Are there any kind souls that wish to speak about their experience at the COMLEX-PE? I have no idea what the hell is wrong with this test. I guess I wasn't osteopathic enough for them and so I got a failing grade. I feel that I did everything by the book, literally. I memorized the First Aid: USMLE 2 CS just because I was terrified about this exam and yet I still failed. This test is so bogus but they have you by the ba***. If you don't take it you can't graduate. And spare you if you try to speak with them. I spoke with this lady at the center and she lost her mind and called me unprofessional and rude and hang the phone up. So the moral, be as osteopathic as you can on every patient get a structural exam and some OMT and don't you dare question the ever wise NBOME cause they will put a letter of reprimand on your record.😡
COMLEX PE - Failed!!!!!!
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I completely disagree with this assessment. It is first and foremost a how-do-you-interview-a-patient exam. Yes, there is some OMM, but even on the PE that isn't the primary point. Somewhere around here I have a list I posted of helpful points for the PE. You will get dinged big-time if you don't fully address all of the personal interaction expectations on this exam.
As far as OMM goes, yes, you need to do something on the folks that are the obvious OMM patients, but one of the keys with OMM on the PE is to do something legit (given the patient's presentation) and to really do it. Don't do some kind of OMM in a half-assed manner (really do it) and if you're going to do something with multiple steps (ie: Spencer) be sure you do all of the steps. They will ding you if you're clearly just going through the motions & doing something ineffective or if you botch the method you chose. Also keep in mind that you don't have a ton of time. I did some basic muscle energy, articulation, OA decompression...nothing fancy, difficult, or time consuming.
I hope that helps a bit. 🙂
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Sorry DrMom, I very much appreciate the feedback, but I was admittedly being half sarcastic with my previous comment at the time. 🙁 I'm just nervous about taking a somewhat subjective board examination is all.
I am taking it soon for the first time and I am halfway thru the NMS Step II CS book you (SDN) sent me for the publishers week.
I'm sure it will go well but still, that isn't going to stop me from preparing in advance for this exam. Just don't want anything to keep me from graduating when I've passed everything else on my first try. 
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I just didn't want you or anyone else thinking OMM was the end all and be all of this exam. 🙂 You can't ignore OMM, but it isn't everything.
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Regarding the PE, for confusion/memory loss complaints, do students have to perform a full MMSE? And for psychiatric cases...what physical exam areas does anyone suggest to do besides neuro? I have been reading 1st Aid CS, and was just hoping to clarify these points. Thanks 🙂
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People expect to be treated fairly. It's not known what's expected of us and how we can succeed at this exam. I appreciate Dr. Mom's input, but she's not a representitive of the nbome. By not divulging what is expected of the students taking the exam and allowing endless speculation/rumors causes much much anxiety. We've worked long and hard to get here only to have this mysterious road block placed in front of us and no directions on how to safely get through or around it. It's very frustrating and yet another example of how I yearn for the day the old gaurd of osteopathic medicine retires and rides off into the sunset taking with them their stubborn dogma and ideas of what osteopathic medicine "should be." Osteopathic medicine seems to be evolving and and the people who are supposed to be leading the profession seem to want blunt any changes. I've got the exam soon and really don't know what to expect. Word of mouth 3rd person stories is not a proper way to prepare for this test.
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Unfortunately, that is all that you have at your disposal since the nbome is too anal to give any more detailed feedback on their own. I wish there was a set curricular standard for this test...but there is none, at least none that has been disclosed to us through official channels, nor will there ever be.
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K here is my situation maybe someone out there can help me or shed some light on the subject. I failed the PE the first time. The NBOME was completely unable to help in knowing why I failed. My school has informed me that they will dismiss me if I don't pass this test the second time. Can anyone let me know what their schools policy is on this test. Hard to study for the test when you have no idea what to do differently. I think it's appalling that a test that is SUBJECTIVE as this will decide if I graduate and possibly become a doctor. I have never felt so abused by the system and totally out of control of my future. 200k dollars and 8 years of my life are at stake as well as my family's future. I think the treatment is horrendous by both NBOME and my school. I guess there's no need to keep us around after they have all of our money. I'm hoping that I can transfer to another school if this retake doesn't go well. Any advice would be appreciated.
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I totally understand your frustration with this exam. I too have to retake it in two weeks and I have a lot on the line here also. I've already bought a house in the place of my residency and if I fail I'll have to start residency 2-3 months late, not to mention lose another 1K. I sincerely hope they do away with this exam for future classes. Its terrible that this is the ONLY thing standing between me and graduation right now.
HOWEVER, on a more positive note, here's how you need to look at this now. You failed it. There was obviously something you did wrong. So, figure out what you did wrong (or in other words, what they didn't like about you) and change it. For me, it was my "data gathering" skills they didn't like. Meaning, I did a poor job on my History and Physical exam. My OMM was good and I my humanistic domain was okay. So, this time around I am going to take the most thorough history and physical exam that time will allow. I'm going to ask every question I can possibly think of. I've also formulated more of an organized approach to asking questions by using mnemonics for certain complaints. I'm not going to hesitate doing neuro exams and special diagnostic exams.
