CNA or EMT?

[coconutts]

Hello everyone! I am currently a first-year undergrad student with desires to go to medical school. I was wondering if becoming a CNA or EMT will be valuable in terms of 1. Personal experience and 2. Application strength? Please let me know if either of these designations are worth pursuing.

Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[LM75]

You don't need either.

Between the two, CNA will give you more skills. EMT is just package and go. I've seen too many EMS personnel with terrible training.

Do the EMS route if you want to do EMS because we all need EMS services but don't do it for medical school purposes.

Back to my first statement, you're better off investing your time into more studying and some shadowing as opposed to taking on a job.

 

[CT153]

While medical school admissions committee members value experiences with patients, exposure to a healthcare setting and involvement in the community, little to no resources state that hands on experience is required or even preferred (See 2015 AAMC survey below for reference).

All of these things can be achieved without an EMT or CNA certification through activities like volunteering in a hospital, hospice, or outpatient setting and/or working as a medical scribe. Shadowing is also a great way to get clinical experience and is essentially required for admission. The scope of the clinical skills of a physician is obviously far greater than those of an EMT/CNA, therefore the skills you learn in these positions will not aid significantly in medical school.
That being said said, if you believe you would enjoy working as an EMT/CNA more than a job/ volunteer position without direct patient contact, it would be valuable to pursue certification. Personally, I decided to take an EMT training course because I knew I would enjoy, and therefore be able to speak more passionately, about a job I liked doing. You may be doing 1000s of hours in whatever clinical exposure position you pursue and you do not want that job to be unbearable.
I would also consider what opportunities are available near you. For example, if there are no part-time CNA/EMT positions available near your undergraduate institution (assuming you are not taking a gap year) I would not advise going that route.
While the clinical skills you would learn as a CNA/EMT may not give you an edge in school or the admissions process, the experience learning to speak and interact with a patient is important. Medical schools look for applicants have excellent social awareness, maturity, and will be able to perform the human side of medicine, not just the scientific aspect. I also found it extremely valuable to learn to how to best handle difficult situations with patients/ coworkers that you will inevitabley encounter in some form as a physician.
You are very early in your pre-medical career. Right now it is important to focus on performing well in your prerequisite classes, developing your leadership skills, and pursueing your passions (especially the non-medical ones, that is part of what makes you unique). While it is easy to take a gap year to get additional volunteer experience after graduation, it is very difficult (not to mention expensive) to repair your GPA with a post-bac/ medical masters program. Once you have a good hold on academics and time management I would look into increasing your time commitment to clinical exposure and volunteering.

I apologize for the essay, and I hope this helps!

 

[Blanky]

I will say it depends as well. I work in an ED and get to pick my schedule. I am in constant contact with Physicians from many specialties and have access to plenty of LORs from DOs and MDs. I get to see everything the scribes do and more plus I get to do procedures and am hands on with patients. I would say scribe is good because you get the contact experience, don't need any training and will be buddy buddy with the physicians to earn those LORs.
EMT is a couple of months of school plus the cost and then it can be competitive to get into an ER... Otherwise, you are on a crappy truck running dialysis appointments.

 

[lancecorpsman]

You can do so much more with an EMT cert. You can log many hours volunteering for fire/EMS and depending on where you are, you will be able to have primary patient care. I work in an ED as a tech and also volunteer as a firefighter/medic running ALS stuff. I get to do IVs, IOs, splints, lab draws, EKGs, and a lot more. You really do get to get involved and learn a lot. I love it because i get to connect with physicians from all specialties, not just the ED. Its also a really really good way to get LORs.

 

[lancecorpsman]

I also have my CNA as well. The only skill you will learn is to wipe butts. Little to no clinical work, like at all.

 

[Blanky]

You can do so much more with an EMT cert. You can log many hours volunteering for fire/EMS and depending on where you are, you will be able to have primary patient care. I work in an ED as a tech and also volunteer as a firefighter/medic running ALS stuff. I get to do IVs, IOs, splints, lab draws, EKGs, and a lot more. You really do get to get involved and learn a lot. I love it because i get to connect with physicians from all specialties, not just the ED. Its also a really really good way to get LORs.

