MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

[Ho0v-man]

Update: Still have the 5 interviews total. Starting to get a little stressed out and worried. I sent out some LOIs but only 2 programs replied letting me know they'd forward it to the recruitment committee.

Should I start to get worried? Anything more I can really do at this point? Any advice from anyone... pls

On a more positive note: 4/5 interviews complete at this time - I am pretty confident that the interviews went really well. The most recent interview had amazing conversations and PD & psychologist sent back thank you emails saying that the team really enjoyed their experience and talking to me.

So we all want 10+ interviews bc we’re all neurotic, risk averse, and this is of course a big deal. I forget the exact numbers bc they’re elsewhere in this thread, but 79-80% match their top 3 and it’s exceptionally rare to not match your top 5. It’s still a crappy situation. But worrying won’t do anything anyway and technically your odds of matching are high.

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[doc92ok]

So we all want 10+ interviews bc we’re all neurotic, risk averse, and this is of course a big deal. I forget the exact numbers bc they’re elsewhere in this thread, but 79-80% match their top 3 and it’s exceptionally rare to not match your top 5. It’s still a crappy situation. But worrying won’t do anything anyway and technically your odds of matching are high.

Are these statistics the same for US-MDs, DOs, IMGs? Or US grads only?

 

[FindersFee5]

So we all want 10+ interviews bc we’re all neurotic, risk averse, and this is of course a big deal. I forget the exact numbers bc they’re elsewhere in this thread, but 79-80% match their top 3 and it’s exceptionally rare to not match your top 5. It’s still a crappy situation. But worrying won’t do anything anyway and technically your odds of matching are high.

I think the biggest issue with interview numbers (even in a normal cycle, and especially this cycle) is that there is obviously a very strong correlation between people who GET more interviews (better applicants) -> people who ATTEND more interviews -> people who RANK more places -> higher percentage MATCH. Essentially all the interview numbers say is that better applicants have a better chance of matching. Chance of matching is probably predicted more granularly by (interview invites)/(total applications sent).

 

[Ho0v-man]

Are these statistics the same for US-MDs, DOs, IMGs? Or US grads only?

I attached it. After reanalysis, it looks like just going by the chart having >4 interviews is >60% chance for “independent applicants”. Which doesn’t sound amazing. But keep in mind the average matched IMG last year had about 7 ranks. Considering all the hoarding going on, we second class citizens (I’m a DO) are really feeling the squeeze this year and all of us have less interviews than we would have last year. An upperclassman at my school was super surprised that I didn’t have at least double the offers I got. So yeah our rank lists don’t get to be as long this year, but that also means programs are just going to plummet down their lists.

So when you consider that, OP is probably more or less on target for the number needed to be safe. Of course I’m just some dude on the internet making his best guess using data from last year and applying it to an atypical year. I’m certainly open to any challenges to this interpretation but I think this is the best way to look at this.

 

[efle]

I think the biggest issue with interview numbers (even in a normal cycle, and especially this cycle) is that there is obviously a very strong correlation between people who GET more interviews (better applicants) -> people who ATTEND more interviews -> people who RANK more places -> higher percentage MATCH. Essentially all the interview numbers say is that better applicants have a better chance of matching. Chance of matching is probably predicted more granularly by (interview invites)/(total applications sent).

I'd also say it's pretty useless to know total interview numbers without knowing where the interviews are. It's honestly kind of silly how they bin people.

Applicant A is highly competitive and loves his home department. He applies to a short list and has 6 interviews, which are all top academic centers plus his home program which is a sure thing anyways. He gets a fantastic match.

Applicant B is much less competitive and doesn't have a home department. He applies to almost every program in the country (don't laugh, this really happens in small competitive fields). He gets 6 interviews at smaller programs in undesirable locations. He's lucky to match at all, and probably wont love his life during training.

Lumping these both into the same bin for the Charting Outcomes document obscures this kind of thing. Unless the only criteria or concern is "matched/didn't match," we all need to stick to self assessments to figure out if we're on track for our personal targets

 

[doc92ok]

Applicant B is much less competitive and doesn't have a home department. He applies to almost every program in the country (don't laugh, this really happens in small competitive fields). He gets 6 interviews at smaller programs in undesirable locations. He's lucky to match at all, and probably wont love his life during training.