Basically, I'm going to work my absolute hardest to make sure that there is no way in hell they can find a reason to take a single point away from me!
You have to go in to this with a fighting attitude or you're just going to go making the same mistakes as before. Don't let this pointless BS exam stop you from finishing your goals when you are so close to the end.
Sorry for sounding like a motivational speaker, but I really think its the only way to get through this without going insane! Best of luck to you.
Also, I've found First Aid for the CS to be incredibly helpful in working through example cases and seeing what I miss. You can actually hand the book to a friend and have them pretend to be the patient and read the answers to the questions you ask. Then they can check off what you got and show you what you missed. Also you can practice writing notes and coming up with a good differential and plan. I didn't use this the first time around and I'm confident I would have passed had I gone through all these cases the first time.
HOWEVER, on a more positive note, here's how you need to look at this now. You failed it. There was obviously something you did wrong. So, figure out what you did wrong (or in other words, what they didn't like about you) and change it. For me, it was my "data gathering" skills they didn't like. Meaning, I did a poor job on my History and Physical exam. My OMM was good and I my humanistic domain was okay. So, this time around I am going to take the most thorough history and physical exam that time will allow. I'm going to ask every question I can possibly think of. I've also formulated more of an organized approach to asking questions by using mnemonics for certain complaints. I'm not going to hesitate doing neuro exams and special diagnostic exams.
Basically, I'm going to work my absolute hardest to make sure that there is no way in hell they can find a reason to take a single point away from me!
You have to go in to this with a fighting attitude or you're just going to go making the same mistakes as before. Don't let this pointless BS exam stop you from finishing your goals when you are so close to the end.
Sorry for sounding like a motivational speaker, but I really think its the only way to get through this without going insane! Best of luck to you.
Also, I've found First Aid for the CS to be incredibly helpful in working through example cases and seeing what I miss. You can actually hand the book to a friend and have them pretend to be the patient and read the answers to the questions you ask. Then they can check off what you got and show you what you missed. Also you can practice writing notes and coming up with a good differential and plan. I didn't use this the first time around and I'm confident I would have passed had I gone through all these cases the first time.
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Hi Jack Sparrow and Doctormaybe08,
First of all, good luck on your coming exams. Doc08, I go to Des Moines University, and I believe they give you three attempts to take the PE. I just gave the exam in December and passed, but I know of some classmates who failed, and I really think it is completely random. Please do not let it get you down so much, I think Jack Sparrow has the right attitude. Go through the First Aid CS with a friend, focus on the areas you did poorly on the last time, and be confident that you will pass the second time around.
GOOD LUCK!!!!
First of all, good luck on your coming exams. Doc08, I go to Des Moines University, and I believe they give you three attempts to take the PE. I just gave the exam in December and passed, but I know of some classmates who failed, and I really think it is completely random. Please do not let it get you down so much, I think Jack Sparrow has the right attitude. Go through the First Aid CS with a friend, focus on the areas you did poorly on the last time, and be confident that you will pass the second time around.
GOOD LUCK!!!!
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Yeah that's the attitude I have. First aid CS does help. It's hard to keep this attitude when I failed over the humanistic domain. After talking to a preceptor at my school he has told me that almost all people that failed the PE it was usually due to the humanistic domain. This to me seems to prove how much of a random thing failing this test is. This is the most subjective part of the test. On a positive note, the test will be done shortly and hopefully behind me for good. Thanks for the advice guys.
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I just took COMLEX PE and to be quite honest, it was not bad at all. Of course they threaten you over the head with pointy sticks to not divulge details of the exam..so I cannot give specifics. However, with that said, I felt that I was well prepared for the exam. WVSOM gave us two mock OSCE exams to prepare for it and it was right on the money. Yes I used OMT but you'll always know when to use it appropriately. The best preparation you could possibly do for this exam is an outpatient primary care rotation near your test date.
If I failed this exam yesterday, it would be due to my documentation (SOAP Notes). My handwriting just sucks.
If I failed this exam yesterday, it would be due to my documentation (SOAP Notes). My handwriting just sucks.
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Well, I am one of the folks who failed this ummm-hmmm some years ago (3 to be exact), and I am now finally retaking it. Why the delaY? Finances (and a little procrastination). And that it was scheduled 7 MONTHS out to register once I scraped up the cash.
In studying for this exam this time around, I realized a few of my mistakes, and I am really really angry that I was not prepared to take this test. I did well on my school's mock patient exams THAT I TOOK EVERY YEAR from teh first year on, and I did well on my patient interactions per my evaluations with preceptors....
