COCA Proposed Accreditation Changes

[hallowmann]

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...oposed-revisions-to-coca-standards-5-2015.pdf

What do you guys think of this? Nothing too huge, some basic stuff that needed to be changed among other random things.

Some of the things that might be of interest and have recently come up on this forum include:

1) Chief Academic Officer now is required to have board certification (AOA or ABMS) at the time of appointment.

2) COMs need to have confidential resources for health care for OMS3s and OMS4s

3) COM faculty and staff must be aware of FERPA, HIPAA, & Title IX requirements

4) Changes to 98% placement "recommendation". Apparently, it was only a recommendation before not a clear "requirement". Now instead of a 98% average placement for COM grads over 3 years, its an annual requirement for 95% minimum placement of all graduates of a COM seeking GME.

5) New COM Requirements: (Surprised this wasn't in place before)
-Required faculty for the COM must be hired at the time of provisional accreditation
-First and second year curriculum must be developed at the time of provisional accreditation
-Clinical affiliation agreements "sufficient to meet the needs of the curriculum and the students" must be signed at the time of provisional accreditation
-A site visit must be done 6-8 months prior to school opening to insure requirements are being met

6) Requirement for new COMs, branches, satellites, etc. that are affiliated with outside entities to have contracts relating to the relationship (e.g. BCOM w/ NMSU, etc.)

So yeah, some stuff that is necessary, but nothing earth shattering. Thoughts?

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[AlteredScale]

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...oposed-revisions-to-coca-standards-5-2015.pdf

What do you guys think of this? Nothing too huge, some basic stuff that needed to be changed among other random things.

Some of the things that might be of interest and have recently come up on this forum include:

1) Chief Academic Officer now is required to have board certification (AOA or ABMS) at the time of appointment.

2) COMs need to have confidential resources for health care for OMS3s and OMS4s

3) COM faculty and staff must be aware of FERPA, HIPAA, & Title IX requirements

4) Changes to 98% placement "recommendation". Apparently, it was only a recommendation before not a clear "requirement". Now instead of a 98% average placement for COM grads over 3 years, its an annual requirement for 95% minimum placement of all graduates of a COM seeking GME.

5) New COM Requirements: (Surprised this wasn't in place before)
-Required faculty for the COM must be hired at the time of provisional accreditation
-First and second year curriculum must be developed at the time of provisional accreditation
-Clinical affiliation agreements "sufficient to meet the needs of the curriculum and the students" must be signed at the time of provisional accreditation
-A site visit must be done 6-8 months prior to school opening to insure requirements are being met

6) Requirement for new COMs, branches, satellites, etc. that are affiliated with outside entities to have contracts relating to the relationship (e.g. BCOM w/ NMSU, etc.)

So yeah, some stuff that is necessary, but nothing earth shattering. Thoughts?

A bit disappointed there's no new requirement for minimal scholarly activity, but this is definitely a step in the right direction.

 

[hallowmann]

A bit disappointed there's no new requirement for minimal scholarly activity, but this is definitely a step in the right direction.

Yeah, I agree. Research and clinical curriculum stuff would be nice, but the new COM requirements are a step in the right direction. At very least, hopefully it will require new COMs to have things in order before students step foot on campus.

Its ridiculous to think COMs didn't set up their OMS1 & 2 curriculum before students come to campus...

 

[hossle12]

The 95% placement rate requirement is definitely needed. Does the LCME have a similar type of requirement for allopathic schools?

 

[NurWollen]

Sounds like good moves all around. I don't think it will slow the rate of new schools opening, but hopefully it will force them to have their act together sooner, rather than playing it by ear as students arrive.

 

[goldenroc]

Great! Definitely a step in the right direction, maybe this means that more DO schools will sponsor OPTIs in order to develope more residency spots to fill their students too? I was also hoping for a tuition cap or something, I know that most DO schools operate at a much higher cost due to no state funding/NIH grants, but it doesn't help push the agenda of producing primary care physicians.

 

[kenjixshadow]

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[hallowmann]

Yeah, I agree with everyone else. Good stuff, but not huge improvements.

The 95% placement rate requirement is definitely needed. Does the LCME have a similar type of requirement for allopathic schools?

I couldn't find one last time I checked, but it might exist.

Cap it at 50k (even less would be better), there's no reason why students need to pay over 50k tuition for 3rd and 4th year.

@hallowmann

Do you know what does this sufficient mean? Like if internal medicine rotation is all outpatient, that is not sufficient. If RN or DNP are the main receptors, that is not sufficient.

