MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

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efle said:
Anybody actually skip on "optional" social hours? They haven't really added anything to the interview day resident Q&A sessions for me so far.
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I accidentally skipped one and apologized blaming time zones and it wasn't a big deal at all. I'm running into that as well where between the website, social hour, presentation, and like the first interview all questions I have are answered so I ask all the cliche ones. But when most programs ramped up their websites to account for COVID, either I ask questions I know the answer to or I ask the cliche nonsense ones
 
Ho0v-man said:
I got grilled by a PD about why I missed one. That ones going to the bottom of the list lol.
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oh its definitely something you SHOULD go to unless you have a good excuse, but even this year you can make up pretty much any excuse from "other engagements" to "computer issues"
 
efle said:
Anybody actually skip on "optional" social hours? They haven't really added anything to the interview day resident Q&A sessions for me so far.
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No I haven’t skipped anything that was optional. However, less than half of my interviews have had any optional social.
 
efle said:
Anybody actually skip on "optional" social hours? They haven't really added anything to the interview day resident Q&A sessions for me so far.
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I zoned out and missed the one at my home institution. I didn't send an apology, because I believe it was completely optional and I'd just been through a full day of interviews with them. Trying to not miss any others though (unless I get a vibe from the interview day that it's really a program I wouldn't want to go to, but haven't had that experience yet).
 
Naruhodo said:
I zoned out and missed the one at my home institution. I didn't send an apology, because I believe it was completely optional and I'd just been through a full day of interviews with them. Trying to not miss any others though (unless I get a vibe from the interview day that it's really a program I wouldn't want to go to, but haven't had that experience yet).
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someone asked a PC on the reddit spreadsheet i'm on and she said they don't keep track so you're good!
i've actually gone to all mine!

Ho0v-man said:
I got grilled by a PD about why I missed one. That ones going to the bottom of the list lol.
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what ... that's crazy! how they know? :O
 
iamarosepetal said:
someone asked a PC on the reddit spreadsheet i'm on and she said they don't keep track so you're good!
i've actually gone to all mine!


what ... that's crazy! how they know? :O
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Not to freak people out who deliberately or accidentally didn’t attend, but I always figured even if they don’t track attendance officially, it could subconsciously affect their impression of you. Even if it’s just missing out on a resident more fiercely advocating for you when ranking comes around.
 
iamarosepetal said:
someone asked a PC on the reddit spreadsheet i'm on and she said they don't keep track so you're good!
i've actually gone to all mine!


what ... that's crazy! how they know? :O
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I asked a generic “What do like about [city X]?” Or something like that. It was something about the town and not program specific and the PD answered but then was all like “Did you not go to the social with the residents?”

And I was like “Uhhh, no not yet.”

And PD was like “Why not?”

And I was like “Uhhh...sorry.”

And PD was like “Well a question like that is more appropriate for them, not someone like me.”

And I was like “Oh okay. I apologize. There’s one on Monday I’ll be sure to attend.”

no I didn’t attend it. I’ll make a blood sacrifice the NRMP gods to avoid going there lol.
 
Ho0v-man said:
I asked a generic “What do like about [city X]?” Or something like that. It was something about the town and not program specific and the PD answered but then was all like “Did you not go to the social with the residents?”

And I was like “Uhhh, no not yet.”

And PD was like “Why not?”

And I was like “Uhhh...sorry.”

And PD was like “Well a question like that is more appropriate for them, not someone like me.”

And I was like “Oh okay. I apologize. There’s one on Monday I’ll be sure to attend.”

no I didn’t attend it. I’ll make a blood sacrifice the NRMP gods to avoid going there lol.
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What a douche. Too big for his britches lol
 
Ho0v-man said:
I asked a generic “What do like about [city X]?” Or something like that. It was something about the town and not program specific and the PD answered but then was all like “Did you not go to the social with the residents?”

And I was like “Uhhh, no not yet.”

And PD was like “Why not?”

And I was like “Uhhh...sorry.”

And PD was like “Well a question like that is more appropriate for them, not someone like me.”