So what did I miss? (I failed the humanistic portion)
1. To shake hands with each patient.
2. The damn draping.
3. To call everyone Ms. or Mr. so-and-so.
4. To summarize some history with the patient.
5. To summarize at the end my plan. (This was my biggest downfall. I had NO IDEA I HAD TO DO THIS.)
6. To be very nebulous when asked "Do I have some horrible disease?"
I also was so paranoid about getting the notes done that I cut short time with each patient (we were done, btw), so I didn't think that would hurt. Now I know differently. I will at least end every encounter with "Did I answer all of your questions? Is there anything else you'd like to tell me?" My notes and biomechanics were fine.
My OMM was scored highest (I don't remember the term used, I think they may be using new terms these days), and I DID NOT do OMM or an osteopathic exam on everyone. In fact, I really kind of winged my way through some of it because I knew that no one on a camera would be able to verify my diagnosis or treatment efficacy.
In any case, I hope the schools are preparing people better now-a-days. I just was so angry to realize I missed on total crap, when I know I could have passed initially had I just been prepared adequately. (The books that were out were utter crap, since the test was so new.) At least now the First Aid for CS is better and useful.
Pray for me everyone... pray pray pray to your respective Gods....
In studying for this exam this time around, I realized a few of my mistakes, and I am really really angry that I was not prepared to take this test. I did well on my school's mock patient exams THAT I TOOK EVERY YEAR from teh first year on, and I did well on my patient interactions per my evaluations with preceptors....
So what did I miss? (I failed the humanistic portion)
1. To shake hands with each patient.
2. The damn draping.
3. To call everyone Ms. or Mr. so-and-so.
4. To summarize some history with the patient.
5. To summarize at the end my plan. (This was my biggest downfall. I had NO IDEA I HAD TO DO THIS.)
6. To be very nebulous when asked "Do I have some horrible disease?"
I also was so paranoid about getting the notes done that I cut short time with each patient (we were done, btw), so I didn't think that would hurt. Now I know differently. I will at least end every encounter with "Did I answer all of your questions? Is there anything else you'd like to tell me?" My notes and biomechanics were fine.
My OMM was scored highest (I don't remember the term used, I think they may be using new terms these days), and I DID NOT do OMM or an osteopathic exam on everyone. In fact, I really kind of winged my way through some of it because I knew that no one on a camera would be able to verify my diagnosis or treatment efficacy.
In any case, I hope the schools are preparing people better now-a-days. I just was so angry to realize I missed on total crap, when I know I could have passed initially had I just been prepared adequately. (The books that were out were utter crap, since the test was so new.) At least now the First Aid for CS is better and useful.
Pray for me everyone... pray pray pray to your respective Gods....
do u need to pass the PE exam before you start residency??? Is this required for all residents? I thought it was merely to be allowed to take step 3 and get your license. I'm taking the PE in 2 weeks for the first time. I should have scheduled the darned thing alot sooner!!
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Yes, you are correct, you should have scheduled it a lot sooner. It definitely is a requirement for all D.O. students to pass it before graduation. It really sucks that no one at your school (or mine for that matter) told you that you should schedule it really early due to the chance of failing and not graduating on time.
At this point the most important thing for you is to STUDY VERY HARD for it and make sure that you pass it. You will get your scores back in time if you take it in 2 weeks because the NBOME has expedited their grading process so that it now takes only 6-8 weeks to get scores back as opposed to 10-12.
Good luck and study hard.
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i just found out yesterday that i failed the pe exam.... I took in in mid January.. now i am at a lost.....earlier this morning I called the NBOME since the next available date to take the exam is not till DEC... I was put on hold and then told that they can't help me.... I have already moved to an apartmet for a 1 year lease for my residency, I am all set and now this road block in front of me. I will not be able to graduate if I can't retake this within the time frame for our graduation. I was able to check again see if anything opened up as I am sure there are others in the same predicament as me that called them this morning. June dates started appearing. I secured a date but it is still too late. I called my dean this morning and asked for help. He was very accomodating and promised me that he will find a solution. He informed me that he will contact someone from the NBOME about the matter... I just don't get how the NBOMe can't accomodate retakers especially when their careers are at stake. I have passed every single exam i have taken in my life including boards... and now I fail this.... i just don't know what to do anymore....
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Man, I'm so sorry for you. What do you think it was that made you fail?
And let us know what you and your Dean come up with. Maybe you'll find a solution that could help others in your same situation.
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i haven't gotten the mail result yet so I don't really know what I did poorly on.... As far as solutions I will post them on Monday......For those people who are in the same predicament as me right now....Call 610-825-6551 and try to get Krystal Wilson's voicemail box. She is the one in charge of rescheduling students on a first come first serve basis....She is on vacation till next week so I just left my info and situation and hopefully she would be of help. This is the temporary solution right now. THis is all we can do for now....
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i will let you know which domain i failed.......as far as I know from people who failed it, they usually did poorly on the humanistic domain i.e. physician patient relationship/communication.... I did everything to the T....from washing my hands to draping to asking permission to do a maneuver or listening to heart lungs and abdomen.....i reviewed plans with the patient, was polite and addressed them by mr or mrs.......i just don't know yet what i did poorly on till I get the mail results....the nbome website result just says P or F
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I totally understand how you feel right now. This exact same thing happened to me back in December (right before Christmas...what a present that was!)
