Constructive Service Credit (CSC) Quagmire

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phudmud said:
I recently discovered that the Navy granted CSC to their HPSPer's. I mentioned this fact to Susan Reed. Her responses:

"all branches should be following the same regulations"

my response:

"exactly"

What came of that exchange:

nothing.
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Navy uses OPNAV INST 1120.4. Not sure what the Army uses.
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If an advanced degree is listed on an ORB, do you still have to petition for CSC?
 
cavaor said:
If an advanced degree is listed on an ORB, do you still have to petition for CSC?
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Yes, but each service has different procedures depending if you are HPSP or FAP, etc. If they don't give you what you deserve, complain loudly and take it straight to your congressional rep. THe people who process the CSC approvals are not in hospitals and do not influence evaluations at the local level far from the flag pole.
 
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hello all,


I found out this week that most of us in the Army will have to see our company commander about rectifying this CSC mess, and that we should leave the Board of Records Corrections out of it for now. I'm not sure what will come of this, because the personnel guy at my hospital, who my company commander put me in touch with, had never even heard of anyone with a problem like mine in over 20 years of service. This left me with one of two thoughts -- either this personnel guy was clueless, or Col. Powers had royally screwed everyone this year and set a new precedent for rejecting CSC. Take your pick, but I'm leaning toward the second choice.

A second thing. I met a new PM resident this week who had already completed his MPH prior to medical school. Guess how much CSC he got? NONE!!! So it looks as if the OTSG may have told a little fib to me and you about giving CSC to the MPH holders. This new information suggests that NOT ONE incoming resident got CSC for an advanced degree this year, despite the fact that at least 20% of us have graduate degrees in science or medicine of one sort or another.

It appears that the most appropriate course of action now is to contact your chain of command and ask them to help you. My company commander agreed that this needs to be resolved sooner rather than later, as it will become more of a problem if left unresolved for longer than six to twelve months.

Good Luck
 
Good luck to you all and if anyone needs a testimonial from someone who received CSC for a PhD and the difference that it makes I would be happy to do so.

Geo
 
Just to clarify, this is your military company commander who said to leave the corrections board out of it????

We had a doc come talk to us during orientation and when he found out some of us had been denied CSC he offered to help us put together our packet for the corrections board.
 
GeoLeo -- I may take you up on your offer for a letter.

Delicatefade -- how did you bring the CSC subject up to this doc you mentioned in your post??? What degree do you have that got snubbed for CSC? How many interns do you know who got snubbed beside you. Just curious.
 
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This CSC issue runs deeper than I thought. I've learned that at least two 2007 Army interns denied CSC last year reapplied for the credit this year. COL Powers rejected their claims a second time, and they have since hired private lawyers to help them navigate the system. I'm not sure if they have taken to writing Congressional reps, but in light of this new information we may find that this action will provide a more expedient positive outcome than going through the chain of command, which ultimately takes us back to COL Powers. This is especially true if we send out our letters at roughly the same time, resulting in an avalanche of inquiry to the OTSG.

Those who know say COL Powers is well aware of the magnitude of the CSC issue this year; my personnel officer says it appears to be brewing across the AMEDD. Despite this, COL Powers insists that any resubmissions that comes across his desk will be rejected, despite the fact that his decision is against AR CSC guidelines. Bottom line -- it's time to take the gloves off.
 
I received new information that the OTSG may be willing to re-evaluate CSC applications, but they need specific information from each person denied this year. Susan Reed of OTSG has agree to be contacted directly. Her phone number is:

703-681-8043


Please indicate to her that you have been denied CSC and would like to have your application re-evaluated. Also indicate that the reason for denial this year (i.e. the degree doesn't shorten the time in residency) is not found in AR 135-101, which is the regulating document for awarding CSC to AMEDD officers.

WE MUST ALL CALL HER TO LET HER KNOW THE MAGNITUDE OF OUR CONCERN. If only a few of us call this will not result in a positive outcome.
 