And I was like “Oh okay. I apologize. There’s one on Monday I’ll be sure to attend.”

no I didn’t attend it. I’ll make a blood sacrifice the NRMP gods to avoid going there lol.
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This is not normal. For context, last year even pre-covid my PD had made brief orientation videos about the curriculum, electives, wellness initiatives, research funding, things to do in the city and even neighborhoods that residents and attendings typically live in around the city that were available to us before and after the interview. As we wrapped up our interview and walked to lunch I asked for restaurant recommendations because I would be in the city for a few days and he was happy to give me some. Every single interviewer was happy to recommend things to me and tell me what they liked.
 
Ho0v-man said:
I asked a generic “What do like about [city X]?” Or something like that. It was something about the town and not program specific and the PD answered but then was all like “Did you not go to the social with the residents?”

And I was like “Uhhh, no not yet.”

And PD was like “Why not?”

And I was like “Uhhh...sorry.”

And PD was like “Well a question like that is more appropriate for them, not someone like me.”

And I was like “Oh okay. I apologize. There’s one on Monday I’ll be sure to attend.”

no I didn’t attend it. I’ll make a blood sacrifice the NRMP gods to avoid going there lol.
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Sometimes you have to read people and tailor questions specific to their roles. I don't ask PD or chair this question “What do you like about [city X]?” They have the leader complex...they want to be asked more about their programs, their roles, and their leadership style etc...
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Eh, no resident is advocating for an applicant based on a Zoom happy hour
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Ye. I don't think the residents (outside of chief residents who interview) can really move you upward much. They mostly have the power to say, hey we hated this person please don't rank them highly, and drop your rank.
 
frenchyn said:
Sometimes you have to read people and tailor questions specific to their roles. I don't ask PD or chair this question “What do you like about [city X]?” They have the leader complex...they want to be asked more about their programs, their roles, and their leadership style etc...
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That is 100% not on him for that exchange. That is a huge red flag to me. That PD acted like a douche canoe.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
That is 100% not on him for that exchange. That is a huge red flag to me. That PD acted like a douche canoe.
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Well...wait until you interview at surgical subspecialty and top programs...the god complex and hierarchy is high. It is always best to play it safe.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Yeah that’s a massive red flag. Depending on the situation I was in interview wise I would seriously debate even ranking the program
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Ya sure, for an applicant who did not seem to interest enough to get to know the program and the resident (not attending the meet and greet)...and have nothing else to ask about the program but what do you like about the location...it may be a red flag for the program as well...It is a two-way process.
 
frenchyn said:
Ya sure, for an applicant who did not seem to interest enough to get to know the program and the resident (not attending the meet and greet)...and have nothing else to ask about the program but what do you like about the location...it may be a red flag for the program as well...It is a two-way process.
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That’s an extremely normal and reasonable question to ask. You’re just assuming that’s all he could think to ask.
 
frenchyn said:
Ya sure, for an applicant who did not seem to interest enough to get to know the program and the resident (not attending the meet and greet)...and have nothing else to ask about the program but what do you like about the location...it may be a red flag for the program as well...It is a two-way process.
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For reference, it was one of those situations where I’d been carrying the conversation the entire way through and had asked those typical questions already and was just trying to be conversational. They have a meet and greet every week that was supposed to be optional and I had planned to attend the next one.
 
frenchyn said:
Ya sure, for an applicant who did not seem to interest enough to get to know the program and the resident (not attending the meet and greet)...and have nothing else to ask about the program but what do you like about the location...it may be a red flag for the program as well...It is a two-way process.
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He could have easily answered the question and then say something like make sure to ask the residents too/did the residents have any good answers for that question?

Id 100% ask every faculty and resident what their fav part about the town is, a mid 20s person thats been living there for <5yrs vs a faculty thats been there for 20+ could give you a good variety of answers to at least get an idea for the location especially since we dont have the ability to visit now a days.

If a PD has too much of a god complex to answer a question like that even in a surg sub at a t10 place, then it’s still a horrible look and would definitely cause me to rank them lower. Youre gonna be there for quite a few years, having a terribly unapproachable boss would make for a horrible time
 
I had one interviewer who cold opened with "so whatcha wanna talk about?" and then just let me pick a topic and we chatted about it for 20 min

Much better than having me ask recycled questions the whole time. Honestly it seems like some of these interviews are just to make sure we're not psychos
 
Scrubs101 said:
He could have easily answered the question and then say something like make sure to ask the residents too/did the residents have any good answers for that question?

