MD & DO co'21 Residency Panic thread

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For example, this was the chance of matching in 2020 for MD senior applicants with 3 contiguous ranks:

Anesthesia 56%
Derm 61%
Radiology 66%
Emergency Med 30%
Family Med 86%
Surgery 40%
Internal Med 82%
Neurosurg 0%
Neurology 80%
Ob/gyn 78%
Ortho 47%
ENT 90%
Pathology 83%
Peds 81%
PM&R 80%
Plastics 30%
Psychiatry 57%

Source: https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacd...utcomes-in-the-Match-2020_MD-Senior_final.pdf
 
Feedback2020 said:
For example, this was the chance of matching in 2020 for MD senior applicants with 3 contiguous ranks:

Anesthesia 56%
Derm 61%
Radiology 66%
Emergency Med 30%
Family Med 86%
Surgery 40%
Internal Med 82%
Neurosurg 0%
Neurology 80%
Ob/gyn 78%
Ortho 47%
ENT 90%
Pathology 83%
Peds 81%
PM&R 80%
Plastics 30%
Psychiatry 57%

Source: https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacd...utcomes-in-the-Match-2020_MD-Senior_final.pdf
Click to expand...
Lmao. Nes 0%. Highly depend on the specialty, your rank list (top heavy, reach, low tier program etc, your aim of #1...my friend claimed she matched at her #1...which I did not even bother to apply) and how strong your app over all. Statistically yes >70% match at their top 3...but without looking at anything else, it is difficult to say if one falls within the 70% or 30%...
 
frenchyn said:
Lmao. Nes 0%. Highly depend on the specialty, your rank list (top heavy, reach, low tier program etc, your aim of #1...my friend claimed she matched at her #1...which I did not even bother to apply) and how strong your app over all. Statistically yes >70% match at their top 3...but without looking at anything else, it is difficult to say if one falls within the 70% or 30%...
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93.7% of MD seniors matched in 2020 (source: Medical students match in record numbers, celebrate virtually)
 
Feedback2020 said:
For example, this was the chance of matching in 2020 for MD senior applicants with 3 contiguous ranks:

Anesthesia 56%
Derm 61%
Radiology 66%
Emergency Med 30%
Family Med 86%
Surgery 40%
Internal Med 82%
Neurosurg 0%
Neurology 80%
Ob/gyn 78%
Ortho 47%
ENT 90%
Pathology 83%
Peds 81%
PM&R 80%
Plastics 30%
Psychiatry 57%

Source: https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacd...utcomes-in-the-Match-2020_MD-Senior_final.pdf
Click to expand...

Only listing 3 contiguous rank =\= the likelihood of matching your top 3.
 
scrublyfe21 said:
Yea I’d imagine having only 3 contiguous ranks (in a normal year) means there was a red flag keeping you from getting more interviews and making you someone a program might see as a “risk” to rank highly and take a flyer on in the first place. That data above shouldn’t be taken at face value without context.
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*everyone with 3 interviews murders you*

176 people had 3 or fewer contiguous ranks in internal medicine alone last year.
 
Feedback2020 said:
*everyone with 3 interviews murders you*

176 people had 3 or fewer contiguous ranks in internal medicine alone last year.
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What specialty are you applying to? You posted recently with 3 interviews.
Agree with previous poster, l data does not mean much without context.
 
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frenchyn said:
What specialty are you applying to? You posted recently with 3 interviews.
Agree with previous poster, l data does not mean much without context.
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He/She ain't gonna answer that question. Something about no personal information on an anonymous forum.
 
Feedback2020 said:
For example, this was the chance of matching in 2020 for MD senior applicants with 3 contiguous ranks:

Anesthesia 56%
Derm 61%
Radiology 66%
Emergency Med 30%
Family Med 86%
Surgery 40%
Internal Med 82%
Neurosurg 0%
Neurology 80%
Ob/gyn 78%
Ortho 47%
ENT 90%
Pathology 83%
Peds 81%
PM&R 80%
Plastics 30%
Psychiatry 57%

Source: https://mk0nrmp3oyqui6wqfm.kinstacd...utcomes-in-the-Match-2020_MD-Senior_final.pdf
Click to expand...
Fascinating. In your original post in the MD forum about this very topic, you seemed very dismissive over the recommendations to use the charting outcomes pdf to help guide your question about the likelihood of matching with x interviews. You said something about it being "historical" and that it is outdated. But here you are sharing data from that very same document.
 