Just spoke with her on the phone. It doesn't sound as promising as I thought. We can send her an email with our information and concerns. It is important that you already turned in documentation of your degree to their office before or during your FYGME application. She will review the email and send it to COL Powers for a second decision, but it sounds like it will be rejected again. At that point, she said we can go through the board of corrections, but as we all know all that will do is send it back to his desk a third time.

She commented a little on the regulations and noted that they state that your degree should provide some kind of adjunctive skill/knowledge to your job as a physician. Although one would think that degrees like physiology, etc would provide adjuctive skills/knowledge, she noted that for the past 2-3 years COL Powers has been interpreting this regulation to mean that your previous degree should allow you to finish residency sooner or become board certified sooner. As we all know, the MPH is the only degree that would allow a shortened residency, and that only if you do preventive medicine. I don't know of any M.S. or PhD that would allow board certification sooner.

So apparently, it's back to having an MPH. When I pointed out to her it's a little inconsistent for people to be granted CSC if they have an MPH but do not do prev med, she backpedaled quite a bit and said "Well, the possibility of doing prev med as a second residency is still there and it would shorten that residency."

This makes absolutely no sense. I'm going to draft an email with my concerns but this is not looking good.
 
What a bunch of BS, although it's the same BS that I heard back in April. If they are interpreting things this way, then why does AR135-101 even list the other degrees as worthy of CSC?

Here's the plan -- it's time to drop the A-bomb and get Congress involved. If 5-10 Congressional inquiries come down of COL Powers head at the same time, he'll have no choice but to fix this situation. It looks especially bad considering we are at war and the Army is trying to screw its new docs out of credit they deserve.

After hearing news of this call, I'm less encouraged about the likelihood of a policy reversal by COL Powers. However, I still encourage everyone to call who has interest to.
 
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I called and sent an email with my details and concerns per Ms. Reed's instructions. Just got an email back from COL Powers stating that the decision to deny my CSC is consistent with the decisions from the OTSG over the past four years. The only avenue of appeal, according to the email, is the military corrections board.

I was under the impression this was the first year this happened, but according to this OTSG has been denying CSC for a couple years now.
 
Greetings,

I've been reading all the posts regarding CSC. I'm a 1yr navy hpsp with an MPH. Should I be trying to seek CSC for this now or is this something I should do just before residency?

Thanks
 
Folks, the saga continues.

I spoke to human resources command (HRC) last week. They said we should get CSC for advanced degrees. All fully trained docs who come into the Army through HRC get CSC for advanced degrees in just about any scientific discipline. The HRC folks said the OTSG is up to something screwy but they don't know why. Worse, since our chain of command is through OTSG and not HRC (because we came in through HPSP), the HRC people cannot rectify our situation, although they say they would in a heartbeat if we were in their command chain.


At Madigan Army medical center, all the residency directors and the intern coordinator are fully aware of our problem. They are behind us 100% and are working hard to fix the current situation.

Susan Reed of the OTSG continues to assert that we should go through a board of records correction to fix the CSC problem. DO NOT DO THIS!!! I found out that any board will ask the OTSG for advisory input. Of course OTSG will NOT recommend CSC because they want to be consistent with their new policy. The board will therefore rule against you, and you'll essentially be dead in the water with almost no place to go from there.

If the people at Madigan cannot get the CSC thing fixed when COL Powers comes to visit in September, then we will have to collectively write our Congressional representatives. Why? Because the only way COL Powers will change his mind at this point is through a direct order from above, not a request from below.

For the Navy HPSP who asked about MPH degrees getting CSC, they most certainly do, or at least they did last year. Don't believe what your recruiter is telling you. You need to call your Navy OTSG office.
 
phudmud said:
Susan Reed of the OTSG continues to assert that we should go through a board of records correction to fix the CSC problem. DO NOT DO THIS!!! I found out that any board will ask the OTSG for advisory input. Of course OTSG will NOT recommend CSC because they want to be consistent with their new policy. The board will therefore rule against you, and you'll essentially be dead in the water with almost no place to go from there.
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The board will consider the information you presented. Then it will present that information to OTSG and request clarification as to the rationale for their decision making. I believe you will have an opportunity to review their written response and then provide your own response. The review board will take it into consideration and make an independent decision based on what they consider the facts. It might not be a bad idea to submit a BCR on this.
 