Anyway, I kept checking the website daily for cancellations and I got super lucky and grabbed a retake date for March 4th. I just re-took the exam about 2 weeks ago now and all I can say is I hope to God I passed it this time. I failed the first one because of the "data gathering" section. This apparently includes the history and physical. So, to study for it I went through First Aid like crazy until I knew all the correct questions to ask and all the appropriate exam maneuvers to do.
When I retook it I felt like a did a more thorough job then the last time, but I'm still not at ease because there were a couple of cases I felt like I struggled with.
I still feel this exam is absolute horse s*** The fact that they allow non-medically trained actors to grade the majority of the exam is a complete disgrace to all of us who have worked so hard to make it this far. (the standardized patients grade EVERYTHING except the soap note and the OMM!!!!) So, if you fail because of the "humanistic domain" its because some actor decided you weren't good enough. These people I'm sure have no idea what a good doctor should or should not be like and the fact that they are the ones deciding whether or not we graduate from medical school is outrageous! Something needs to be done to get rid of this exam entirely. I have yet to meet anyone that feels this exam is a good test of our abilities as future physicians.
Anyway, Check the NBOME website multiple times a day. Dates do pop up at random and are generally gone within minutes. Be sure to have a credit card ready with enough money on it to cover the cost of another test because you won't get immediately refunded for the next one for 3-4 days after canceling it. Best of luck, you will get through this, you're not alone, there are ALOT of other students going through this right now. Keep in mind that this year they also raised the standards for a passing score, so thats why so many more people are failing.
Anyway, I kept checking the website daily for cancellations and I got super lucky and grabbed a retake date for March 4th. I just re-took the exam about 2 weeks ago now and all I can say is I hope to God I passed it this time. I failed the first one because of the "data gathering" section. This apparently includes the history and physical. So, to study for it I went through First Aid like crazy until I knew all the correct questions to ask and all the appropriate exam maneuvers to do.
When I retook it I felt like a did a more thorough job then the last time, but I'm still not at ease because there were a couple of cases I felt like I struggled with.
I still feel this exam is absolute horse s*** The fact that they allow non-medically trained actors to grade the majority of the exam is a complete disgrace to all of us who have worked so hard to make it this far. (the standardized patients grade EVERYTHING except the soap note and the OMM!!!!) So, if you fail because of the "humanistic domain" its because some actor decided you weren't good enough. These people I'm sure have no idea what a good doctor should or should not be like and the fact that they are the ones deciding whether or not we graduate from medical school is outrageous! Something needs to be done to get rid of this exam entirely. I have yet to meet anyone that feels this exam is a good test of our abilities as future physicians.
Anyway, Check the NBOME website multiple times a day. Dates do pop up at random and are generally gone within minutes. Be sure to have a credit card ready with enough money on it to cover the cost of another test because you won't get immediately refunded for the next one for 3-4 days after canceling it. Best of luck, you will get through this, you're not alone, there are ALOT of other students going through this right now. Keep in mind that this year they also raised the standards for a passing score, so thats why so many more people are failing.
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thanks for the moral support jacksparrow82, I am now glued online constantly checking every time i get a chance.....hopefully something will open....I just need an April date....any date in april would suffice....so hopefully they open up extra days for retakers. but you never know with the NBOME..
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Jeez,
I really feel for you guys who have to contend with this "Pass this PE or don't graduate" crap. The crappiest thing is that there are simple solutions these scumbags at the NBOME can implement.
1. Open another testing center- at $1050 a head times 24 heads per day for approximately 25 potential testing days per month x 12 months, these tweakers are raking in approximately 7.5 MILLION dollars per year. I'm sure there's enough money at this point to fund another place so they can rake in another 7.5 MILLION per year. Preferably something more west than BFE Pennsylvania
2. Open up their entire calendar for enrollment. This whole call back and check the website business is counterproductive and annoys not only the staff who field these calls, but also the students who have to beg, hope and pray that they get their ideal testing date.
3. Give priority scheduling to those who failed and have to retake it. Since passing this is now a prerequisite for graduation, it only makes sense that these individuals be given the utmost urgency in obtaining a test date, preferably 10-12 weeks prior to their graduation date. Of course if March is the first time that they're taking it with full knowledge of prior dates, then they deserve to have their graduation delayed.
4. Restrict 3rd years from registering. Honestly, registering while you're still completing your third year is an a$$ move to the rest of those who need those dates open. Taking it earlier than others proves nothing more to anyone other than you being a gunner twit.
5. Slash the turnaround time on results to 6 weeks just like the CE. Honestly, what in the hell are they doing with our results for the next 3 months? It's not that complicated of a grading process! Half of it is already done by those incompetent actors whom the NBOME decided it be appropriate for them to decide your fates in medicine.
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I am taking the PE for the first time next week.
