controversial EC- list on AMCAS?

[Mistress S]

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I am debating whether or not to include in my AMCAS post-secondary experiences some political volunteer work I did during my first two years of college with NARAL (National Abortion Rights Action League). I mostly did tabling at events, it wasn't a major thing for me and when other time demands took over I became less involved. However, I don't have a lot of EC's (only 8 or 9) to list, so I am thinking about including it even though it wasn't something I spent a lot of time on. I have worked at a reproductive health center that provides abortions (among other services) for >6 years, so adcoms will see that about me anyway, as that is a major part of my app and my reasons for wanting to be a physician. I am proud to be pro-choice, and have no problem discussing this in an interview, but I'm not so sure if it's a good idea to highlight my involvement in a political organization that is so potentially controversial--I don't want to give the wrong impression to adcoms who may be uninformed about the work NARAL does (which is to maintain and expand reproductive health care rights including but not limited to abortion services, such as access to birth control and equitable health care for women, not to "promote abortions"). I would appreciate opinions from others (about including a controversial EC, NOT your opinions about abortion please--that is a tired debate on these boards that you can do a search on if you're interested).

 

[stinkycheese]

Any medical school that would reject you based on your work with reproductive healthcare and women's rights is a medical school that I would be leery of attending anyway. Make sure you put a good, non-politically charged description in the space provided.

 

[krebse]

I could be really ignorant but just how controversial is merely being associated with NARAL? Regardless, you're clearly proud of your beliefs, and if you're proud of what you did regarding NARAL, I don't see any reason not to put it down...if you're going to get passed over, it won't be because you had an indirect association with an org and some consider controversial...I'm putting down how much I love AMSA, but I know tons of physicians that can't stand the organization...not the same deal, I know, but I basically think you're fine...the better question is what are you going to say if you get asked about your involvement with that particuarl EC if you list it? That you tabled for two years? You admit you didn't get much out of it, do you really want to put it?

I am debating whether or not to include in my AMCAS post-secondary experiences some political volunteer work I did during my first two years of college with NARAL (National Abortion Rights Action League). I mostly did tabling at events, it wasn't a major thing for me and when other time demands took over I became less involved. However, I don't have a lot of EC's (only 8 or 9) to list, so I am thinking about including it even though it wasn't something I spent a lot of time on. I have worked at a reproductive health center that provides abortions (among other services) for >6 years, so adcoms will see that about me anyway, as that is a major part of my app and my reasons for wanting to be a physician. I am proud to be pro-choice, and have no problem discussing this in an interview, but I'm not so sure if it's a good idea to highlight my involvement in a political organization that is so potentially controversial--I don't want to give the wrong impression to adcoms who may be uninformed about the work NARAL does (which is to maintain and expand reproductive health care rights including but not limited to abortion services, such as access to birth control and equitable health care for women, not to "promote abortions"). I would appreciate opinions from others (about including a controversial EC, NOT your opinions about abortion please--that is a tired debate on these boards that you can do a search on if you're interested).

 

[Mistress S]

Thanks for the replies so far...maybe I'm just being paranoid, but I worry that I might offend some really conservative adcoms (not such a rare breed from what I hear). As for what I would say about it in an interview, it is true that it wasn't a life changing EC for me, but I definitely had some interesting experiences while tabling and it was a great way to interact with the public about an issue I am passionate about and have the opportunity to provide education and be politically involved (in fact, I was thinking about calling them up and seeing if they needed volunteers to get out the word in this important election year, once I'm done with the MCAT). Also, like I said I don't have a ton of EC's, so I'd like to list the things I've done even if they weren't a huge part of my life. Any other opinions?

 

[AlternateSome1]

Just because a person doesn't agree with you doesn't mean they can't appreciate your ability to think for yourself and work for something you believe in. I'd say list it.

 

[chopper]

This probably isn't the case, but if you are applying to one or more of the Jesuit schools (Loyola, Georgetown, SLU, Tulane) it might be an issue. I don't know how much, but something to think about. Any non-religous schools, I don't think it would be that much of an issue.

 

[Anka]

As a general rule, keep anything controversial off your AMCAS. You can always bring it up during your interview if you feel comfortable. It only takes a strong, negative vibe from a single member of the adcom to kill your chances, especially if you're in the middle of the heap. You also don't seem to feel incredibly strongly about keeping it on; don't put it on just to fill space.


