Consulting

[meddev]

For those who are making or have made the transition to consulting from medical school, what is the offer rate if accepted to one of the 1-week introduction programs like McKinsey Insight, Connect to Clearview, Link to LEK, Bridge to BCG?

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[Redpancreas]

OP, I know you’re asking the questions but I’m curious what these 1-week introduction programs. I think that would be valuable to outline in the meantime until people who know the answer to your question respond.

 

[Redpancreas]

Basically, they're "intro to consulting" type programs offered by these firms catered to recruiting MD and PhD candidates or recent grads. You can read more about them on their websites. Acceptance into these programs guarantees a first-round interview for full-time at these firms. I'm just curious what portion of these invitees end up getting an actual job offer.

Insight

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Anyone know? Seems like an interesting topic to discuss.

 

[sipping_cipro]

I know nothing, but I really doubt they're interested in MD/DO graduates who don't have any postgraduate training of at LEAST an intern year. Let's be real, the only thing that separates me (a late 3rd year) from anyone else is a random collection of medical trivia and a vague and probably incorrect sense of how healthcare functions.

 

[Mad Jack]

I know nothing, but I really doubt they're interested in MD/DO graduates who don't have any postgraduate training of at LEAST an intern year. Let's be real, the only thing that separates me (a late 3rd year) from anyone else is a random collection of medical trivia and a vague and probably incorrect sense of how healthcare functions.

They actually don't care. Most of their new blood is based on pedigree, not experience, and they teach you their way of doing things from the inside.

 

[sipping_cipro]

They actually don't care. Most of their new blood is based on pedigree, not experience, and they teach you their way of doing things from the inside.

lmao, that's their loss I guess. I'm a dumb ****ing dude, and I go to a top school. I'd never hire my ass without some real residency experience, even if that future job is unrelated to anything medical ever again. I feel like residency changes our whole worth, as we don't just gain medical knowledge, but also gain skills in making quick judgements, analyzing data, increased work ethic, and the ability to get **** done.

 

[Mad Jack]

lmao, that's their loss I guess. I'm a dumb ****ing dude, and I go to a top school. I'd never hire my ass without some real residency experience, even if that future job is unrelated to anything medical ever again. I feel like residency changes our whole worth, as we don't just gain medical knowledge, but also gain skills in making quick judgements, analyzing data, increased work ethic, and the ability to get **** done.

Their brand is built on having the best of the best and their particular flavor of consulting. Potential clients don't care that you've done a residency. They want to know how many nurses to lay off to get fat checks while minimizing PR fallout

 

[whataschool_classof24]

lmao, that's their loss I guess. I'm a dumb ****ing dude, and I go to a top school. I'd never hire my ass without some real residency experience, even if that future job is unrelated to anything medical ever again. I feel like residency changes our whole worth, as we don't just gain medical knowledge, but also gain skills in making quick judgements, analyzing data, increased work ethic, and the ability to get **** done.

I see lots of med students saying this when in reality they are some of the smartest people I have come across including all the engineers and business folks I know. It seems as if medical education has a tendency to make med students feel this way, and I often feel the same at times lol

 

[Dave1980]

I can say they def don't require residency. I go to a mid-tier med school, have no real work experience, and they've expressed a lot of interest in me. It's for the intellectual / problem-solving skillset I bring, and not my minimal clinical training as a 2nd year med student. Idk if I'll make it all the way through, hence why I'm asking to see what my chances are.

They aren't interested until they give an offer. All the expressed "interest" is a charade and meaningless.

I don't believe these companies are looking to hire med students with no business experience and no business education.

 

[FindersFee5]

They aren't interested until they give an offer. All the expressed "interest" is a charade and meaningless.

I don't believe these companies are looking to hire med students with no business experience and no business education.

Really depends what school you go to. I'm at a T10 and we have a few students every year (with no prior business experience) go work directly for big consulting firms instead of residency.

 

[Dave1980]

Really depends what school you go to. I'm at a T10 and we have a few students every year (with no prior business experience) go work directly for big consulting firms instead of residency.

What an expensive waste of time med school was for them.

 

[sipping_cipro]

Really depends what school you go to. I'm at a T10 and we have a few students every year (with no prior business experience) go work directly for big consulting firms instead of residency.