Feeling particularly nervous after reading this thread and b/c the date is so close to graduation.
Unfortunately, this was my only available test date due to my schedule...
Does anyone have advice not previously mentioned?
More light to shed on this seemingly elusive hurdle?
Feeling particularly nervous after reading this thread and b/c the date is so close to graduation.
Unfortunately, this was my only available test date due to my schedule...
Does anyone have advice not previously mentioned?
More light to shed on this seemingly elusive hurdle?
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good luck, it is a lottery, practice your handwriting and don't write outside the boxes
Found out that out of the 12, 20% of the encounters are reviewed. Basically you could screw up one and fail. Oh, did I mention that it would be statistically impossible to extrapolate a grade from using human subjects and show any type of validity?
Its amazing what happens when you have a burned out med student that is about to be placed two years behind because of a stupid test that is going to get him landed in Iraq for 15 months all because the NBOME has a minimum turnaround time of 6 months (with special circumstances) and 11 months regularly. AND YES I UNDERSTAND IT IS A RUN ON SENTENCE .....
Found out that out of the 12, 20% of the encounters are reviewed. Basically you could screw up one and fail. Oh, did I mention that it would be statistically impossible to extrapolate a grade from using human subjects and show any type of validity?
Its amazing what happens when you have a burned out med student that is about to be placed two years behind because of a stupid test that is going to get him landed in Iraq for 15 months all because the NBOME has a minimum turnaround time of 6 months (with special circumstances) and 11 months regularly. AND YES I UNDERSTAND IT IS A RUN ON SENTENCE .....
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I dont know about the COMLEX, but for Step 2 CS there's no freaking way you have to time to do an MMSE on a dizziness patient. I would only ask orientation questions and forget the rest. An MMSE takes a good 7 mins by itself and you wont have time to do other critical exam maneuvers.
Here's how I would prioritize a physical exam for dizziness:
1) Gait
2) Hearing test (finger rub, Rinne, Weber)
3) Auscultate heart
4) Auscultate/palpate carotids
5) Orthostatics
6) Romberg
7) Dix-Hallpike
Do this extra stuff only if you have time:
7) Coordination: finger-nose, heel-shin, alternating fingers
8) Orientation (place, time, person)
9) Cranial nerve exam
10) Reflexes
11) Motor exam
12) Sensory exam
13) Rest of the MMSE exam
You'll be lucky if you can get thru the first 7 items on that exam list in a 15 minute encouter.
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good luck, it is a lottery, practice your handwriting and don't write outside the boxes
Found out that out of the 12, 20% of the encounters are reviewed. Basically you could screw up one and fail. Oh, did I mention that it would be statistically impossible to extrapolate a grade from using human subjects and show any type of validity?
Its amazing what happens when you have a burned out med student that is about to be placed two years behind because of a stupid test that is going to get him landed in Iraq for 15 months all because the NBOME has a minimum turnaround time of 6 months (with special circumstances) and 11 months regularly. AND YES I UNDERSTAND IT IS A RUN ON SENTENCE .....
Where did you get the information regarding the number of reviewed encounters? Was there a particular context?
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NBOME and a school official, but I have no people skills to get this information....lol
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Well I passed this time around! weee!
After looking at my post from 2-28, I must admit that I still didn't spend the full amount of time with every patient. I spent it with maybe 2 or 3 of them. But I did take the time after the exam to sit down and explain what I I thought they had and what I was going to do. In addition to the rehashing of the history, either during the physical or right before it, I think these were the most important things I did differently this time. Good luck to everyone.
After looking at my post from 2-28, I must admit that I still didn't spend the full amount of time with every patient. I spent it with maybe 2 or 3 of them. But I did take the time after the exam to sit down and explain what I I thought they had and what I was going to do. In addition to the rehashing of the history, either during the physical or right before it, I think these were the most important things I did differently this time. Good luck to everyone.
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Ppphhheeewww! I passed but I was so obsessed about every single little thing I missed. I even forgot to assess SD and mention OMM on one pt. I'm sssoooo relieved since I took it so late. Good luck to all!
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I just found out that i passed the exam yesterday 😎. Overall the exam is pretty useless. I feel that if you have completed and passed all your core rotations and maybe a few family practice rotations you should have no trouble passing. My strategy was simple. Practice, practice and practice. I practiced with a friend and my wife. I bought the USMLE CS book and had my wife and friend act as the patient. I timed myself and had them mark as i went along. Then I would go over the things I had missed. I did about 10-12 cases total. Honestly I think this is the only thing that helped me pass. Its very very easy to come up with the differentials. The SPs pretty much throw the diagnosis at your face.