Colleagues,

I just joined the discussion regarding CSC, and was wondering where do I find the forms necessary to submit my package to OTSG? Also, it appears as if OTSG is re-considering the prior steps in summarily refusing CSC to all incoming residents - is this the case?

I have 2 MS degrees obtained prior to med school (nutrition and biology) and I sure would like to get some credit for them.
 
blueskyIN said:
Colleagues,

I just joined the discussion regarding CSC, and was wondering where do I find the forms necessary to submit my package to OTSG? Also, it appears as if OTSG is re-considering the prior steps in summarily refusing CSC to all incoming residents - is this the case?

I have 2 MS degrees obtained prior to med school (nutrition and biology) and I sure would like to get some credit for them.
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If it is Army, then when you are in your 4th year you will get a letter of instruction that explains it. There are no forms, just submit your transcript and usually a letter requesting it. If you are a 4th year now, the deadline was Oct 15th.

If you missed the deadline or your request is denied, then you ave to go through a board of corrections after you are on active duty.
 
I'm going to give this thread a bump for this years round of graduates who probably are just looking at their orders and finding out they got rejected for CSC (like me :( ).

Has anyone who has been down this path made any headway on this issue? Any ideas where to start in rectifying this? I have a degree prior to medical school that is plainly spelled out in Table 3-3 of AR135-101, but got a golden goose egg from HRC. :mad:
 
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deegs said:
I'm going to give this thread a bump for this years round of graduates who probably are just looking at their orders and finding out they got rejected for CSC (like me :( ).

Has anyone who has been down this path made any headway on this issue? Any ideas where to start in rectifying this? I have a degree prior to medical school that is plainly spelled out in Table 3-3 of AR135-101, but got a golden goose egg from HRC. :mad:
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This is definately the MO at that office. They clearly do not like to grant any grad credit despite what Congress might think. Fortunately, there are some ways around this and some people have won. Since I am the real Easter Bunny, I have important obligatins this morning. I'll post some options later today. IgD had a good link as well I'll re-post.
 
Graduate work seems to again have been denied again by the Army GME office across the board. The good news is that the DoD instructions and Army Regs are on the side of granting grad credit. There are several options:

1. Email them with "return receipt requested" and ask them why your grad work was denied, perhaps they will change their mind -- doubtful. Email is important in order to document why they refused or ignored.

2. Wait for a Board of Corrections for justice. This works. But, it can take months or years. Specifically, thanks to IgD for pointing this website out: http://boards.law.af.mil/ There are several cases that overturned GME decisions, including pre-med masters and MPH's. I found two specific cases: docket numbers AR20070017437 and AR20070000516. Wording of the appeal is important.

3. Go straight for the congressional inquiry. I have done this for other things. Strength in numbers: the more people that do this, the more pressure will come to bear and perhaps will relent. Inquiries go to the OTSG, then down to the GME office, so the generals will know.

4. Do all the above.

If doing a congressional be sure to give the above cases to the congressional aide as evidence to use, as well as quote DoD I 6000.13 para 6.1.2.2.3, and AR135-101.
 
Yeah, I was planning on something along these lines, but I was hoping someone out there had a good quick-n-easy solution based on experience. Its looking pretty long-n-painful from here.....
 
deegs said:
Yeah, I was planning on something along these lines, but I was hoping someone out there had a good quick-n-easy solution based on experience. Its looking pretty long-n-painful from here.....
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If need credit soon, then congressional. If can wait, perhaps Board is better. Each requires some paperwork, but either is not too painful. The painful part is putting together the paperwork and drafting your case.
 
Just wanted to see if there had been any news regarding this topic. I contacted the GME office and got the same response as everyone above but was also told to contact the army board of corrections. I did that as well as initiating a congressional inquiry - once my inquiry got going they then said that the army board has the last say and since I had submitted my application there I was told that I have to wait for their response. Well...

Army board response we contacted GME. Susan Reed at GME said that master's not required for MD degree and appointment in MC. master's does NOT add adjunctive skills to my specialty...therefore recommend against granting of constructive credit. Army board now awaiting my response...