Id 100% ask every faculty and resident what their fav part about the town is, a mid 20s person thats been living there for <5yrs vs a faculty thats been there for 20+ could give you a good variety of answers to at least get an idea for the location especially since we dont have the ability to visit now a days.

If a PD has too much of a god complex to answer a question like that even in a surg sub at a t10 place, then it’s still a horrible look and would definitely cause me to rank them lower. Youre gonna be there for quite a few years, having a terribly unapproachable boss would make for a horrible time
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"If"...no one passed a surg sub at a T10 for a simple thing like this....hahahah...because guess what? It is better than ending up at a ****ter place with terrible operative training. But you are welcome to rank it lower...I am sure there are other applicants would fight for that opportunity.
 
frenchyn said:
"If"...no one passed a surg sub at a T10 for a simple thing like this....hahahah...because guess what? It is better than ending up at a ****ter place with terrible operative training. But you are welcome to rank it lower...I am sure there are other applicants would fight for that opportunity.
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I’d rather go to a lower ranked community program than a malignant t10. Life is too short.
 
There’s a whole lot of hyperbole going on here. If someone is interviewing at one top program, chances are they are interviewing at others and will rank the ones with a healthy culture higher. It’s probably not Harvard vs. bottom of the barrel. They probably have plenty of options with high case volume and good operative training.

If someone has a big enough god complex that they can’t be pleasant during *recruitment*, that would raise red flags. Your PD is going to be the one who is supposed to have your back in things with admin, covid protocols, other departments, tough cases, etc. And they can’t even tell you one thing they like about where they live? Yeesh, that’s not even a difficult question. Yes, you probably shouldn’t be asking the PD about how the hospital food is and what a typical call night is like. But location?? In a virtual interview? When you are hundreds of miles away? Fair game to ask anyone I would say.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I’d rather go to a lower ranked community program than a malignant t10. Life is too short.
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This, honestly. Not to mention with the surg specialties high ranking does not equal good operative experience, like at all. Ive met residents at “bottom20” programs per doximity that are miles better than residents of their same class at “top20” programs.

Lifes not all about the ivory tower folks, rank where you think you can get good training while also being happy over the prestige. Unless of course academic medicine is your goal.

Also would agree with frenchyn on the part about matching, if its between miserable PD and not matching obvi do whatever you can to not piss that PD off. But if you have options id def still put it at the bottom of the list.
 
Scrubs101 said:
This, honestly. Not to mention with the surg specialties high ranking does not equal good operative experience, like at all. Ive met residents at “bottom20” programs per doximity that are miles better than residents of their same class at “top20” programs.

Lifes not all about the ivory tower folks, rank where you think you can get good training while also being happy over the prestige. Unless of course academic medicine is your goal.

Also would agree with frenchyn on the part about matching, if its between miserable PD and not matching obvi do whatever you can to not piss that PD off. But if you have options id def still put it at the bottom of the list.
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You all feel free to rank top programs lower...True is, no top programs go unfilled...so I will take the spot anytime.
 
I heard of a great applicant walking out of an interview because the PD was asking questions like what other programs he interviewed at (clear match violations). Such a ballsy move especially since he had to spend money to travel for the interview but respect
 
Coming back to this thread after a few days
donald glover pizza GIF
 
I highly encourage you all to go to all of the optional pre-interview zoom meetings. I think I can safely say us residents are a little more honest over zoom than in person and if you want real answers, you should go and ask your questions. Despite these being virtual, you can also still get a feel for how the residents interact and what the program is like.

Most reasonable people won't judge you for not attending. These sessions really are for you. If I were in the position you all are in, I would maximize as much time with the residents as I could to get as accurate a picture as possible.
 
frenchyn said:
Ya sure, for an applicant who did not seem to interest enough to get to know the program and the resident (not attending the meet and greet)...and have nothing else to ask about the program but what do you like about the location...it may be a red flag for the program as well...It is a two-way process.
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If you can’t have a normal conversation with an applicant that’s a red flag, full stop. It’s a very reasonable question for anyone, particularly in COVID where you can’t, you know, actually be there.
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I’d rather go to a lower ranked community program than a malignant t10. Life is too short.
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I am currently struggling with this very concept. Not even malignant programs, but I interviewed at a community program I fell in love with for a large number of reasons. Now I have this crisis every day going over whether or not I will rank it above the well known academic programs I have, and they are all non-malignant and have great reputations culture and training wise.