To be efficient I wrote my SOAP note while taking the history. This probably saved me 3-4 minutes in the note writing part. I just filled out the CC, PMH, PSH, FH, SH and ROS. I filled out the HPI,assessment, plan and physical findings in the time alloted for note writing. I felt like I always had extra time in the end. I probably read through my notes in the end everytime. As for the SP's. Treat them like you would treat royalty. There satisfaction will go a long way in helping you pass. Some hints that can help
1) Knock 2) Ask if you can enter 3) Introduce yourself 4) Shake hands 5) tell them why you are there 6) Try not to interupt. If you have to, excuse yourself. 7) If they cough ask if they want water. If they are sniffing get a tissue. If they hurt be sympathetic. If they bring up a dead family member tell them you are sorry to hear that. 8) Summarize the HPI with them while washing your hands or during the physical.9) Just keep talking during the physical. Explain to the patient what you are doing and why. While checking asculatating the heart and lung think about other areas you could check 10) if there are in pain help them move around. 11) DRAPE them properly 12) Asculate through the grown and make sure you see where you are asculatating. 13) Summarize your findings. 14) Explain you differantials and your plan 15) ask them if they have any questions or concers. (Almost all the patients have a question. Its best to be vague with your answer. I usually said. It is too early to tell. I will have to run some tests and then I can give you a more complete answer etc). 16) Thank them for being cooperative. 17) shake there hands and leave the room.
I believe if you follow the above rules and write a decent note you will pass. As for OMT. I always did OMT on the SP who asked. Soft tissue OMT is more than enough. I might have used muscle energy on 2-3 patients. NO HVLA offcourse. You can try FPR counterstrain. Basically anything goes. The patients dont care. if you are doing something wrong, as in hurting them, they will tell you. Always recheck you finding and ask the SP. With me they usually told me there had improvement in there symptom.
Last advice would be to to try to enjoy the day. Consider it just another day at a clinic. Be prepared to tackle any complaint that can come to a FP clinic. Even psych complaints. Be prepared to send a patient to the ER if you think the case is urgent etc.
I hope this helps someone. 3 boards exams down 1 to go. good luck 🙂
To be efficient I wrote my SOAP note while taking the history. This probably saved me 3-4 minutes in the note writing part. I just filled out the CC, PMH, PSH, FH, SH and ROS. I filled out the HPI,assessment, plan and physical findings in the time alloted for note writing. I felt like I always had extra time in the end. I probably read through my notes in the end everytime. As for the SP's. Treat them like you would treat royalty. There satisfaction will go a long way in helping you pass. Some hints that can help
1) Knock 2) Ask if you can enter 3) Introduce yourself 4) Shake hands 5) tell them why you are there 6) Try not to interupt. If you have to, excuse yourself. 7) If they cough ask if they want water. If they are sniffing get a tissue. If they hurt be sympathetic. If they bring up a dead family member tell them you are sorry to hear that. 8) Summarize the HPI with them while washing your hands or during the physical.9) Just keep talking during the physical. Explain to the patient what you are doing and why. While checking asculatating the heart and lung think about other areas you could check 10) if there are in pain help them move around. 11) DRAPE them properly 12) Asculate through the grown and make sure you see where you are asculatating. 13) Summarize your findings. 14) Explain you differantials and your plan 15) ask them if they have any questions or concers. (Almost all the patients have a question. Its best to be vague with your answer. I usually said. It is too early to tell. I will have to run some tests and then I can give you a more complete answer etc). 16) Thank them for being cooperative. 17) shake there hands and leave the room.
I believe if you follow the above rules and write a decent note you will pass. As for OMT. I always did OMT on the SP who asked. Soft tissue OMT is more than enough. I might have used muscle energy on 2-3 patients. NO HVLA offcourse. You can try FPR counterstrain. Basically anything goes. The patients dont care. if you are doing something wrong, as in hurting them, they will tell you. Always recheck you finding and ask the SP. With me they usually told me there had improvement in there symptom.
Last advice would be to to try to enjoy the day. Consider it just another day at a clinic. Be prepared to tackle any complaint that can come to a FP clinic. Even psych complaints. Be prepared to send a patient to the ER if you think the case is urgent etc.
I hope this helps someone. 3 boards exams down 1 to go. good luck 🙂
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Phew! Just an update but I just got my score back and it's a PASS! woo hoo!
Best of luck to the rest of you test takers. Only one more to board exam to blow thru...so far I am 3 of 3!
-Richie
Best of luck to the rest of you test takers. Only one more to board exam to blow thru...so far I am 3 of 3!
-Richie
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Found out that out of the 12, 20% of the encounters are reviewed. Basically you could screw up one and fail. .....
Are you referring to the humanistic portion? I thought all the patients fill out a score sheet, and this is averaged. By 'reviewed' do you mean that physicians look at our video tapes?
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I didn't really find out from an official source. I went to my FMG friends (who are taking the USMLE, I realize) and my MD friends and asked what they did (don't have many DO friends here), as well as read some USMLE Step II review books and this was what they all reiterated was important to do. It must be, as I passed this time, and did not last time, and what I changed were the things listed.
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I have said this many many times before:
Review the video on the website. Write your notes EXACTLY like they lay it out. PAY CLOSE attention to the video.... it is HIGHLY representative of the patients you may have.
