Consulting

[Lawpy]

Two of my friends ended up at McKinsey after medical school. One finished residency, and the other didn't. Both of them were eventually pushed out after 2 years. They have an 'up or out' culture. And if you don't make the cut, they will transition you out of the firm. My friend was able to find a residency after being out for 5 years. He was a Harvard Med School grad, so maybe not typical. I've been out of residency for 25 years, so I'm not sure why others feel that getting back into a residency after doing consulting would be so difficult. But maybe things have changed since I went thru the match.

The other main thing is that management consulting is highly dependent on pedigree. If you're not at a ivy+ med school, it will be difficult. The consultants will place a lot of value on how you answer the case review questions during interview. They want to understand how you think. As an engineer, I'm sure you'll do fine. They also want people who they can put in front of C-suite clients. A nerdy bookworm is not what they want. So being highly polished is important. The work is demanding, but no more so than a residency. A lot of people burn out.

Have a plan in place in case you don't stay in consulting. What are your exit opportunities? Another consulting job? MBA? Residency? Start-up? VC?

Geez that sounds a lot worse than i thought.

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[meddev]

1.) They'll ask you to do that bolded exercise, but then there's no right or wrong answers or guidance. I have close friends who are in very prominent roles in corporations who work in litigation/crash departments for MVAs who oftentimes see consultants work pulled from articles drawn in 1990s to assert their claims. The consultant's strength is in their educational pedigree, not the validity of their work. Think before you decide what side you want to play for.

2.) How far did these medical students/MDs turned consultants actually get before leaving school?

3.) I can see that medicine in a way has stripped you of your identity in a way as you consider yourself more of a math/physics/problem solving guy and now you feel medicine is algorithmic/memorizing. I encourage you to first get through medical school, find a residency, and learn to practice medicine if you really feel like it's not for you...explore other avenues. There is also tons of room for innovation in medicine in the future.

I can see you're leaning towards consulting. It's difficult because it sounds like your dad also had a major role in getting you to choose medicine. I get the family pressure and how you want to be your own person. I just don't think consulting is the place you're going to find all this. but I don't really have much else to say. Best of luck to whatever you decide. Please come back and provide updates in the future on what happened and what your opinions are.

That's a good way to look at it. I appreciate the response. I'll keep an open mind during rotations and see what comes of it. The docs that went into consulting have all exited into high level strategy or investing roles in biotech and seem immensely happier in that line of work than pure clinical medicine. But like you suggest, I need to experience more to really make a more educated decision.

 

[pazzer2]

And when I do leave or get pushed out, I'd like to go to VC/HF in biotech.

If you have a good pedigree (Ivy league undergrad and/or med school), along with 4 years of MBB experience, this will put you in a good position for VC/HF. VC is still tough to land a position, but possible with networking. If you don't have pedigree background, then please stop and pause. Many VC firms are so snobbish they won't bother looking at resumes of non Ivy+ graduates.

Being pushed out by MBB is not necessarily a bad thing. Not everyone wants to become partner. From what my friend told me, MBB does this to keep fresh talent, and also to make the their alumni network more powerful. The alumni network is also very good -- many end up in high profile jobs.

If you are US MD, with high board scores and good grades, I see no reason why a 4 year stint after medical school would prohibit you from entering the match later on down the line. You'd need to explain why you left medicine, and why consulting was not the right decision. It sounds like you are intelligent enough to explain this. In fact I think this would help you stand out of the pack.

 

[ZenArcher35]

Chiming in as a top 5-med school grad who interned at an MBB and considered the full-time offer vs. residency.

Tdlr: I chose residency, although that might not make sense for you.

I only briefly skimmed this thread, so I may be repeating some of what has already been said, but what Redpancreas has said is largely stuff I’d agree with.

From what advisors have said, and what my experience has been:
1) Competitiveness to residency atrophies with time since graduation (as do your clinical skills) much faster than you think - you can get auto-screened out by most programs just via this lone factor - your app might not even get to human eyes if this happens, and this is what I was told even with my aforementioned pedigree.

