competitive specialty chances after failing a course, but after successful remediation

[darthtrauma32]

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Hello everyone,

Long time lurker, but I wanted some honest feedback about my situation. I looked through the threads for people with similar situations but wanted to get feedback for my personal situation.

I am a rising MS3 and go to a MD school in NJ with a P/F curriculum. The hour before our Women's Health exam, I had a family emergency. Despite seeking advice from peers and faculty, I took the exam. It was a combination of being overconfident, wanting to get over it (since it was before spring break), and thought I should be able to take an exam despite finding out that one of my family members is in the ICU. I didn't reach minimal competency for one of three sections of the exam by .16%. I did not fight to get it rounded because it was my fault due to my poor judgement. I am an average-above average student, however I aced every exam after having the fear of this happening again for whatever reason. I have not taken Step 1, I know thats very important. I am on top of it and doing well so far, but unsure when I am taking it due to COVID. My average Step 1 practice scores are around 230-240 with 60 days left before my scheduled (probably cancelled) exam date. I am really interested in neurosurgery, but I cannot say for sure that this is the field for me yet. Regardless, I want to make sure I did not close any doors for neurosurgery residencies. I gave myself a honest reflection of the exam I failed. I knew it was because of the family emergency, and not a flaw in my studying habits. I also ended up remediating with a 100%. I also have a decent amount of research experiences and still getting more. Do I still have a shot for neurosurgery?

I am aware that people have differing views on the importance of preclinical grades. I also have seen amazing and honest advice on here, and some advice to be far from constructive and toxic. I just want honest and constructive feedback on the mistake I made because it has been on my mind for months now. Thank you in advance!

 

[esob]

My 2 cents, which probably isn't worth much is that it will depend on your step score. It is highly competitive as we all know and thus PD's are usually looking for a reason to eliminate an application and a Pass after remediation is probably as solid a reason as any. That isn't saying that you should give up on your dream if you are adamant about it, but hopefully, the rest of your app will show that you have been gunning for neurosurgery since day one. If not, I would think about an alternative, especially if you end up on the lower end of your practice score range.

 

[darthtrauma32]

My 2 cents, which probably isn't worth much is that it will depend on your step score. It is highly competitive as we all know and thus PD's are usually looking for a reason to eliminate an application and a Pass after remediation is probably as solid a reason as any. That isn't saying that you should give up on your dream if you are adamant about it, but hopefully, the rest of your app will show that you have been gunning for neurosurgery since day one. If not, I would think about an alternative, especially if you end up on the lower end of your practice score range.

Thanks for your fast response. Yeah that is what I am worried about. I am doing the best I can to get a +250 especially since I have 60, potentially 110 days (deadline to take the exam has been extended and current date has a high chance of being cancelled) before my Step 1 exam. Besides grades, I have solid extracurriculars with one being president and regional director of a large national physician organization. I have 9 research experiences with two papers published. I just needed some reassurance, but what you said is the reality. Hoping what I have so far, and what I can add to my resume puts me over the top. Thank you again, much appreciated.

 

[bananafish94]

Nobody will care about an isolated failure in your preclinical years. It may indirectly affect you depending on how your school calculates class rank, AOA, etc. but in the long-term it shouldn't be a huge deal. If there was a pattern of repeated failures that would be a different story but this seems to be a one-off situation with an explanation. You're doing the right thing by keeping your eyes forward and focusing on Step 1! Good luck with everything!

 

[Oso]

If you remediated successfully then will it even show up anywhere in your residency app, given that everything is pass fail? Pretty sure I had to remediate an exam and an anatomy practical and once I remediated, they just showed up as 'Pass'. Agree about it really only mattering for class rank and AOA but that otherwise I doubt it would make any kind of real difference. Things that would matter, show up, and likely need explaining would be failing a step or clinical rotation or some kind of professionalism issue.

tldr: you'll be fine, good luck!

 

[raiderette]

Even though it is my intended specialty, I don't believe Ob/Gyn will hurt you, since it isn't your intended specialty.

 

[longhaul3]

Hello everyone,

Long time lurker, but I wanted some honest feedback about my situation. I looked through the threads for people with similar situations but wanted to get feedback for my personal situation.