I am unsure how to approach this - I contacted a lawyer and he states that we just have to prove that this degree adds to my specialty. What about the fact that this was something that was promised to me 10 yrs ago when I commissioned!!! Anyone else have any advice. I know that this is a old thread but I am reaching for straws....
 
nypostbac said:
Just wanted to see if there had been any news regarding this topic. I contacted the GME office and got the same response as everyone above but was also told to contact the army board of corrections. I did that as well as initiating a congressional inquiry - once my inquiry got going they then said that the army board has the last say and since I had submitted my application there I was told that I have to wait for their response. Well...

Army board response we contacted GME. Susan Reed at GME said that master's not required for MD degree and appointment in MC. master's does NOT add adjunctive skills to my specialty...therefore recommend against granting of constructive credit. Army board now awaiting my response...

I am unsure how to approach this - I contacted a lawyer and he states that we just have to prove that this degree adds to my specialty. What about the fact that this was something that was promised to me 10 yrs ago when I commissioned!!! Anyone else have any advice. I know that this is a old thread but I am reaching for straws....
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Congressional inquiry? Contacting a lawyer? Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems to me that you are running a high risk of royally pissing somebody off while having a very low chance of getting credit for your degree.

Also, unless you have something in writing and intend to accuse the Army of breach of contract, then whatever you were "promised" a decade ago means precisely squadoosh.

Not meaning to sound harsh, just realistic. They can - and do - change the rules mid-game all the time. Fighting it is useful to a point; it sounds like you're beyond that point.
 
The only thing I can suggest is to keep at it. From what I understand COL Powers was the final arbiter and was adamantly against constructive credit for other advanced degrees. He will be replaced soon, perhaps his replacement will interpret the reg differently. I got my csc under COL Jaffin, the predecessor to COL Powers.
 
colbgw02 said:
Congressional inquiry? Contacting a lawyer? Maybe I'm missing something here, but it seems to me that you are running a high risk of royally pissing somebody off while having a very low chance of getting credit for your degree.

Also, unless you have something in writing and intend to accuse the Army of breach of contract, then whatever you were "promised" a decade ago means precisely squadoosh.

Not meaning to sound harsh, just realistic. They can - and do - change the rules mid-game all the time. Fighting it is useful to a point; it sounds like you're beyond that point.
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Colbgw02 -
Thanks for your response but I have to disagree. According to the DOD Instruction based on how we are assigned when we come onto active duty says that we should get constructive credit for advanced degrees. See below...

6.1.2.2.2. Credit for master's and doctorate degrees in a health profession other than medicine and dentistry, whether it is the primary degree or an additional advanced degree, shall be awarded based on actual full-time equivalent education of up to two years for a master's degree and up to four years for a
doctorate. Credit may not include time spent in attainment of baccalaureate or other lower degrees. No additional credit may be given for more than one advanced degree in a single field, or closely related field. The total credit allowed for having both a master's and a doctorate degree may not exceed the maximum allowed for a doctorate.

In addition - I found this on the LOI for 2013:

Constructive Service Credit (CSC) for Grade Determination: In order to determine if additional credit beyond the normal credit granted for grade determination should be awarded for a particular individual, consideration is given for prior active/reserve commissioned Service and may rarely be granted for advanced degrees such as Masters or Ph.D. For any credit to be awarded, the following documents must be mailed to the Army GME office: Credit for Prior Service: (a) DD Form 214 (Please check all dates and calculations on DD214s for accuracy before you submit to this office for CSC credit) or (b) National Guard Bureau (NGB) Form 22 (Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty). Credit for Advanced Degree: (a) Original transcript (with seal) for the advanced degree and (b) certified true copy of the advanced degree diploma. It should be understood that CSC credit cannot be awarded if the required documents are not received in the Army GME office by 15 October 2012. Any credit awarded will be indicated on the active duty orders for those individuals selected to participate in the Army FYGME Program.

Why have it on the instruction if you are not allowing granting of the CSC? In addition - there have been 2 people who just graduated from residency - 1 with PhD in history and another with an MPH who got 4 years and 2 years respectively. What makes me any difference I have a master's in biology and worked hard for it and was told that I would get credit. I am just trying to correct an injustice.
 