2) Time is short. I get the whole grass is greener thing, and ivy league types have a tendancy to be non-committal in life, in hopes/thinking that some better opportunity is around the corner - and we love insurance plans, things you can default on that are still “top-tier” or whatever, so that you basically can’t fail. Let me tell you that in your mid-20s-30s, this type is thinking is just going to stunt you. It’s totally fine to have a windy career path, but you should be looking forward and committing in one direction at any one time. Acknowledging that I just blasted insurance plans, this is what I would do if I were you: Take a year off medical school and delay graduation (solving problem #1, so kind of acts like insurance, but not with the same mentality) - the goal is to use the year to finalize what direction is best for you (just spend time talking to a lot of people) and to see if any real/viable opportunities are there. If it works out, ditch medicine and don’t look back. If it doesn’t work out, then continue with graduation as currently planned. Don’t commit to a multi-year path that you aren’t sure you want (referring to either residency or the consulting->VC/HF route). You need to acknowledge that going down the business route is much, much higher-risk, but if you aren’t willing to be risk-tolerant, you may not be the right type for high-level business - but if a real opportunity is there and you want it, then nothing wrong to go for it.

 

[pazzer2]

The typical path for VC involves tier 1 education (Ivy League, Stanford, MIT, etc) followed by work experience. Having a second Tier 1 degree (MBA, JD) always helps. The work experience most valued is starting your own business and creating a successful product. Although even working in a failed startup is also valuable. With your background as an engineer plus MD would make a good fit for healthcare focused VCs. But I'm not sure a non-target undergrad plus top 50 med school would get much traction.

The MBB experience will certainly be valued, but you're going to be competing against people with 2 Ivy league degrees plus 4.0 GPA and solid work experience. It won't be impossible, but it will be difficult. I urge you to connect with some VCs on LinkedIn and ask them. You'll quickly find that its very difficult to break into VC.

I don't know much about HF recruiting, but I've heard that its not as tough as VC. You should def checkout the forums at Wall Street Oasis.

 

[Mass Effect]

Really depends what school you go to. I'm at a T10 and we have a few students every year (with no prior business experience) go work directly for big consulting firms instead of residency.

It's not a waste if you're outearning a doctor and not having to deal with the headaches of medicine forever. There are very few good entries into top consulting, so any road is a good road and not a waste

I never understood the draw of consulting, beyond better lifestyle than many fields in medicine. But do they actually outearn doctors too?

 

[meddev]

I never understood the draw of consulting, beyond better lifestyle than many fields in medicine. But do they actually outearn doctors too?

Only the best outearn. At a post MD level in consulting, you'll make like 220k - 400k annually over the course of your career, right on par with academic non-surgical specialties.

 

[Mass Effect]

Only the best outearn. At a post MD level in consulting, you'll make like 220k - 400k annually over the course of your career, right on par with academic non-surgical specialties.

So what's the draw? There are medical specialties with a good lifestyle who make that range. Is it just dislike for clinical duties?

 

[meddev]

So what's the draw? There are medical specialties with a good lifestyle who make that range. Is it just dislike for clinical duties?

Ya pretty much. As hard as it is to believe for many doctors, those who go into consulting, vc, entrepreneurship, etc. genuinely find it more intellectually stimulating and enjoyable than clinical medicine.

 

[Mad Jack]

So what's the draw? There are medical specialties with a good lifestyle who make that range. Is it just dislike for clinical duties?

Zero liability, working on complicated projects, excellent mid and late-career opportunities, lots of travel, living the executive life instead of the on call life, international assignments, etc. There's a lot of good about it, and if you work your way to partner you can make a killing.

 

[pazzer2]

If intellectual stimulation is what you're after, you should consider looking at a career in the pharma industry. After finishing my residency, I've been working in pharma R&D for 20+ years. Very intellectually stimulating without all of the headaches of clinical practice. 9-5 hours, no weekends, no calls. Initially the pay is lower compared to some subspecialties, but over time with stocks/options the pay is very lucrative. Upward progression is very predictable.

