Could a computer do a doctor's job?

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This is just a ridiculous statement. There are certain things that anyone is qualified of offering an opinion on, regardless of experience. If you went into an interview saying I think we should put the mentally handicapped to work on farms (actual example of someone I know from a mock interview that the interviewer led him into saying) there is no way the school will accept you. Saying "I think a computer can do your job" to a doctor is just as entangling. You might then get a question like "If a computer can do this why couldn't it run the country" or "Why should we waste our time teaching you medicine when a computer can do it better" You'll end up digging yourself into a hole and getting the rejection. It doesn't take adcom or doctor to see this. I think I am perfectly qualified to judge how this situation would turn out.
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We're all aware of how interviews work. If you say anything honst, or innovative, you don't get in. Your job is to say the same drivel everyone else says. When you inerview for medical school you talk about how medcine is a calling, how you want to help the cause of social justice, how we desperately need primary care, etc. You're Mother Theresa, only interested in the greatest good. Then four years later when you interview for residency you forget about all that and instead say your fondest hope is to do lots and lots of resarch. Now youre Mendel, happy if you're allowed to quietly pollinate your peas. Finally when you're looking for a job your goal is to talk about what a good cash cow you'd be for the practice you want to join. For that interview cycle you're the next Warren Buffett, and f- anyone who wants a free ride. After that, when you're done interviewing, you're free to go back to being whoever you really are, whether its a saint, a scientist, a capitalist, or just another lazy schumuck who want to earn his paycheck, go home, and watch the game. And I assume the OP is intellegent enough to know that.

But that doesn't mean his opinion isn't right.
 
Perrotfish said:
We're all aware of how interviews work. If you say anything honst, or innovative, you don't get in. Your job is to say the same drivel everyone else says. When you inerview for medical school you talk about how medcine is a calling, how you want to help the cause of social justice, how we desperately need primary care, etc. You're Mother Theresa, only interested in the greatest good. Then four years later when you interview for residency you forget about all that and instead say your fondest hope is to do lots and lots of resarch. Now youre Mendel, happy if you're allowed to quietly pollinate your peas. Finally when you're looking for a job your goal is to talk about what a good cash cow you'd be for the practice you want to join. For that interview cycle you're the next Warren Buffett, and f- anyone who wants a free ride. After that, when you're done interviewing, you're free to go back to being whoever you really are, whether its a saint, a scientist, a capitalist, or just another lazy schumuck who want to earn his paycheck, go home, and watch the game. And I assume the OP is intellegent enough to know that.

But that doesn't mean his opinion isn't right.
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He doubts the validity of his own assertion in the original post.
 
ppfizenm said:
He doubts the validity of his own assertion in the original post.
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It wasn't actually an assertion, it was a quetion, which he hasn't answered for himself. I've asserted an opinion: Yes , computers and robotics will replace most or all of what physicians do in the next 50 years. He just asked.

Also that's not really relevant. You said that you think that someone who even thinks what he thinks isn't qualified to be a physician. Levaing aside the fact that his post was a question and not a statement of opinoin, the idea that you could call him out as a bad doctor based on his thought process is just dumb. If he had said "i'm sure that in 40 years every doctor will either be a robot or at east a cyborg" I don't have any idea how or why that would make him less qualified to practice medicine.
 
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Perrotfish said:
It wasn't actually an assertion, it was a quetion, which he hasn't answered for himself. I've asserted an opinion: Yes , computers and robotics will replace most or all of what physicians do in the next 50 years. He just asked.

Also that's not really relevant. You said that you think that someone who even thinks what he thinks isn't qualified to be a physician. Levaing aside the fact that his post was a question and not a statement of opinoin, the idea that you could call him out as a bad doctor based on his thought process is just dumb. If he had said "i'm sure that in 40 years every doctor will either be a robot or at east a cyborg" I don't have any idea how or why that would make him less qualified to practice medicine.
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He goes on to explain he thinks it can be done if a computer sees A then it's B and administer C. If he thinks this why is he going into medicine in the first place? Why are you? If you think in your lifetime that you will be replaced by a computer isn't this application process a giant exercise in futility?

