Coming to terms with Being Middle Class

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Twiggidy said:
It's easy from the outside looking in to just tell someone to pick up and move. Yes, everything involves some leap of faith, but these things are much more difficult if you have spouses (especially picky ones), family, etc. I also love how everyone outside of CA seems to be a million dollar general anesthesiologist that takes 3 months off a year and also happens to be saving all their money and traveling the world like Rick Steves. I'm sure some of you are but there are many more factors involved than what's being presented here.

I think every non-tech exec/VC/pro-athlete/A-B list actor has this conversation with themselves at some point and starts to put that Powerpoint presentation together to their spouse selling rural NC (I have nothing against NC) but it's just not as easy as calling the movers as some of you make it. And let's be real, there are social factors as well no matter how Kum-Bye-Yah we claim our country is today. I in particular move to certain parts of this country and try to be a million dollar anesthesiologist, the numbers may not work out for various reasons, despite my patting myself on the back and thinking I'm pretty good at this job. It's just sad that certain comforts that living in certain areas provide comes at a price.
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every area has its price, some prices are not financial - like culture and schools.. usually inversely proportional to hourly salary in the area

OP Try going to Nebraska and making 750K with everything being dirt cheap and tell me your middle class!
Its quite the difference from an area like NYC or LA/SF making 450k and not having much savings after expenses each month

And now everyone from Nebraska chimes in about how their area has great culture and schools, but some of us know better!
 
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Hoya11 said:
every area has its price, some prices are not financial - like culture and schools.. usually inversely proportional to hourly salary in the area

OP Try going to Nebraska and making 750K with everything being dirt cheap and tell me your middle class!
Its quite the difference from an area like NYC or LA/SF making 450k and not having much savings after expenses each month

And now everyone from Nebraska chimes in about how their area has great culture and schools, but some of us know better!
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I remember when Omaha was supposed to be the next Austin
 
HemeOncHopeful19 said:
I agree BUT... if you have family that has already put down roots in San Francisco, LA etc. then congrats you're probably gonna do just fine when you inherit their house that has been appreciating under proposition 13. If you have a spouse who has to live in SF/LA/Seattle for work then congrats you are married to a tech worker and are gonna be doing just fine. If you DON'T have one of those two things then I think being geographically flexible (or I would argue a better phrase is geographically realistic) is something to consider.
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Prop 13 sounds a lot like Florida homestead plus save our homes limits on property taxes increase. Florida’s law is portable up to 500k assessment.

It saves me around $7000 a year in property taxes.

But to be honest. Trumps 2017 SALT 10k deduction . On state income tax deductions plus local taxes and property taxes even means more reasons to leave California. And cap on 750k mortgage interest deduction.

Looking back on the 2017 trump tax cuts.

It likely helped 80% of the true “middle” class with much Higher standard deductions. Those married making less than 250k and singles making less than 125k.

The trump tax cuts kills those w2 earners making between 500k-1 million in high state income like California

You need to make more than 1 million w2 to feel any real benefit of the trump tax cuts in California.

As self employed 1099 you can manipulate work around the 10k salt tax with ur California state incomes tax’s.

California SALT Workaround | Pass-Through Entities Tax Strategy

Learn about how the new California State and Local Tax rules for pass-through entities open the door to a new tax savings strategy - Los Angeles CPA Firm.
jlkrosenberger.com jlkrosenberger.com
 
aneftp said:
Prop 13 sounds a lot like Florida homestead plus save our homes limits on property taxes increase. Florida’s law is portable up to 500k assessment.

It saves me around $7000 a year in property taxes.

But to be honest. Trumps 2017 SALT 10k deduction . On state income tax deductions plus local taxes and property taxes even means more reasons to leave California. And cap on 750k mortgage interest deduction.

Looking back on the 2017 trump tax cuts.

It likely helped 80% of the true “middle” class with much Higher standard deductions. Those married making less than 250k and singles making less than 125k.

