Countdown to AOA Match

[MADD!!!]

No, if you’re in a program that won’t make the cut you will still be allowed to graduate. You will just be boarded by the AOA. No resident won’t be allowed to finish.

But doesn’t the AOA go away in 2020? How can they accredit you when your residency finishes past 2020 and not ACGME accredited?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

But doesn’t the AOA go away in 2020? How can they accredit you when your residency finishes past 2020 and not ACGME accredited?

AOA match will disappear, but there is a resolution for "no resident left behind" that will allow you to get AOA accreditation past 2020 if you matched before that year and the program didn't get ACGME before your residency graduation date.

 

[Decremaster]

Matched #1 ortho spot. Super excited. I was a reapplicant after not matching last year. There is hope if you don’t match!


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Bbutterfly]

anybody that applied peds in AOA here? if so I have some questions. I didn't get a ton of interviews on ACGME side and wondering if I should scramble into AOA or wait and see what happens next month. some of those programs don't have a lot of info online and it is making me uneasy

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

But doesn’t the AOA go away in 2020? How can they accredit you when your residency finishes past 2020 and not ACGME accredited?

The AOA is not going away, they just won’t be an accreditor of residencies anymore. Look up “no resident left behind” it’s a resolution that allows the AOA to accredit residencies that don’t make the merger until 2025 (or something like that) so those residents can all graduate. They will just be AOA boarded.

 

[kenjixshadow]

anybody that applied peds in AOA here? if so I have some questions. I didn't get a ton of interviews on ACGME side and wondering if I should scramble into AOA or wait and see what happens next month. some of those programs don't have a lot of info online and it is making me uneasy

Is there any ped position still available rn? If so, applied to those. If you still don't match, you still have ACGME side. If that also doesn't work out, then you can apply to TRI and retry again next cycle. I also saw a few FM opened. I know that it isn't peds, but you will work with lots of children as FM doc so maybe use that as a back up if everything doesn't work out.

 

[AMEHigh]

Congrats to those that matched!

For those that didn't match, you're allowed to be sad/angry/upset today. Tomorrow get your ish together and conquer getting in to a program. I was in your position and felt defeated, but I'm happy where I am now and it all worked out.

 

[ouLUSH]

so there's still tomorrow? called lots of programs today--they told me they would let me know later on today after they reviewed all the apps. and....I haven't heard from anyone :[

 

[MADD!!!]

AOA match will disappear, but there is a resolution for "no resident left behind" that will allow you to get AOA accreditation past 2020 if you matched before that year and the program didn't get ACGME before your residency graduation date.

The AOA is not going away, they just won’t be an accreditor of residencies anymore. Look up “no resident left behind” it’s a resolution that allows the AOA to accredit residencies that don’t make the merger until 2025 (or something like that) so those residents can all graduate. They will just be AOA boarded.

If that's the case I'm even more sad now that AOA is going away :'(. The last "golden years" to get into competitive specialties. I'd think at this point these programs would rather take whoever wants it while they're still open than to just want those with the highest board scores.

 

[DO2015CA]

anybody that applied peds in AOA here? if so I have some questions. I didn't get a ton of interviews on ACGME side and wondering if I should scramble into AOA or wait and see what happens next month. some of those programs don't have a lot of info online and it is making me uneasy

How many AOA spots were open for peds after match

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

How many AOA spots were open for peds after match

The AOA website says there are 12

 

[Preston Garvey]

Matched ENT! so stoked. Heres to lots of alcohol regardless of if you matched or didn't.

 

[Preston Garvey]

If that's the case I'm even more sad now that AOA is going away :'(. The last "golden years" to get into competitive specialties. I'd think at this point these programs would rather take whoever wants it while they're still open than to just want those with the highest board scores.

why wouldn't they want students with high board scores? competitive residencies are competitive regardless if they are AOA or ACGME.

 

[MADD!!!]

why wouldn't they want students with high board scores? competitive residencies are competitive regardless if they are AOA or ACGME.

Sorry, meant to specify the unfilled positions. Point is for those who haven't matched, there's a plethora of spots to plug into. But when the single match comes in, those spots will go straight to IMG's/FMG's. and the struggle for scrambling will be much more real.

 

[sab3156]

Sorry, meant to specify the unfilled positions. Point is for those who haven't matched, there's a plethora of spots to plug into. But when the single match comes in, those spots will go straight to IMG's/FMG's. and the struggle for scrambling will be much more real.

And how is this a bad thing? GME will be infinitely better than it is now (AOA is largely a joke). Next should be LCME accreditation for all DO schools if they want to be eligible for ACGME residencies. DO schools in 2021 will be forced to seriously take a look at their class sizes and about the caliber of students they allow in. This is a huge win for the medical community at large, for patients too.