+1

 

[mr. tree]

If you want to be a clinician I 100% support going the EMS route, working in EMS you get to make the calls no body tells you what to do, you have protocols to follow but ultimately everything comes down to your choices it is a great experience to give you a taste of what it is like to practice medicine.

if you plan on going the EMS route I would suggest getting your AEMT or EMT-I (whichever it is in your state) because you will actually be able to get a paying job and it is one of the better paying premed jobs, you can do a certain set of procedures (IV's, IO's, intubations) and can actually be a useful asset on a call, as an EMT basic you will always want more because you will always be handed the BS calls.

Biggest negative of EMS vs MA vs CNA is as an EMT you don't work along doctors so you will need a lot of shadowing experience or something showing you know what it like to be a doctor, also makes it harder to garner letters of rec.

 

[Blanky]

If you want to be a clinician I 100% support going the EMS route, working in EMS you get to make the calls no body tells you what to do, you have protocols to follow but ultimately everything comes down to your choices it is a great experience to give you a taste of what it is like to practice medicine.

if you plan on going the EMS route I would suggest getting your AEMT or EMT-I (whichever it is in your state) because you will actually be able to get a paying job and it is one of the better paying premed jobs, you can do a certain set of procedures (IV's, IO's, intubations) and can actually be a useful asset on a call, as an EMT basic you will always want more because you will always be handed the BS calls.

Biggest negative of EMS vs MA vs CNA is as an EMT you don't work along doctors so you will need a lot of shadowing experience or something showing you know what it like to be a doctor, also makes it harder to garner letters of rec.

For the 10th time an EMT can work EMS or get a job in a hospital working alongside physicians.

 

[mr. tree]

For the 10th time an EMT can work EMS or get a job in a hospital working alongside physicians.

Don't make assumptions bud because my hospital only hires paramedics and even so they are phasing them out. So maybe at your hospital that is the case but not all hospitals.

 

[EMS0821]

If you go the EMT route, be aware that the vast majority of places that will pay you are going to use you as a taxi driver for a paramedic taking people from nursing homes to hospitals and vice versa. I volunteer at a fire department and see tons of things and have gotten a ton of experience which has come up at every interview. Be aware that you'll see some real things that not everyone can handle; it'll push your comfort levels. NOT worth it if you're only interested in getting clinical experience for medical school. Its a pretty great position though if its your cup of tea.

 

[Blanky]

Don't make assumptions bud because my hospital only hires paramedics and even so they are phasing them out. So maybe at your hospital that is the case but not all hospitals.

I stated above that it’s area dependent and competitve to get in a hospital.
I can tell you have great respect for EMTs and paramedics but some people on sdn sell them off as “glorified taxi drivers”
Many hospitals in my area, I would say the majority only hire medics. I worked 911 in EMS and Fire for 8 years as an EMT I’m So. FL and now 3 years in an ED. I work with medics under the same title “Tech II” and do IVs, blood draws, EKGs, and splinting. They paid for my ACLS and PALS. I am fortunate that I pick my exact schedule and get $3k/ur in tuition reimbursement. I work alongside ER physicians and get exposed to internal, cards, gas, and CC from the ICU. I have more DO and MD LOR options than I can even use.
I know this is not the norm but it isn’t a unique situation. I just don’t agree with the posts about how scribe is ten fold better than EMT. (I am a fan of scribes)

I didn’t mean to offend you

 

[Blanky]

If you go the EMT route, be aware that the vast majority of places that will pay you are going to use you as a taxi driver for a paramedic taking people from nursing homes to hospitals and vice versa. I volunteer at a fire department and see tons of things and have gotten a ton of experience which has come up at every interview. Be aware that you'll see some real things that not everyone can handle; it'll push your comfort levels. NOT worth it if you're only interested in getting clinical experience for medical school. Its a pretty great position though if its your cup of tea.

