Controversial/Argumentative Topics in Vet Med?

[turnandburn]

I'm a SA GP. I'm way out of my lane on this topic. But I admit freedom of movement is ethically really important to me. I have no problem with feedlots, dairies, etc, any other form of food animal production that allows animals to move about. But any sort of intensive confinement, such as the use of gestation crates, battery cages, veal crates, mink farms, etc, don't sit well ethically with me. I realize that group housing causes more injury, and probably disease and death, but what I imagine to be the mental suffering of those more intensive forms of confinement trouble me. I guess I'm not sure what the answer is, but I feel we can do better.

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[PippyPony]

I'm a SA GP. I'm way out of my lane on this topic. But I admit freedom of movement is ethically really important to me. I have no problem with feedlots, dairies, etc, any other form of food animal production that allows animals to move about. But any sort of intensive confinement, such as the use of gestation crates, battery cages, veal crates, mink farms, etc, don't sit well ethically with me. I realize that group housing causes more injury, and probably disease and death, but what I imagine to be the mental suffering of those more intensive forms of confinement trouble me. I guess I'm not sure what the answer is, but I feel we can do better.

Agree. Freedom to exhibit natural behaviors -- including sufficient space to do so -- is one of the five freedoms. It's also one of the reasons why I am against declawing.

Also agree that I don't know the answer but feel we should continually be striving for improvements.

 

[Dana_May_B]

Agree. Freedom to exhibit natural behaviors -- including sufficient space to do so -- is one of the five freedoms. It's also one of the reasons why I am against declawing.

Also agree that I don't know the answer but feel we should continually be striving for improvements.

The way current broiler houses are set up, in my opinion, is pretty great at letting the birds roam around to their hearts’ content. While battery cages are used in the laying industry and broiler breeder industry, which has some massive massive welfare issues that I can talk about at length if anyone wants to, the broiler (meat bird) industry is cage free. I remember the first time I stepped foot in a huge broiler house, with over 100,000 birds inside, and it seemed like there were just thousands and thousands of birds covering the floor of the house as far as the eye could see. A really overwhelming experience to say the least. As my classmates and I walked around, the birds stayed at least 10 feet away from us, and the chickens weren’t standing on top of each other or anything. I guess what I’ve been taught in my poultry classes is that if we were to have a small flock of birds in one of those massive houses, they would instinctively stay near each other as flock animals. So why not use the rest of the space? Laying hens and the broiler breeders however, and usually much more restricted in cages because we need to collect their eggs and that becomes much more challenging if they are running all over the place and laying their eggs wherever they feel like. Certainly agree that it’s not a great life to live, and I’d be the first person to support a new proposal that supports cheap egg production while bettering the lives of the birds.

 

[twelvetigers]

I'm a SA GP. I'm way out of my lane on this topic. But I admit freedom of movement is ethically really important to me. I have no problem with feedlots, dairies, etc, any other form of food animal production that allows animals to move about. But any sort of intensive confinement, such as the use of gestation crates, battery cages, veal crates, mink farms, etc, don't sit well ethically with me. I realize that group housing causes more injury, and probably disease and death, but what I imagine to be the mental suffering of those more intensive forms of confinement trouble me. I guess I'm not sure what the answer is, but I feel we can do better.

So, this is 100% off topic, but it's been picking at my brain for a little bit.

There was a turnandburn that was active more back when I first joined - like 2008-2013 or so - and I keep doing this weird double take with you. It's not just the username, which I understand to be some sort of barrel racing thing... it's that she also had Hobbes as her avatar. So it's like, freaking me out.

So like... it's you and you forgot your password or something?

 

[DVMDream]

So, this is 100% off topic, but it's been picking at my brain for a little bit.

There was a turnandburn that was active more back when I first joined - like 2008-2013 or so - and I keep doing this weird double take with you. It's not just the username, which I understand to be some sort of barrel racing thing... it's that she also had Hobbes as her avatar. So it's like, freaking me out.

So like... it's you and you forgot your password or something?

I've been under the assumption it is the same person but maybe I'm wrong...🤔🤔🤔

 

[turnandburn]

So, this is 100% off topic, but it's been picking at my brain for a little bit.

There was a turnandburn that was active more back when I first joined - like 2008-2013 or so - and I keep doing this weird double take with you. It's not just the username, which I understand to be some sort of barrel racing thing... it's that she also had Hobbes as her avatar. So it's like, freaking me out.

So like... it's you and you forgot your password or something?

Yes! I could not remember my password, and I was unable to reset it because the YAHOO email associated with the account was so old had been deactivated due to inactivity.

 

[twelvetigers]

I bet a mod could help you out, but it’s also not a big deal to start over either.