GeoLeoX said:
The only thing I can suggest is to keep at it. From what I understand COL Powers was the final arbiter and was adamantly against constructive credit for other advanced degrees. He will be replaced soon, perhaps his replacement will interpret the reg differently. I got my csc under COL Jaffin, the predecessor to COL Powers.
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Geo -
Thanks! Do you know when Powers is officially gone? I heard that his replacement is more sympathetic...
 
nypostbac said:
Colbgw02 -
Thanks for your response but I have to disagree. According to the DOD Instruction based on how we are assigned when we come onto active duty says that we should get constructive credit for advanced degrees. See below...

6.1.2.2.2. Credit for master’s and doctorate degrees in a health profession other than medicine and dentistry, whether it is the primary degree or an additional advanced degree, shall be awarded based on actual full-time equivalent education of up to two years for a master’s degree and up to four years for a
doctorate. Credit may not include time spent in attainment of baccalaureate or other lower degrees. No additional credit may be given for more than one advanced degree in a single field, or closely related field. The total credit allowed for having both a master’s and a doctorate degree may not exceed the maximum allowed for a doctorate.

In addition - I found this on the LOI for 2013:

Constructive Service Credit (CSC) for Grade Determination: In order to determine if additional credit beyond the normal credit granted for grade determination should be awarded for a particular individual, consideration is given for prior active/reserve commissioned Service and may rarely be granted for advanced degrees such as Masters or Ph.D. For any credit to be awarded, the following documents must be mailed to the Army GME office: Credit for Prior Service: (a) DD Form 214 (Please check all dates and calculations on DD214s for accuracy before you submit to this office for CSC credit) or (b) National Guard Bureau (NGB) Form 22 (Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty). Credit for Advanced Degree: (a) Original transcript (with seal) for the advanced degree and (b) certified true copy of the advanced degree diploma. It should be understood that CSC credit cannot be awarded if the required documents are not received in the Army GME office by 15 October 2012. Any credit awarded will be indicated on the active duty orders for those individuals selected to participate in the Army FYGME Program.

Why have it on the instruction if you are not allowing granting of the CSC? In addition - there have been 2 people who just graduated from residency - 1 with PhD in history and another with an MPH who got 4 years and 2 years respectively. What makes me any difference I have a master's in biology and worked hard for it and was told that I would get credit. I am just trying to correct an injustice.
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I'm guessing that since you posted 6.1.2.2.2 that you also saw the regulation immediately after it - 6.1.2.2.3:

The additional degree must add adjunctive skills to the primary specialty and must contribute directly to performance in the anticipated position in the Military Service concerned.

For many years, they chose to liberally interpret this regulation. That (old) interpretation seems reasonable to me, since a master's degree in biology appears relevant to being a physician. However, that does mean that a more strict interpretation (i.e. the one currently being applied) is outside the letter of the regulation. In fact, given that this new interpretation has been in effect for many years now, I'd hazard to guess that it has held up to scrutiny repeatedly.

Now, I'm not trying to dissuade you from giving it the old college try. However, I am suggesting that - by initiating congressional inquiries and considering legal action (I'm inferring this based on your consultation with an attorney) - you're well beyond the point of diminishing returns. You're so far beyond it that I think you're more likely to experience punitive blow back rather than get your CC.

I hope you succeed, just be leary of ticking off the GME office. If you're still in training, then they can ruin your career if they really want to. Good luck.
 
colbgw02 said:
I'm guessing that since you posted 6.1.2.2.2 that you also saw the regulation immediately after it - 6.1.2.2.3:

The additional degree must add adjunctive skills to the primary specialty and must contribute directly to performance in the anticipated position in the Military Service concerned.

For many years, they chose to liberally interpret this regulation. That (old) interpretation seems reasonable to me, since a master's degree in biology appears relevant to being a physician. However, that does mean that a more strict interpretation (i.e. the one currently being applied) is outside the letter of the regulation. In fact, given that this new interpretation has been in effect for many years now, I'd hazard to guess that it has held up to scrutiny repeatedly.