This is interesting. I go to a top 20, but my school doesn't have "lay prestige," so I doubt a consulting firm would go after us b/c we just have medical pedigree and not lay pedigree. In my memory, none of the classes before me have gone on to fancy consulting firms (or any consulting firms).

What an expensive waste of time med school was for them.

Not a waste if it gets you to a career you enjoy. Maybe not the most efficient way though...

 

[Mad Jack]

What an expensive waste of time med school was for them.

It's not a waste if you're outearning a doctor and not having to deal with the headaches of medicine forever. There are very few good entries into top consulting, so any road is a good road and not a waste

 

[Redpancreas]

Any idea how these big firms use your MD, if at all?

I'm starting at a T10/20 MD school (with 'layman prestige') this summer, and I am interested keeping all non-clinical doors open, given how much medicine seems to be changing for the worse.

It will be on your resume and attract attention. Medical school is where we learn the language and very basic reasoning processes in medicine. You do not learn to practice medicine, unfortunately, in medical school. It is also widely believed that if you found a way to get into a top medical school, you should be able to find a way to solve everyday problems they'll bring to you in the consulting world.

 

[Redpancreas]

Hmmm, I'd probably prefer something at least tangentially related to patients, but they're probably not wrong about the problem-solving. I guess I'll see where I stand in a few years. Thank you

I think we physicians simultaneously think too highly and lowly of ourselves. I think if you boil it down, most of us aren't budding automators/innovators. As a group though, we are some of the hardest workers. This was first apparent to me in the crudest of ways. I remember before med school started during orientation we undertook a project with cleaning up the neighborhood. We were tasked with it. People were on their knees getting their clothes dirty to pull out weeds and people were all sweating and breathing heavily for nothing really to gain. I'm proud of the community I'm part of and think a most of us have our hearts in the right place even if some of us lose our way at times.

 

[doctorBsquared]

I think we physicians simultaneously think too highly and lowly of ourselves. I think if you boil it down, most of us aren't budding automators/innovators. As a group though, we are some of the hardest workers. This was first apparent to me in the crudest of ways. I remember before med school started during orientation we undertook a project with cleaning up the neighborhood. People were on their knees getting their clothes dirty to pull out weeds and people were all sweating and breathing heavily.

That sounds pretty accurate to me

 

[meddev]

You can enter the business world from almost any respectable MD program (maybe top 75 and above) as the resources and network have grown. The hardest step is the first step of finding contacts, building initial experiences, and getting the 1st round of interviews at these big firms. After that pedigree doesn't matter, it's all about your actual merit and performance in the interview.

 

[Redpancreas]

You can enter the business world from almost any respectable MD program (maybe top 75 and above) as the resources and network have grown. The hardest step is the first step of finding contacts, building initial experiences, and getting the 1st round of interviews at these big firms. After that pedigree doesn't matter, it's all about your actual merit and performance in the interview. I'm an example of it. I have a mid-tier med background, and I've made it to the interview stage. Yes, most others are from Harvard, but some aren't.

Any technical news to share with us? Sorry no one was able to directly answer yoru question lol.

 

[Wordead]

Along these lines, how easy or hard would it be to get back into residency if you take a couple of years off to do consulting after med school and decide you want to come back? Let's assume you're a middling med student at a mid-tier school and not one destined for Mass Gen Neurosurgery or something like that

Why would any residency want you

 

[Redpancreas]

Along these lines, how easy or hard would it be to get back into residency if you take a couple of years off to do consulting after med school and decide you want to come back? Let's assume you're a middling med student at a mid-tier school and not one destined for Mass Gen Neurosurgery or something like that

Your profile would be put in the same pile that below average foreign graduates stay in for years. Year of Graduation (YOG) is a term IMGs use and you'll find yourself using those terms too. That newly minted US MD status you have will get thrown out the minute you decide to do something else for a year. I'm not saying you won't match eventually if you come back and do this, but it'll be a lot less likely and you won't be competitive. You mention MGH NSG...we're talking FM in a rural area.

I strongly suggest if you're even thinking about doing residency that you apply and get into it first. The pay between residency and consulting the not a big difference if you're trying to earn money. Well...it might be but it's not 300K vs. 60K. You can always go to consulting after residency (or even during residency if you want to cut it short if it's not for you)...not the reverse. What you would bring to consultants would also be more valuable I'd imagine as you actually .