This decision is going to suck lol.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
If you can’t have a normal conversation with an applicant that’s a red flag, full stop. It’s a very reasonable question for anyone, particularly in COVID where you can’t, you know, actually be there.

I am currently struggling with this very concept. Not even malignant programs, but I interviewed at a community program I fell in love with for a large number of reasons. Now I have this crisis every day going over whether or not I will rank it above the well known academic programs I have, and they are all non-malignant and have great reputations culture and training wise.

This decision is going to suck lol.
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Which specialty?
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
If you can’t have a normal conversation with an applicant that’s a red flag, full stop. It’s a very reasonable question for anyone, particularly in COVID where you can’t, you know, actually be there.

I am currently struggling with this very concept. Not even malignant programs, but I interviewed at a community program I fell in love with for a large number of reasons. Now I have this crisis every day going over whether or not I will rank it above the well known academic programs I have, and they are all non-malignant and have great reputations culture and training wise.

This decision is going to suck lol.
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If I really want to learn about a place,I am not sure it is the best to learn from few people's point of views. Believe it or not, nowadays you can learn about a place easily through the net...so no...definitely not worth taking the risk and ask PD/chair these randoms questions. It is more appropriate for residents/junior faculties. For those senior faculties/PD/chair, they are usually very well-accomplished, there are so much more to learn about them than what do you like about the location.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
I am currently struggling with this very concept. Not even malignant programs, but I interviewed at a community program I fell in love with for a large number of reasons. Now I have this crisis every day going over whether or not I will rank it above the well known academic programs I have, and they are all non-malignant and have great reputations culture and training wise.
Click to expand...

Yeah I dunno man. I think in the end, you need to rank them based on how much you love the program and not based on prestige unless you know you absolutely want to do academics.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
If you can’t have a normal conversation with an applicant that’s a red flag, full stop. It’s a very reasonable question for anyone, particularly in COVID where you can’t, you know, actually be there.

I am currently struggling with this very concept. Not even malignant programs, but I interviewed at a community program I fell in love with for a large number of reasons. Now I have this crisis every day going over whether or not I will rank it above the well known academic programs I have, and they are all non-malignant and have great reputations culture and training wise.

This decision is going to suck lol.
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If you want to do a fellowship other than trauma, probably rank the higher programs.
Ngl though on my list I have lower ranked academic programs over some T20 programs I received. Just cause I didn't think I'd fit in with the people.
 
Oo Cipher oO said:
I interviewed at a program that puts you in payroll and benefits June 1 even though orientation doesn’t start for a few weeks after. Just though that was a very considerate way for programs to throw us a bone and help cover the transition period from Med school to residency. More programs should consider doing this.
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Interestingly, several programs I'm looking at have relocation allowances....they're meager but better than nothing. One gives a 0% relocation loan you repay out of your paycheck, which is kinda cheap. One place gives a relocation allowance only if you're moving from further than 100 miles away.....so you're SOL if you happen to already live in that city.
 
efle said:
Anybody actually skip on "optional" social hours? They haven't really added anything to the interview day resident Q&A sessions for me so far.
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No I'm doing them all. I rushed home after 12 hours in the OR today to do one this evening in fact....and it was for the program I auditioned at. I still learned new info about the place, so I'm glad I attended.
 
frenchyn said:
If I really want to learn about a place,I am not sure it is the best to learn from few people's point of views. Believe it or not, nowadays you can learn about a place easily through the net...so no...definitely not worth taking the risk and ask PD/chair these randoms questions. It is more appropriate for residents/junior faculties. For those senior faculties/PD/chair, they are usually very well-accomplished, there are so much more to learn about them than what do you like about the location.
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Please stop. I have asked nearly every PD and APD ("very well-accomplished" or not) how they feel about the location. I've gotten good insight into places based on their answers. I ask the residents the same questions if I have time. You're saying you'd rather "learn about a place easily through the net"? Come on. Its better to ask the people who, you know, actually live and work there. It almost sounds like you think that question is beneath them.
 