Prehealth1011 said:
I'm sure it's posted here somewhere but I'm too lazy to find it. Is it ~70% for DOs as well (in general for all specialties)?
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I dont think charting outcomes has ever had this data. But I'd guess less competitive fields with larger class sizes would be even higher
 
Espressso said:
Fascinating. In your original post in the MD forum about this very topic, you seemed very dismissive over the recommendations to use the charting outcomes pdf to help guide your question about the likelihood of matching with x interviews. You said something about it being "historical" and that it is outdated. But here you are sharing data from that very same document.
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You've got an attitude problem.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
I can’t speak for @iamarosepetal , but for me the academic places are much more research driven, typically more hierarchal, and, at least at some of the places I have interviewed, have varying levels of technical skill. For me and my career goals, and for my family, some of the more community places are just a much better fit.
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I would add that it also felt like the program knew it would fill without having to particularly court applicants nor adjust in response to resident feedback. The place I got this vibe had by far the most confusing interview days (with multiple documents with different links), asked their faculty/residents to be available at odd hours for the interviews (like until 9pm), and just frankly didn't seem to care as much about what the interview nor residency experience was like. Agree 100% with those saying fit is about more things than just prestige.
 
Naruhodo said:
I would add that it also felt like the program knew it would fill without having to particularly court applicants nor adjust in response to resident feedback. The place I got this vibe had by far the most confusing interview days (with multiple documents with different links), asked their faculty/residents to be available at odd hours for the interviews (like until 9pm), and just frankly didn't seem to care as much about what the interview nor residency experience was like. Agree 100% with those saying fit is about more things than just prestige.
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Agreed. Interviewed at a Top 10 program and was going to rank them high. The PD didn't even know my name or the basics of my application. Residents openly bashed their program, and the culture was lacking in a large program with residents who were superstars but lacked cohesiveness as a group.

Just because it's ranked high does not mean that the faculty will automatically be invested in you. If rank is your thing, sure, but I suppose for most people, as has been echoed before, it's about fit over anything else!
 
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Noemata said:
Agreed. Interviewed at a Top 10 program and was going to rank them high. The PD didn't even know my name or the basics of my application. Residents openly bashed their program, and the culture was lacking in a large program with residents who were superstars but lacked cohesiveness as a group.

Just because it's ranked high does not mean that the faculty will automatically be invested in you. If rank is your thing, sure, but I suppose for most people, as has been echoed before, it's about fit over anything else!
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I had a similar experience.

Some of my best experiences have been at "middle tier" programs. During the happy hours and/or resident Q&As, the residents are constantly engaged, joking with one another, etc. It was evident they were quite cohesive as a group. These kind of interactions matter significantly more than a Doximity rating (to me, at least).
 
Why do these apparently awful environments to train in get consistently ranked at the top by surveys of faculty and the specialty at large? I'd think malignant programs would fall down the ranks and popular "mid tiers" rise up them
 
efle said:
Why do these apparently awful environments to train in get consistently ranked at the top by surveys of faculty and the specialty at large? I'd think malignant programs would fall down the ranks and popular "mid tiers" rise up them
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The field of medicine draws from masochists.
 
efle said:
Why do these apparently awful environments to train in get consistently ranked at the top by surveys of faculty and the specialty at large? I'd think malignant programs would fall down the ranks and popular "mid tiers" rise up them
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Not all top programs are awful lol. N=1 above does not speak for all. Plus it depends on what one looks for programs beyond fit: training quality, future opportunities for fellowship etc, research, jobs in academia...etc
 
frenchyn said:
Not all top programs are awful lol. N=1 above does not speak for all. Plus it depends on what one looks for programs beyond fit: training quality, future opportunities for fellowship etc, research, jobs in academia...etc
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Sure, but how do the awful ones stay as top programs? If the place is so miserable that they give you a bad impression within a few hours as a candidate, why is everyone across the country putting them on the short list of best places to train every year?
 