 

[meddev]

Your profile would be put in the same pile that below average foreign graduates stay in for years. Year of Graduation (YOG) is a term IMGs use and you'll find yourself using those terms too. That newly minted US MD status you have will get thrown out the minute you decide to do something else for a year. I'm not saying you won't match eventually if you come back and do this, but it'll be a lot less likely.

I strongly suggest if you're even thinking about doing residency that you complete residency first. The pay between residency and consulting the not a big difference if you're trying to earn money. You can always go to consulting after residency, not the reverse. What you bring to consultants would also be more valuable I'd imagine.

 

[Splenda88]

I see lots of med students saying this when in reality they are some of the smartest people I have come across including all the engineers and business folks I know. It seems as if medical education has a tendency to make med students feel this way, and I often feel the same at times lol

We are a bunch of humble people.

There was thread here back then with people arguing that anyone with an average IQ can get into med school.

 

[meddev]

We are a bunch of humble people.

There was thread here back then with people arguing anyone with an average IQ can get into med school.

I do think that's true. Getting into med school is more about dedication, commitment, and perseverance than intelligence. Yes, there's a baseline required, but an average IQ can do it. It doesn't require genius-level problem-solving ability.

 

[Splenda88]

I would advise someone to at least do 1 yr post grad training because you never when these firms will pull the rug under you.

 

[Splenda88]

I do think that's true. Getting into med school is more about dedication, commitment, and perseverance than intelligence. Yes, there's a baseline required, but an average IQ can do it. It doesn't require genius-level problem-solving ability.

What is that baseline? I think that baseline is above average based on my experience tutoring nursing students when I was in nursing school.

 

[Splenda88]

It all depends on your measure of intelligence. IQ is a very specific measure of problem-solving skills that in my experience, medical students often lack. Show them any data set or something with numbers and they freak. But show them a process to memorize and they will. The traditional med student intelligence has nothing to do with IQ. That's why you can have an average IQ and still be a great med student.

Well, this is the only thing I can find.

Modern IQ ranges for various occupations

www.iqcomparisonsite.com

 

[Lawpy]

It all depends on your measure of intelligence. IQ is a very specific measure of problem-solving skills that in my experience, medical students often lack. Show them any data set or something with numbers and they freak. But show them a process to memorize and they will. The traditional med student intelligence has nothing to do with IQ. That's why you can have an average IQ and still be a great med student.

In before g factor discussions i had extensively with @efle @Lucca

 

[Splenda88]

That's some interesting data, but it is like 20 years old and smart people have started to go into other careers. I guess most of what I'm saying is anecdotal, and my experience may be biased. I'm an engineering major, I do some business stuff on the side, and I'm in med school. Of the three arenas in which I interact with people, the med students seem the least intelligent in terms of IQ style problem-solving. So in terms of top careers (medicine, IB, consulting, tech), medicine might be lower. But compared to the average population, doctors are smarter. But I never said that doctors / med students are necessarily average intelligence, just said you can make it with average intelligence.

Most defnitely.

 

[whataschool_classof24]

I do think that's true. Getting into med school is more about dedication, commitment, and perseverance than intelligence. Yes, there's a baseline required, but an average IQ can do it. It doesn't require genius-level problem-solving ability.

While I don't think you need to be a genius to get into a mid-tier MD school, you have to be well above average. Now to get into any medical school......

 

[meddev]

I would advise someone to at least do 1 yr post grad training because you never when these firms will pull the rug under you.

Does doing intern year first make it easier to get back into residency if that ends up being the path?

 

[Redpancreas]

The way I look at it right now is I'm like 75% sure on consulting and the business side of medicine, but I also have no experience. If I go get that experience first and decide I want to return for residency, I think I'll be both happier and better able to tailor my residency experience to my goals rather than always thinking "what if the grass is greener on the other side." Doing consulting first will also help me decide what residency I'd want to do and whether or not I'd need a fellowship to achieve my career goals if it's still a hybrid career. If I go straight into residency, I can foresee constantly thinking about the other side, which isn't going to lead to great productivity.

In terms of value-added to the consulting firm, they don't care. 3 more years on the job will help significantly more than a 3-year residency.

In terms of the match, does MBB work in healthcare actually carry negative value? You'd think programs would be looking for strong innovative thinkers who can advance healthcare, right? And let's say it is tough to match but I do eventually match. Could I still get IM at a respectable mid-level academic institution or would I end up at some community hospital in the middle of nowhere?