The trump tax cuts kills those w2 earners making between 500k-1 million in high state income like California

You need to make more than 1 million w2 to feel any real benefit of the trump tax cuts in California.

As self employed 1099 you can manipulate work around the 10k salt tax with ur California state incomes tax’s.

California SALT Workaround | Pass-Through Entities Tax Strategy

Learn about how the new California State and Local Tax rules for pass-through entities open the door to a new tax savings strategy - Los Angeles CPA Firm.
jlkrosenberger.com jlkrosenberger.com
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SALT limit expires after 2025.

We will see what the current administration does to it.
 
nimbus said:
No comment about her AI prediction but she is correct that $2mil is not enough.
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Suzi is one of the most conservative financial people. Depends how you look at 2 million at age 66 to retire.

1. You have Medicare
2. Your house should be paid off

So your “fixed expenses” should be less than $5000 a month max

Add in social security ($2000-3000 a month) (25-35k a year)

You can live comfortably off 110-120k a year off the 2 million saved at 4% with drawl (80k ish) plus the social security. And that doesn’t even account for stock market conditions.

We switched my 84 year old mom to voo/vti/vgt in late 2020 cause she was all cash and money market collecting zero interest. It doubled her investments to almost 3 million. But she’s clueless as well about money. Yes some luck. Yes we can take care of her if she gets in financial trouble. But I think people are too conservative when they retire.

My mom will die before she spends all that money.

My dad who was also a doctor barely had 100k in his retirement when he died 20 years ago at age 67 of cancer. He was just bad at money management
 
Hoya11 said:
every area has its price, some prices are not financial - like culture and schools.. usually inversely proportional to hourly salary in the area

OP Try going to Nebraska and making 750K with everything being dirt cheap and tell me your middle class!
Its quite the difference from an area like NYC or LA/SF making 450k and not having much savings after expenses each month

And now everyone from Nebraska chimes in about how their area has great culture and schools, but some of us know better!
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I see your point but there's a rich smorgasbord of happy mediums between Silicon Valley and rural Nebraska.

I don't mean to keep piling on the OP but lamenting your inability to afford a 1500sqft track house on a 10000sqft lot that's a few blocks away from that Apple spaceship headquarters building is silly. Move!

There are countless places near large cities in dozens of states that have low cost of living, nice people, high paying anesthesia gigs, and roads that provide reasonably quick access to sushi or botanical gardens or an NFL team or whatever cultural itch one needs to get scratched.

Even within California, virtually anywhere would be a cheaper and better place to live and work.
 
pgg said:
I see your point but there's a rich smorgasbord of happy mediums between Silicon Valley and rural Nebraska.

I don't mean to keep piling on the OP but lamenting your inability to afford a 1500sqft track house on a 10000sqft lot that's a few blocks away from that Apple spaceship headquarters building is silly. Move!

There are countless places near large cities in dozens of states that have low cost of living, nice people, high paying anesthesia gigs, and roads that provide reasonably quick access to sushi or botanical gardens or an NFL team or whatever cultural itch one needs to get scratched.

Even within California, virtually anywhere would be a cheaper and better place to live and work.
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agree a happy medium for sure is the way to go
 
You just saw the rosy part. Tech field is very brutal. In the past two years, CS graduates (even UC Berkeley) could not get offers. FAANG laid off thousands of employees. A significant percentage of tech jobs are moved out of the country, mainly to East Europe and India. Hire to fire, amazon focus (shxt list), fixed percentage of low performers, PIP..., very toxic.

Having said that, I agree that bay area is not good for physicians. If you can, move out.
 
Interesting chart showing some big tech revenues per employee.

www.statista.com

Revenue per employee of leading tech companies 2024 | Statista

In 2024, Apple generated the highest revenue per employee amongst the leading tech companies (by market capitalization) with **** million U.S.
www.statista.com www.statista.com


IMG_3308.jpeg




NVIDIA is $3.8mil/employee.