I am a rising MS3 and go to a MD school in NJ with a P/F curriculum. The hour before our Women's Health exam, I had a family emergency. Despite seeking advice from peers and faculty, I took the exam. It was a combination of being overconfident, wanting to get over it (since it was before spring break), and thought I should be able to take an exam despite finding out that one of my family members is in the ICU. I didn't reach minimal competency for one of three sections of the exam by .16%. I did not fight to get it rounded because it was my fault due to my poor judgement. I am an average-above average student, however I aced every exam after having the fear of this happening again for whatever reason. I have not taken Step 1, I know thats very important. I am on top of it and doing well so far, but unsure when I am taking it due to COVID. My average Step 1 practice scores are around 230-240 with 60 days left before my scheduled (probably cancelled) exam date. I am really interested in neurosurgery, but I cannot say for sure that this is the field for me yet. Regardless, I want to make sure I did not close any doors for neurosurgery residencies. I gave myself a honest reflection of the exam I failed. I knew it was because of the family emergency, and not a flaw in my studying habits. I also ended up remediating with a 100%. I also have a decent amount of research experiences and still getting more. Do I still have a shot for neurosurgery?

I am aware that people have differing views on the importance of preclinical grades. I also have seen amazing and honest advice on here, and some advice to be far from constructive and toxic. I just want honest and constructive feedback on the mistake I made because it has been on my mind for months now. Thank you in advance!

This won't affect your chances for neurosurgery directly. As someone else pointed out, if this impacts your eligibility for AOA, that could hurt, but it's not that big of a deal. You need to do really well on Step 1 and pump out some research. Work hard and do well on your clinical rotations, and get to know the neurosurgeons at your school. You need people in your corner who will give you good advice.

 

[darthtrauma32]

If you remediated successfully then will it even show up anywhere in your residency app, given that everything is pass fail? Pretty sure I had to remediate an exam and an anatomy practical and once I remediated, they just showed up as 'Pass'. Agree about it really only mattering for class rank and AOA but that otherwise I doubt it would make any kind of real difference. Things that would matter, show up, and likely need explaining would be failing a step or clinical rotation or some kind of professionalism issue.

tldr: you'll be fine, good luck!

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. Unfortunately the transcript will report a remediated pass. AOA for our school accounts for preclinical years but a very small percentage compared to the other factors such as step 1, clerkship grades etc. I just hope program directors are willing to look over this possible red flag because it was genuinely due to external factors, but I certainly could have been more responsible and postponed the exam.

Looking forward, how would you recommend me to address this? I've heard mentioning it in the personal statement could be beneficial since PDs usually read the personal statements more than the other parts of the application. I am assuming it will be asked during interviews. Again, I just heard this advice. I am completely clueless about the application process as of now. I just want to give it my best shot if I decide to apply neurosurg and I realize at some point this is out of my hands.

 

[darthtrauma32]

Even though it is my intended specialty, I don't believe Ob/Gyn will hurt you, since it isn't your intended specialty.

It is not my intended specialty but I love and respect the field a lot. Thank you for your thoughts!

 

[darthtrauma32]

Nobody will care about an isolated failure in your preclinical years. It may indirectly affect you depending on how your school calculates class rank, AOA, etc. but in the long-term it shouldn't be a huge deal. If there was a pattern of repeated failures that would be a different story but this seems to be a one-off situation with an explanation. You're doing the right thing by keeping your eyes forward and focusing on Step 1! Good luck with everything!

Thank you for your comments. Yeah this has been my only failure and Ill make sure this is my only one if I were to find myself in a similar situation again. You're definitely right, I can only look forward. I just needed some reassurance and honesty. I am usually not anxious or worried, but I am starting to see myself not like many specialties and gravitating towards neurosurg, and wanted to make sure I have a good chance to match into it if it happens to be for me. Thank you again!

 

[darthtrauma32]

This won't affect your chances for neurosurgery directly. As someone else pointed out, if this impacts your eligibility for AOA, that could hurt, but it's not that big of a deal. You need to do really well on Step 1 and pump out some research. Work hard and do well on your clinical rotations, and get to know the neurosurgeons at your school. You need people in your corner who will give you good advice.