bigindian4891 said:
Please stop. I have asked nearly every PD and APD ("very well-accomplished" or not) how they feel about the location. I've gotten good insight into places based on their answers. I ask the residents the same questions if I have time. You're saying you'd rather "learn about a place easily through the net"? Come on. Its better to ask the people who, you know, actually live and work there. It almost sounds like you think that question is beneath them.
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Sure. Go ask Pd/chair at one of sub surgical specialty at one of those top programs. Obviously not every PD/chair take it positively as evidenced by what happened to OP.

Btw, I have my own opinion...I can do and say what I want...you know I don’t have to stop just because you say so right? 🤦‍♀️ This is a open forum.

Also, I lived at places where people said have amazing things and foods...that is absolutely not true in my experience. People can have different life experience, culture, background and expectation...so few people tell me they love the city may not align with my own standard and expectation. Hence why I said I can better research those on my own to see it fits with what I look for....compared with taking the risk and pissing of PD/chair. If you have more important thing you want to know about a chair/PD than how they like a place, you gotta try harder. They are all very well accomplished there are so much things I can learn from them and obviously always good to give your interviewers to brag about themselves...who not like an opportunity to brag about themselves vs talking about the city they live in huh?

this is my opinion. You can disagree. I don’t care. Do what you want obviously because it is your interviews and your future.
 
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frenchyn said:
Sure. Go ask Pd/chair at one of sub surgical specialty at one of those top programs. Obviously not every PD/chair take it positively as evidenced by what happened to OP.

Btw, I have my own opinion...I can do and say what I want...you know I don’t have to stop just because you say so right? 🤦‍♀️ This is a open forum
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Every time you criticize or blatantly say that every one else’s opinion is wrong, then if anyone throws it back at ya you get defensive cmon now
 
Chibucks15 said:
Every time you criticize or blatantly say that every one else’s opinion is wrong, then if anyone throws it back at ya you
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Did I say everyone were wrong lol? Obviously we have different opinions. Why do you think I even care enough to get defensive? Is it my interview? Nope. Is it my career? Nope. 🤣
 
efle said:
Anybody actually skip on "optional" social hours? They haven't really added anything to the interview day resident Q&A sessions for me so far.
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Yeah, had to skip one due to scheduling conflict. Listen if they are saying it's optional, I am taking that at face value. Most just seem to be residents anyway and it's very casual.
 
frenchyn said:
Sure. Go ask Pd/chair at one of sub surgical specialty at one of those top programs. Obviously not every PD/chair take it positively as evidenced by what happened to OP.
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Thats exactly what @AnatomyGrey12 was saying up there. If a PD takes a simple question about location negatively, that is a red flag.

Imagine the horror if you asked the PD what they like to do in their free time! 😵😵😵
 
iamarosepetal said:
someone asked a PC on the reddit spreadsheet i'm on and she said they don't keep track so you're good!
i've actually gone to all mine!


what ... that's crazy! how they know?
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Oh god, literally today as I was reading this forum I accidentally missed a mandatory session (at least it wasn't a 1:1 interview) for a residency interview. It's not even the half-way point yet and I'm clearly starting to be burnt out on zoom interviews. OK, less time here and more time actually reading the detailed schedules/ multiple emails/ attachments that programs send so I don't do this again....
 
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frenchyn said:
Did I say everyone were wrong lol? Obviously we have different opinions. Why do you think I even care enough to get defensive? Is it my interview? Nope. Is it my career? Nope. 🤣
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and yet, here you are derailing the thread again to chastise people repeatedly for not sharing your opinion.
 
iamarosepetal said:
If you want to do a fellowship other than trauma, probably rank the higher programs.
Ngl though on my list I have lower ranked academic programs over some T20 programs I received. Just cause I didn't think I'd fit in with the people.
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Yeah this is the big hang up I have. It has nothing to do with training, but going to the community program will close some doors in that regard.

The community place has sporadically put people in Vasc, CRS, breast, etc, but it would be so much easier to land a fellowship from the university programs.
 
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