Here we go again. I have been on the taxi driver shifts. I have also done critical care transports and learned how to work vents and tons more that I was exposed to.

 

[Blanky]

I would advise to get a ED Scribe position because you wont have to go through EMT courses.

 

[Medic741]

EMS all the way. Teaches you invaluable leadership/soft skills and you'll experience a side of life you never knew existed. Nothing like walking into a crack den...

 

[Fennel608]

Hello everyone! I am currently a first-year undergrad student with desires to go to medical school. I was wondering if becoming a CNA or EMT will be valuable in terms of 1. Personal experience and 2. Application strength? Please let me know if either of these designations are worth pursuing.

Thanks!

Everyone has made great points. I have done both, and these are my experiences:

CNA- this was one of the best experiences leading up to medical school acceptance. People really stigmatize it, but the reality is that these care workers are really important and can do so much more than peri care. If you work in the right location, you really build relationships, empathy, and clinical skills. I worked at an assisted living and feel as though working in that location made me more aware of the challenges certain populations face, oriented me to what many medications do, and made me really appreciate long term, incremental care. You have so much to learn from patients. Yes, it often really sucked. Most facilities are dangerously understaffed and you will have residents that make you feel like tearing your hair out every ten minutes. But for me, it was really worth it. I also think it built appreciation for the people who work “under” you. A quick psa is that you do not necessarily need cna certification, you can work as an ra as well if you are going to work residentially. If you want to work in a hospital, you will need a cna or advanced cna.

EMT- It felt really cool to go on calls and watch emergency care in action. However, this was not my favorite experience. You can learn quite a bit if you set yourself up to do so, and you can get great patient interaction, but to do that you have to make sure you have the right instructors, clinical times, and are in the right community and place of employment. The transport services are pretty ~lame~ even though they are still important. I also am an individual who prefers incremental primary care over emergency care. But that is completely up to the individual. EMT services are also often understaffed and the politics of emergency services really varies from municipality to municipality.

As for admissions- the people above know better than I do.

 

[kuzy]

As someone who is EMT certified and now working as an ER scribe, I would recommend becoming a CNA or PCT. Like others have said, it's area-dependent on whether or not you can work in the ER as an EMT (I can't where I live, unfortunately), whereas every hospital I know of has CNA/PCTs working in every department. And even if you do live in a lucky area it is highly competitive, and most ER tech positions will go to paramedics or PCTs.

If you're fine with working in EMS then that's a different story. However, at least where I live EMTs can't work for fire departments and do 911 calls if they are not also certified as firefighters so for that reason you would likely wind up working for a private company doing transports.

 

[Shunsui]

i cant speak for CNA but EMTs have awful hours aka long shifts and overnight some times. Can only work over the summer for the majority.

 

[EMS0821]

Again as many people are indicating, paid EMT shifts suck. If you choose to get your EMT for patient experience, the choices are essentially the following (obviously exceptions will exist):
option 1: work as an EMT for a private company who will pay you to run transfer calls. i.e. taking people from dialysis to nursing home, nursing home to hospital, hospital to assisted living, etc.
option 2: work as an EMT at a hospital as an ER tech. These jobs are scarce so check your local job market first before considering this your main plan as you may be stuck with option 1 or 3.
option 3: volunteer as an EMT for a fire department who will likely make you become a firefighter as well. This option will provide you with patient experiences which aren't all under the notion of them being just non-ambulatory. You'll see and do a lot which will provide the potential for vast personal growth; but it is time intensive, a huge commitment, and obviously not for everyone. I took option 2, I love it. I love it enough that I live at the fire station as a full-time volunteer.

Becoming an EMT isn't really a great deal if you're looking to do it as a job.

 

[RNthenDoc]

I’ll be a voice of dissent: CNA.

Both have pros and cons, but if you can get a job as an ICU CNA or ER CNA you will see more/do more.

