS. Solid move. If you work for USACS when you leave you Should go to the hospital CEO and tell them they are literally the worst CMG in the US. The docs wouldn’t leave and would be happier if they had their own group or at worst a different CMG.

 

[deleted109597]

Thomas Cook putting it in EM News.
Not that it will change much, but at least someone is talking about it other than us.

After the Match: Is There an EM Residency Glut? : Emergency Medicine News

An abstract is unavailable.

journals.lww.com

 

[deleted941485]

Thomas Cook putting it in EM News.
Not that it will change much, but at least someone is talking about it other than us.

After the Match: Is There an EM Residency Glut? : Emergency Medicine News

An abstract is unavailable.

journals.lww.com

At least he probably won’t get shouted down and told to shut up like in other fields.

Make sure god **** gets beamed out all over the place. Everybody in EM should have this opinion in the back of their minds.

 

[exacto]

Might be a stupid question, but how do I know if a residency program that I am applying to is CMG affiliated?

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

Just look up who owns the hospital pretty simple.

This is incorrect.

Many non-profit hospitals contract with CMGs to provide ED care. For example University of South Florida’s residency is run through Tampa General Hospital, which is non-profit. But their ED is staffed by team health, which also controls their residency. (This is one of the better, more respectable CMG residencies FYI, they provide great training and academic support AFAIK).

If it’s an HCA or other for profit HOSPITAL company, that makes it easy - just look at the hospital website. But Sometimes the only way to figure out who runs the ED is actually interviewing there and asking the residents.

 

[southerndoc]

This is incorrect.

Many non-profit hospitals contract with CMGs to provide ED care. For example University of South Florida’s residency is run through Tampa General Hospital, which is non-profit. But their ED is staffed by team health, which also controls their residency. (This is one of the better, more respectable CMG residencies FYI, they provide great training and academic support AFAIK).

If it’s an HCA or other for profit HOSPITAL company, that makes it easy - just look at the hospital website. But Sometimes the only way to figure out who runs the ED is actually interviewing there and asking the residents.

We are also a CMG (ApolloMD) that staffs Wellstar Kennestone Hospital. I certainly don't think our residents are ill-trained. Heck, the interns have done more CVL's and chest tubes than I did during my first two years of residency. Core faculty get protected time for lectures (including the night before) as well as protected time for residency related stuff. Not all CMG's are bad.

I think @12jas was referring to who owns the hospital -- a certain for-profit company that owns many hospitals and has many residencies has received the reputation that the residencies have issues.

 

[12jas]

This is incorrect.



If it’s an HCA or other for profit HOSPITAL company, that makes it easy - just look at the hospital website.

I offered one way to figure it out not the only way. lol you said that is incorrect then go on to offer the same advice.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

We are also a CMG (ApolloMD) that staffs Wellstar Kennestone Hospital. I certainly don't think our residents are ill-trained. Heck, the interns have done more CVL's and chest tubes than I did during my first two years of residency. Core faculty get protected time for lectures (including the night before) as well as protected time for residency related stuff. Not all CMG's are bad.

I think @12jas was referring to who owns the hospital -- a certain for-profit company that owns many hospitals and has many residencies has received the reputation that the residencies have issues.

Yea I loved Wellstar on the trail was particularly impressed by the acuity and hospital support. Same with USF (would’ve been my #1, but couples match) and UNLV. Not in any way trying to say that there’s not good CMG programs out there. Just need the right leadership and a stable contract.

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

I offered one way to figure it out not the only way. lol you said that is incorrect then go on to offer the same advice.

I’m sure we’re trying to say the same thing. Not trying to make a jab.

But to be clear, hospital ownership and who operates the ED are independent in many cases. You can not reliably look up who owns a hospital and use that to determine if their residency is affiliated with a CMG.

You can however look up if a hospital is owned by a for profit company like HCA.

Those two situations are distinct.

 

[KGflyboy]

I offered one way to figure it out not the only way. lol you said that is incorrect then go on to offer the same advice.

No. You cannot simply look at who owns the hospital to figure out if the ED is staffed by a CMG.