Also money is not the immediate goal, but like you said entry level consulting salaries aren't amazing. So residency followed by entry level consulting salaries would be doubling down on low-ish pay for two trainings rather than for just one.

Before this thread gets derailed, does anyone else think OP is making a mistake here?

OP, I won’t say you won’t match IM at a midtier institution and it’s not that consulting/finance will be a net negative as much as being 3 years out from clinical medicine.

Not to get dramatic, but the best way of thinking about it in my opinion is to consider it like the NFL draft. You’re a hot commodity out of college, you’ve got everyone’s attention, etc. If you decide to leave for 3 years even to do something unique, the buzz surrounding you will not nearly be as much and only some teams may be interested.

I guess I can’t speak in definitive terms not knowing multiple in your situation but I think you should finish your medical training. The one person who I knew did this eventually gave up on medicine although they sold it publicly as if they’d lost interest. I suspect it was because they lost motivation, but also realized they were no longer a competitive applicant.

 

[Splenda88]

Does doing intern year first make it easier to get back into residency if that ends up being the path?

Probably not if you've been out for a few years (>5). But doing 1-yr internship makes you eligible for licensure in 34 states. Therefore, you will have the ability to make a living if things don't work out. You can open you cash practice, do disability eval, work in jail/prison, urgent care, health department, IHS etc...

 

[Dave1980]

Before this thread gets derailed, does anyone else think OP is making a mistake here?

OP, I won’t say you won’t match IM at a midtier institution and it’s not that consulting/finance will be a net negative as much as being 3 years out from clinical medicine.

Not to get dramatic, but the best way of thinking about it in my opinion is to consider it like the NFL draft. You’re a hot commodity out of college, you’ve got everyone’s attention, etc. If you decide to leave for 3 years even to do something unique, the buzz surrounding you will not nearly be as much and only some teams may be interested.

I guess I can’t speak in definitive terms not knowing multiple in your situation but I think you should finish your medical training. The one person who I knew did this eventually gave up on medicine although they sold it publicly as if they’d lost interest. I suspect it was because they lost motivation, but also realized they were no longer a competitive applicant.

I'm with you. Getting a residency after doing consulting will be extremely hard. There are more applicants than spots and this shows that the OP is not interested in clinical medicine.

OP also says "Doing consulting first will also help me decide what residency I'd want to do and whether or not I'd need a fellowship to achieve my career goals" which makes no sense.

If OP goes into business and never wants back into medicine they made a fine decision. If OP goes into business and finds it actually isn't their thing they will be f*cked.

 

[Redpancreas]

Probably not if you've been out for a few years (>5). But doing 1-yr internship makes you eligible for licensure in 34 states. Therefore, you will have the ability to make a living if things don't work out. You can open you cash practice, do disability eval, work in jail/prison, urgent care, health department, IHS etc...

Agree with this OP. With an intern year, your path to clinical medicine is still open as a US MD in 34 states albeit those are generally less-in-demand things (listed above) but still relatively high paying opportunities. I think it’s a vestigial remnant that physicians can be licensed and not board certified (completed residency/board passed) and it’s being phased out by governing bodies of these fields. I think the remnant serves those who ultimately had to leave clinical medicine after a year and can’t get back more than someone you plan to do ahead of time.

The problem with completing an intern year and leaving in your case would be that it would close even more doors for the future match because people would question your desire for clinical medicine altogether. If you do decide to just do intern year realize that you will be able to practice but in limited settings.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

In terms of the match, does MBB work in healthcare actually carry negative value? You'd think programs would be looking for strong innovative thinkers who can advance healthcare, right? And let's say it is tough to match but I do eventually match. Could I still get IM at a respectable mid-level academic institution or would I end up at some community hospital in the middle of nowhere?

Being in consulting isn't a negative for residency. But lack of clinical experience for a number of years will be. Clinical skills atrophy quickly. Once you've been away from clinical medicine for 3+ years, you're going to find it much more difficult to get a spot

 

[Redpancreas]

It all depends on your measure of intelligence. IQ is a very specific measure of problem-solving skills that in my experience, medical students often lack. Show them any data set or something with numbers and they freak. But show them a process to memorize and they will. The traditional med student intelligence has nothing to do with IQ. That's why you can have an average IQ and still be a great med student.