I’m obviously biased, but my career has included training both CNAs and EMTs (mostly medics, though, we very rarely use EMTs in the hospital outside of ED).

 

[RNtoMD87]

From what I've seen I cant recommend CNA except for two areas: ER and ICU. In the ER you will get to use skills (more than in most other areas. Seen them start foleys and IVs), and in the ICU you don't get to do much but you get to SEE a lot.


EMT I'm not as knowledgeable about, but you get to deal with real world crises. I don't understand how adcoms on here look down on EMTs as "glorified taxi drivers". Although EMTs aren't highly trained medically, you have to think on your feet and resolve conflicts. As a prior first responder (Military Police) I have a lot of respect for EMTs.

 

[plaidminouserfinthri]

Have you considered becoming a Medical Assistant? More than EMT and CNA, I think MA aligns most with pre-med goals. Most hospitals will require you become a Certified Medical Assistant, but a lot of private practices will hire people unlicensed, or hire you while you work towards a license. I've seen this most in bougie specialties like dermatology clinics, where they can afford extra assistants. Becoming a medical assistant usually means you'll work more closely with physicians, and you can find a job that is very similar to shadowing, but where you're allowed to pretty much do as much as the physician tells you to.

I spent a couple of years as a volunteer EMT on a 911 system and for event coverage while I was in college and during a few gap years. It was valuable, but not in a way that really contributed to getting into med school in a timely manner. It was more of something that I had a genuine interest in, so I stuck with it for a while. The problem with going the EMS route for med school is that its either vapid, or a ungodly time sink.

Vapid, in that you can bull**** the experience by just getting your certification and never using it, or getting into a role that doesn't actually do anything besides drive or stand around and pretty much never develop your proficiency as a provider. Also, know that EMT classes can be complete jokes tailored to the lowest common denominator. The standards are so low because if they weren't, there would be some places with EMTs at all, but your experience will depend on your locality.

Alternatively, if you do spend enough time in EMS to actually contribute something, you've likely wasted a whole lot of time you may have needed for the pre-med fundamentals like getting good grades and research if you're aiming for top research institutions. Obviously if you're talented, you can have it all, but not many people are.

 

[Blanky]

Im going to say scribe again.
Its suprising to see the variation by area. In my entire county there are no CNAs working ER. They do work on the floors but nit much in ICU. I think OP should learn about his/ her area. I would vote against EMT for transports (Self experience) and obviously we know CNA is decent. EMT for a volunteer fire department would require a lot more training as a firefighter but that would all count as volunteer hours that are clinical. (Self experience)

Scribe is less training and paid, and you get the exeprience hours and contact with physicians.

 

[AKEMT]

I got my EMT cert (12 credits) at a community College while also taking 9 credits toward my undergrad at my regular university. It's a lot of work so make sure you can fit it into your schedule. I will be working full time as an EMT doing 911 calls soon while also working on my undergrad (we'll see how that goes), also a lot of work. The value of your experience has a lot to do with how you can talk about it in essays and interviews.

Obviously I'm biased, but I would recommend getting your EMT. I haven't started working yet, but just from the clinical shifts I did in EMT school, I know it will be valuable experience and a fulfilling job and it will prepare me, personally, for the rigors of med school and residency (because of all the work). Just be warned, that if you want to get a job, they can tend to be very competitive. In my area at least, most ED's want you to have extra certs to even be considered for an interview, and most fire departments don't hire on people who are only EMT, so you'd likely end up working your first EMT job at a private ambulance company where you're subject to union rules about seniority, meaning you likely won't get to pick your (ideal) schedule until a year or two on the job. The private company's also tend to be the ones who do the "taxi cab" work that some people talk about. Just know that as long as that sort of work doesn't make you hate your life, it is still good experience that, by adding a dash of creative writing, can be turned into something that med schools will love seeing in your essays and hearing about in interviews.