Review the video on the website.
you only need to do OMM on the patients that need it. You should have been able to tell which ones those were.
Review the video on the website.
Be warm and friendly.
Listen only on skin.
RELAX.
Oh - and if I didn't mention it before, review the video on the website.
Review the video on the website. Write your notes EXACTLY like they lay it out. PAY CLOSE attention to the video.... it is HIGHLY representative of the patients you may have.
Review the video on the website.
you only need to do OMM on the patients that need it. You should have been able to tell which ones those were.
Review the video on the website.
Be warm and friendly.
Listen only on skin.
RELAX.
Oh - and if I didn't mention it before, review the video on the website.
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And I did shyrem, I watched it so many times I recognized some of the same actors during my actual PE
I thought I did
If I was any sweeter I would be detrimental to my diabetic patients, no lie!!
I did all that, I'm disheartened, dunno what I did wrong :crying:
can't possibly thing what to do different other than do an OMM assess on each patient
Washed my hands, draped them all but one, was warm, listened, what gives??!! :crying:
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For the low, low price of 1100 bucks...not including the travel expenses.
Color me unhappy.
Won't even go into my thoughts on the value of 3rd and what I presume is to come during 4th year.
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I've been running my PE day through my head, over and over again trying to find what I did wrong. I even talked to some classmates and the only thing I did different than those that already passed was:
I washed my hands as soon as I walked into the room, then shook hands, but then DID NOT WASH MY HANDS BEFORE THE EXAMINATION...
My roommate feels they may be getting me on a technicality with this, does anyone else think this could be it? 😕
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^^ Ok I failed and washed my hands before the PE. I also draped, asked pt if they had questions, went over any diagnositic testing I wanted to perform.
Shyrem I really don't think you understand...there is NO logical reason why people are failing!!! I failed the humanistic portion. Tell me how ***king subjective that is.
Shyrem I really don't think you understand...there is NO logical reason why people are failing!!! I failed the humanistic portion. Tell me how ***king subjective that is.
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There must be a reason, you just may not be seeing it. However, I wasn't there watching your exam either, so I'm just guessing and giving advice which has served in good stead for myself and others.
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I've been running my PE day through my head, over and over again trying to find what I did wrong. I even talked to some classmates and the only thing I did different than those that already passed was:
I washed my hands as soon as I walked into the room, then shook hands, but then DID NOT WASH MY HANDS BEFORE THE EXAMINATION...
My roommate feels they may be getting me on a technicality with this, does anyone else think this could be it? 😕
I could see it being the handwashing issue. It's possible that they feel that your hands could get dirty again from shaking hands or writing down notes.
My way of doing it was to wait until right before the exam, then announcing I was going to wash my hands to make sure that the patient didn't overlook that I did it.
I do not think you were supposed to do an OMM exam on every single patient since I didn't do that and passed. I would save the OMM exam for the patients who have indications for OMM.
I can imagine this is devastating and confusing. I hope that things go more smoothly for you next time.
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I am sorry to hear you didnt fare well on the PE. Although I passed the PE, Ive come to a road block on the CE, so I can share your frustrations. For what its worth, here is my two cents:
I remember studying for this thing for 2 weeks, reading FA and then practicing the note, as my handwriting is terrible and I thought thats where I would fall short, if I were to fall short at all.
In studying, I focused on a few points FA highlights, and I continuously went over those points (see below) before every patient encounter.
Heres what I felt helped me:
1. Walk in, smile, and always make eye-contact
2. Always wash your hands, drape when appropriate, etc.
3. When taking the history, look for "props" that FA discusses-if the patient coughs, offer water and ask about the cough; if the patient seems to be in pain, comfort them and reassure them that all will be done to elucidate and relieve their pain.
4. When I could, or wherever appropriate, I always asked about screening exams-paps, mammo's, colonoscopies, etc. I also asked about smoking cessation, something like, "if youre thinking about quitting, we have info..or, when you do want to quit, I am here to help you"
5. Always, Always Always let the patient know the results of your PE findings. I always allowed 30sec at the end of the encounter to review the pt's complaint, the PE findings, and then the next step in terms of dx and tests that would be done.
6. I always ended each encounter with "Is there anything else I can help you with?"
I didnt have too many patients with OMM complaints, although I remember studying for that part by reviewing the basic techniques I might be able to use in the given amount of time.
I wish you all the best of luck,
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So this draping stuff. I know we don't really need to drape until we are about to perform the physical exam. However, are we expected to drape EVERYONE or only those to whom we expect to do an abdominal exam or some other thing that would require pulling up the bottom portion of the drape?
This is the only thing standing between me and graduation, and I would hate to never graduate because of something as stupid as the PE.
This is the only thing standing between me and graduation, and I would hate to never graduate because of something as stupid as the PE.
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I remember draping only those patients I was going to do an abdominal exam, or going to exam the legs (MSK complaint). I remember draping those patients with a cardiac complaint as well-not necessary, but at the time I wasnt sure and figured I couldnt go wrong. I would NOT however, drape every patient.