I think you’re holding a cynical view of the medical career I had during my preclinical years when all everything was about was memorizing XYZ. I think you’re forgetting several people did a variety of things before. Yes, these next two years are going to be learning a language/rote learning but afterwards it becomes more of a reasoning process. You’re not dealing with numbers but rather the human body and it’s condition.

 

[Redpancreas]

Being in consulting isn't a negative for residency. But lack of clinical experience for a number of years will be. Clinical skills atrophy quickly. Once you've been away from clinical medicine for 3+ years, you're going to find it much more difficult to get a spot

This is the deal in a nutshell OP.

 

[Lawpy]

Why not do consulting after finishing residency?

 

[Redpancreas]

Why not do consulting after finishing residency?

Because he doesn’t think he’d like residency and wants to do consulting. I’m just saying it’s gonna be difficult to get back and so he should be absolutely sure that that is what he wants to do.

It may also be helpful to hear some cases of people who have tried this since I haven’t. The problem is we are more likely to hear from someone who’s defied the odds, did this, and now wants to flex about it but at this point I’d rather hear that story than no story.

 

[Lawpy]

Because he doesn’t think he’d like residency and wants to do consulting. I’m just saying it’s gonna be difficult to get back and so he should be absolutely sure that that is what he wants to do.

It may also be helpful to hear some cases of people who have tried this since I haven’t. The problem is we are more likely to hear from someone who’s defied the odds, did this, and now wants to flex about it but at this point I’d rather hear that story than no story.

Might as well drop out of med school unless as it seems, the consulting firms want to see an MD degree

That said, i think their target audience are the top tier guys from HMS, Stanford, Penn, Columbia, JHU etc. Consulting firms are prestige addicts and school name matters a lot

 

[Lawpy]

I'll say a little more about where I'm coming from for this to make more sense. I've always been a math and physics guy, loved math and quantitative problem solving in high school / college and still do. I was an engineering major who didn't love the hands-on building things but loved setting up and solving problems. Meanwhile, I never liked my biology or humanities classes, just did well enough in them to get into med school. My dad and grandad are both doctors and very much so wanted me to become one. Every step along the way in my education, I would point out to them things I don't like about biology and medicine, and they'd convince me I was wrong and say it gets better. They also strongly discouraged me from taking a gap year to explore other interests. Eventually, after hearing that over and over again, I started to believe it and started to see things I really do enjoy within medicine. I also became very medically mission-driven due to things in my personal life. I love pharmacology and thinking through how an MOA can help people. But now at the end of M2 year, I'm realizing I was very naive and misguided, and most of what they told me was a lie just so they can make me be a doctor. I think I'd personally be much happier in tech or biotech where I'm in a more quantitative space surrounded by different people.

That being said, I'm in pretty deep in the medicine world, and one path I see forward is to just be a doctor to pay the bills. It's not the worst job in the world by any means, and I can find fulfillment in life elsewhere. But if I never look to the outside, I know I'll forever regret it, which is why I want to explore consulting. Both in the case that it does or doesn't work out, I'd like to retain the option to do residency. And why would consulting influence my decision of which specialty? Let's say right now my plan would be to do IM just to get out. But if I do consulting and realize wait, I really want to be a surgeon, or I really want to do IM + fellowship to accomplish a certain hybrid career goal or just because I want to actually be a doctor instead, I'd have much more clarity and peace with the decision.

If I do leave and decide to come back to medicine, I would make that decision within the first year or two. Is that shorter time line safer than 3+ years. If I stick with the business side 3+ years out of med school, likelihood I'd want to return to medicine would be very low at that point.

Consulting firms definitely want to hire for the MD, and starting salary is double. And after meeting docs from these firms, a good half of them come from mid-tier med schools. I went to a top-tier undergrad, so on the prestige front, I think I'm good enough.

As a heads up, there are a lot of math and physics stuff in medicine. It's just isn't clear in med school

I also think coming back to medicine is easier when doing consulting after residency than after med school because you don't have to waste time persuading orthodox "medicine is a calling" PDs to take you back in

But ok the top tier undergrad would help

 

[Redpancreas]

I'll say a little more about where I'm coming from for this to make more sense. I've always been a math and physics guy, loved math and quantitative problem solving in high school / college and still do. I was an engineering major who didn't love the hands-on building things but loved setting up and solving problems. Meanwhile, I never liked my biology or humanities classes, just did well enough in them to get into med school. My dad and grandad are both doctors and very much so wanted me to become one. Every step along the way in my education, I would point out to them things I don't like about biology and medicine, and they'd convince me I was wrong and say it gets better. They also strongly discouraged me from taking a gap year to explore other interests. Eventually, after hearing that over and over again, I started to believe it and started to see things I really do enjoy within medicine. I also became very medically mission-driven due to things in my personal life. I love pharmacology and thinking through how an MOA can help people. But now at the end of M2 year, I'm realizing I was very naive and misguided, and most of what they told me was a lie just so they can make me be a doctor. I think I'd personally be much happier in tech or biotech where I'm in a more quantitative space surrounded by different people.