Getting your EMT also opens up more unique volunteer opportunities. i.e. Near where I live, there is summer camp for children with life threatening illness who have a volunteer staff of doctors, nurses, medics, and EMTs who make sure all the kids stay healthy during their time at camp.

I got very lucky getting the EMT job I got and it's far from typical. I got rejected from probably a dozen hospitals, and turned down a job with a private ambulance company because of the scheduling issues, and I didn't like the company very much (seemed to have unprofessional staff). If you think you'll enjoy it and be able to talk about it as valuable experience regardless of where you end up working/volunteering, then I'd say go for it.

Sent from my SM-G930T using SDN mobile

 

[NordicFroggy]

I've been a CNA in hospice for almost 2 years now and I was just recently accepted to med school. I attribute much of the attraction to my application to my CNA experience. EMT's certainly get to do more hands on "clinical" work, but in my opinion developing the ability to talk to a patient and having empathy is one thing that should be practiced well before medical school begins. I think that being a CNA gives you more opportunity to do this and develop long term relationships with patients you see over and over again. It will also point blank let you know if being in healthcare is even for you. Being the lowest on the totem pole also gives you a sense of humility that I believe can often be lost if you've never been there before. You develop a sincere sense of appreciation for nursing staff and prospective for what they do. I think this will help immensely in having a wonderful working relationship with nurses in the future.

If you are dead set on emergency medicine, maybe EMT will be more practical for you. But I really do believe my interviewers were impressed with my experiences caring for the dying not in a clinical sense but in a "human" sense.

 

[frosted2]

If you go the EMT route, be aware that the vast majority of places that will pay you are going to use you as a taxi driver for a paramedic taking people from nursing homes to hospitals and vice versa. I volunteer at a fire department and see tons of things and have gotten a ton of experience which has come up at every interview. Be aware that you'll see some real things that not everyone can handle; it'll push your comfort levels. NOT worth it if you're only interested in getting clinical experience for medical school. Its a pretty great position though if its your cup of tea.

My EMT is my equal, aside from the skillset/what we are authorized to do. A good EMT is worth their weight in gold. Not just my "driver."

 

[Blanky]

I've been a CNA in hospice for almost 2 years now and I was just recently accepted to med school. I attribute much of the attraction to my application to my CNA experience. EMT's certainly get to do more hands on "clinical" work, but in my opinion developing the ability to talk to a patient and having empathy is one thing that should be practiced well before medical school begins. I think that being a CNA gives you more opportunity to do this and develop long term relationships with patients you see over and over again. It will also point blank let you know if being in healthcare is even for you. Being the lowest on the totem pole also gives you a sense of humility that I believe can often be lost if you've never been there before. You develop a sincere sense of appreciation for nursing staff and prospective for what they do. I think this will help immensely in having a wonderful working relationship with nurses in the future.

If you are dead set on emergency medicine, maybe EMT will be more practical for you. But I really do believe my interviewers were impressed with my experiences caring for the dying not in a clinical sense but in a "human" sense.

An awesome example of how great your choice was but you are biased in thinking it detracts from emotional experiences an EMT can make working in a hospital and/ or with patients.
Your experiences reinforce how aweomse CNA is but you make subjective assumptions against being an EMT.
I can say the same for my patient experiences and helping others in some of the worst situations they have experienced. I had countless stories to tell and it has shown in my ability to interview.
Let’s just say they are both great experiences and greatly add value to an application.

 

[PeleHonuaMea]

Hello everyone! I am currently a first-year undergrad student with desires to go to medical school. I was wondering if becoming a CNA or EMT will be valuable in terms of 1. Personal experience and 2. Application strength? Please let me know if either of these designations are worth pursuing.

Thanks!

It really depends on where you live, where you want to work, and how the local institutions you want to work for utilize CNAs and EMTs. You might want to call around and ask.

Most hospitals I've worked only employ CNAs and CNA-IIs in their high acuity units.