By comparison Onlyfans based out of the UK has only 42 employees and generates $31mil per employee but pays out 80% of its revenue to content creators who are not considered employees.

 
I am not sure doctors are in the middle class. We are probably in the upper class. Most of us make 300k+; that's being in the top 3% individual and 6% of household income.

I understand that might not be a lot money in places like LA, San Francisco, San Diego, NYC, Boston, DC etc...But that kind of income can afford one a nice living in most part of the country.

dqydj.com

Household Income Percentile Calculator, US - DQYDJ

Check your household income percentile vs. 2024's United States income distribution in this calculator. How does it rank: top 1%, median, or other?
dqydj.com dqydj.com
 
Splenda88 said:
I am not sure doctors are in the middle class. We are probably in the upper class. Most of us make 300k+; that's being in the top 3% individual and 6% of household income.

I understand that might not be a lot money in places like LA, San Francisco, San Diego, NYC, Boston, DC etc...But that kind of income can afford one a nice living in most part of the country.

dqydj.com

Household Income Percentile Calculator, US - DQYDJ

Check your household income percentile vs. 2024's United States income distribution in this calculator. How does it rank: top 1%, median, or other?
dqydj.com dqydj.com
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The thing is it IS a lot of money even in this posh cities. I can promise you the "average" person living in NYC or the Bay Area isn't making $300k and that's the salary well all thumb our noses to (rightfully so). I saw somewhere, although I didn't fact check it, that the top 3% in NYC is making over $400k. The issue with housing is, yes, some high earners locally in these markets out bid people, but and i feel this is especially true in NYC, SF, and LA, it's the foreign investors and large companies that squeeze even us top earners out of the market, especially if the place doesnt need work. These places just sit in peoples/companies portfolios because in these cities they're somewhat resistant to even a big recession. No matter how much people clown it on the internet, ALOT of people still either want or need to live in these cities.
 
At least we aren’t ski patrol. Our newest ortho trauma guy went to med school because he got bored with lifeguarding.

www.nytimes.com

Striking Patrollers Disrupt Season at Largest Ski Resort in U.S.

Long lift lines, limited terrain and frustration among skiers and snowboarders are downstream impacts of a wage dispute between union workers at Park City Mountain in Utah and its owner, Vail Resorts.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
 
Twiggidy said:
The thing is it IS a lot of money even in this posh cities. I can promise you the "average" person living in NYC or the Bay Area isn't making $300k and that's the salary well all thumb our noses to (rightfully so). I saw somewhere, although I didn't fact check it, that the top 3% in NYC is making over $400k. The issue with housing is, yes, some high earners locally in these markets out bid people, but and i feel this is especially true in NYC, SF, and LA, it's the foreign investors and large companies that squeeze even us top earners out of the market, especially if the place doesnt need work. These places just sit in peoples/companies portfolios because in these cities they're somewhat resistant to even a big recession. No matter how much people clown it on the internet, ALOT of people still either want or need to live in these cities.
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I live in a LCOL area. My mortgage on a cookie cutter home is ~$1700/month. I made 450k+ last year and I can understand why OP thinks we are middle class because I feel I belong in the middle class. However, when I compare myself to friends who are RNs, civil engineer etc... I feel like the stuff I do with my family (eg., multiple trips per year staying in $600-900/night hotel suites) might be difficult for them to do.
 
Splenda88 said:
I live in a LCOL area. My mortgage on a cookie cutter home is ~$1700/month. I made 450k+ last year and I can understand why OP thinks we are middle class because I feel I belong in the middle class. However, when I compare myself to friends who are RNs, civil engineer etc... I feel like the stuff I do with my family (eg., multiple trips per year staying in $600-900/night hotel suites) might be difficult for them to do.
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You're upper middle class. HENRY (High earner, not rich yet).

