MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

Started by kraskadva
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underthesun said:
Cleveland get a bad reputation bc it’s one of the ****tiest cities in America. Dirty, violent, always cloudy, tons of snow, need I go on? LOL you’re praising it and then comparing it to Baltimore....that’s a red flag if I ever saw one.
Interviewed rads at CCF and wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole bc it’s all fellow driven. Not even ranking it.

Not ranking IU very high either but it def has a better rep than case and overall better training than CCF for rads. Your assessment of these places is.....poor
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Literally every city is dirty violent and many of the biggest ones have tons of snow. NYC comes to mind as the dirtiest right up there with LA. Cleveland is pretty good in parts. They have the old reputation that its terrible in the same way Detroit does. Both have come a long way in the recent past and there are some legit cool spots in both. As someone with direct experience in both Cleveland has more to do and has some really nice suburbs and some cool city spots, Indy is cheaper with less to do
 
NotAnotherPreMed said:
Please like this if you're not even close to being doing with your rank list (I've only finalized my #1 which I had to, to send an LOI to) and I'm slowly starting to freak out lol
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I haven't sent a LOI....and to be honest, I'm not sure I will at this point. I know several programs have already finalized their rank lists. I also know the evidence is meager, at best, that LOIs have any effect on your chances of matching
 
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underthesun said:
Cleveland get a bad reputation bc it’s one of the ****tiest cities in America. Dirty, violent, always cloudy, tons of snow, need I go on? LOL you’re praising it and then comparing it to Baltimore....that’s a red flag if I ever saw one.
Interviewed rads at CCF and wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole bc it’s all fellow driven. Not even ranking it.

Not ranking IU very high either but it def has a better rep than case and overall better training than CCF for rads. Your assessment of these places is.....poor
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Really, dude? Your response is totally off-base. I'm not from Cleveland or Indianapolis, so I'm not taking your reply personally. The OP asked Cleveland vs. Indy, not what's the best place in America to live in...

I felt like I gave an honest assessment of the two places based on what I know about them.
 
SurgDoc95 said:
Would just like to state again how useless these dead weeks are. This is time we could be using to find homes or idk not stress eating for an extra month plus 🥴
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I've been thinking a lot about this with all this extra time on my hands. It's kind of ridiculous. I feel like most people, myself included, seem to chunk our rank lists (top two or so, middle third, bottom few/third/"wish I could not rank this program') so I think you get to a point where you're splitting hairs on your rank list.

Shorten interview season and have match day soon after we submit our list, lets get this train moving! I want to sign a lease and plan a move. Not have to wait another month and a half until I can even really start that process
 
Prehealth1011 said:
Is late March too late to find apartments for July? I see regular people online looking for apartments for summer 2021 right now
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Nah unless youre moving to an area thats just a college town, because they push hard to sign like 10 months early in my experience. Worst case youll find something but youll just end up paying more than your neighbors that signed earlier
 
LatteColoredDO said:
Hi friends,

I have 3 IM interviews that I received this week. Creighton University - Phoenix (AZ), Abrazo Health (AZ), and Coney Island Hospital (NY).

Step 1 was 209 and Step 2 CK was 232. Comlex Level 1 was 515 and Comlex Level 2 was 578.

They are coming fam. Have faith. Hope this helps alleviate some stress.
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Hi, I also had an iv at Creighton, do you know if they have 24 hrs-oncalls? Also, what’s their ambulatory service like? Is it half at St.jose and half at Valleywise?
 
SurgDoc95 said:
What do y’all know about physician loans and ability to buy a house before residency? Really not interested in apartment living anymore, but without an income I’d imagine buying a house would be a bit difficult.
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Physician loans and first time homebuyers discounts are definitely a thing. I’m gonna buy one for sure. Maybe inquire at a financial office?
 