 

[efle]

The intellectual grass is always greener. STEM research is supposed to be intellectually stimulating, until you find out for every 1 day of experiment design or data interpretation there are dozens of days of rote chart reviewing or experiment troubleshooting, IRB and other paperwork, and that most projects end up with minor findings that will get read by like five people. Clinical medicine is supposed to be intellectually stimulating, but turns out to be a lot of memorizing, pattern recognition, and guidelines and only sometimes has interesting diagnostic reasoning. From what I heard from my friend who went into biomed consulting for a few years after college and then left, it's a lot of preparing slide decks and endless meetings. My SO works at FAANG and overhearing her meetings often makes me wonder how they resist the urge to jam their pencils in their ears.

At some point we gotta accept that work sucks, there's no job that pays you fat stacks to use your noodle all day like we did in full time college science coursework. Highly compensated lifestyle fields in medicine are a really, really good deal. You have to HATE everything along the spectrum from outpatient to inpatient to surgical to rads/path for leaving to make sense.

Just my somewhat pessimistic .02, I often wondered about alternatives myself. Several of my classmates did exit to things like computer science and hospital admin type work, but staying the course on the ROAD more travelled makes more sense to me.

 

[Lawpy]

staying the course on the ROAD more travelled makes more sense to me.

I support the efle pun

 

[Iamnew2]

Two of my friends ended up at McKinsey after medical school. One finished residency, and the other didn't. Both of them were eventually pushed out after 2 years. They have an 'up or out' culture. And if you don't make the cut, they will transition you out of the firm. My friend was able to find a residency after being out for 5 years. He was a Harvard Med School grad, so maybe not typical. I've been out of residency for 25 years, so I'm not sure why others feel that getting back into a residency after doing consulting would be so difficult. But maybe things have changed since I went thru the match.

The other main thing is that management consulting is highly dependent on pedigree. If you're not at a ivy+ med school, it will be difficult. The consultants will place a lot of value on how you answer the case review questions during interview. They want to understand how you think. As an engineer, I'm sure you'll do fine. They also want people who they can put in front of C-suite clients. A nerdy bookworm is not what they want. So being highly polished is important. The work is demanding, but no more so than a residency. A lot of people burn out.

Have a plan in place in case you don't stay in consulting. What are your exit opportunities? Another consulting job? MBA? Residency? Start-up? VC?

I think this is good sound advice/reasoning. A lot of these companies will get rid of you if you don't perform to their standards. Consulting can be rough. Despite all the complaining that we do as physicians, it is hard to beat the pay, even if we can screwed here and there. It takes much more negotiating than before but stil doable - even in equity based groups.

 

[Iamnew2]

I feel like I keep saying the same thing and seems like this is one interpretation of the consensus, but I definitely see the value in residency. However, I also see value in not doing it if you can be successful without it, you'd save a few years and net an extra 500k and I could have close to a 7 figure net worth in the same time that I'd finish 6 years of training if I saved.

The way I see it, there's minor but not major harm in doing 1-2 years of consulting after med school. If I get cut or I don't like it, I'm not too far removed from med school to be competitive for residency. If I like and I get really good exit offers, then signs are that I'll do well without residency and I saved myself 3-6 years and started earning real money at a younger age. I see some but no significant downside in giving the consulting world a try before ultimately making the final decision 1-2 years after graduation of quitting medicine for good or not. The added benefit of consulting first vs residency first, is that I'd go into residency set on doing IM and leaving asap in 3 years. Through consulting though, I could get added clarity that a fellowship or non-IM residency might be a better option for me, and I could end up doing that. Especially since I'm pretty certain that rotations are just going to point me towards IM and no fellowship at this rate. If I do end up coming back to residency later, I lost a couple of years but I'm young and didn't gap year anyways so it's not the end of the world plus I gained valuable personal experience.