That being said, I'm in pretty deep in the medicine world, and one path I see forward is to just be a doctor to pay the bills. It's not the worst job in the world by any means, and I can find fulfillment in life elsewhere. But if I never look to the outside, I know I'll forever regret it, which is why I want to explore consulting. Both in the case that it does or doesn't work out, I'd like to retain the option to do residency. And why would consulting influence my decision of which specialty? Let's say right now my plan would be to do IM just to get out. But if I do consulting and realize wait, I really want to be a surgeon, or I really want to do IM + fellowship to accomplish a certain hybrid career goal or just because I want to actually be a doctor instead, I'd have much more clarity and peace with the decision.

If I do leave and decide to come back to medicine, I would make that decision within the first year or two. Is that shorter time line safer than 3+ years. If I stick with the business side 3+ years out of med school, likelihood I'd want to return to medicine would be very low at that point.

Consulting firms definitely want to hire for the MD, and starting salary is double. And after meeting docs from these firms, a good half of them come from mid-tier med schools. I went to a top-tier undergrad, so on the prestige front, I think I'm good enough.

I’m not going to lie. I’m sure with your background you’re very adept at problem solving but I think your post comes off with an overly critical perspective on medicine and a romanticized take on consulting.

How would you use the physics/problem solving/analytical background in consulting more than you would in medicine?

You’ve finished M2. At this point medicine is going to seem algorithmic with rote-memorization and you’re going to be thinking things like why a computer can’t just store all this information.

 

[Dave1980]

That being said, I'm in pretty deep in the medicine world, and one path I see forward is to just be a doctor to pay the bills. It's not the worst job in the world by any means, and I can find fulfillment in life elsewhere.

Many of us are in this boat. I'm a radiologist and I like it well enough but the time off and money I make is really amazing and unless you are top of the food chain in business or law you won't even get close to it. I find fulfillment in my family, travel, and trolling people on the internet.

But if I do consulting and realize wait, I really want to be a surgeon, or I really want to do IM + fellowship to accomplish a certain hybrid career goal or just because I want to actually be a doctor instead, I'd have much more clarity and peace with the decision.

You won't find this out in consulting. You will find this out in preclinical or clinical rotations. You seem like a smart guy. Why would you think you won't figure this out while rotating though the specialties with actual practicing doctors but will figure it out while crunching numbers and working as a consultant??!?!??!

 

[Lawpy]

This thread is more support for 1 yr preclinical model. I can understand the case to go nonclinical after really hating a year of clinical medicine. But 2 yrs of preclinical are straight up agonizing torture

 

[shouldvestudied]

I'll say a little more about where I'm coming from for this to make more sense. I've always been a math and physics guy, loved math and quantitative problem solving in high school / college and still do. I was an engineering major who didn't love the hands-on building things but loved setting up and solving problems.

What makes you think you're going to get any appreciable math/physics/problem-solving in consulting? You will be making spreadsheets and power-point presentations as a junior and then, if you don't wash out, you might get to evaluate the business implications of potential therapeutics/technologies. At no point will you be doing advanced math, engineering, or scientific discovery. You will be on the sidelines advising actual innovators on how to bring products to market.

 

[Redpancreas]

This thread is more support for 1 yr preclinical model. I can understand the case to go nonclinical after really hating a year of clinical medicine. But 2 yrs of preclinical are straight up agonizing torture

Agreed. This is yet another reason for why we need to have earlier clinical integration in medical school and that includes a 1 year preclinical model.

 

[meddev]

Many of us are in this boat. I'm a radiologist and I like it well enough but the time off and money I make is really amazing and unless you are top of the food chain in business or law you won't even get close to it. I find fulfillment in my family, travel, and trolling people on the internet.