Your typical dual income family ( RN, engineer, etc) isn't spending the night in $600+ a night hotels during vacation and is more cost conscious.

Most physicians aren't thinking twice about going to a nice restaurant and dropping a few hundred dollars etc.

My kids are into this Japanese BBQ place that serves Wagyu etc. Bill typically comes out to a few hundred bucks. We go once a month since they like it so much.

Meanwhile, it was a miracle when my parents took us to Black Angus or Red Lobster.
 
anonperson said:
You're upper middle class. HENRY (High earner, not rich yet).

Your typical dual income family ( RN, engineer, etc) isn't spending the night in $600+ a night hotels during vacation and is more cost conscious.

Most physicians aren't thinking twice about going to a nice restaurant and dropping a few hundred dollars etc.

My kids are into this Japanese BBQ place that serves Wagyu etc. Bill typically comes out to a few hundred bucks. We go once a month since they like it so much.

Meanwhile, it was a miracle when my parents took us to Black Angus or Red Lobster.
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I might never be rich because as soon as I have 2.5 mil in my retirement accounts plus a paid off home, I will go part time (~ 8 days/wk).

I am very cost conscious when it comes to big ticket items (eg., cars, home etc...)
 
I would guess that the financial and tech folks that you envy, as a whole, invest in even less humility than you do.

Try being grateful and spend a week thanking/talking to every member of the janitorial staff and see if the current topic matters as much.
 
narcotics999 said:
You just saw the rosy part. Tech field is very brutal. In the past two years, CS graduates (even UC Berkeley) could not get offers. FAANG laid off thousands of employees. A significant percentage of tech jobs are moved out of the country, mainly to East Europe and India. Hire to fire, amazon focus (shxt list), fixed percentage of low performers, PIP..., very toxic.

Having said that, I agree that bay area is not good for physicians. If you can, move out.
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Most major urban areas are not good for physicians. Even in places with tons of land available (like Dallas) the market isn’t great unless you have great networking skills

My brother works like a dog in downtown LA. There is a price to pay for location unfortunately

But commute time does matter. If OP wants to stay within a 15-20 min commute of their desired location Than that’s the compromise they will have to live with.

But they are young. I and this my personal opinion. Because I have a huge networking ability and keep in contact with tons of people around the country. I am a very personal guy (as opposed to some of my political posts which I mainly try to troll ideology)

By my former residents from even 10 plus years ago. We talk. 2 are still in the Bay Area. They live. They aren’t rich. But they are happy. They work hard
But that’s where they want to be. Vs another resident who has his own pain practice in southeast (not Florida) He just turned 40. He’s in excess Of 5 million plus his pain practice and surgery center he has ownership stake in. But he hates his location. Typical frat guy. Wants to party. Go out. But he’s there cause of his physican wife so he’s stuck. Tons of compromise in life.
 
gasmd98 said:
Someone should merge this thread with the one dealing with offloading household tasks to others. Even a lowly salary of $450,000/yr is a lot of money. Now, if you want to live in NYC or the Bay Area and have a night nanny and a Porsche 911 I can see where you could have some cash flow issues. It all gets down to choices. The average person in the middle class ($40,000-$120,000) doesn’t have as many choices as we all do.
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Mo money. Mo ‘problems. Many docs in those areas are carrying 9-10k a month mortgages.

Your net income on a 500k w2 with high state income taxes is generally 22-23k a month.

You simply can’t be living with 40% of monthly revolving debt towards housing. That’s before the Porsche payments of $1500 a month.

Unfortunately a few docs I know have that lifestyle in the big cities.

But who knows. Life is short. People die early of various causes. So there is some balance.
 