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http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6823316#post6823316
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=547136
Once they tell you to start you can stand outside the door for as long as you want looking at their vitals etc & forming a differential. I found that if I already had a list of Qs in my head it just goes that much smoother. (This time DOES come off your 14 minutes total). I would also take this time to transcribe the VSs onto the O part of my note since I forgot to do that if I waited till after I got done with the patient.
Make sure you only put that stuff in your SOAP note that you actually did. If you think of a test that you should have done or a Q you should have asked, after you have exited the room....too late. Just take the hit rather than put it down. Our Dean was told that most ppl who failed, did so for this reason.
Also make sure you start your re-cap the moment you hear the 2 minute warning. No use getting 90% on your SOAP writing & interview skills only to fail the humanistic portion. All you need is 1% over whatever their passing grade is (but you need that in EACH category)
Whenever you transition from asking Qs to performing exam or doing the recap, just say a little something that tells them what you're about to do.
Washing hands & draping patients is essential. Draping is always a Q...I just put the cloth over them (level with their ASISs) & then pulled the gown up. This way you are in no danger of sneaking a peek at their "delicates". When auscultating anything make sure the stethoscope is on the skin and NOT on the gown. Ask & then untie the gowns from the back to get all the lung zones, while from the front you can kind of sneak you hand over the top & get it done since I was not sure about asking females to untie from the front.
When doing your HPI, I would say something to the effect that even though you are writing stuff (hence looking down) you are still paying attention to them (Gotta get as many of those "Are you DO enough points")
In my physicals, I did everyone's heart, lungs & abdomen & then moved on to the specific complaint (Just what I was taught in my FP rotations) but ofcourse you don't want to do that at the risk of running out of time for the actual complaint related exam.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=547136
Once they tell you to start you can stand outside the door for as long as you want looking at their vitals etc & forming a differential. I found that if I already had a list of Qs in my head it just goes that much smoother. (This time DOES come off your 14 minutes total). I would also take this time to transcribe the VSs onto the O part of my note since I forgot to do that if I waited till after I got done with the patient.
Make sure you only put that stuff in your SOAP note that you actually did. If you think of a test that you should have done or a Q you should have asked, after you have exited the room....too late. Just take the hit rather than put it down. Our Dean was told that most ppl who failed, did so for this reason.
Also make sure you start your re-cap the moment you hear the 2 minute warning. No use getting 90% on your SOAP writing & interview skills only to fail the humanistic portion. All you need is 1% over whatever their passing grade is (but you need that in EACH category)
Whenever you transition from asking Qs to performing exam or doing the recap, just say a little something that tells them what you're about to do.
Washing hands & draping patients is essential. Draping is always a Q...I just put the cloth over them (level with their ASISs) & then pulled the gown up. This way you are in no danger of sneaking a peek at their "delicates". When auscultating anything make sure the stethoscope is on the skin and NOT on the gown. Ask & then untie the gowns from the back to get all the lung zones, while from the front you can kind of sneak you hand over the top & get it done since I was not sure about asking females to untie from the front.
When doing your HPI, I would say something to the effect that even though you are writing stuff (hence looking down) you are still paying attention to them (Gotta get as many of those "Are you DO enough points"
)In my physicals, I did everyone's heart, lungs & abdomen & then moved on to the specific complaint (Just what I was taught in my FP rotations) but ofcourse you don't want to do that at the risk of running out of time for the actual complaint related exam.
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Hi
I retook about a week after finding out I failed it the first time. Just got my results a week ago saying I passed.
Th ONLY thing I did different this time was I DID OMM ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM...except a lady that obviously had an acute abdomen and needed to be admitted ASAP.
My first results letter did say I was below the passing minimum in OMM. Hopefully this helps someone.
When in doubt OMM their brains out...
I retook about a week after finding out I failed it the first time. Just got my results a week ago saying I passed.
Th ONLY thing I did different this time was I DID OMM ON EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM...except a lady that obviously had an acute abdomen and needed to be admitted ASAP.
My first results letter did say I was below the passing minimum in OMM. Hopefully this helps someone.
When in doubt OMM their brains out...
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I wonder if you did some other things differently without realizing it, thanks to your additional preparatory practice. I love OMM at least as much as the next DO, but I doubt it is necessary to do OMM on every patient to pass the exam. Using it when it isn't indicated cuts into the time you need to do other relevant exam, counseling, and summarization/partnership formation. I heard through the grapevine (here, take some salt) that one student did OMM on every patient and failed.
I did very little OMM unless it seemed specifically indicated, and even then, I kept it simple for testing purposes. I passed, but left the test kicking myself for forgetting some (non-OMM-related) things I considered important.
In response to earlier posts, I washed my hands as soon as I got into the room so I would not forget. Some of my classmates did this, too, and they all passed. I draped every patient even though for some it truly seemed unnecessary. For patients who didn't really need it, I often made a comment about thin gowns and cold rooms when presenting the drape for their lap.