Now, I'm not trying to dissuade you from giving it the old college try. However, I am suggesting that - by initiating congressional inquiries and considering legal action (I'm inferring this based on your consultation with an attorney) - you're well beyond the point of diminishing returns. You're so far beyond it that I think you're more likely to experience punitive blow back rather than get your CC.

I hope you succeed, just be leary of ticking off the GME office. If you're still in training, then they can ruin your career if they really want to. Good luck.
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Thanks for your response. I do appreciate the advice. Thank goodness I am no longer in training. Graduated in June. Studying for the boards coming up on Thursday!

Anyways, I did see the next line in the instruction and would agree that this has been open to interpretation HOWEVER when former classmates are getting credit for a PhD in HISTORY, this is where I need to put my foot down. Either you enforce the regulation uniformly (like all residents must pass a PT test to graduate) or you don't. As for my situation I would agree with you that a master's in biology is relevant in the practice of medicine how to get the army board to see my side....aye that is the rub! :)
 
Ha. I haven't been on here in years. Update on my situation. I did get my CSC and was promoted to Major this year. Here is how I approached it:

1. See my posts from above in 2008 for the responses I got from Army OTSG regarding CSC.
2. They also told me to go through the board of corrections. I noted the post above which advises against that because the board will simply ask the OTSG for an advisory opinion and we all know what that opinion will be.
3. I was initially denied by the board of corrections because, guess what, the OTSG advised them to deny it. I mean, what does the board think the person who denied CSC in the first place is going to say?
4. I appealed the board decision. You are allowed to do this, and I didn't care if it upset anyone. I contacted both my congressman and senator and they sent a nice letter to the OTSG and the board of corrections.
5. I also got my program director to write a letter for my appeal outlining how my master's degree adds adjunctive skills to my specialty. This is probably where some have trouble, but mine was a slam dunk.
6. The board also made a fatal error. In their decision, they said that I could not be eligible for CSC because I received my master's degree PRIOR to my medical degree. Not only is this stated nowhere in the regulations, when I sent my appeal, I highlighted the appropriate part of the regs, included the letter from my PD, and included copies of two previous board of corrections cases where they had granted CSC to applicants who had clearly received master's degrees prior to medical school.
7. Result = credit granted, time in rank adjusted, promoted in June.

Good luck. I don't see how anyone can avoid going through the Board of Corrections but I realize YMMV.
 
delicatefade said:
6. The board also made a fatal error. In their decision, they said that I could not be eligible for CSC because I received my master's degree PRIOR to my medical degree. Not only is this stated nowhere in the regulations, when I sent my appeal, I highlighted the appropriate part of the regs, included the letter from my PD, and included copies of two previous board of corrections cases where they had granted CSC to applicants who had clearly received master's degrees prior to medical school.
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Wait, does this mean they will give CSC for masters degrees recieved after medical school? That would be a huge incentive for people to pick up an MPH on GMO time, especially if they were planning to go career. I thought that ONLY prior to med school degrees counted.
 
OPNAV

1120.4B - 7 JUL 2011
1120.4A - 29 NOV 2009

When will 1120.4C come out?
 
No, they will not. When I was going through this I got the sense that they would literally say anything, even if incorrect, to deny CSC.
 
Has anyone heard if COL Powers replacement is going to grant CSC for non-MPH degrees? I have an Masters in Physiology and would love to get credit for it.

Also, it is my understanding that to apply for CSC you just have to send your transcript and degree to Janis Jones via email. Is this correct, or is there anything else you need to do?
 
Did you read this thread? Unlikely COL Powers will grant it. Janis Jones will send you an email saying the COL says no, or will ignore you. You will have to prove that this adds adjunctive skills to your specialty and go through the board of corrections, who will then ask the OTSG (and COL Powers) for an advisory opinion. Be prepared to fight if you want it.
 
delicatefade said:
Did you read this thread? Unlikely COL Powers will grant it. Janis Jones will send you an email saying the COL says no, or will ignore you. You will have to prove that this adds adjunctive skills to your specialty and go through the board of corrections, who will then ask the OTSG (and COL Powers) for an advisory opinion. Be prepared to fight if you want it.
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I did read the thread. I was under the impression that COL Powers is gone, which is why I asked if the new person who has his job has a different policy.
 