With the way the match is going these days, being out of med school for a few years will likely make matching hard. You can certainly try consulting and see if you like it, for all you know you might love it, be great at it and never need to do residency. However as others have mentioned consulting is a high pressure field where you get thrown out if you dont' perform. If that were to be the case, getting into residency will be challenging. If I were you I'd do residency and if you hate it then you can always do consulting. Just a thought.

 

[efle]

I'd take the alternative view - you're risking the quality of your match and the opportunity to make 2-3 yrs attending salary (well north of 1MM in something like good private rads/gas practice). Your reward would be sampling a field notorious for its burnout and that many people exit INTO medicine (I have multiple classmates here at my "top" med school that came in from BCG, wall street finance etc). On top of all this you havent actually rotated in person with any of the medical specialties youd consider. You're basically taking a very dangerous leap of faith because preclinicals were lame and you think consulting sounds interesting.

I'm a fairly risk averse individual so maybe it's my personal bias, but that sounds like a tough sell to me.

 

[Iamnew2]

I'd take the alternative view - you're risking the quality of your match and the opportunity to make 2-3 yrs attending salary (well north of 1MM in something like good private rads/gas practice). Your reward would be sampling a field notorious for its burnout and that many people exit INTO medicine (I have multiple classmates here at my "top" med school that came in from BCG, wall street finance etc). On top of all this you havent actually rotated in person with any of the medical specialties youd consider. You're basically taking a very dangerous leap of faith because preclinicals were lame and you think consulting sounds interesting.

I'm a fairly risk averse individual so maybe it's my personal bias, but that sounds like a tough sell to me.

I'd agree. I think just like a lot of pre-meds view the practice of medicine with rose colored glasses, consulting particularly given the woes of medicine is viewed in this idealized scenario. consulting is not for the faint of heart. as doctors particularly once settled into a position life can be very comfortable. consulting will always be high stress. sure it can be super rewarding both professionally and financially for those who make it to the top and are good at it.
but ultimately it's the op's decision. if the consulting route is taken and doesn't work out, it might be hard to make the return to medicine.

best of luck in your decision op.

 

[Iamnew2]

This is all good info, definitely not going to rush into any rash decision. I'll keep an open mind and see how 3rd year plays out. May also consider a business gap year before 4th to keep matching a viable option while still doing some soul searching. Kind of also sounds like working in general sucks, and nothing's as cool as things seem when you're a college student, so the best bet might just be to go for the safest, highest paying, best lifestyle thing you can get, and look for fulfillment after that, whatever that may be.

Fulfillment, my friend, comes from the inside. No amount of money will make you "fulfilled."

 

[meddev]

Fulfillment, my friend, comes from the inside. No amount of money will make you "fulfilled."

Fulfillment to me right now means enjoying what I do, enjoying the people I'm around every day, and getting to use my brain in the ways I'd like. But obviously, that will change as I get older.

 

[efle]

Fulfillment to me right now means enjoying what I do, enjoying the people I'm around every day, and getting to use my brain in the ways I'd like. But obviously, that will change as I get older.

You nailed it. Working a gig that is tolerable where you see something interesting at least a few times per day, have fantastic job security, income well into the top 1%, insane amounts of vacation time (10+ weeks) and the ability to act as a businessman on the side is more than most get to dream of, even for Ivy plus alums. You can have all that as a partner in a small group practice in ROAD and some others.

 

[Iamnew2]

You nailed it. Working a gig that is tolerable where you see something interesting at least a few times per day, have fantastic job security, income well into the top 1%, insane amounts of vacation time (10+ weeks) and the ability to act as a businessman on the side is more than most get to dream of, even for Ivy plus alums. You can have all that as a partner in a small group practice in ROAD and some others.

10+ weeks is rare - even in ROADs. Also more and more private practice and partnership is becoming a thing of the past. private equity based firms buyng up practices adn even hospitals/mega type practices managed by business people are becoming the norm.