Have you read any of the books they recommend for pre-med students? Entire sections are dedicated to this issue. The general consensus I believe is that why computer advancements may be able to aide physicians they will never be able to replace them.

I'll say this part again. The AMA will NEVER allow doctors to be replaced by computers. They will lobby congress to prevent that from ever happening in the United States.
 
He goes on to explain he thinks it can be done if a computer sees A then it's B and administer C. If he thinks this why is he going into medicine in the first place? Why are you? If you think in your lifetime that you will be replaced by a computer isn't this application process a giant exercise in futility?
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I think that only a few professions are going to be replaced in the next 20 years (radiology goes first), and I think theres a good chance my field will last for 50, which is still a lifetime of work. After that I see the role of the modern physician changing, and becoming less focused on implementing patient care and more focused on generating new product lines. Ultimately I think medicine will primarily become primarily a profession of researchers and engineers. So if things go faster than I think they will then I'll go back to being what I was before I started this process: an engineer.

Also, as I said earlier, I think that this question is going to get swallowed by the much larger question of what human beings are and what we should be. I think that human capability is going to stop being a static benchmark that we can measure computer progress against and will become another area of every advancing technology. Actually I think that's going to be the biggest paradigm shift in our generation of physicians: we're going to go from a Hippocratic profession primarily focused on healing and rehabilitating people back to a healthy baseline and we will become equally focused on enhancing the capibilities of that healthy baseline. A brave new world.

Have you read any of the books they recommend for pre-med students? Entire sections are dedicated to this issue. The general consensus I believe is that why computer advancements may be able to aide physicians they will never be able to replace them.
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I'm not sure who 'they' are or what 'they' recommend, but I do know that medicine, even more than other professions, has a well earned reputation for being incredibly myopic. Physician leadership can't imagine a change until 30 years after its already happened.

I'll say this part again. The AMA will NEVER allow doctors to be replaced by computers. They will lobby congress to prevent that from ever happening in the United States.[.
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So your final defense to hold back the big pharma and tech giant industries that will develop these technologies, as well as the healthcare and insurance giants who could drastically reduce their costs by implmenting them, is the lobbying power of the AMA? A not exactly lobby that most physicians don't even belong to?
 
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NO, there are WAY to many variables to be left to a computer. Medical care is personal, computers are not.
 
I'm tired of arguing this point over an over again. I will say this though. While you think physicians tend to be myopic (which I haven't found to be the case; most having formed an opinion of what medicine will be like in the next decade) I find most engineers to be extremely far sighted while practically blind to the limitations of today's technology. A Da Vinci's helicopter hundreds of years before it was possible.

And the AMA has been pretty successful in getting what they want. Pharma generally tries to keep doctors happy (i.e. not take their jobs away).
 
Perrotfish said:
I think that only a few professions are going to be replaced in the next 20 years (radiology goes first), and I think theres a good chance my field will last for 50, which is still a lifetime of work. After that I see the role of the modern physician changing, and becoming less focused on implementing patient care and more focused on generating new product lines. Ultimately I think medicine will primarily become primarily a profession of researchers and engineers. So if things go faster than I think they will then I'll go back to being what I was before I started this process: an engineer.

Also, as I said earlier, I think that this question is going to get swallowed by the much larger question of what human beings are and what we should be. I think that human capability is going to stop being a static benchmark that we can measure computer progress against and will become another area of every advancing technology. Actually I think that's going to be the biggest paradigm shift in our generation of physicians: we're going to go from a Hippocratic profession primarily focused on healing and rehabilitating people back to a healthy baseline and we will become equally focused on enhancing the capibilities of that healthy baseline. A brave new world.