efle said:
Sure, but how do the awful ones stay as top programs? If the place is so miserable that they give you a bad impression within a few hours as a candidate, why is everyone across the country putting them on the short list of best places to train every year?
Click to expand...
We might have an implicit bias too. We expect top places to be amazing, so when they aren't, we tend to remember them more. Whereas if a mid-tier place came across as average, no big deal, they're only mid-tier to start with.
 
efle said:
Sure, but how do the awful ones stay as top programs? If the place is so miserable that they give you a bad impression within a few hours as a candidate, why is everyone across the country putting them on the short list of best places to train every year?
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Oh come on, you know the answer: name recognition. If I could train at one of the most famous institutions, but have a miserable time and horrible QOL, maybe just maybe I can convince myself that it's all worth it. And I bet many do.
 
efle said:
Sure, but how do the awful ones stay as top programs? If the place is so miserable that they give you a bad impression within a few hours as a candidate, why is everyone across the country putting them on the short list of best places to train every year?
Click to expand...
Because they are a fast track to whatever career you want? And we love brand names.

MGH is a good example. Phenomenal surgery program from top to bottom, yet it’s notorious for being very hierarchal and old school in culture.

Not every top program is malignant, but there are more than a few reasons why someone wouldn’t choose where to go for 5-7 years based purely on prestige. I said it before, but just because a program is higher ranked than another doesn’t mean it has better training.
 
Good points, I figured a malignant program would put out bad product at the end, but maybe these programs can be both malignant and provide fantastic training.
 
efle said:
Good points, I figured a malignant program would put out bad product at the end, but maybe these programs can be both malignant and provide fantastic training.
Click to expand...

They don’t even have to provide fantastic training. They just have to get people where they want to go. Training at MGH will get you anywhere even if the training is mediocre because of the name (not saying their training is mediocre lol—just using them as an example).
 
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efle said:
Good points, I figured a malignant program would put out bad product at the end, but maybe these programs can be both malignant and provide fantastic training.
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Yeah you can be malignant and give great training. But it’s pretty easy to see why someone would choose a program that gave fantastic training without the culture, even if it were slightly lower ranked.

The flip side is obviously non-malignant doesn’t equal great training either. Just like malignant doesn’t mean bad training. I know of one program that is well regarded, highly ranked, lauded for their great culture, and yet gives weak operative training. Same with some low tier and community programs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Because they are a fast track to whatever career you want? And we love brand names.

MGH is a good example. Phenomenal surgery program from top to bottom, yet it’s notorious for being very hierarchal and old school in culture.

Not every top program is malignant, but there are more than a few reasons why someone wouldn’t choose where to go for 5-7 years based purely on prestige. I said it before, but just because a program is higher ranked than another doesn’t mean it has better training.
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I think the longer I take a look at this the more I’m on board with putting quality of life above name— what’s the use of name without being happy to come there everyday (unless prestige makes you happy then by all means you do you) .

Once you look at solid mid-tiers you begin realizing that the differences between those and the perceived top may not necessarily warrant all the BS that comes with it. As others have said not all top programs foster a malignant work environment(in fact many have awesome quality of life) but I guess what I’m trying to say is that you only get one shot at residency— might as well find the best for yourself not what Doximity is telling you is the best.
 
LutGholein said:
I think the longer I take a look at this the more I’m on board with putting quality of life above name— what’s the use of name without being happy to come there everyday (unless prestige makes you happy then by all means you do you) .

Once you look at solid mid-tiers you begin realizing that the differences between those and the perceived top may not necessarily warrant all the BS that comes with it. As others have said not all top programs foster a malignant work environment(in fact many have awesome quality of life) but I guess what I’m trying to say is that you only get one shot at residency— might as well find the best for yourself not what Doximity is telling you is the best.
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Again depend on your goal and specialty. If you want to become a chair one day or a faculty position at any place you want and do top notched research, then that is when top program is necessary especially in a surgical subspecialty. Try to look up faculties at any of top programs then you will see.
 
frenchyn said:
Again depend on your goal and specialty. If you want to become a chair one day or a faculty position at any place you want and do top notched research, then that is when top program is necessary especially in a surgical subspecialty. Try to look up faculties at any of top programs then you will see.
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Yeah, but 99% of people are just trying to eff off into private practice
 