 

[efle]

10+ weeks is rare - even in ROADs. Also more and more private practice and partnership is becoming a thing of the past. private equity based firms buyng up practices adn even hospitals/mega type practices managed by business people are becoming the norm.

Yeah I'd been hearing that working employed for PE owned groups was on the rise but that physician owned still existed. The vacation weeks might be more in rads, but theres other ways to keep it cushy in the others too (working 4 days/week in outpatient derm, mommy track anesthesia that goes home at 3pm)

 

[Iamnew2]

Yeah I'd been hearing that working employed for PE owned groups was on the rise but that physician owned still existed. The vacation weeks might be more in rads, but theres other ways to keep it cushy in the others too (working 4 days/week in outpatient derm, mommy track anesthesia that goes home at 3pm)

Yeah this is all very idealized. Not so much in real life

 

[Iamnew2]

Wouldnt it be nice to be one of those business people calling the shots? Also medicine seemed like a sure-fire great career for the prior generation, but the uncertainty for my generation is kind of scary.

But ya, I see your point of how you can make medicine nice too and still do business stuff that interests you. I know I won't find it fulfilling long term, but the idea of being a consulting, getting flown places, fancy dinners and solving mega level problems still does sound amazing, and it's not something you'll ever find in medicine. Is it worth taking a gap year in between 3rd and 4th just to do that and also to use it as a mini MBA to learn business stuff? I feel like if I wait till after residency, I won't have that energy anymore, I'll be older, etc.

Again i think the fancy dinners, flying around the country, etc seems far more idealized than it truly is. This is a young person's game. my own brother who was in engineering type consulting got exhausted from flying aroudn the country, having to take customers out for dinner, etc. it's nice for a brief time. after you get older, have a family, kids, it's much more difficult and annoying. taking time between 3rd adn 4th year i think makes far more sense. you can try for an internship at like mckinsey or something like that and see. i would see the day in and day out before you idealize too much.

 

[Splenda88]

Flexibility is not bad in medicine... If you are someone who likes to have nice dinners all the time, you can go to these BIG PHARMA drug/device events. Got invited to a lot of them as resident.

How many fields out there that one can work 1 wk every month and have 3 wks off in row and still command 150-200k/yr? Not many.

 

[babagandu2424]

Before this thread gets derailed, does anyone else think OP is making a mistake here?

OP, I won’t say you won’t match IM at a midtier institution and it’s not that consulting/finance will be a net negative as much as being 3 years out from clinical medicine.

Not to get dramatic, but the best way of thinking about it in my opinion is to consider it like the NFL draft. You’re a hot commodity out of college, you’ve got everyone’s attention, etc. If you decide to leave for 3 years even to do something unique, the buzz surrounding you will not nearly be as much and only some teams may be interested.

I guess I can’t speak in definitive terms not knowing multiple in your situation but I think you should finish your medical training. The one person who I knew did this eventually gave up on medicine although they sold it publicly as if they’d lost interest. I suspect it was because they lost motivation, but also realized they were no longer a competitive applicant.

OP isn’t making a mistake if he sees himself as providing value on the other side of the medical/healthcare space. An advanced science degree provides a fairly translatable objective skill set that a lot of consulting/finance firms see value in. If someone wants to leverage their therapeutic/clinical skills and go macro with their healthcare career then these careers offer an extremely lucrative and broad coverage area. Not to mention your exit opportunities will be top notch with an MD and tier 1/2 consulting, or decent finance firm. Think biotech, hedge fund/venture capital, private equity, etc.

I’m going to get flamed for this, but having an MD, or PhD, heck even a PharmD in some situations, coupled with a somewhat deep understanding of healthcare, business, and some charisma, can make for a pretty hot candidate in any of these high paying fields…. And you’ll be making way more than a physician if you play your cards right. Just gotta pair it with some good networking!

Btw, my goal here is to simply say this is both feasible and rewarding (monetary and career progression wise). And I can speak for myself and others in my network that have transitioned into all sorts of positions followed their advanced degrees. Feel free to shoot me a message if you want!

