Complete in early Oct

[heartman1998]

I just completed my secondaries. I'm aiming for only T20 schools. I know it's very late in the cycle, but I figured it wouldn't change the outcome much. My rationale is that if they interview me now, I have as good a chance as someone who interviewed earlier in the cycle. OTOH, if I don't even get an interview, it's unlikely that I would have received an acceptance from a hypothetical earlier application and interview. Thoughts?

• cGPA: 3.7, sGPA: 3.65, grad GPA: 3.9
• MCAT: 524 (132/130/132/130)
• Residence: Citizen of Asian country, California resident (green card)
• Ethnicity: ORM
• Undergrad: Berkeley, engineering
• Clinical volunteering: 250 hours
• Research experience and productivity
  • Old engineering career: few thousand hours, 10+ pubs
  • medical research: 1000 hours, 2 pubs
• Shadowing: 200+ hours across multiple specialties
• Other extracurricular activities:
  • Very successful research career in old field. I intend to work in an interdisciplinary area.
• MD School List: Harvard, Penn, Columbia, Stanford, Cornell, Yale, Sinai, Keck, UCSF, UCLA
  • I would add more, but I'm quite picky about location.
  • Looking for heavy research focus

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[shambho]

I’m interested in what the experts will say given your app, but as an aside congratulations on your gpa. Berkeley engineering is not easy

 

[deleted1166622]

I don't think you'll get in

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Repeat post

WAMC 524/3.7, international, USA resident

cGPA: 3.7, sGPA: 3.65, grad GPA: 3.9 MCAT: 524 (132/130/132/130) Residence: Citizen of Asian country, California resident (green card) Ethnicity: ORM Undergrad: Berkeley, engineering Clinical volunteering: 250 hours Research experience and productivity Old engineering career: few thousand...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[eigen]

I’ve only rarely seen successes this late in the cycle.

I’ll also note that stats are only a relatively small part of acceptance, and your narrative is immensely important.

That said, I would never recommend one of my students be complete this late in the cycle for a reasonable chance. I’ve seen it work out, but only with public universities, and a fantastic candidate with a great mission fit.

 

[heartman1998]

My rationale is that if they interview me now, I have as good a chance as someone who interviewed earlier in the cycle. OTOH, if I don't even get an interview, it's unlikely that I would have received an acceptance from a hypothetical earlier application and interview. Thoughts?

Where might I be going wrong in this line of reasoning?

 

[eigen]

Where might I be going wrong in this line of reasoning?

Because logistically, there are fewer slots you're competing for now than you were a month ago. Many programs, either directly or practically, have rolling admissions.

For a school who admits on a rolling basis, if you're interviewing after a portion of the class has been filled, then you're competing with the same number of people for fewer remaining slots.

For a school with limited interview slots, you have to have a proportionally stronger application to get one of the later slots after many have already been given out.

Sure, a super strong application will likely get consideration even submitted late, but it's not going to have as much of a chance as if it was early or even on time.

Additionally, submitting an application this late indirectly says something about you: it says you either weren't prepared to submit on time, or didn't prioritize submitting earlier. Neither is a positive message to a competitive program.

 

[Holland]

Because logistically, there are fewer slots you're competing for now than you were a month ago. Many programs, either directly or practically, have rolling admissions.

For a school who admits on a rolling basis, if you're interviewing after a portion of the class has been filled, then you're competing with the same number of people for fewer remaining slots.

For a school with limited interview slots, you have to have a proportionally stronger application to get one of the later slots after many have already been given out.

Sure, a super strong application will likely get consideration even submitted late, but it's not going to have as much of a chance as if it was early or even on time.

Additionally, submitting an application this late indirectly says something about you: it says you either weren't prepared to submit on time, or didn't prioritize submitting earlier. Neither is a positive message to a competitive program.

Why do many programs have deadlines well into November or even December if even early October is late enough to be a near-dealbreaker? I'm not asking rhetorically—I'm genuinely curious. Are they just holding out for hypothetical applicants you describe as perfect fits?

 

[heartman1998]

And would you advise that a candidate with an application ready in October not submit it? Why? Worst case, the applicant has to reapply. Is there some stigma associated with being a reapplicant? Please assume here that the applicant is not sensitive to the financial cost of the application process.

 

[Muq]

And would you advise that a candidate with an application ready in October not submit it? Why? Worst case, the applicant has to reapply. Is there some stigma associated with being a reapplicant? Please assume here that the applicant is not sensitive to the financial cost of the application process.

If you are a re-applicant, you'd have to show how you improved since your previous application. You're a good candidate and it's possible you get an interview, but it's also possible you might not get an interview spot, especially if many interviews have already been sent out and they still have to get through reviewing applications submitted in August and September. You don't have much to lose imo except money (and a potential extra essay talking about what you've done since your previous app).

Additionally, your school list further lowers the odds as well. You have an amazing MCAT, but the GPA is below the median for all of your schools.