Anka

 

[no-see-um]

Don't list it. You're not applying to be a member of the Supreme Court, you're applying to be a medical student. Unless you really want to be judged like that and that experience truly defines who you are, I would not advise you to list it. They may look at it and see an archetype.

(BTW, I am pro organizations like that, for what it's worth)

 

[felipe5]

what a tough call to make. Unless you really feel that you gained something from this experience, and you really really want the adcom's to know about it (I sense a bit of doubt in you about this EC....hence this thread), then I'd go ahead and list it. But, if the above two reasons aren't 100% solid in your mind, then I'd stay clear of the EC.....remember that if you do list it, chances are it will come up in your interview, and (in my humble opinion) the topic of abortion isn't the easiest thing to talk about during interviews.

 

[superdevil]

this is just an opinion:

do not list it. its one of those things that can only *hurt* you. think about it; many people associate very STRONG feelings with the word abortion (and a lot of them are negative). if an adcom member or interviewer reads your app, they might be pissed off before they even meet you! do you really need that uphill battle?? or are you deluded enough to think that an adcom member will look at your application and muse, "National Abortion Rights Action League? cool!! i love rights and action and.....abortion!! immediate acceptance, no interview!!"

i'm not at all trying to diminish the situation, i just find it kind of naive that you would think that you have something to gain by listing it (why else would you bother?).

---opinion over---

good luck, mistress s! 👍

 

[bjolly]

I would include it. Some adcoms may be put off by it, but you said that your experience at a reproductive health center which provides abortions is an important part of your application anyway. I'm thinking you've already lost any adcoms who would be offended by NARAL. So be true to yourself & go for it.

 

[superdevil]

So be true to yourself & go for it.

🙄 i'm not trying to pick on you, bjolly, but have you ever seen those segments on the chapelle show called "When Keepin' It Real Goes Wrong"??

seriously, i'm sure we're all familiar with the long-haired, bearded dude trying to get into med school. what should he do? get a GD razor, a GD haircut, and get accepted! you have FOUR YEARS to grow it back, for god's sake! by the way, does long hair DEFINE who a person is? if it does, maybe the dude should be a hairdresser. does working for NARAL DEFINE who mistress s is? well, probably more than a hairstyle, but it should still take a back seat to this whole "medicine" thing, shouldn't it? just play it cool and then resume the NARAL work once you're IN. they don't own you, but they can exclude you.

opinion #2 over...

 

[g3pro]

Little side note: I can't understand how supporters of abortion can become doctors. Doctors are supposed to preserve life, not destroy it, right? Same lines as Dr. Kevorkian, no?

 

[liverotcod]

I think 8-9 ECs is quite possibly already too many to list. It's like a resume: put the important stuff in and leave the unimportant out. I read you as saying it was not a big deal and you didn't spend much time at it, plus you have similar experience that counts for 6+ years of EC. I would skip it, just as an overkill issue. I don't think the political angle means anything. People often ask about Muslim organizations, which I think show a person's spiritual side and should be included (when significant).

 

[WalterSobchakk]

Little side note: I can't understand how supporters of abortion can become doctors. Doctors are supposed to preserve life, not destroy it, right? Same lines as Dr. Kevorkian, no?

Although I agree with you, this is not the purpose of this thread. She couldn't have stated that more clearly at the beginning, lets not pick fights here.

 

[chumpana]

Hi,
I really think if this organization is something important to you, you should include it in your ECs. I don't think there is anything wrong with just tabling. The fact is that you were involved and you cared enough about their purpose to volunteer your time. To answer your concerns about seeming "controversial", you have 510 or whatever characters in AMCAS to describe the EC. You should use that to explain that it is not just pro-abortion, but about providing women with rights and equality and options. Plus, if you have already mentioned something about your role with this group somewhere else, it cannot hurt you anymore to show dedication to it. I think you'd be surprised to find how open-minded adcom members could be.
Good-luck 🙂

 

[Phil Anthropist]

Little side note: I can't understand how supporters of abortion can become doctors. Doctors are supposed to preserve life, not destroy it, right? Same lines as Dr. Kevorkian, no?

Although I agree with you, this is not the purpose of this thread. She couldn't have stated that more clearly at the beginning, lets not pick fights here.

Agree. I'm as prolife as you can get (I served as president of my school's prolife club and I've been to the March in DC for the past four years), but let's just try to answer Mistress S's question. She specifically asked not to start a debate. Let's respect that.