BLADEMDA said:
1. I like what I do
2. My retirement is just around the corner where I have promised myself 1 week per month or less (1099 work around 40-45 hours per month)
3. I typically give money to my adult children who still need help
4. I like to buy stuff and deduct it saving 37%
5. 2/3 of my income is W-2 and 1/3 1099 (just extra money)

I am old school and I can assure you I will retire earlier than the generation before me did. As for my financial status, I am completely set for the remainder of my life (however long or short that may be). My faith in our LORD reassures me daily that this time on Earth is just a short stint for our souls (John 6:47)
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I like it. Most important thing is you still enjoy work. I know an 85 yo anesthesiologist who loves it and still works .8 FTE.
 
Splenda88 said:
That would be enough for me if I don't have a mortgage, but I would prefer to have 3 million so my old lady and I can travel first class.
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You can't do crap with $3 million.


Orman was asked whether $3 million, paired with a conservative 3% withdrawal rate, could fund a secure early retirement. Her response? A flat-out no. She didn't even hesitate to poke holes in the idea, calling $3 million "far from enough" for the unexpected costs life can throw at you.

 
I have two ibanker friends that both just lost their jobs. They were making probably close to 7 figures but now they are making nothing except what their portfolios make. Despite being wealthy they are looking for new opportunities and are pretty unhappy.
 
nimbus said:
At least we aren’t ski patrol. Our newest ortho trauma guy went to med school because he got bored with lifeguarding.

www.nytimes.com

Striking Patrollers Disrupt Season at Largest Ski Resort in U.S.

Long lift lines, limited terrain and frustration among skiers and snowboarders are downstream impacts of a wage dispute between union workers at Park City Mountain in Utah and its owner, Vail Resorts.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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Ski culture is weird.

Ski patrol and other mountain employees (lifts, cats, lodges) used to be heavily tilted toward people in the 18-25 range who live there and work for the resort for free skiing, and subsist in accepted poverty.

My brother worked at a resort in the Sierras for 5 or 6 years out of high school. Small rental shared with his dog and girlfriend (she also worked at the resort, the dog was a freeloader), heated with wood he cut from fallen trees on public land. Did construction in the summers building ski chalets and cabins. Rent food gas beer and something to smoke. If there was a bad winter with poor snow and the resort didn't open, he earned no money. Eventually he got tired of the cold winters and unpredictable job hours and bad snow, and he started spending winters in a camper on a beach in Baja. With his dog and girlfriend, of course.

Sometimes I think he made better life decisions than I did.

Anyway to get back to my point, I am surprised that ski patrol has become the kind of job that has a union. Time marches on, I guess.
 
BLADEMDA said:


The minimum for any full time Anesthesiologist on SDN to semi-retire is $5 million. This is 2025 after all.😉
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All depends on what you want to do in retirement.

Four international vacations per year with $900/night hotels, suites on the Queen Mary, new luxury car lease every two years, condo fees in the big city or horses in the country, country club membership? Sure.

National park pass and a bike? Probably don't need $20K/month to spend.
 
BLADEMDA said:
You can't do crap with $3 million.


Orman was asked whether $3 million, paired with a conservative 3% withdrawal rate, could fund a secure early retirement. Her response? A flat-out no. She didn't even hesitate to poke holes in the idea, calling $3 million "far from enough" for the unexpected costs life can throw at you.

Click to expand...
BLADEMDA said:
You can't do crap with $3 million.


Orman was asked whether $3 million, paired with a conservative 3% withdrawal rate, could fund a secure early retirement. Her response? A flat-out no. She didn't even hesitate to poke holes in the idea, calling $3 million "far from enough" for the unexpected costs life can throw at you.

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Shades of grey. My mother 60 yo 2.25M liquid 400k paid off house. Very comfortable. Yes shes not flying first class to Europe multiple times per year but basically does what she wants. 3.5-4% variable withdrawal strategy. No kids to support, no car payments, healthy overall.

Father in law worth a little more, little older. Takes RV all over. Small summer home in Florida. Winter up north. No debt. Happy as could be. Laughed when I told him orman said that.