There are 5 hospitals within an hour of me. Looking at their names or reading the websites will not tell you which are staffed by a CMG. Not a single hospital here makes that info readily available to the public.

 

[12jas]

No. You cannot simply look at who owns the hospital to figure out if the ED is staffed by a CMG.

There are 5 hospitals within an hour of me. Looking at their names or reading the websites will not tell you which are staffed by a CMG. Not a single hospital here makes that info readily available to the public.

I did not say this was the only or definitive way. Looking up the hospital ownership works for SOME not ALL CMG programs. Someone already pointed out looking up the hospital ownership does not work for every program. But thanks though.

 

[Birdstrike]

What changed 5-10 years ago, that made HCA want multiple residencies in every hospital? I know it has to do with money, because money is the first and only thing HCA cares about. But what changed to make hosting residencies in their hospitals profitable? Was it Obamacare? Some change Medicare did? Something with staffing needs?

Because I know HCA wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable, and it used to be that it wasn't profitable, with a lot of teaching institutions actually losing money. Then suddenly several years ago, the most aggressively for-profit hospital corporation known to man suddenly wants in on "teaching." What changed?

 

[bravotwozero]

I think it had to do with scarcity of EPs. Given how the demand significantly outpaced supply in those years, I'm sure someone at HCA figured 'hey, here's how we can solve our labor problem!'

 

[GeneralVeers]

What changed 5-10 years ago, that made HCA want multiple residencies in every hospital? I know it has to do with money, because money is the first and only thing HCA cares about. But what changed to make hosting residencies in their hospitals profitable? Was it Obamacare? Some change Medicare did? Something with staffing needs?

Because I know HCA wouldn't do it if it wasn't profitable, and it used to be that it wasn't profitable, with a lot of teaching institutions actually losing money. Then suddenly several years ago, the most aggressively for-profit hospital corporation known to man suddenly wants in on "teaching." What changed?

It's not profitable if you have to pay for a bunch of academic physicians to do part time research and non-clinical work. At my site, they basically found out that they can use clinical staff to "teach" and meanwhile collect $20 million per year from CMS, while replacing $100/hour MLPs with residents. It's win-win-win for them.

 

[maxxor]

It's not profitable if you have to pay for a bunch of academic physicians to do part time research and non-clinical work. At my site, they basically found out that they can use clinical staff to "teach" and meanwhile collect $20 million per year from CMS, while replacing $100/hour MLPs with residents. It's win-win-win for them.

Aren’t these self funded programs? I thought they wouldn’t get the CMS funding unless they bought slots from another program (see the Hahnemann GME slot auction drama).

 

[KGflyboy]

I did not say this was the only or definitive way. Looking up the hospital ownership works for SOME not ALL CMG programs. Someone already pointed out looking up the hospital ownership does not work for every program. But thanks though.

I simply responded to your less than accurate post, and you downvoted my correct response and followed up with a defensive post concluding with "but thanks though" as if to be super sarcastic.

You may not have appreciated my post, but I want to get accurate info out there for people going through the match.

I don't know what phase of your career you are in, but if you are a residency applicant, I sincerely hope you don't come across as so defensive and resistant to people providing you factual info in real life.

I just imagine you sitting in interviews and giving people a literal thumbs down every time they give you feedback or correct you on the job lol.

 

[12jas]

I simply responded to your less than accurate post, and you downvoted my correct response and followed up with a defensive post concluding with "but thanks though" as if to be super sarcastic.

You may not have appreciated my post, but I want to get accurate info out there for people going through the match.

I don't know what phase of your career you are in, but if you are a residency applicant, I sincerely hope you don't come across as so defensive and resistant to people providing you factual info in real life.

I just imagine you sitting in interviews and giving people a literal thumbs down every time they give you feedback or correct you on the job lol.

I simply pointed out that the information was redundant and my less than accurate post had already been corrected.

"I just imagine you sitting in interviews and giving people a literal thumbs down every time they give you feedback or correct you on the job lol."

Wierd imagination but okay.