This probably isn't the case, but if you are applying to one or more of the Jesuit schools (Loyola, Georgetown, SLU, Tulane) it might be an issue. I don't know how much, but something to think about. Any non-religous schools, I don't think it would be that much of an issue.

Just for clarification. Tulane University has no religious affiliation. Loyola, Georgetown and SLU are Jesuit. You can also add Creighton to the list. Also, Georgetown is often criticized by Catholic leaders as not being Catholic enough. But anyway, there are several schools that supposedly have religious traditions (NYMC is Catholic-affiliated, Loma Linda is SDA-affiliated, other schools were created for Jews when they were discriminated by other medical schools) but it doesn't really mean all that much most of the time. I attended a Jesuit undergrad with a medical school and I can tell you that many of my fellow classmates who didn't believe in Catholic/Jesuit principles were accepted into the medical school (of course, they didn't make a huge deal out of the fact that they had different viewpoints). Most medical schools state that they do not discriminate on the basis of creed or religion (even though they may do so informally).

My $.02

 

[jlee9531]

dont put it in. not because it is so called controversial. you said you listed something else that reflect your views.

you shouldnt list it because it wasnt an important EC for you. AMCAS wants only significant ECs to be listed. I didnt fill out all 15 or whatever spots there were. I had at the most 10 I think so we are both in the same boat. Don't worry about it. Filling in all the empty spots is not a prereq for AMCAS or the med schools. 🙂

 

[captain hazel]

I would leave it off, less so because it's possibly controversial, but just because you weren't terribly involved in it. You didn't have a leadership position, and you haven't participated recently.

Also, an analogous hypothetical situation: if I were an ADCOMer, I'd have no problem with seeing a person involved in animal welfare/protection EDs; most would be pretty impressive to me. However, I have very strong negative opinions towards PETA; I hate some of their past reasoning, tactics, and targets. So even if the applicant never plot to infiltrate the Sierra Club board to get access to their resources, or didn't know about smear attacks against researchers, and all they cared about was preventing animal mistreatment, I think I might still be a little put off by their membership with this group. Now, I wouldn't toss it into the reject pile because of it, but I think subconsciously I'd feel less positive about the candidate.


Yeah, so I don't know much about NARAL, and I don't know if they're as controversial as say, the NRA or PETA. But still. I think "being yourself" as being seen as yourself might actually be better served by leaving that group off you app. Whatever nuanced stance or opinions you have on reproductive rights, prevention, women's health and such might be overshadowed if you put yourself under the umbrella of NARAL (which I think is sorta known as just "that one abortion group" by those of us with only a cursory familiarity with the group.)

whatever you decide, good luck!

 

[LoneCoyote]

I worked for a pro-choice group and I left it off my list of activities at the advice of several of my advisors and mentors, including a liberal doctor on the faculty at UCSF. It was something I only did for one summer though, so leaving it off was not a huge deal for me. I also "toned down" some of the other political/GLBT stuff on my activity list that were much bigger time commitments. I did write about these activities in more depth on secondaries and talked about them at interviews, which was the advice I got. I thought it was safer not to have potentially controversial stuff on the initial list of activities without much explanation because it could be something that the wrong person could reject your application over.

 

[medic170]

I vote for not listing it. I have done a lot of work for the republican party and the college republicans, but I left that stuff off just in case my app reviewers lean to the left.

 

[DrMom]

I'd leave it off for the reason that LoneCoyote said. You don't want to be rejected because someone disagrees with your social/political views.

 

[g3pro]

I'd leave it off for the reason that LoneCoyote said. You don't want to be rejected because someone disagrees with your social/political views.

Exactly! That's the same reason I did not include any controversial things to my app for undergrad. That's the same reason why I don't speak up in class when my professor makes ridiculous/illogical/untruthful statements. You don't want to piss off the people who pwn j00. It's just not worth it.

Plus, how much does it actually contribute to you or your app?

 

[dhoonlee]

.

 

[Mutterkuchen]

I'd definitely vote no. When you put polorizing information on your app, I think that you are asking for trouble. I go to Creighton, and it is a Jesuit institution. I feel comfortable in my pro-choice beliefs here. No one is trying to change my mind. However, I think that if you put it in writing on your app, someone may object. Rembember that the adcom is made up of individuals. Some may agree with you. Others may not and they may be influential.