I’ve been asking interviewers where they see most of their graduates ending up. I interviewed recently at a top, name brand program, and their response was a list of uber academic positions, PDs, and Pharma/government positions. They also mentioned writing op-ed pieces for various news agencies. Felt really cool in the moment, but I don’t see myself for sure going in that direction and will now subsequently rank them lower than a couple of regional programs that offer more balanced job prospects (private and academic). It’s super easy to get caught up in the name of a program without taking into account the career it’s setting you up for and whether that’s truly your goal.
 
frenchyn said:
Again depend on your goal and specialty. If you want to become a chair one day or a faculty position at any place you want and do top notched research, then that is when top program is necessary especially in a surgical subspecialty. Try to look up faculties at any of top programs then you will see.
Click to expand...
Just like how there are a number of reasons to not rank based on prestige, there are reasons why someone would choose the highest ranked program they can.

But only so many people can, or even want to, be a department chair at a major academic institution.
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Just like how there are a number of reasons to not rank based on prestige, there are reasons why someone would choose the highest ranked program they can.

But only so many people can, or even want to, be a department chair at a major academic institution.
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Not sure what is the point of this convo lol...it all depends on person...🤣
 
AnatomyGrey12 said:
Just like how there are a number of reasons to not rank based on prestige, there are reasons why someone would choose the highest ranked program they can.

But only so many people can, or even want to, be a department chair at a major academic institution.
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I know but if you look at the PDs and chairs of some of these top name programs, some of them went to community programs for their general surgery training. If you want to be successful in that way, it's up to YOU to push yourself and make the connections you need!!!
I personally choose happiness after making a GIANT BOO-BOO in the med school I picked. only 4 months left though so 😏
 
Espressso said:
Just admit it dude, you're shooting for that major academic dept chair, aren't you 😉
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Idk if I want to be chair but I want to keep my options open...plus coming from ****ty med school, I learn not to make same mistake...the resources and opportunities make a big difference
 
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iamarosepetal said:
I know but if you look at the PDs and chairs of some of these top name programs, some of them went to community programs for their general surgery training. If you want to be successful in that way, it's up to YOU to push yourself and make the connections you need!!!
I personally choose happiness after making a GIANT BOO-BOO in the med school I picked. only 4 months left though so 😏
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There are always exceptions...but in general top programs hire there own breed just like they match their own lol...
 
Anyone think it's a possibility that if we still haven't been vaccinated come match day, we can reach out to our prospective programs and get vaccinated through them before july 1st (if you're relatively local of course, not advocating flying across the country for the vaccine)?
 
most everyone having virtual graduations? and will we be able to travel / enjoy life in May/June (go away virus!)?
 
iamarosepetal said:
we were told to expect virtual graduation. someone threw out the dumb idea of having a drive by grad. NO THANKS
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Don't have a car... Watch me ride by on my bicycle and have my gown get caught in my bike chain as I'm about to get my degree. Would be a fitting end to the med school career lol.
 
theonlytycrane said:
most everyone having virtual graduations? and will we be able to travel / enjoy life in May/June (go away virus!)?
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As of now our school is preparing for an in person graduation, not sure if that’ll be all of us spaced out throughout the day or what, but told us an official decision will come in mid March. REALLY hoping for something in person🤞🏼
 
iamarosepetal said:
we were told to expect virtual graduation. someone threw out the dumb idea of having a drive by grad. NO THANKS
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Who is going to attend these virtual events? I’m not going to attend a virtual graduation or match day. It’s purpose is defeated by being virtual. I suspect that it’s going to take some time before we have in person events again, and I don’t think that the vaccine alone will bring them back. There is so much stigma and fear attached to covid that people will continue to wear masks and social distance even if cases go down.

All for vaccinating and protecting the vulnerable (mostly the older folks) but a clear endpoint for social distancing and mask wearing is lacking. There is a media circus surrounding it that only emphasizes the number of new cases, which is a terrible statistic since we are testing the HELL out of everyone. I suppose it would be less impressive and intimidating to the general public if they stated the actual case fatality rate.

A family member had the sniffles for 12 hours the other day......BOOM! Covid test. There is no clinical judgment with how we’re even testing for it. The media will be a huge determining factor for when people resume normal life, not medical professionals.
 
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