Tuition cap will never happen. Its something as students we can dream of, but it won't benefit anyone except for us, so...

I have no idea what "sufficient" means, but I doubt it makes any specific statements about the quality or structure of the rotations. That's really something I'd like to see happen, but it hasn't happened yet. This is probably more a statement about quantity rather than quality. I really think its just saying that schools need to have clinical affiliations that will support rotations for all of its students for 3rd and 4th year.

 

[FutureDO2016]

Why 95% and not 98 or 100%? I don't think it's fair to go through 4 years of medical school, pass everything and pay close to $150,000-$200,000 in tuition and then not have a residency program...a D.O. degree without residency is worthless no?

 

[acapnial]

Why 95% and not 98 or 100%? I don't think it's fair to go through 4 years of medical school, pass everything and pay close to $150,000-$200,000 in tuition and then not have a residency program...a D.O. degree without residency is worthless no?

If one student can't get placed in a residency, it's probably the because the student is terrible. If 20 students can't place, it's probably because the school is terrible.

I don't think it would be fair to put a whole school on probation because 1 person messes up. KCOM had at least 1 person not place over the past few years (https://www.atsu.edu/kcom/prospective_students/postgraduate_placement.html). Does that make them unfit to be a medical school?

 

[hallowmann]

Why 95% and not 98 or 100%? I don't think it's fair to go through 4 years of medical school, pass everything and pay close to $150,000-$200,000 in tuition and then not have a residency program...a D.O. degree without residency is worthless no?

100% is unrealistic. 98% would be nice, but would probably result in 30-50% of schools being put on probation within the year. I agree with what acapnial said. 1 person in a class might think its worth it to only apply to Ortho with a 420 COMLEX, and if they don't get it, wait until next year, but 10 in a class wouldn't.

Also, you could still do research among other random things if you don't get GME/a license.

 

[ERK123]

100% is unrealistic. 98% would be nice, but would probably result in 30-50% of schools being put on probation within the year. I agree with what acapnial said. 1 person in a class might think its worth it to only apply to Ortho with a 420 COMLEX, and if they don't get it, wait until next year, but 10 in a class wouldn't.

Also, you could still do research among other random things if you don't get GME/a license.

I mean according to AACOM, DO students had a 99.41% placement rate in GME this year. I am not sure if these numbers are fudged in some way, but it appears a 98% requirement would be realistic.

 

[FutureDO2016]

Yes, overall the 99.41% is very good for the profession...I just hope that holds in the coming years with expanding classes and brand new schools...they will be increasing programs and new slots will develop...I just don't know if the school growth will match the residency development?

 

[hallowmann]

Yes, overall the 99.41% is very good for the profession...I just hope that holds in the coming years with expanding classes and brand new schools...they will be increasing programs and new slots will develop...I just don't know if the school growth will match the residency development?

Good news is that in 2016, the only new schools graduating compared to 2015 will be 2 Texas MD schools. Come 2017 though, there will be 500-600 new DO graduates. As far as long-term, we're talking an increase of 1500-2000 US medical graduates in the next 4-5 yrs alone.

 

[ERK123]

Yes, overall the 99.41% is very good for the profession...I just hope that holds in the coming years with expanding classes and brand new schools...they will be increasing programs and new slots will develop...I just don't know if the school growth will match the residency development?

Is there any source that provides info n year to year class size increases not specific schools?

 

[FutureDO2016]

Most schools list the class expansions or new school class sizes on their websites or the AACOM website...I know my school expanded by 50 students my year and I know 2 others expanded my year too...so we will be having close 100-200 more DO graduates compared to this year. I have heard 2017 will be a BIG surge with MU-COM, LU-COM and one other DO school producing 500-600 more students like you said as well as the big MD-DO merger set to start between now and 2020 with many people thinking 2017 or 2018 there will be 1 match day?

 

[NurWollen]

Most schools list the class expansions or new school class sizes on their websites or the AACOM website...I know my school expanded by 50 students my year and I know 2 others expanded my year too...so we will be having close 100-200 more DO graduates compared to this year. I have heard 2017 will be a BIG surge with MU-COM, LU-COM and one other DO school producing 500-600 more students like you said as well as the big MD-DO merger set to start between now and 2020 with many people thinking 2017 or 2018 there will be 1 match day?

How much do you think that 500-600 more students is going to affect things? Is there any precedent for a jump that big?