I feel called out lol

 

[ready2go2]

Lumping these both into the same bin for the Charting Outcomes document obscures this kind of thing.

Don’t use the charting outcomes PDF, use the interactive charting outcomes. You can input things like step scores, research, publications, AOA status etc. It’s much more accurate compared to just looking alone at contiguous rank and applicant type via the PDFs, especially because you can lump 5 years worth of data into it (you can also just select the most recent year).

Tableau Public

public.tableau.com

 

[efle]

I really wish they still posted the data on TYs like they used to in old Charting Outcomes (where you can see it's the 2nd lowest matchrate after Derm lol). I would have applied to a lot more

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

So we all want 10+ interviews bc we’re all neurotic, risk averse, and this is of course a big deal. I forget the exact numbers bc they’re elsewhere in this thread, but 79-80% match their top 3 and it’s exceptionally rare to not match your top 5. It’s still a crappy situation. But worrying won’t do anything anyway and technically your odds of matching are high.

According to the NRMP, 17.6% of USMDs fall 5 or more spots down their match list. That’s pretty high. That’s like the chances of going unmatched in derm or ortho.

 

[Ho0v-man]

According to the NRMP, 17.6% of USMDs fall 5 or more spots down their match list. That’s pretty high. That’s like the chances of going unmatched in derm or ortho.

Yeah I wish the data broke it down further. That number is for ranks 5—infinity though. So we can’t really say how many end up their 5th slot which would include OP. But if we move it up one notch (BAM!) and talk about slots 4—infinity then we’re at 21.9%. So if we assume a roughly proportional decrease going the other way, it’s in the mid—high 80s chance to match.

 

[efle]

According to the NRMP, 17.6% of USMDs fall 5 or more spots down their match list. That’s pretty high. That’s like the chances of going unmatched in derm or ortho.

Again though they obscure so much when they lump groups together. It's not hard to land in your top 5 for some specialties. Much harder in others. The average unmatched person in Neurosurg or Vascular had 10 ranks!

 

[FindersFee5]

Again though they obscure so much when they lump groups together. It's not hard to land in your top 5 for some specialties. Much harder in others. The average unmatched person in Neurosurg or Vascular had 10 ranks!

Again, I feel like that might be a result of application fever in those specialties though.

 

[JibsGuy52]

 

[efle]

Again, I feel like that might be a result of application fever in those specialties though.

I think program size in each specialty is a big part of it too. Much easier to tumble down a rank list when each program has like 3 spots per year, as opposed to dozens per class in stuff like IM, peds, anesthesia, etc.

 

[steadyhand]

do not do this

At this point it feels a rejection even is better than being ghosted. What do you think about sending a second short email?

 

[12jas]

Getting really burnt out on having to carry the conversation during these interviews. At least take the time to read my app and have a couple of questions prepared so it is not 20 minutes of me asking question after question.

 

[OverlyRomantic]

Getting really burnt out on having to carry the conversation during these interviews. At least take the time to read my app and have a couple of questions prepared so it is not 20 minutes of me asking question after question.

Seriously! I hate how they go "so what questions do you have for me," after asking 1 question. I've started telling them "hey I can ask questions all day but I want to make sure you get to know me so if you have more questions for me, please ask"

 

[Ho0v-man]

Getting really burnt out on having to carry the conversation during these interviews. At least take the time to read my app and have a couple of questions prepared so it is not 20 minutes of me asking question after question.

Had one today:

PD: “So my interview style is a little different. I know you’re a great candidate because you made it this far. So this is more just about getting to know you and seeing if you’re someone I can get along with.”

Me: “Sounds good.”

Inner me: “OH MY GOD I DON’T HAVE TO DO 100% OF THE WORK! IS THIS JOY? I CAN’T BE SURE. IT’S BEEN TOO LONG!!!”

PD: “So what questions do you have for me?”

Inner me: “Why do you hurt me?”

 

[getfat]

Had one today:

PD: “So my interview style is a little different. I know you’re a great candidate because you made it this far. So this is more just about getting to know you and seeing if you’re someone I can get along with.”

Me: “Sounds good.”

Inner me: “OH MY GOD I DON’T HAVE TO DO 100% OF THE WORK! IS THIS JOY? I CAN’T BE SURE. IT’S BEEN TOO LONG!!!”