P.S. OP you should realize this isn’t a great forum to post this as it’s a path many don’t know about and therefore automatically push away. To say it’s financially a bad decision is comical. You have real opps to make generational wealth here and make an impact in healthcare at a very high level, just not direct patient care.

 

[Dave1980]

My point exactly and why consulting is never in my long term goals. It's cool for a couple years in your 20s but you'd never want to do it after that.

I hope you come back and let us know what you chose in the end.

I will say that doing consulting for a few years then going back to residency just prolongs the amount of time you are dealing with the **** that goes along with being bottom of the ladder. You are basically going to work like a dog and build up sweat equity in business then bail and lose it all just to start over as an intern.

It will be a financial loss if you end up going into clinical medicine.

@_doctor_ Have you considered Radiology? We don't see patients, deal with insurance, have to worry about paperwork. It's a decently intellectual field and you are using your brain at least a few times during the day. If you want a challenge you can always learn cardiac MRI or some other super specialized thing and be the "cardiac MRI guy" for your practice.

 

[Redpancreas]

I’m going to get flamed for this

I will say SDN (as a collective including me) is not the best for advice when it comes to carving out your own niche as it’s full of people who’ve done things by the book.

That said, there’s really nothing novel
in your post to flame. You recite platitudes like “lucrative”, “consulting”, “business-savvy”, “play your cards right” etc. but don’t uncover anything interesting to be frank. I think a business savvy high school graduate can enter consulting and play their cards right and it’s a lucrative path to generational wealth. There I used all the words. OTOH, maybe you’re keeping it private. Initially I had some hope for this thread thinking we were finally going to get an overview of exit strategies but all I hear is the same as above. Feel free to elaborate if you’re comfortable.

 

[Iamnew2]

I'll update this thread as I move along in my career. I'll be 25 when I graduate med school, so I'm pretty young and have time to explore. I know there's a financial cost to spending a couple of extra years trying stuff out but in the grand scheme of things in life, If I can try something out that I think I would like better, regardless of the outcome, I'll be happier because I won't have to live with the regret of not trying. Also, the consulting salary out of med school is 200k+, so it's not as bad as a research gap year.

I do agree that you should try for what you want even if you later decide to do something else - otherwise you'd be regretting things. in that regards good for you. i dont think that the consulting salary out of med school is 200k. just fyi.

 

[<(^_^)>]

I'll update this thread as I move along in my career. I'll be 25 when I graduate med school, so I'm pretty young and have time to explore. I know there's a financial cost to spending a couple of extra years trying stuff out but in the grand scheme of things in life, If I can try something out that I think I would like better, regardless of the outcome, I'll be happier because I won't have to live with the regret of not trying. Also, the consulting salary out of med school is 200k+, so it's not as bad as a research gap year.

I think you may be underestimating how much taking a few years off will impact your chances of matching. As a general rule PDs are not looking for someone that might be inclined to “explore” when the going gets tough and regardless of whether that’s applicable to you that is what they will be worried about.

It’s great you went to a top undergrad, but it’s terrible you went to what BCG et al. would consider a no-name medical school. These people are used to most people coming from Harvard, Stanford, etc. Baylor? Emory? Long shot. University of Cincinnati? Good luck. The focus on name brand is HUGE and a “top 50” (which lets be real means 20+) is a huge detriment. About 1/3 of Stanford med grads don’t even bother with residency, and they are the ones you will be competing in the “winner takes all” world of finance. Are you up for the challenge?

I also think you may be underestimating how quickly fields that aren’t too competitive are becoming rather competitive. Medical schools have outgrown residency slots and we are now seeing the squeeze and it will probably be worse in a few years. You’ll still be able to match to an IM program, just don’t assume you’ll go onto cardiology afterward.

I do agree that you should try for what you want even if you later decide to do something else - otherwise you'd be regretting things. in that regards good for you. i dont think that the consulting salary out of med school is 200k. just fyi.