 

[pushkin]

Well, I put down that I interned full time for a US Senator one semester. I could hardly leave it out seeing as it explains why I wasn't taking classes that term. I also wrote in that section that I've volunteered on lots of political campaigns, without stating which party, although it's obvious from the name of the senator. If someone wants to look at my application negatively just because I've participated in the democratic process, then it's their loss. I didn't go into any specifics about political issues though--I just listed my responsibilities as an intern.

I'm not saying you should include NARAL or leave it out--since it wasn't super important to you I think it's fine to leave it out if that's how you're leaning.

 

[bjolly]

🙄 i'm not trying to pick on you, bjolly, but have you ever seen those segments on the chapelle show called "When Keepin' It Real Goes Wrong"??

seriously, i'm sure we're all familiar with the long-haired, bearded dude trying to get into med school. what should he do? get a GD razor, a GD haircut, and get accepted! you have FOUR YEARS to grow it back, for god's sake! by the way, does long hair DEFINE who a person is? if it does, maybe the dude should be a hairdresser. does working for NARAL DEFINE who mistress s is? well, probably more than a hairstyle, but it should still take a back seat to this whole "medicine" thing, shouldn't it? just play it cool and then resume the NARAL work once you're IN. they don't own you, but they can exclude you.

opinion #2 over...

No, I hear you, and I think there's a definite risk to including a controversial EC. However, the OP said that her experiences in repro health/working at abortion provider were an important part of her application & central to her reasons for wanting to be a doctor. If she's going to highlight that as part of her application, I'm thinking she's *already* lost any adcoms that would hold NARAL against her. So there's nothing more to be lost by leaving NARAL in.

If it weren't for that, I'd say probably leave it out, esp since she said she wasn't all that involved with it.

 

[safrat]

think about it this way, who is interviewing you? Some doctors (MDs/phds)and probably med students who mostly VOLUNTEER to do this. Now the juxtaposition. Well, that person interviewing you is not representative of that school--not entirely--so to make the claim that if they reject you based on that stance that you don't or shouldn't be apart of that school is entirely weak.

Okay, so what to do. The most likely outcome is going to be that you get someone that is against abortions, very common in the south. He will either bombard you with ethical questions, try to "tolerate" your stance, or dismiss you entirely. All it takes is one interviewer to sway the adcoms, and yes he can make up anything to indicate that you shouldn't be in med school.

But if you feel so stronglythat you must show your stance, then be ready to go through the gauntlet. I had the same problem--I'm a muslim who participates in the msa. That's not as controversial, but it has been on the boiler the past couple of years. And, by god, I put it down, b/c I wanted them to ask me, and I was going to enlighten them. I had one redneck bastard who mostly ignored me, but the rest of my interviewers were all about my activities. To my surprise, one of the interviewers commented to the adcoms that I would bring something special and unique to the student body. Now, I don't know how this can parallel to your situation. Not that your stance is going to be viewed as incorrect, just what impact is it creating? Is it more controversial then beneficial?

I hope this helps

 

[matthew45]

Like Phil Anthropist, I too was active with the pro-life club at my university and I too have been on several Marches for Life in D.C. (a great experience if you're on our side of the fence). But this isn't an abortion debate thread so I'd just like to respond to the OP.

The doc I shadowed was actually on an adcom, although not at a school I was particullarly interested in. I asked him if I should include pro-life activities and he said no. His reasoning was this:

chances are it won't really hurt you, but there is the off chance of two things happening...
a. Your app gets reviewed by someone who has STRONG views to the contrary. If I was on an adcom, and I got an app filled with pro-abortion ECs there is no way I could in good conscience ignore them and reccomend the person for interview or admission (and now I will brace for flames).
b. The person who interviews you may decide to use that controversial issue to grind you into the wall. This happened to me although I did NOT list my pro-life ECs as such (I put something like "Social Justice Committee Member"). The interviewer asked me about abortion and when I said I was very pro-life he just dove in and asked me question after question about "hard cases." It was unsettling, and I consider myself fairly cool under fire.

It's nice to see that we are discussing this without throwing rocks at each other (for a change).

Matt

 

[liverotcod]

It's nice to see that we are discussing this without throwing rocks at each other (for a change).

Matt

Thanks to everyone for keeping this thread on topic. It's one of the most refreshing I've read in some time. 😍