SurgDoc95 said:
What do y’all know about physician loans and ability to buy a house before residency? Really not interested in apartment living anymore, but without an income I’d imagine buying a house would be a bit difficult.
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I have a meeting with a financial planner soon for this exact reason! I know nothing about this process and definitely will be buying a house.
 
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cjcarter said:
I have a meeting with a financial planner soon for this exact reason! I know nothing about this process and definitely will be buying a house.
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I have mortgage brokers in the family so that helps. We literally have it loaded up to shotgun as soon as we find out where we are. Preapproval and all. Highly recommend. Unless youre in FM or IM with no fellowship plans it should be easy to sell the house. My plan is to market it as a decent priced rental for incoming residents. Endless stream of good tenants
 
SurgDoc95 said:
What do y’all know about physician loans and ability to buy a house before residency? Really not interested in apartment living anymore, but without an income I’d imagine buying a house would be a bit difficult.
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I'm going house hunting like the week after the match lol. But I have a house I'm selling and rolling into a new one wherever I go.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
I'm going house hunting like the week after the match lol. But I have a house I'm selling and rolling into a new one wherever I go.
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I set up virtual rotations/vacation from after next week until residency. Gonna be living the damn dream. Although working 12 days straight of 10-12 hr shifts and call is gonna take it out of me first
 
Chibucks15 said:
I have mortgage brokers in the family so that helps. We literally have it loaded up to shotgun as soon as we find out where we are. Preapproval and all. Highly recommend. Unless youre in FM or IM with no fellowship plans it should be easy to sell the house. My plan is to market it as a decent priced rental for incoming residents. Endless stream of good tenants
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What has this wise wizard told you? What all is required to buy a house as a single dude with no income and 5-10k for a down payment?
 
ciestar said:
Huge dealbreaker. That is so much call
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So I did the math and in the end it comes to 10months of q4 call over 2 years (there's call-free electives/vacation, etc interspersed with some nights/days, etc.). Still seems like more than other programs, though I am confirming this with my other top choices. I was surprised how much I loved this program, and they kind of waved off the scheduling concerns saying they are experimenting with other formats but about half of residents like days/nights and half prefer the current q4 system...😏

Compare this to my #1 where intern year they do days/nights and only have weekend call. This amounts to maybe 10 call days total. I am checking how much call after that first year, but I don't think it will come close to the other program.
 
Naruhodo said:
So I did the math and in the end it comes to 10months of q4 call over 2 years (there's call-free electives/vacation, etc interspersed with some nights/days, etc.). Still seems like more than other programs, though I am confirming this with my other top choices. I was surprised how much I loved this program, and they kind of waved off the scheduling concerns saying they are experimenting with other formats but about half of residents like days/nights and half prefer the current q4 system...😏

Compare this to my #1 where intern year they do days/nights and only have weekend call. This amounts to maybe 10 call days total. I am checking how much call after that first year, but I don't think it will come close to the other program.
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Drop that bad boy down
 
Chibucks15 said:
I have mortgage brokers in the family so that helps. We literally have it loaded up to shotgun as soon as we find out where we are. Preapproval and all. Highly recommend. Unless youre in FM or IM with no fellowship plans it should be easy to sell the house. My plan is to market it as a decent priced Unfortunaterental for incoming residents. Endless stream of good tenants
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Have gotten pre-approved by two lenders as well. Already stalking the market in my top choice so I can make a move asap. Unfortunately, market is poppin' right now. I have had two awesome homes in my #1 city go off the market within <48 hours. Hope there's other ones like it in the near future hitting the market in about 4 weeks
 
Frogger27 said:
Have gotten pre-approved by two lenders as well. Already stalking the market in my top choice so I can make a move asap. Unfortunately, market is poppin' right now. I have had two awesome homes in my #1 city go off the market within <48 hours. Hope there's other ones like it in the near future hitting the market in about 4 weeks
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Wow I would have thought the opposite
 