It’s actually a bit more (though you’ll put in a lot of hours). It’s a young man’s game. Someone else mentioned “up or out” culture and that’s very true. No one is a consultant for 10 years, just like no one is an intern for 10 years. It’s a stepping stone to something else. For the majority that will be a substantial step down in $, with a substantial reduction in hours. You see this a lot with law as well. For some consultants (maybe 10-20%) they will step up into various opportunities like PE/VC (which yes, can make millions), but ironically might not be as interesting as consulting is to OP.

OP: only you know what makes the most sense for you. I doubt it would be the end of the world if you went into consulting, and maybe one day we will see you on the cover of Forbes. That said, I would encourage you to think about finishing your residency in your preferred field. It’s only a few years and then split your time between clinical and business interests. There are plenty of medical device companies, electronic medical record companies etc. that may allow you to scratch that “itch” for creativity without giving up the security a career in medicine offers.

 

[meddev]

I do agree that you should try for what you want even if you later decide to do something else - otherwise you'd be regretting things. in that regards good for you. i dont think that the consulting salary out of med school is 200k. just fyi.

At the top firms, it's 165 base, 230 total comp

 

[Dave1980]

At the top firms, it's 165 base, 230 total comp

source?

 

[meddev]

source?

Management Consultant Salary Report

Salary data from real offers - updated annually! See 2024 consultant salary data for McKinsey, BCG, Bain, Big 4 firms, and over 90 more!

managementconsulted.com

 

[Iamnew2]

At the top firms, it's 165 base, 230 total comp

Not trying to dissuade you, trust me on this but I do think you have to go in with realistic expectations. It's unlikely that the salary even at top firms is this much. Maybe 120's plus bonus. While I agree that long term if you make it into the top exec type C suite areas it's very profitable most people don't make it to the top and as a result most docs end up making about the same or less than they would in medicine. Again not dissuading you - you are young and do indeed have plenty of time to decide. It's just important to go in with eyes wide open. My former spouse works at a major firm and it's taken him about 10 or so years to get to that base plus bonus. Just saying. He's got a PhD from a major university and an MBA from a major university too.

 

[Iamnew2]

I completely understand the security factor, and I'm not underestimating it. I'll go into 3rd year with an open mind and I really do hope I come to enjoy medicine for that reason. It's the easiest and most secure path. But if I end up not finding anything that I can even tolerate, I think the risk-reward equation shifts a little toward taking the risk in hopes I land back into an intellectual space that makes me happy.

In terms of the prestige, yes most people are from Harvard, Stanford, Penn etc. but a number of MDs I've talked to are actually from "no name" schools. They're far less selective when it comes to MD prestige. Any US MD basically gets your foot in the door. It's your other experiences that get you in if you're not from Harvard.

In terms of up-or-out and salary at the post MBA/PhD/MD level, it's not that bad. From my networking calls, it seems like if you want to make manager, you can. The people who don't make it leave mostly by choice. Managers make 300k and they exit into industry at similar salaries with 5% raises after that. And there's the chance for mega millions in PE. It's nnot as risky as most people think.,

I do think you should go for it - at the end of the day, if you can't match, and there certainly is that risk, you will never have the regret of saying I didn't try this! For example I really wanted to do a pain fellowship. I did it. I have ultimately not used it and have no regrets about not using it. I make prob far more in a less stressful environment than had I decided to do an interventional route. But I'm glad I did it because otherwise I would have always been like umm I wonder what it would have been like? So I say go for it and update us with what's going on. I do think though the safest route is between 3-4 years. If you hate it, you can match with no problems. If you like it, you can just finish MD and not enter match.

 

[Dave1980]

Management Consultant Salary Report

Salary data from real offers - updated annually! See 2024 consultant salary data for McKinsey, BCG, Bain, Big 4 firms, and over 90 more!

managementconsulted.com

MBA & PhD base salaries to $165,000.

An MD isn't an MBA or a PhD in econ or finance. You should look into starting salaries out of undergrad.