PD: “So what questions do you have for me?”

Inner me: “Why do you hurt me?”

A couple programs at the bottom of my rank list had this exact interview ad nauseum.

"Tell me about yourself"

"OK great, do you have any questions for me"

"That would be a better questions for the residents"

Not even sure where to put them because theres nothing online about the program and i didn't learn anything about the program on interview day.

It's crazy how little effort some place put into recruiting residents.

 

[LutGholein]

A couple programs at the bottom of my rank list had this exact interview ad nauseum.

"Tell me about yourself"

"OK great, do you have any questions for me"

"That would be a better questions for the residents"

Not even sure where to put them because theres nothing online about the program and i didn't learn anything about the program on interview day.

It's crazy how little effort some place put into recruiting residents.

I just tell my inner-self “have fun in the SOAP guys” when these programs put absolutely NO WORK into the interview.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Is it worth it to apply to a back up specialty at this point?

 

[Prehealth1011]

@You shall know the Truth Pathology or Rad Onc maybe? I think it's too late for even FM and IM.

 

[Prehealth1011]

A couple programs at the bottom of my rank list had this exact interview ad nauseum.

"Tell me about yourself"

"OK great, do you have any questions for me"

"That would be a better questions for the residents"

Not even sure where to put them because theres nothing online about the program and i didn't learn anything about the program on interview day.

It's crazy how little effort some place put into recruiting residents.

I had the same experience a couple of times in my IM interview trail.

I actually like the "what would you do" behavioral questions now. Gets my juices flowing and the 20 mins go by quicker.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

@You shall know the Truth Pathology or Rad Onc maybe? I think it's too late for even FM and IM.

interesting

 

[Prehealth1011]

I could just be talking out of my ash btw. Apply away if you're uncomfortable.

 

[Naruhodo]

Not even sure where to put them because theres nothing online about the program and i didn't learn anything about the program on interview day.

It's crazy how little effort some place put into recruiting residents.

Yeah, one program booked me an hour 1:1 with the PD, and the moment I realized he didn't have a powerpoint or any kind of structured information to share with me I died a little inside. Still he seemed fantastic, his book selection (per shelves I could clearly see behind him) was on point, and I just decided 40mins in that I felt like I'd gotten everything I hoped to out of our time together and it was time to say thanks and go eat lunch. Hopefully that will not be misinterpreted, but since he seemed pretty chill I feel like he'd understand my not feeling like I needed to take up every minute of our hour together and we could both use that time more productively.

 

[OverlyRomantic]

Yeah, one program booked me an hour 1:1 with the PD, and the moment I realized he didn't have a powerpoint or any kind of structured information to share with me I died a little inside. Still he seemed fantastic, his book selection (per shelves I could clearly see behind him) was on point, and I just decided 40mins in that I felt like I'd gotten everything I hoped to out of our time together and it was time to say thanks and go eat lunch. Hopefully that will not be misinterpreted, but since he seemed pretty chill I feel like he'd understand my not feeling like I needed to take up every minute of our hour together and we could both use that time more productively.

1 hour!?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

@You shall know the Truth Pathology or Rad Onc maybe? I think it's too late for even FM and IM.

Yeah doesn’t FM send out most of its interviews really early in the season?

 

[bigindian4891]

Yeah doesn’t FM send out most of its interviews really early in the season?

Yep, most of our interview days are filled up.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Yep, most of our interview days are filled up.

Peds?

 

[Chibucks15]

Peds?

I mean I think almost everything has sent out most of interviews by now...that’s why there’s a trickle because of cancellations and such

 

[Espressso]

Peds?

What did you apply to if you don't mind me asking?

 

[bigindian4891]

Peds?

FM.

 

[Banco]

Man the best interviews are when you spend the whole time talking about a hobby or traveling experience or something. So much more refreshing than "yo so tell me about a time you effed up and failed." It actually makes the interview day so much more fun and it flies by; was lucky that all my interviews ended up being like that yesterday.

 

[frenchyn]

Man the best interviews are when you spend the whole time talking about a hobby or traveling experience or something. So much more refreshing than "yo so tell me about a time you effed up and failed." It actually makes the interview day so much more fun and it flies by; was lucky that all my interviews ended up being like that yesterday.