SurgDoc95 said:
What do y’all know about physician loans and ability to buy a house before residency? Really not interested in apartment living anymore, but without an income I’d imagine buying a house would be a bit difficult.
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Depending what you are going into and your current funds you may want to rethink buying. Usually doesn’t make financial sense even though we all would like to feel like we aren’t “wasting” rent payments. See below.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

Buying a House During Residency | White Coat Investor

New residents have a big desire to buy a house. But it's a gamble of your time and money at a period of life when you have little of either.
www.whitecoatinvestor.com www.whitecoatinvestor.com
 
Naruhodo said:
So I did the math and in the end it comes to 10months of q4 call over 2 years (there's call-free electives/vacation, etc interspersed with some nights/days, etc.). Still seems like more than other programs, though I am confirming this with my other top choices. I was surprised how much I loved this program, and they kind of waved off the scheduling concerns saying they are experimenting with other formats but about half of residents like days/nights and half prefer the current q4 system...😏

Compare this to my #1 where intern year they do days/nights and only have weekend call. This amounts to maybe 10 call days total. I am checking how much call after that first year, but I don't think it will come close to the other program.
Click to expand...
As an intern.. i have like, 20-24 call days total. Some night shifts on OB and EM, but that’s it. You also get an entire post-call day, but weekly call really isnt terrible.
 
Agent Michael Scarn said:
Depending what you are going into and your current funds you may want to rethink buying. Usually doesn’t make financial sense even though we all would like to feel like we aren’t “wasting” rent payments. See below.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

Buying a House During Residency | White Coat Investor

New residents have a big desire to buy a house. But it's a gamble of your time and money at a period of life when you have little of either.
www.whitecoatinvestor.com www.whitecoatinvestor.com
Click to expand...
Mortgage payments almost always end up being significantly lower than rent payments for the same space. This is the one crusade of WCI that I can't get behind.

Home buying is usually a really smart investment and is generally considered the only "good debt" you can accrue outside of educational loans.
 
Espressso said:
I've been thinking a lot about this with all this extra time on my hands. It's kind of ridiculous. I feel like most people, myself included, seem to chunk our rank lists (top two or so, middle third, bottom few/third/"wish I could not rank this program') so I think you get to a point where you're splitting hairs on your rank list.

Shorten interview season and have match day soon after we submit our list, lets get this train moving! I want to sign a lease and plan a move. Not have to wait another month and a half until I can even really start that process
Click to expand...

Yeah I thought your response was great and super helpful, I really appreciate it.
 
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underthesun said:
Cleveland get a bad reputation bc it’s one of the ****tiest cities in America. Dirty, violent, always cloudy, tons of snow, need I go on? LOL you’re praising it and then comparing it to Baltimore....that’s a red flag if I ever saw one.
Interviewed rads at CCF and wouldn’t touch it with a ten foot pole bc it’s all fellow driven. Not even ranking it.

Not ranking IU very high either but it def has a better rep than case and overall better training than CCF for rads. Your assessment of these places is.....poor
Click to expand...

Can you PM me?
 
Jack Donaghy said:
Mortgage payments almost always end up being significantly lower than rent payments for the same space. This is the one crusade of WCI that I can't get behind.

Home buying is usually a really smart investment and is generally considered the only "good debt" you can accrue outside of educational loans.
Click to expand...
Eh, I think that’s a shortsighted take. I’d definitely recommend the rent vs buy calculators to see if it’s the right call. When you factor in closing costs/fees (10-15% of your home’s value) and maintenance (1-4%/year) the difference in mortgage and rent can disappear or even flip quickly depending on how long you’re in the house and if you have a significant down payment. WCI is one of many resources that advises against most people buying in residency. I’m not against buying, but I definitely would be very cautious that it’s the right long term move. I’d hate to be forced to pass up on jobs in a different area post residency because I’m financially stuck in a home I can’t break even on.
 