Me? I need 5-7M but we live very different lifestyle. Probably like most here who think you can’t do crap with 3M. But recognize that’s a bubble we live in.
 
BLADEMDA said:
You can't do crap with $3 million.


Orman was asked whether $3 million, paired with a conservative 3% withdrawal rate, could fund a secure early retirement. Her response? A flat-out no. She didn't even hesitate to poke holes in the idea, calling $3 million "far from enough" for the unexpected costs life can throw at you.

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Her comments are ridiculous. 30k a month to take care of her mother? Gimme a break. Of course you won't have enough if you're spending 400k a year on your parents assisted living lol. Not many, less than 1% for sure, even spend that much on their family of four. What kind of explanation is that?

Blade you are the ultimate retirement fear mongerer.
 
Blade is talking about maintaining current lifestyle that most of us making 450k+ a year currently have.

Obviously there are differences in this for everyone, but I sure as hell didn’t work this hard to all of the sudden retire and live like a resident again, so my number will undoubtedly be close to his calculations.
 
I can related to the OP. The internet has dramatically changed the ability to 'scale' any online business. The amount of money a tech company, or even a small tech business, can make is wild. Being able to reach nearly anyone in the world with an app at virtually zero incremental cost to reach a new customer is huge. This combined with a decrease in wages in medicine, inflation adjusted, over the past 20 years makes a doctor living near a tech area feel middle class.
 
nimbus said:
At least we aren’t ski patrol. Our newest ortho trauma guy went to med school because he got bored with lifeguarding.

www.nytimes.com

Striking Patrollers Disrupt Season at Largest Ski Resort in U.S.

Long lift lines, limited terrain and frustration among skiers and snowboarders are downstream impacts of a wage dispute between union workers at Park City Mountain in Utah and its owner, Vail Resorts.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
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A small group of working class people striking for a $2/hr wage increase and inconveniencing thousands of wealthy people on vacation is pretty cool.
 
We're in a field that makes going part time very easy.

Any one of us can "retire" to a part time job working a 10 or 15 weeks per year, no weekends, no call, and reduce our retirement account drawdown by six figures, easily. Every $100K you're earning is a few $million less of retirement savings needed to maintain that lifestyle.
 
I have a lot of friends in tech. Many of them were laid off and had to scramble for jobs. Facebook, google, square, etc. One is at meta and total comp is less than what I make, majority is in equity. He does work from home and has plenty of perks. I do envy that. The big tech earners are niche engineers or sales people who have been there forever.

One thing to realize is they can’t crank to make more when they need it. Picking up extra call is a gift. You want more money - go get it.

I do have one friend who got very lucky. Joined Tesla working in a non engineering role in 2015paid mostly in equity. He’s gotta be worth 15 mill now.
 
OP, you have to have some perspective. $475k/yr or 5M in liquid net worth are not chump change. You are talking high 90th percentile in the vast part of this country. The difference between us and the real middle class i.e. those making less than $120k/yr in most locales, is that we at least have some financial breathing room if we play our cards right. Live on less than you make, have a “rainy day” fund and dollar cost average as much as possible into an index fund that tracks the S&P 500 and you will be alright. Hope that you or a loved one don’t develop some terrible chronic disease. Forget comparing yourself to someone making more money than you unless you are willing to work harder or take on more risk. Or win the lottery.
 
Shimmy8 said:
Blade is talking about maintaining current lifestyle that most of us making 450k+ a year currently have.

Obviously there are differences in this for everyone, but I sure as hell didn’t work this hard to all of the sudden retire and live like a resident again, so my number will undoubtedly be close to his calculations.
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150k a year after tax with no housing expenses is not living like a resident. That's 3.5 million.

My point was that orman is talking to the middle class that 3 isn't enough and she uses some baseless calculations to get there.
 
BLADEMDA said:
You can't do crap with $3 million.