I'm not sure who 'they' are or what 'they' recommend, but I do know that medicine, even more than other professions, has a well earned reputation for being incredibly myopic. Physician leadership can't imagine a change until 30 years after its already happened.



So your final defense to hold back the big pharma and tech giant industries that will develop these technologies, as well as the healthcare and insurance giants who could drastically reduce their costs by implmenting them, is the lobbying power of the AMA? A not exactly lobby that most physicians don't even belong to?
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troll.jpg


I think everyone on here knows, including aSagacious who pointed out the use of Bernett's law, that ppfizenm's statement is ridiculous. I can assure you that

1. The issue of discussion in this thread will not play any role whatsoever in my getting into medical school, nor will it affect in any way or form my duties as a physician.

2. The point of this thread was to have an intellectual exercise to discuss the possibilities of integrating intelligent technology into our healthcare infrastructure. It was not an invitation to question each others' competency as physicians. That's just a silly thing to do, and invoking such insults in a thread like this only points out your own logical shortcomings.

3. There are many arguments for AND against the idea presented in the OP. When I created the thread I did not acknowledge that I am wrong. I merely admitted that there is an opposing view to the ideas that I presented. Also, since there is no definitive answer for a hypothetical question like mine, anyone who has stated an opinion in this thread is neither right nor wrong.

4. And this is to aSagacious: I've been on forums before, this is not my first encounter with trolls. My only mistake was thinking that since this a forum of future doctors, there is a possibility of having a civil discussion which employs constructive criticism and does not resort to personal insults. Unfortunately, I was wrong, and you are right. This is the internet, and arguing does not belong here:

38441_7dtr2scy8f_l.jpg


isoquin said:
What you are describing is a pattern recognition software that would lend itself well to non-procedural internal medicine. I think it's going to be difficult to convince some doctors to use such predictive software, but evidence may help. Nonetheless, we do not have the tech to have robots listening to lungs or putting in central lines. Even if we did, the role of doctor would not be obsolete, but changed.
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I think this is one of the best points made in this thread. Doctors will never be completely replaced by technology, regardless of whether the technology is competent enough to perform a doctor's job. On top of that, many people would prefer direct human interaction no matter how advanced the technology is.

Stumpyman said:
My dad is an engineer and hes actually working on a major project in IBM to make a completely computerized hospital.... I would love to elaborate more on the interesting topic later when im on a comp.
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I'd like to hear more about this.
 
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It already exists. It's called webmd.

Input symptoms--> going to die of AIDS.
 
Could it? Yes. Could it do a lot of other people's job? Yes. Are we likely the front runners for being replaced? No.

Like someone else pointed out, the software companies would then be taking on all the med-mal liability, and unlike your average pediatrician/internist/obstetrician, these companies would be able to pay out a $50,000,000 lawsuit. Painting a target on your back much?

xadmin said:
Yes it can. Look, a computer is grading your Essay now and a computer is driving you around in a car with the google car. So yes a computer can diagnose your symptoms and prescribe medicine to you. Although with physical exam, it will be harder, but soon our technology will get there and the computer can do that too.
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We were also going to have cold fusion pretty soon after the hydrogen bomb.

GoodGame said:
What? I don't think it's my job to know every detail of a doctor's occupation as a pre-med. If it was, I wouldn't need to go to medical SCHOOL.

If my question is really so preposturous as to make you question my capabilities as an MD, then by the same line of logic I can extend the argument and say that you will not be a cable doctor due to the logical fallacies you make in your posts, which undoubtedly extend in real life, and will extend into your profession.
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It's a good thing this isn't the Student Cable Doctor Network then.
 
ppfizenm said:
O is that what the loosely veiled insults and the shut up meant?

I do like how you've both conceded the point I was making and admonished me for holding it in the same post.