Most schools list the class expansions or new school class sizes on their websites or the AACOM website...I know my school expanded by 50 students my year and I know 2 others expanded my year too...so we will be having close 100-200 more DO graduates compared to this year. I have heard 2017 will be a BIG surge with MU-COM, LU-COM and one other DO school producing 500-600 more students like you said as well as the big MD-DO merger set to start between now and 2020 with many people thinking 2017 or 2018 there will be 1 match day?

The new schools graduating their first classes in 2017 are Marian, ACOM, and Campbell.

 

[burritowithgreensauce]

dear coca. you are a joke. you exist to profit the DO leadership.
fact: the DO degree only exists to profit those in charge. OMM is used as "the distinguishing factor".
proof: go to OMED. everyone from leadership will be wasted. on your dime.

drops mic.

side note: the merger was turned down the 1st time around NOT to protect the interest of students. It was turned down bc pissy program directors weren't willing to vie for their jobs post-merger.

 

[hallowmann]

How much do you think that 500-600 more students is going to affect things? Is there any precedent for a jump that big?

The new schools graduating their first classes in 2017 are Marian, ACOM, and Campbell.

Yeah, it has happened 2 or 3 times in the past decade. Usually by the time the new grads show up there are sufficient new AOA residencies to absorb the 40-50% that end up going that way.

Our year will be a bit different though. New programs that are formed after June 30th of this year will not be able to transition to ACGME accreditation the same way current AOA programs can. They'll have to apply just like newly proposed ACGME programs. My guess is that that will slow the expansion of AOA programs during the transition.

Also, we'll be matching in the middle of the transition where some programs will be ACGME accredited and some won't, so who knows how that will affect things. Any 3 year AOA residencies also won't be a risk to apply to for us, but 2018-2019 will have to decide if it's worth it to risk going to a program that might shut down.

Honestly it's too early to tell what will happen our year and beyond. No point worrying about it right now.

 

[AlteredScale]

Yeah, it has happened 2 or 3 times in the past decade. Usually by the time the new grads show up there are sufficient new AOA residencies to absorb the 40-50% that end up going that way.

Our year will be a bit different though. New programs that are formed after June 30th of this year will not be able to transition to ACGME accreditation the same way current AOA programs can. They'll have to apply just like newly proposed ACGME programs. My guess is that that will slow the expansion of AOA programs during the transition.

Also, we'll be matching in the middle of the transition where some programs will be ACGME accredited and some won't, so who knows how that will affect things. Any 3 year AOA residencies also won't be a risk to apply to for us, but 2018-2019 will have to decide if it's worth it to risk going to a program that might shut down.

Honestly it's too early to tell what will happen our year and beyond. No point worrying about it right now.

Has anything been brought about from ACGME regarding AOA-to-ACGME accreditation? I guess specifically if they will have to modify guidelines to adjust for the AOA programs.

 

[GlowInTheDark]

95% minimum placement isn't hard to achieve with the creation of 2,000 FM/IM residencies in the boonies where you see 5 patients a day. DOs treat the whole country!

*raise glass* to the merger!

 

[burritowithgreensauce]

95% minimum placement isn't hard to achieve with the creation of 2,000 FM/IM residencies in the boonies where you see 5 patients a day. DOs treat the whole country!

*raise glass* to the merger!

**slaps glass out of hand**

i just saved you from drinking the kool-aid. You're welcome.

 

[CrocodilePancake]

Woah. I am in no way defending the AOA, but that was pretty harsh

dear coca. you are a joke. you exist to profit the DO leadership.
fact: the DO degree only exists to profit those in charge. OMM is used as "the distinguishing factor".
proof: go to OMED. everyone from leadership will be wasted. on your dime.

drops mic.

side note: the merger was turned down the 1st time around NOT to protect the interest of students. It was turned down bc pissy program directors weren't willing to vie for their jobs post-merger.

 

[Mass Effect]

Tuition cap will never happen. Its something as students we can dream of, but it won't benefit anyone except for us, so

Actually, the less loans we take out will benefit the feds. They're the ones who will have to do something about it. The cost of education, in general, is outrageous in this country.

 

[ERK123]

Actually, the less loans we take out will benefit the feds. They're the ones who will have to do something about it. The cost of education, in general, is outrageous in this country.

I think this is something only the government would be able to regulate. I would love if an accreditation board would regulate tuition, but I do not see that one every happening.

 

[Mass Effect]

I think this is something only the government would be able to regulate. I would love if an accreditation board would regulate tuition, but I do not see that one every happening.

That's exactly what I said.