Idk how you guys have been able to sign leases so early. I've had to move a LOT in my adult life and have always been unable to sign until about 2-3 months out. You can tour places earlier and occasionally they'll know further in advance, but in my experience most places only require 60-days-or-so notice from renters about renewing their lease, so they don't have a solid idea of what they'll have available around your move in date until about that time.
 
CavsFan2016 said:
I appreciate everyone’s responses to this question, they are all super helpful. Thank you so much.

But let’s be real - if there was ever a correct answer to this question, it’s this one
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My #1 slot is my wife’s top pick. Darkroom looks the same at most places so I’m legit just trying to prioritize my family’s happiness.
 
Jack Donaghy said:
Mortgage payments almost always end up being significantly lower than rent payments for the same space. This is the one crusade of WCI that I can't get behind.

Home buying is usually a really smart investment and is generally considered the only "good debt" you can accrue outside of educational loans.
Click to expand...

I disagree strongly. I think there are only a few specific scenarios in which buying a house out of medical school makes sense. If you have a family and if you plan on staying for years sure. Or banking on keeping it as a rental stream (this is something that I'm really interested in) But even that is a headache. You're basically gambling with the market if you plan on selling within the next 5 years. I think everyone feels all cute and fuzzy saying it's a smart investment but I just don't know about that.

Also a big turn off for me is the maintenance. I can't imagine having to get a whole new roof during an icu month lol. Miserable. Not to mention the sheer cost of a new roof, or a new hvac. I've spoke to a few financial advisors who specialize in residents/docs/med students and they echo the same idea.

Nonetheless, it's definitely an individual decision. I think for me I appreciate and value the flexibility renting provides. I also highly value the safety net of having maintenance issues taken care of without a penny out of my pocket. If I was a resident in TX and owned a house and the pipes broke while I'm at the hospital and my wife and kids are home; man... what a nightmare.

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literally after writing this comment I went on reddit and this was the first post I saw lol. But as someone above me mentioned, WCI people tend to favor heavily towards the rent>buy camp
 
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One must consider the length of training and if they will likely do fellowship in the same area. One must also consider kids and whatever unique circumstances they have.

Medicine is full of FIRE cultists at this point so you have to consider your own life. There is a saying that it's easy to spend someone else's money. It's also easy to be a miser with someone else's money on the internet and it's incredibly trendy now to boot. The new constant message is that if you don't min/max your finances then you are financially irresponsible so shame on you!! It's funny how we got to this point though. WCI for example did not have a philosophy that these people are pedalling on his pages. He actually says that he wants you to have the tools to make decisions you think are best for your family. Economics in highschool teaches you that some immaterial things can have a value to an individual but it's up to an individual to put a dollar amount on it. I don't think most people should buy a house but I do think that for those that do, losing 20k or whatever when it's all said and done COULD be what they value having a home over renting at. In that case it would make sense.

In general, I don't take a lot of advice from FIRE types as I don't agree with them philosophically just like I don't take all advice from the types of people who will die with $10 million in the bank because they worked really hard for too many years being a miser from the other end of the spectrum.
 
Espressso said:
I disagree strongly. I think there are only a few specific scenarios in which buying a house out of medical school makes sense. If you have a family and if you plan on staying for years sure. Or banking on keeping it as a rental stream (this is something that I'm really interested in) But even that is a headache. You're basically gambling with the market if you plan on selling within the next 5 years. I think everyone feels all cute and fuzzy saying it's a smart investment but I just don't know about that.

Also a big turn off for me is the maintenance. I can't imagine having to get a whole new roof during an icu month lol. Miserable. Not to mention the sheer cost of a new roof, or a new hvac. I've spoke to a few financial advisors who specialize in residents/docs/med students and they echo the same idea.

Nonetheless, it's definitely an individual decision. I think for me I appreciate and value the flexibility renting provides. I also highly value the safety net of having maintenance issues taken care of without a penny out of my pocket. If I was a resident in TX and owned a house and the pipes broke while I'm at the hospital and my wife and kids are home; man... what a nightmare.