Everyone seems to be discussing CSC granted at the time of medical school graduation. Is this the cutoff under discussion because that is when everyone was commissioned? If not, why then? I was commissioned during medical school in the National Guard, and will be reappointed in the Medical Corps after graduation. During medical school (while in the Guard), I obtained a Master's degree. Understanding all of the discussion about ANY request for CSC being unlikely to succeed in the current environment, is this even something for which I can make a reasonable case for CSC?

P.S. I am in the National Guard, if that makes a difference.
P.P.S. The regulations I've found and been confused by: DoDI 6000.13, DoDI 1312.03, AR 135-101.
 
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delicatefade said:
Ha. I haven't been on here in years. Update on my situation. I did get my CSC and was promoted to Major this year. Here is how I approached it:

1. See my posts from above in 2008 for the responses I got from Army OTSG regarding CSC.
2. They also told me to go through the board of corrections. I noted the post above which advises against that because the board will simply ask the OTSG for an advisory opinion and we all know what that opinion will be.
3. I was initially denied by the board of corrections because, guess what, the OTSG advised them to deny it. I mean, what does the board think the person who denied CSC in the first place is going to say?
4. I appealed the board decision. You are allowed to do this, and I didn't care if it upset anyone. I contacted both my congressman and senator and they sent a nice letter to the OTSG and the board of corrections.
5. I also got my program director to write a letter for my appeal outlining how my master's degree adds adjunctive skills to my specialty. This is probably where some have trouble, but mine was a slam dunk.
6. The board also made a fatal error. In their decision, they said that I could not be eligible for CSC because I received my master's degree PRIOR to my medical degree. Not only is this stated nowhere in the regulations, when I sent my appeal, I highlighted the appropriate part of the regs, included the letter from my PD, and included copies of two previous board of corrections cases where they had granted CSC to applicants who had clearly received master's degrees prior to medical school.
7. Result = credit granted, time in rank adjusted, promoted in June.

Good luck. I don't see how anyone can avoid going through the Board of Corrections but I realize YMMV.
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Poster above went through 4 years of trouble to get CSC!

I Followed OPNAV instructions. Eligibility is clear in my circumstance.
Regardless, Denied. Must I do Board of corrections wait along with contact to local congressman and senator to get this!

Worth seeking legal representation in this case?
And if so, should I seek civilian or JAG representation?
 
andrespena said:
Poster above went through 4 years of trouble to get CSC!

I Followed OPNAV instructions. Eligibility is clear in my circumstance.
Regardless, Denied. Must I do Board of corrections wait along with contact to local congressman and senator to get this!

Worth seeking legal representation in this case?
And if so, should I seek civilian or JAG representation?
Click to expand...

Could be worse. When I asked the AF personnel office's Lt. Col in charge of my specialty, he said that he had never heard of constructive service credit. That's right, the Air Force's man-in-charge didn't even know his own regs. For you, I doubt going the route of Congress/Senate is going to do anything. Your elected reps can only ask that military "look into it." They can't compel them to act. The JAG is definitely not going to help; they work for the government. Short of going through the inspector general, there's probably not much recourse here.

DoD instruction 6000.13 (start on page 4)
Air Force Instruction 36-2005 (Table on page 35)
 
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I had to re-apply several times for my CSC, I recall going through the correction board. I did it during residency for credit for a PhD earned prior to starting med school.
I had to argue with them on whether I was already AF property when I got my degree. One strategy is to wait for the OIC to change and re-apply to the new person.
I have seen a number of people stop after the first try, I would press on as it could impact you on several fronts such as back pay, "early" promotion, etc. No doubt they want to deny it
as it will cost DoD more money. I never thought of getting a civilian lawyer.
 
Resurrecting from the crypt to bump to see if anyone has any insight into current situation if they are granting MPH credit (obtained before doctorate) and best way to obtain. Thanks
 
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