This is a forum of premeds on a pre-allopathic message board. Of course I have a right to offer an opinion on the matter. He was asking a question and I answered it. Nowhere does it say please don't answer if you think I'm wrong for holding this opinion or even adcoms and med students only.

I'm not the one picking who get's to go to med school obviously but that doesn't make me any less able to recognize an opinion or belief or application flaw that will get someone sorted out.

Common sense isn't gold but I am sure glad I've been hoarding it.
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Try using it for a change.
 
although i believe a computer will eventually be able to play doctor i think the bigger question that i'm surprised no one ask is would a patient want to be seen by a computer?
 
Blarry said:
although i believe a computer will eventually be able to play doctor i think the bigger question that i'm surprised no one ask is would a patient want to be seen by a computer?
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If they could make it cheap enough, sure why not?
 
I think the technology will be available long before it can be widely implemented, and even the tech is a ways off. The price will probably be exorbitant even when it is. The biggest hurdle will probably be having patients accept robot/computer doctors.

On the list of things I'm worried about this pretty much ranks dead last.
 
GoodGame said:
troll.jpg


I think everyone on here knows, including aSagacious who pointed out the use of Bernett's law, that ppfizenm's statement is ridiculous. I can assure you that

1. The issue of discussion in this thread will not play any role whatsoever in my getting into medical school, nor will it affect in any way or form my duties as a physician.

2. The point of this thread was to have an intellectual exercise to discuss the possibilities of integrating intelligent technology into our healthcare infrastructure. It was not an invitation to question each others' competency as physicians. That's just a silly thing to do, and invoking such insults in a thread like this only points out your own logical shortcomings.

3. There are many arguments for AND against the idea presented in the OP. When I created the thread I did not acknowledge that I am wrong. I merely admitted that there is an opposing view to the ideas that I presented. Also, since there is no definitive answer for a hypothetical question like mine, anyone who has stated an opinion in this thread is neither right nor wrong.

4. And this is to aSagacious: I've been on forums before, this is not my first encounter with trolls. My only mistake was thinking that since this a forum of future doctors, there is a possibility of having a civil discussion which employs constructive criticism and does not resort to personal insults. Unfortunately, I was wrong, and you are right. This is the internet, and arguing does not belong here:

38441_7dtr2scy8f_l.jpg




I think this is one of the best points made in this thread. Doctors will never be completely replaced by technology, regardless of whether the technology is competent enough to perform a doctor's job. On top of that, many people would prefer direct human interaction no matter how advanced the technology is.



I'd like to hear more about this.
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thanks for your input. 👎

on a side note if doctors can be replaced by computers, does that mean NA's can be replaced by vacuum cleaners?
 
A world in which doctors are replaced by computers would be a world, where pretty much everyone else was also unemployed as well because their jobs are much easier to be replaced with computers.
 
To break this vicious cycle, a hero transcending space and time shall emerge.

neo-matrix1.jpeg
 
ppfizenm said:
I shadow a GP and he let's me conduct the physicals. There are certain things a computer just isn't capable of doing. Just like dictionary.com isn't capable of writing a post for you. If you go into an interview claiming computers are better than doctors you'll never be accepted anyway.
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That's pretty cool he lets you do that so early...do he teach you how to do one? I assume you mean a full physical. I couldn't imagine doing a physical as an undergrad because I would have no idea what I'm looking/feeling for.
 
Trauma physical from EMT class + lung/valve auscultation from Physiology class = I got to do H&P for a chronic smoker at my FP physician's office when I was shadowing. Of course, he only let me do it once, and it was obvious what was going on, but it was still interesting.

Let me tell you now that it is better that you stop when you know what you do not know rather than proceeding with the illusion that you know what you do not know or, worse, proceeding without the knowledge that you do not know what you do not know 🙄

No patient deserves a pre-med as a physician.
 
I can't comprehend how great the irony would be if those computers were to somehow get a virus.
 
I'd recommend some antibiotics.

/doubleirony
 
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