I like how there’s only 4-5 of us still around that would remember. Maybe a few more.

What made you come back after so long? Usually vets graduate and fall off the face of the earth. I could tag a bunch of people here but I won’t lol

 

[Lupin21]

I bet a mod could help you out, but it’s also not a big deal to start over either.

I like how there’s only 4-5 of us still around that would remember. Maybe a few more.

What made you come back after so long? Usually vets graduate and fall off the face of the earth. I could tag a bunch of people here but I won’t lol

I'd love to see who responds!!!

 

[turnandburn]

I bet a mod could help you out, but it’s also not a big deal to start over either.

I like how there’s only 4-5 of us still around that would remember. Maybe a few more.

What made you come back after so long? Usually vets graduate and fall off the face of the earth. I could tag a bunch of people here but I won’t lol

Who would I ask about something like that?

Honestly I don't know why! No particular reason. Just checking back in I guess! Maybe I can impart some wisdom on those seeking a career in vet med 🙂. The job market is SO DIFFERENT now compared to when I graduated in 2013. I'm envious of new grads 🙂

 

[battie]

I'm envious of new grads 🙂

I'm honestly so thankful for the job market for associates right now. With COVID and the economic fall out, I was flat terrified that the job market would tank for new grads.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I've been under the assumption it is the same person but maybe I'm wrong...🤔🤔🤔

Haha ditto

 

[twelvetigers]

Who would I ask about something like that?

Honestly I don't know why! No particular reason. Just checking back in I guess! Maybe I can impart some wisdom on those seeking a career in vet med 🙂. The job market is SO DIFFERENT now compared to when I graduated in 2013. I'm envious of new grads 🙂

@Lupin21 maybe? I can vouch for your previous existence! Hah.

I'm not 100% sure but it's worth asking. You can PM her or see if she wanders in here on her own. She keeps busy but does check in.

edit: I see she was here already... I guess you send a message to err, the helpdesk? Worth a shot

 

[twelvetigers]

Haha ditto

I wanted to make sure (and make sure I wasn't crazy). Hah

 

[battie]

The lady who proposed this bill is totally insane, it's farcical that Polis appointed her to the State Board of Veterinary Oversight

I went down this rabbit hole and now I'm legitimately concerned by the fact her obvious bias wasn't considered when she was appointed.

 

[turnandburn]

@Lupin21 maybe? I can vouch for your previous existence! Hah.

I'm not 100% sure but it's worth asking. You can PM her or see if she wanders in here on her own. She keeps busy but does check in.

edit: I see she was here already... I guess you send a message to err, the helpdesk? Worth a shot

Definitely worth a try! Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[turnandburn]

@Lupin21 maybe? I can vouch for your previous existence! Hah.

I'm not 100% sure but it's worth asking. You can PM her or see if she wanders in here on her own. She keeps busy but does check in.

edit: I see she was here already... I guess you send a message to err, the helpdesk? Worth a shot

Lee worked his magic 😎

I feel really old now 😳

 

[Trilt]

Lee worked his magic 😎

I feel really old now 😳

We are join date twins!

 

[turnandburn]

We are join date twins!

 

[Minnerbelle]

A topic that no one wants to talk about but is super important - the whiteness of this profession and the barriers to entry for POC.

reminded me when I came across this letter to the editor on javma “questioning racism”. Don’t be like this pathetic dude who felt the need to write to the editor that he resents the notion that there is systemic racism because a vast majority of his white colleagues are good and well intentioned. That’s not how it works. Glad the editor in chief had the sense to just shut it down.

Letters to the Editor

"Letters to the Editor" published on 01 May 2021 by American Veterinary Medical Association.

avmajournals.avma.org

 

[SnowJ]

A topic that no one wants to talk about but is super important - the whiteness of this profession and the barriers to entry for POC.

reminded me when I came across this letter to the editor on javma “questioning racism”. Don’t be like this pathetic dude who felt the need to write to the editor that he resents the notion that there is systemic racism because a vast majority of his white colleagues are good and well intentioned. That’s not how it works. Glad the editor in chief had the sense to just shut it down.

Letters to the Editor

"Letters to the Editor" published on 01 May 2021 by American Veterinary Medical Association.

avmajournals.avma.org

I'm on the board for the UMN VOICE (Veterinarians as One Inclusive Community for Empowerment) chapter and we've been discussing this a lot, especially over the past year. There are so many barriers that I would have never thought of if I didnt sit and listen to my POC classmates. It is amazing how blind people can be to the status quo.
This response is such a simple and powerful way to shut down the argument, I'm happy to see it!

 

[twelvetigers]

We are join date twins!

Y’all got like a month on me