Thank you for your suggestion, I will definitely do this. Just haven't been able to reach out because of COVID so decided to ask here. I appreciate it a lot!

 

[Oso]

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. Unfortunately the transcript will report a remediated pass. AOA for our school accounts for preclinical years but a very small percentage compared to the other factors such as step 1, clerkship grades etc. I just hope program directors are willing to look over this possible red flag because it was genuinely due to external factors, but I certainly could have been more responsible and postponed the exam.

Looking forward, how would you recommend me to address this? I've heard mentioning it in the personal statement could be beneficial since PDs usually read the personal statements more than the other parts of the application. I am assuming it will be asked during interviews. Again, I just heard this advice. I am completely clueless about the application process as of now. I just want to give it my best shot if I decide to apply neurosurg and I realize at some point this is out of my hands.

Well, knowing nothing about the neurosurgery application process, I would still not mention this in your personal statement because it is such a small thing and I don’t think anyone will really care. The things I mentioned above are things you should mention in a PS.

Also, no point in worrying about this now. Study for step, work hard on rotations, etc and when the time comes around to start working on residency apps then ask your neurosurgery advisor, whom I doubt will tell you to bring it up.

Good luck and please don’t lose too much sleep over this.

 

[ciestar]

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my post. Unfortunately the transcript will report a remediated pass. AOA for our school accounts for preclinical years but a very small percentage compared to the other factors such as step 1, clerkship grades etc. I just hope program directors are willing to look over this possible red flag because it was genuinely due to external factors, but I certainly could have been more responsible and postponed the exam.

Looking forward, how would you recommend me to address this? I've heard mentioning it in the personal statement could be beneficial since PDs usually read the personal statements more than the other parts of the application. I am assuming it will be asked during interviews. Again, I just heard this advice. I am completely clueless about the application process as of now. I just want to give it my best shot if I decide to apply neurosurg and I realize at some point this is out of my hands.

This doesnt belong in your PS

 

[~Soñadora~]

How is this reflected on your transcript? I failed a shelf exam once but my transcript still said Pass and the only indication that I repeated the shelf was a very, very vague sentence about me completing the requirements after two rounds of assessments so I don't think it hurt me at all and mostly I think programs didn't even notice or care. It would've been very different if my transcript had said conditional pass or something else. I definitely never mentioned this anywhere as within my application as a whole it was entirely unimportant. I was only asked about it once during one interview and then I was like I failed the first time and I retook it, I learned my lesson and we moved on. It wasn't a big deal at all. With that said I did not apply neurosurg. If you want to make up for this step 1 is your best friend. Ace that and step 2 and you'll be in a much better position.

 

[darthtrauma32]

How is this reflected on your transcript? I failed a shelf exam once but my transcript still said Pass and the only indication that I repeated the shelf was a very, very vague sentence about me completing the requirements after two rounds of assessments so I don't think it hurt me at all and mostly I think programs didn't even notice or care. It would've been very different if my transcript had said conditional pass or something else. I definitely never mentioned this anywhere as within my application as a whole it was entirely unimportant. I was only asked about it once during one interview and then I was like I failed the first time and I retook it, I learned my lesson and we moved on. It wasn't a big deal at all. With that said I did not apply neurosurg. If you want to make up for this step 1 is your best friend. Ace that and step 2 and you'll be in a much better position.

First off, I really appreciate your thoughts and taking your time to reply to my post. Unfortunately, my transcript will reflect a remediated pass for this course. That is the goal, Ill do my best and go from there. It’s great to hear your story and the success you earned despite the shelves issue. Thanks for sharing your story, I hope I can do the same!

 

[longhaul3]

Looking forward, how would you recommend me to address this? I've heard mentioning it in the personal statement could be beneficial since PDs usually read the personal statements more than the other parts of the application. I am assuming it will be asked during interviews. Again, I just heard this advice. I am completely clueless about the application process as of now. I just want to give it my best shot if I decide to apply neurosurg and I realize at some point this is out of my hands.