Orman was asked whether $3 million, paired with a conservative 3% withdrawal rate, could fund a secure early retirement. Her response? A flat-out no. She didn't even hesitate to poke holes in the idea, calling $3 million "far from enough" for the unexpected costs life can throw at you.

Click to expand...
I wonder how many people in the US retire with 3 mil plus a paid off home.

I think I can make it work. I am a simple guy.
 
aneftp said:
Mo money. Mo ‘problems. Many docs in those areas are carrying 9-10k a month mortgages.

Your net income on a 500k w2 with high state income taxes is generally 22-23k a month.

You simply can’t be living with 40% of monthly revolving debt towards housing. That’s before the Porsche payments of $1500 a month.

Unfortunately a few docs I know have that lifestyle in the big cities.

But who knows. Life is short. People die early of various causes. So there is some balance.
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It's actually a lot worse than that. Maybe if interest rates were still in the 2's. Most people buy-ing 3+ million dollar homes in the Bay Area are putting 800,000+ down and taking out mortgages with PITI costing $25-30,000 a month. Even 40% of your monthly take home isn't doable in the Bay Area for first time home buyers. I'm closer to 35k a month after taxes and my wife is closer to 15k a month after taxes. So there is maybe more money here, but the costs are exorbitant.
 
gaspusher said:
It's actually a lot worse than that. Maybe if interest rates were still in the 2's. Most people buy-ing 3+ million dollar homes in the Bay Area are putting 800,000+ down and taking out mortgages with PITI costing $25-30,000 a month. Even 40% of your monthly take home isn't doable in the Bay Area for first time home buyers. I'm closer to 35k a month after taxes and my wife is closer to 15k a month after taxes. So there is maybe more money here, but the costs are exorbitant.
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No No No GIF
 
gaspusher said:
It's actually a lot worse than that. Maybe if interest rates were still in the 2's. Most people buy-ing 3+ million dollar homes in the Bay Area are putting 800,000+ down and taking out mortgages with PITI costing $25-30,000 a month. Even 40% of your monthly take home isn't doable in the Bay Area for first time home buyers. I'm closer to 35k a month after taxes and my wife is closer to 15k a month after taxes. So there is maybe more money here, but the costs are exorbitant.
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I wish u the best. I’m glad I just “retired” my California medical license after 20 years. Haven’t worked there since 2008. Multiple offers to go back to Los Angeles area (I’m not keen on the Bay Area to be honest).

I have tons of family in California. I can waive hi to them from zoom and visit once a year.
 
gaspusher said:
It's actually a lot worse than that. Maybe if interest rates were still in the 2's. Most people buy-ing 3+ million dollar homes in the Bay Area are putting 800,000+ down and taking out mortgages with PITI costing $25-30,000 a month. Even 40% of your monthly take home isn't doable in the Bay Area for first time home buyers. I'm closer to 35k a month after taxes and my wife is closer to 15k a month after taxes. So there is maybe more money here, but the costs are exorbitant.
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Sounds terrible. We put $200k down on an $800k house (which would probably be worth $4 million+ in LA/Bay Area). Our mortgage is $5k a month PITI. Paying off additional giant chunks, it’s our first house after training and will probably be paid off in full in about 2.5 years from closing on it. Oklahoma is a wonderful place.
 
Shimmy8 said:
Blade is talking about maintaining current lifestyle that most of us making 450k+ a year currently have.

Obviously there are differences in this for everyone, but I sure as hell didn’t work this hard to all of the sudden retire and live like a resident again, so my number will undoubtedly be close to his calculations.
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My plan is a BETTER Lifestyle when I fully retire. No money issues as I can buy anything I want to. My wife wants to be able to buy another home near one of the children so she can be closer to the grandkids. Again, we all have our goals and mine is $25K of cash flow per month after taxes.