 

[heartman1998]

You don't have much to lose imo except money (and a potential extra essay talking about what you've done since your previous app).

Can anyone else corroborate? If that is all, I have zero qualms about applying so late. It's definitely better than no app in my situation.

 

[deleted1167714]

Why do many programs have deadlines well into November or even December if even early October is late enough to be a near-dealbreaker? I'm not asking rhetorically—I'm genuinely curious. Are they just holding out for hypothetical applicants you describe as perfect fits?

This is always something I've wondered as well. It doesn't make sense to me that schools have deadlines of like December 31st but yet submitting after Labor Day is considered "late".

 

[Angler]

OP, this is the third thread that you've started this week. You are asking for help in each, and you deserve that help. However, in each thread, you seem to be quite argumentative and tend toward not accepting the sincere advice that is offered to you. The folks here really do try to help.

There seems to be conflicting and/or absent information in some of the threads. In your first thread, you say you were a Physics major (Math minor). You indicated that your post-bacc GPA was quite low due to extenuating circumstances. Volunteering was 500 hours (not specified what this was).

Missing committee letter

It completed one of the popular post-bacc programs. However, I failed to secure a committee letter due to a few missed emails; additionally, my post-bacc GPA was quite low. My advisory dean has offered to write me a "cover letter" in its place. This letter will confirm that I completed the...

forums.studentdoctor.net

Then in subsequent posts, you say you were an Engineering major at Cal. Which was it? If you were a double major, you should have mentioned it. You didn't mention your post-bacc at all in the important WAMC thread (you are concerned about your low GPA in the post-bacc), in which you also indicated volunteering at 250 hours (must have been all clinical volunteering because you said you have had no non-clinical volunteering).

WAMC 524/3.7, international, USA resident

cGPA: 3.7, sGPA: 3.65, grad GPA: 3.9 MCAT: 524 (132/130/132/130) Residence: Citizen of Asian country, California resident (green card) Ethnicity: ORM Undergrad: Berkeley, engineering Clinical volunteering: 250 hours Research experience and productivity Old engineering career: few thousand...

forums.studentdoctor.net

I think you would be able to get more honest opinions here if you were careful with your facts in your posts (and don't start new a new thread for essentially the same application), and not be so contrary in your posting. Some may be willing to look past the tone of your posts, but others won't.

 

[LindaAccepted]

And would you advise that a candidate with an application ready in October not submit it? Why? Worst case, the applicant has to reapply. Is there some stigma associated with being a reapplicant? Please assume here that the applicant is not sensitive to the financial cost of the application process.

I've never heard of there being any stigma in applying twice or even three times. However, if you have to reapply to the same programs more than 3 times, you start to look a little stale, unless something changes materially in your application.

Realize that the schools on your list are among the most competitive and applying late in the cycle is like joining a game of musical chairs late in the game when many of the chairs have been removed and too many people are competing for the few remaining spots. The late deadlines are there for the exceptional applicant who applies late in the cycle, but chances are reduced.

I usually advise clients that attempting to apply late in the cycle as opposed to waiting till early in the next cycle is a personal choice. Would they rather have some chance of starting med school this summer even if lower than if they applied early the cycle? Or would they rather wait until next cycle to maximize their chances of acceptance the first/next time they apply.

I also think your initial logic is flawed. You can't assume at all that if you don't get an II late in the cycle you wouldn't have been accepted to a specific program. It depends on the applicant pool in the cycle in which you are applying and probably other less objective factors -- like the mood of the person reviewing your app. It's just not that predictable of a process.

I'd also recommend you get more clinical exposure and community service.

 

[eigen]

Why do many programs have deadlines well into November or even December if even early October is late enough to be a near-dealbreaker? I'm not asking rhetorically—I'm genuinely curious. Are they just holding out for hypothetical applicants you describe as perfect fits?

Deadlines are cutoffs. For pretty much everything, the earlier you apply the better, not just medical schools. The deadline is when you can no longer be considered.

 

[heartman1998]

personal choice. Would they rather have some chance of starting med school this summer even if lower than if they applied early the cycle? Or would they rather wait until next cycle to maximize their chances of acceptance the first/next time they apply.

What is the benefit of getting accepted the first time by applying next year? The student's app is delayed by a year. Is there some benefit to getting accepted the first time that I am not seeing?

 

[karaya]

Thoughts?

• MD School List: Harvard, Penn, Columbia, Stanford, Cornell, Yale, Sinai, Keck, UCSF, UCLA

Why would you do this to yourself mate

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Why do many programs have deadlines well into November or even December if even early October is late enough to be a near-dealbreaker? I'm not asking rhetorically—I'm genuinely curious. Are they just holding out for hypothetical applicants you describe as perfect fits?

This is normal procedure for admissions. The volume of the application pool dictates the "practical" deadline of October. There are other graduate programs where the behavior of the applicant pool is less overwhelming than the AMCAS pool.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Locking as this has been previously posted and discussed extensively in WAMC: WAMC 524/3.7, international, USA resident