Most programs couldn't care less about the personal statement—literally couldn't care less, as in they don't even read it. Probably the least important part of your application. Unless you are the literary heir to Nabokov, you want to make your personal statement as unremarkable as possible. When the time comes, you should do what your departmental advisors tell you to, but as a random stranger on the internet, I would not include this in a personal statement. You should be upfront with your department about it and make sure they give you an honest assessment of your chance of matching and a strategy for handing this issue if it comes up.

Thank you for your comments. Yeah this has been my only failure and Ill make sure this is my only one if I were to find myself in a similar situation again. You're definitely right, I can only look forward. I just needed some reassurance and honesty. I am usually not anxious or worried, but I am starting to see myself not like many specialties and gravitating towards neurosurg, and wanted to make sure I have a good chance to match into it if it happens to be for me. Thank you again!

Neurosurgery is awesome but is definitely not a specialty you should count on falling in love with. I hope you do, but also consider DR (especially neuroDR) because for a lot of people it scratches that same vague itch but with a much lower barrier to entry and lifestyle sacrifice.

 

[peachrings]

Agree, would not include in personal statement. Most personal statements do not move the needle, but a bad one can definitely hurt.

 

[Mass Effect]

Wait, you didn't fail a class, right? Just an exam? How would anyone even know about that?

 

[darthtrauma32]

Wait, you didn't fail a class, right? Just an exam? How would anyone even know about that?

We have three parts to our exams. A written which is usually a 100 questions from lectures, anatomy and a 30 question histology/pathology/embryology section. I did well on the anatomy and written exam, however during our two hour break between the written exam and histo/path/embryo exam is when I found out about my family’s emergency. I ended up getting a 59.xx% for that section which fell below the minimum competency we have for each exam section. This caused an automatic failure of the course. This exam was intended to be the easiest exam of our second year hence the averages were high, which I guess is why it was not rounded. Regardless, I have a bad time taking care of myself, and convinced myself I was okay—I wasn’t. I won’t do this again.

 

[darthtrauma32]

Most programs couldn't care less about the personal statement—literally couldn't care less, as in they don't even read it. Probably the least important part of your application. Unless you are the literary heir to Nabokov, you want to make your personal statement as unremarkable as possible. When the time comes, you should do what your departmental advisors tell you to, but as a random stranger on the internet, I would not include this in a personal statement. You should be upfront with your department about it and make sure they give you an honest assessment of your chance of matching and a strategy for handing this issue if it comes up.


Neurosurgery is awesome but is definitely not a specialty you should count on falling in love with. I hope you do, but also consider DR (especially neuroDR) because for a lot of people it scratches that same vague itch but with a much lower barrier to entry and lifestyle sacrifice.

You aren’t wrong about neurosurgery being tough and filled with sacrifices. However, I want to make sure I love what I do. I came to like neurosurgery after excluding many other fields, and still have some of them on my radar. Again, I don’t want to declare I want to be a neurosurgeon rather to ensure I have not closed that door if I happen to decide on it next year. For now, I know I don’t really like clinic, love acute care, and surgery > medicine. I really look into neuroDR more for sure though. I really appreciate your thoughts and advice. Thank you!

 

[sovereign0]

Matched neurosurgery this year. A preclinical fail will hurt a little but alone won't bar you from matching. However, in combination with other deficits (step 1, research, LORs are the big three) you may have difficulty. I know several people with exceptional applications without a single red flag who didn't match this year. The academic arms race is going to continue and you'll have to pull yourself along to keep up.

 

[DistractedFocus24]

Did you end up applying neurosurgery? Have you heard anything further about the effect of a preclinical fail on competitive specialty matching?

We have three parts to our exams. A written which is usually a 100 questions from lectures, anatomy and a 30 question histology/pathology/embryology section. I did well on the anatomy and written exam, however during our two hour break between the written exam and histo/path/embryo exam is when I found out about my family’s emergency. I ended up getting a 59.xx% for that section which fell below the minimum competency we have for each exam section. This caused an automatic failure of the course. This exam was intended to be the easiest exam of our second year hence the averages were high, which I guess is why it was not rounded. Regardless, I have a bad time taking care of myself, and convinced myself I was okay—I wasn’t. I won’t do this again.

Did you end up applying for neurosurgery? Have you heard anything further about the effect of a preclinical fail on competitive specialty matching?