You won't find this out in consulting. You will find this out in preclinical or clinical rotations. You seem like a smart guy. Why would you think you won't figure this out while rotating though the specialties with actual practicing doctors but will figure it out while crunching numbers and working as a consultant??!?!??!

Consulting would help me identify which precise space within the healthcare and biotech world I would want to operate, and specialty is just one a part of that equation. That's a broader question than just which specialty do you want to do.

 

[Splenda88]

You will find something you like enough that is tolerable for you to do a residency in during clerkship.

 

[Redpancreas]

What you all are saying does give me a lot of hope that it gets better. I just have a hard time seeing it, and I really hope I change my mind in 3rd year. It would make everything MUCH easier lol. However, I did a short consulting program at one of the MBB firms where they just dumped a bunch of charts and data at us, asked us to figure out what's going on, and make a reccomendation. As someone who loves statistics, I loved this exercise. And if I could do this at a high level in biotech, I think I would love it exponentially more than I would enjoy clinical medicine. And I really don't want to be stuck in academia writing grants all day, and I generally don't like the set-up of academic research, so that's not an option either.

Consulting itself isn't a long term solution. But many consultants with prior backgrounds in a technical field go on to incredibly interesting intersectional roles at early stage biotech companies or as VC investors where they can think broadly and apply the type of thinking that I enjoy (i.e. Chief Innovation Officer). Will it be the same as physics? No, but I think that type of thinking is more prevalent in that space than it is in medicine. Every MD turned consultant has told me they enjoyed consulting way more than they did medicine from an intellectual stand point so I'll take their word as they're the one's who've done both. That being said, I'm not completely anti-medicine, and I could definitely have a future in it. I just think consulting may realistically be a better option and I want to explore it to assess for myself. I think there's nothing wrong with that.

The other thing to add is that I'm relatively mediocre I think at memorizing facts, taking med school tests, Step 1 etc. and that'll define my intelligence and worth in medicine. However, I'm relatively much smarter in the quant problem solving space and see more potential for myself. I hope I'm completely off base in thinking that a mediocre (likely 230-240 step score) that doesn't reflect my actual intellectual strength will define my residency admissions, but seems like it will. Just another reason for me to play the game I'm good at rather than trying to excel in an area I'm not the best at.

1.) They'll ask you to do that bolded exercise, but then there's no right or wrong answers or guidance. I have close friends who are in very prominent roles in corporations who work in litigation/crash departments for MVAs who oftentimes see consultants work pulled from articles drawn in 1990s to assert their claims. The consultant's strength is in their educational pedigree, not the validity of their work. Think before you decide what side you want to play for.

2.) How far did these medical students/MDs turned consultants actually get before leaving school?

3.) I can see that medicine in a way has stripped you of your identity in a way as you consider yourself more of a math/physics/problem solving guy and now you feel medicine is algorithmic/memorizing. I encourage you to first get through medical school, find a residency, and learn to practice medicine if you really feel like it's not for you...explore other avenues. There is also tons of room for innovation in medicine in the future.

I can see you're leaning towards consulting. It's difficult because it sounds like your dad also had a major role in getting you to choose medicine. I get the family pressure and how you want to be your own person. I just don't think consulting is the place you're going to find all this. but I don't really have much else to say. Best of luck to whatever you decide. Please come back and provide updates in the future on what happened and what your opinions are.

 

[pazzer2]

Two of my friends ended up at McKinsey after medical school. One finished residency, and the other didn't. Both of them were eventually pushed out after 2 years. They have an 'up or out' culture. And if you don't make the cut, they will transition you out of the firm. My friend was able to find a residency after being out for 5 years. He was a Harvard Med School grad, so maybe not typical. I've been out of residency for 25 years, so I'm not sure why others feel that getting back into a residency after doing consulting would be so difficult. But maybe things have changed since I went thru the match.

The other main thing is that management consulting is highly dependent on pedigree. If you're not at a ivy+ med school, it will be difficult. The consultants will place a lot of value on how you answer the case review questions during interview. They want to understand how you think. As an engineer, I'm sure you'll do fine. They also want people who they can put in front of C-suite clients. A nerdy bookworm is not what they want. So being highly polished is important. The work is demanding, but no more so than a residency. A lot of people burn out.

Have a plan in place in case you don't stay in consulting. What are your exit opportunities? Another consulting job? MBA? Residency? Start-up? VC?