EDIT to add:
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literally after writing this comment I went on reddit and this was the first post I saw lol. But as someone above me mentioned, WCI people tend to favor heavily towards the rent>buy camp
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Wife and I are hoping to be somewhere we can get a house, but we have a pretty abnormal situation for residency. We've got a kid, she has a good job (with my resident salary we'll be making ~150k), we have enough saved for a 20% down payment, interest rates are historically low right now, and my residency is 6-7 years. I think if any of those factors was different though we wouldn't even be thinking about getting a home.
 
Yeah, I guess I should have been more clear. If you are looking to get a 3+ bedroom home, presumably due to a family, then you will be paying WAY more in rent than in mortgage. I know because I (stupidly) did it. If you are a single person looking for a one-bedroom apartment for 3 years before you move back to your home city, then yes obviously renting makes way more sense. I guess I draw the line at single family homes. Apartments, condos or townhomes are probably better to rent. Single family homes are probably better to buy.

As far as the maintenance cost argument goes, pretty simple solution there would be to not buy a 50-year old house. If you can't get a good house that is 10-15 years old, then you should probably rent until said situation becomes available. But my stance comes similar to what neopolymath said in that this FIRE life of never take on debt, only spend peanuts on everything, live like a rat in a sewer until you have 25M in the bank at 83 years old, is ridiculous. If you have a family and need a large space then buy a house and pay the mortgage. It is certainly going to be cheaper than renting the same-sized house. And if you end up getting a lemon, then fix it up and sell as soon as is feasible.
 
FindersFee5 said:
Wife and I are hoping to be somewhere we can get a house, but we have a pretty abnormal situation for residency. We've got a kid, she has a good job (with my resident salary we'll be making ~150k), we have enough saved for a 20% down payment, interest rates are historically low right now, and my residency is 6-7 years. I think if any of those factors was different though we wouldn't even be thinking about getting a home.
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Bingo. Living a similar life and also can fix literally anything on a house if I want to do so. I'm not worried at all. I've rented due to need for flexibility before the match. It is far more costly for our situation and where we live. I would need to replace the HVAC several times for it to even get close.
 
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It’s hard to imagine ever losing money on homeownership compared to renting if you just buy smart in the first place. Don’t buy something where the major things are old - no old roof, no old plumbing, no old electrical. Appliances are easily replaced so that’s not really a factor. Buy in a desirable part of town - I guarantee if you buy a really nice, brand new unit within a couple miles of a major hospital and/or university, and you take decent care of it, you’re not going to have trouble offloading it later. Mine was a new build and literally every appliance was under a warranty and so was the home itself. I didn’t have to replace a thing and didn’t spend a dime on maintenance the whole four years I lived there. Have good insurance that covers the entire cost of your home and all the belongings in it, for every disaster that could possibly happen in your area, and you’re fine.

My mortgage was $600/month when the people next to me were renting for $1400/month for the same floor plan, so I saved money and had a better quality of life up front just from the mortgage cost. Having an extra $800/month is not chump change... that pans out to nearly $10,000 per year that you don’t just lose. Plus, walked away with literally $35k in cash at closing (sold for more than $20k more than I paid for it, plus I’d been sneaking extra principal in over time when I felt like it), which allowed me to pay off my car and my credit cards from my app cycle and go into med school debt free.

Would have sucked carrying that car payment in med school, and that’s what I’d have been doing if I’d been renting and pouring my money down the drain. Nearest I can tell, buying saved me >$50,000 compared to renting for the four years I lived in the home. That’s all I know.
 
calivianya said:
It’s hard to imagine ever losing money on homeownership compared to renting if you just buy smart in the first place. Don’t buy something where the major things are old - no old roof, no old plumbing, no old electrical. Appliances are easily replaced so that’s not really a factor. Buy in a desirable part of town - I guarantee if you buy a really nice, brand new unit within a couple miles of a major hospital and/or university, and you take decent care of it, you’re not going to have trouble offloading it later. Mine was a new build and literally every appliance was under a warranty and so was the home itself. I didn’t have to replace a thing and didn’t spend a dime on maintenance the whole four years I lived there. Have good insurance that covers the entire cost of your home and all the belongings in it, for every disaster that could possibly happen in your area, and you’re fine.