How about other options for pt exposure? Like volunteering for a hospice agency or pt care clinic? How about a medical transporter? Or teach CPR to the community? (some hospitals will pay you to do that for their pts). Maybe be a unit secretary? (I know several MDs who were secretaries before med school). Are you a pet person? most hospitals/nursing facilities have pet handlers coming in with their pets for pet therapy. Are you musically inclined? The holidays are here, most hospitals and nursing homes are now filled with students providing music therapy for the patients while on winter break. Do you sew? Most NICUs would love your quilts and caps for their babies, and the CVICU would love some heart pillows for the post CABG pts.

There are many things you can do, try not to limit yourself .

 

[Tenk]

Scribe >>>>>> either of those.

 

[Blanky]

Scribe >>>>>> either of those.

Only because you don’t need education/ more time efficient.
I’m still voting for scribing as the best option. But you can not argue what I do versus a scribe.

 

[Tenk]

Only because you don’t need education/ more time efficient.
I’m still voting for scribing as the best option. But you can not argue what I do versus a scribe.

You’re joking right? Scribes have far more education than an EMT. They don’t just go in cold turkey and start charting. They also learn ridiculous amounts of medical knowledge as they go that far outpaces EMT or even paramedics. Hell I was teaching my scribes how to read freaking CTs the other day. I could also tell who had been a previous scribe as an MS3 because their differentials and work ups were spot on. Their desire to learn is their only limit into how much the job gives. It’s not even close.

 

[Blanky]

You’re joking right? Scribes have far more education than an EMT. They don’t just go in cold turkey and start charting. They also learn ridiculous amounts of medical knowledge as they go that far outpaces EMT or even paramedics. Hell I was teaching my scribes how to read freaking CTs the other day. I could also tell who had been a previous scribe as an MS3 because their differentials and work ups were spot on. Their desire to learn is their only limit into how much the job gives. It’s not even close.

Scribe is on the job training. I am arguing that it’s best to become a scribe if you are premed. Let’s not pretend like the scribe can read CTs he was engaging with you for a LOR. I feel like this argument is going way off into tangents. Maybe it’s different in your area but scribing is self taught medical term... Scribes learn terms like CHF DM etc but don’t understand any of it medically.
You don’t think there is a reason I make $18/hr and scribes make like $8.50 or whatever?

Scribe pay is low because they are easily replaced. On the job training and a couple medical term and typing tests and bam, done.

Are you saying I would learn anything, literally anything by entering scribe training? Answer is no. Now I’m sure if I was your scribe you could teach me to the moon and back. I just spent half an hour chilling with one of ER docs researching sed rate and how the charges work etc etc and he was all into it.

Again I’m pushing for the scribe as the “best” premed clinical exposure for shorter training times and direct physician contact.

 

[Tenk]

Scribe is on the job training. I am arguing that it’s best to become a scribe if you are premed. Let’s not pretend like the scribe can read CTs he was engaging with you for a LOR. I feel like this argument is going way off into tangents. Maybe it’s different in your area but scribing is self taught medical term... Scribes learn terms like CHF DM etc but don’t understand any of it medically.
You don’t think there is a reason I make $18/hr and scribes make like $8.50 or whatever?

Scribe pay is low because they are easily replaced. On the job training and a couple medical term and typing tests and bam, done.

Are you saying I would learn anything, literally anything by entering scribe training? Answer is no. Now I’m sure if I was your scribe you could teach me to the moon and back. I just spent half an hour chilling with one of ER docs researching sed rate and how the charges work etc etc and he was all into it.

Again I’m pushing for the scribe as the “best” premed clinical exposure for shorter training times and direct physician contact.

Almost all scribe programs have courses the students have to take and tests they have to pass before they start scribing, so no, it’s not all on the job. It’s more like someone teaching you the basic swim strokes and then once you show you can do each of them you go and train with Michael Phelps.

I get what you are saying though, no worries. I would say the only advantage EMT has are pay and more patient exposure like you said which can help your social skills and patient interactions.