They call retiring before age 65 the "go-go" years as spending actually increases until age 70 or so. Hence, you should budget more money (after tax) for those go-go years.

www.kiplinger.com

How to Plan for Retirement’s Go-Go, Slow-Go and No-Go Years

When retirement planning, it’s best to expect to do the big (and more expensive) stuff early on, when you’re healthier, then slow things down as you get older.
www.kiplinger.com www.kiplinger.com
 
Ideally, you'll retire with at least a $10 million net worth or greater to live the Fat FIRE lifestyle. Once you've got investable assets greater than $10 million, you should have no problem generating between $200,000 – $500,000 a year in passive investment income. Once you get about $500,000 in passive income, you’re earning almost a top 1% income, which is definitely Fat FIRE.

Fat FIRE Is The Best, But Hardest Way To Retire Early​

When you are no longer working for money, it's best to have as much money as possible. There's no point retiring early if you're going to constantly stress about whether you have enough money to pay the bills.

With Fat FIRE, you are truly free to live like a boss. As a Fat FIRE, you can do whatever you want, wherever you want in the world. And if you choose to earn supplemental income because it makes you happy, by all means do so. Pad your net worth even more so you can Fat FIRE even bigger.

Financial Samurai is focused on Fat FIRE. We want to help readers build great wealth through not only aggressive savings, but smart investing. However, that doesn’t mean you can’t reach Lean FIRE, Batista FIRE, and Regular FIRE along the way. Just remember to follow the rules of FIRE and not try and trick or cheat your way to financial independence. If you do, you're just hurting yourself.

To provide for a Fat FIRE lifestyle in SF, we've estimated needing at least $285,000 in passive to semi-passive investment income. However, due to inflation, I'm shooting to consistently generate $350,000 in passive income.
 
Arch Guillotti said:
Blade. Why do you have to drag religion into this?
Click to expand...
I meant no offense against anyone's faith/religion. But my Faith is important to me and re-assures me that my check-out date isn't the end but rather the beginning of a new journey. This world view changes how you think about retirement and the number of years you may have left. Again, I didn't mean to offend anyone else.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Ideally, you'll retire with at least a $10 million net worth or greater to live the Fat FIRE lifestyle. Once you've got investable assets greater than $10 million, you should have no problem generating between $200,000 – $500,000 a year in passive investment income. Once you get about $500,000 in passive income, you’re earning almost a top 1% income, which is definitely Fat FIRE.

Fat FIRE Is The Best, But Hardest Way To Retire Early​

When you are no longer working for money, it's best to have as much money as possible. There's no point retiring early if you're going to constantly stress about whether you have enough money to pay the bills.

With Fat FIRE, you are truly free to live like a boss. As a Fat FIRE, you can do whatever you want, wherever you want in the world. And if you choose to earn supplemental income because it makes you happy, by all means do so. Pad your net worth even more so you can Fat FIRE even bigger.

Financial Samurai is focused on Fat FIRE. We want to help readers build great wealth through not only aggressive savings, but smart investing. However, that doesn’t mean you can’t reach Lean FIRE, Batista FIRE, and Regular FIRE along the way. Just remember to follow the rules of FIRE and not try and trick or cheat your way to financial independence. If you do, you're just hurting yourself.

To provide for a Fat FIRE lifestyle in SF, we've estimated needing at least $285,000 in passive to semi-passive investment income. However, due to inflation, I'm shooting to consistently generate $350,000 in passive income.
Click to expand...
Housing and Health are the two most important things in retirement.

There are quite of old Floridans now who can’t afford their homes whether it’s increased property taxes , hoa fees, or condo assessments for pool and roof repairs or structural repairs of older high rise condos near or at the beach.

One of my not too old former colleagues retired at age 57 but sold her beach condo and downtown home to live in Georgia cause it was cheaper.

I looked at her condo and shocked it was $800/month.

Now I know $1000/month for condos/apt up north or out west downtown is nothing. (My sister pays $1100/month in hoa condo fees for her luxury downtown condo) in LA
 
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