My mortgage was $600/month when the people next to me were renting for $1400/month for the same floor plan, so I saved money and had a better quality of life up front just from the mortgage cost. Having an extra $800/month is not chump change... that pans out to nearly $10,000 per year that you don’t just lose. Plus, walked away with literally $35k in cash at closing (sold for more than $20k more than I paid for it, plus I’d been sneaking extra principal in over time when I felt like it), which allowed me to pay off my car and my credit cards from my app cycle and go into med school debt free.

Would have sucked carrying that car payment in med school, and that’s what I’d have been doing if I’d been renting and pouring my money down the drain. Nearest I can tell, buying saved me >$50,000 compared to renting for the four years I lived in the home. That’s all I know.
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Where the hell did you get a brand new house in a good location for 600/mo ??
 
calivianya said:
It’s hard to imagine ever losing money on homeownership compared to renting if you just buy smart in the first place. Don’t buy something where the major things are old - no old roof, no old plumbing, no old electrical. Appliances are easily replaced so that’s not really a factor. Buy in a desirable part of town - I guarantee if you buy a really nice, brand new unit within a couple miles of a major hospital and/or university, and you take decent care of it, you’re not going to have trouble offloading it later. Mine was a new build and literally every appliance was under a warranty and so was the home itself. I didn’t have to replace a thing and didn’t spend a dime on maintenance the whole four years I lived there. Have good insurance that covers the entire cost of your home and all the belongings in it, for every disaster that could possibly happen in your area, and you’re fine.

My mortgage was $600/month when the people next to me were renting for $1400/month for the same floor plan, so I saved money and had a better quality of life up front just from the mortgage cost. Having an extra $800/month is not chump change... that pans out to nearly $10,000 per year that you don’t just lose. Plus, walked away with literally $35k in cash at closing (sold for more than $20k more than I paid for it, plus I’d been sneaking extra principal in over time when I felt like it), which allowed me to pay off my car and my credit cards from my app cycle and go into med school debt free.

Would have sucked carrying that car payment in med school, and that’s what I’d have been doing if I’d been renting and pouring my money down the drain. Nearest I can tell, buying saved me >$50,000 compared to renting for the four years I lived in the home. That’s all I know.
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This is great to hear, but for many people it just doesn't end up as "fine". Plenty of people lose tons of money on home values when they try to move out a few years later. And it's a lot easier said than done to get a brand new house with appliances that are easily replaced and no old plumbing and electrical. This is not an uncommon phenomenon. Let alone if there is a massive economic hit like 08, you could easily be screwed.

The right answer to rent vs buy is extremely individualized and imo there's only a few instances like @FindersFee5, where it makes complete sense to buy
 
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efle said:
Where the hell did you get a brand new house in a good location for 600/mo ??
Click to expand...

Espressso said:
It sounds like that example is a complete outlier
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Not an outlier at all for cities around ~200k people in the southeast. There were much cheaper places available that were the same size - I didn’t even go low end. Could have bought a townhouse for the half the price I did, I just liked the finishes in mine and my location better. I’ve also lived in cities where the home prices were much lower than where I bought.

I also had ~$10k for a down payment and excellent credit. Both of those kept my costs down.
 
Jack Donaghy said:
You and me both. I had a dream last night that I opened the email to find I landed at #2. And in the dream I was crushed and devastated, which is really weird cuz I love my #2 and it could have been #1 under different circumstances.

This waiting game does a number on you lol
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I totes agree lol! I love my top three, would be happy as well with my #4 and 5 🙁 just worried about falling below three. having match nightmares too like I had a dream my screen cracked into a million pieces and i couldnt' read the email.
 
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