 

[Iamnew2]

MBA & PhD base salaries to $165,000.

An MD isn't an MBA or a PhD in econ or finance. You should look into starting salaries out of undergrad.

Yes exactly, that's my point.

 

[Dave1980]

I don't want this to be an opinionated debate. MDs with or without residency get hired at the MBA/PhD level, and that's simply a fact.

says the guy who has taken a few phone calls with recruiters.

 

[Iamnew2]

I wouldn't jump unless I get an offer from a top 3 firm. The salary drop from the top 3 to other ones is huge. And the data I have is factually correct. I may also consider their felloship programs which are in between M3 and M4 year, and they pay 150k, again confirmed by someone I know who's doing it.

I do think the fellowship option is a really good idea - it allows you to take time between third and 4th years which if you do do medicine might be a good point to talk about and will make your app more interesting, or if you decide to stay in consulting well then it's a great foot in door.

 

[Iamnew2]

says the guy who has taken a few phone calls with recruiters.

I do think some recruiters are great at making statements that fall through and I"ve certainly experience this. I also agree that MD's with no residency likely don't get 165 plus bonus but hey OP should try and see regardless.

 

[Iamnew2]

What's your source? I'm literally interviewing for this position lol. Idk how you can say this so confidently

Out of curiosity did you apply directly or did they come to your med school? Which area of the country are you in?

 

[Dave1980]

I do think some recruiters are great at making statements that fall through and I"ve certainly experience this. I also agree that MD's with no residency likely don't get 165 plus bonus but hey OP should try and see regardless.

yea, don't believe it until its in writing. ive learned that the hard way

 

[Iamnew2]

yea, don't believe it until its in writing. ive learned that the hard way

Even in writing - it doesn't always come true!

 

[Dave1980]

Even in writing - it doesn't always come true!

lol

Thankfully I haven't had that happen to me (yet...knock on wood).

I did once call an interviewer to accept a verbal job offer and was told I wasn't actually offered the job. In retrospect it was a somewhat vague offer/statement like "we really like you and you are a strong candidate so please let us know if you want to join ASAP". Me being naïve thought that equaled a job offer. Embarrassing lesson learned that day.

 

[Iamnew2]

I applied

Well I say best wishes with the process! Let us know how it turns out! If you make it big give a shout out to SDN in the future!

 

[Iamnew2]

Lol everyone here is discouraging me / saying everything I've fact-checked is incorrect strictly by citing their opinion

I think most of us have been through the rodeo a time or two or more, and have been burned or seen others get burned so we want to share our wisdom. We do mean well. Hopefully it all works out for you!

 

[Splenda88]

OP seems to be passionate about that route; I think he/she will do well.

 

[mcat_taker]

What is it with medical students and consulting? Everyone I know couldn't wait to leave firms like McKinsey, BCG, Bain after a few years including my own brother. They work you insanely hard, the travel schedule can be brutal, and lots of advising and not much doing.

 

[efle]

What is it with medical students and consulting? Everyone I know couldn't wait to leave firms like McKinsey, BCG, Bain after a few years including my own brother. They work you insanely hard, the travel schedule can be brutal, and lots of advising and not much doing.

Especially since this is a preclinical student who hasnt seen what any actual medical careers look like yet

Assuming grass is greener in a field notorious for high exit rate when you havent tried your current MD options yet. Weird

 

[mcat_taker]

Also most people use big 3 consulting as a stepping stone to a job they actually want that isn't consulting. So OP would have to commit around 2 years to get value out of the BBM job/skills where they will be worked insanely hard and have a poor lifestyle only to get to their exit strategy which they may or may not like, which means delaying residency for at least 3 years.

For my brother this path was Ivy league undergrad --> BBM --> VC (where he is happy, has a good lifestyle, and makes doctor money as a 29 year old). For another friend this was BBM --> google (much better lifestyle).

Much harder to get into residency after that many years off. Many more options available once you finish residency.