I had to “tell me a time you made a major mistake” x 8 times...today. I almost shoot myself. I then realized how much I miss “tell me about yourself”...

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I had to “tell me a time you made a major mistake” x 8 times...today. I almost shoot myself. I then realized how much I miss “tell me about yourself”...

You should have said applying to this program.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Got an interview this morning only to realize it started 30 minutes before I got the invite. Is it March yet?

 

[Neopolymath]

Got an interview this morning only to realize it started 30 minutes before I got the invite. Is it March yet?

pm me bro

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Lol I just got a rejection from a program I’ve already interviewed at. Should I message them? I’d hate to be left off the rank list because of some error

 

[getfat]

Lol I just got a rejection from a program I’ve already interviewed at. Should I message them? I’d hate to be left off the rank list because of some error

Thats pretty wierd but i gotta ask. Do they do rejections post IV like for med school?

Never heard of it personally.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Thats pretty wierd but i gotta ask. Do they do rejections post IV like for med school?

Never heard of it personally.

No it’s one of those “We’ve finished our review process and unfortunately are not able to extend you an interview” emails. So clearly a mistake, but I would hate to have some administrative error make it so I wasn’t on the rank list or something

 

[getfat]

No it’s one of those “We’ve finished our review process and unfortunately are not able to extend you an interview” emails. So clearly a mistake, but I would hate to have some administrative error make it so I wasn’t on the rank list or something

Oh yeah then definitely, "hey just want to clarify this email because i had genuine interest in coming here after interviewing".

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

I would email them. That sounds like an administrative error.

 

[deleted697308]

No it’s one of those “We’ve finished our review process and unfortunately are not able to extend you an interview” emails. So clearly a mistake, but I would hate to have some administrative error make it so I wasn’t on the rank list or something

Email them. It happened to me for one program but it was just they clicked all instead of just the rejected.

 

[Spectreman]

Man the best interviews are when you spend the whole time talking about a hobby or traveling experience or something. So much more refreshing than "yo so tell me about a time you effed up and failed." It actually makes the interview day so much more fun and it flies by; was lucky that all my interviews ended up being like that yesterday.

I had an interview last week where we were in the group chat room for 4 freaking hours. After 3 hours I was like “let’s talk about something else, what are some of your favorite movies?” They were like “we don’t watch movies...” and went back to answering stupid reach questions from the other candidates.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I had an interview last week where we were in the group chat room for 4 freaking hours. After 3 hours I was like “let’s talk about something else, what are some of your favorite movies?” They were like “we don’t watch movies...” and went back to answering stupid reach questions from the other candidates.

Rank that program last. You wanna run that 4 hour interview next year?

 

[FindersFee5]

Got a rejection today that read "We are not able to extend you an interview at this time. This decision is based on numerous factors after a thorough review of your application."

WELL IT'S GOOD TO KNOW THAT YOU'RE SO CERTAIN YOU DON'T WANT ME

 

[sunshinefl]

I actually have had some enjoyable interview days because of hanging with the other candidates +/- some program staff like the PC in the main zoom room. I had one this week where we were there for like 5 hours minus our individual 25 min interview, voluntarily ( we could log off or come and go outside of our individual interview)... and we had like 30+ minutes of pet show and tell, laughed at/with the PC eating some fruit with a worm crawling out, talked about sports, got a virtual walking tour from the PC including their Christmas tree with personalized ornaments for each resident, etc.

 

[deleted645092]

I actually have had some enjoyable interview days because of hanging with the other candidates +/- some program staff like the PC in the main zoom room. I had one this week where we were there for like 5 hours minus our individual 25 min interview, voluntarily ( we could log off or come and go outside of our individual interview)... and we had like 30+ minutes of pet show and tell, laughed at/with the PC eating some fruit with a worm crawling out, talked about sports, got a virtual walking tour from the PC including their Christmas tree with personalized ornaments for each resident, etc.

Big positive for the worm in the fruit, you know the local produce is organic.

 

[Banco]

That feeling when you have a meet and greet that's split up into breakout rooms, there are only 3 applicants, 2 of them have no personality and the residents also look like they don't want to be there. Just talk to myself I guess...