 

[studentdoct4281]

Wow. matched into my number 1 ortho spot. really thought my comlex at 580 was gonna hold me back. so happy

 

[DrJaySomeday]

Thank you for the feedback
There were a few, 4 programs 2-3 each. Got in touch with them.
2/4: PC and PD not on site today make sure to leave a message.
1 of them, Tulsa, OK: very vague and scanty information on them. talked to them, did an interview and will hear back decision tomorrow after they've called all applicants
the last one: talked to PC but not to PD yet.

My question is really with Tulsa. I have info on all the other ones but OK I can't find reliable info. So if this is the only offer tomorrow, I would like to have enough info to decide. Taking something I don't know anything about and forgo a chance at the ones I interviewed at? I also got some FM interviews in ACGME. So, I am looking for info on a program to help me make an informed decision as to whether or not i go with them if offered or wait until March.
PS: i never interviewed there. I wasn't registered for the match. I was looking at maximizing my options

The PD at Tulsa is probably one of the nicest humans I’ve ever met and on top of that an amazing teacher and pediatrician. I’m pretty surprised there’s any spots open there as I think it would be a dream spot for many people especially those that go to OSU and want to do Peds.

 

[MADD!!!]

And how is this a bad thing? GME will be infinitely better than it is now (AOA is largely a joke). Next should be LCME accreditation for all DO schools if they want to be eligible for ACGME residencies. DO schools in 2021 will be forced to seriously take a look at their class sizes and about the caliber of students they allow in. This is a huge win for the medical community at large, for patients too.

If you’re a DO student, this “joke” of an organization, as well as COCA, are what have given you and the rest of us the ability to become physicians in the first place. The DO’s that are all in practice right now have gone through these programs, and many through these residencies and are great physicians. To suddenly discredit all of this and say they’re a joke that needs to be destroyed is beyond ignorant in my eyes.

And yes, it will be a problem on the receiving end when students don’t match and now it will be harder to scramble because having 300+ FM residencies available to DO’s only won’t be a thing anymore.

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

If you’re a DO student, this “joke” of an organization, as well as COCA, are what have given you and the rest of us the ability to become physicians in the first place. The DO’s that are all in practice right now have gone through these programs, and many through these residencies and are great physicians. To suddenly discredit all of this and say they’re a joke that needs to be destroyed is beyond ignorant in my eyes.

And yes, it will be a problem on the receiving end when students don’t match and now it will be harder to scramble because having 300+ FM residencies available to DO’s only won’t be a thing anymore.

I think itll just take more spots away from IMGs matching.

 

[W19]

Didn't sleep much last night. Woke up at 0700 and saw the email. Utterly couldn't believe it. The Dean couldn't believe it, Rotations department couldn't believe it, none of my friends could believe it, even the residents at my #1 that I was friends with couldn't believe it. I was the sure thing to match at the local EM program. Solid scores, good SLOE's, good auditions, good rotation grades. Spent a couple of hours in damn near a fugue state driving aimlessly around.

Like @Promethean above, I was sure there was some kind of mistake. Hell, I pinched myself about a dozen times to make sure I wasn't dreaming. I literally got beat by one who changed to EM at the last minute and another that failed COMLEX-1 the first time. The only thing that could have happened was I never worked with the new program director. Even tried, got the "oh, don't feel you need to, you already spent a month here, I've heard good things about you"

So, now. Time to lick my wounds, hope for one of the 2 EM scramble spots I've put in for, and wait for the NRMP match next month. If I double-tap that one, I'll either go to my original FM Backup, or TRI at my first AOA or ACGME choice, take the USMLE, kick ass, and repeat this next year.

Not the time to gamble with your future... Scramble for FM spot.

 

[W19]

Can an MD student get a spot in the programs that are dual accredited now?

 

[sab3156]

If you’re a DO student, this “joke” of an organization, as well as COCA, are what have given you and the rest of us the ability to become physicians in the first place. The DO’s that are all in practice right now have gone through these programs, and many through these residencies and are great physicians. To suddenly discredit all of this and say they’re a joke that needs to be destroyed is beyond ignorant in my eyes.

But it is a joke. Most people are here to get a degree because they did not make the cut for MD schools. I haven't met anyone in my life who went to DO school because it was awesome or something. GME standards for all residency programs are now going to be under ACGME, a reputable organization led by leaders of GME education in the MD world. We should be happy for the patients that AOA GME has disappeared.

And yes, it will be a problem on the receiving end when students don’t match and now it will be harder to scramble because having 300+ FM residencies available to DO’s only won’t be a thing anymore.

That's why DO schools need to rethink things and stop opening schools with a million seats just so they can make a quick buck. COCA should also begin to decrease class sizes for existing schools. Otherwise, I personally have no problem if the DOs at the bottom of the class with no research can't even match to FM.

 

[NurWollen]

Do y'all get the impression that the NMS match was smaller this year? I just looked at the FB group for my school's c/o 2018 and there were way fewer people who matched today than there were last year.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[Bbutterfly]

The PD at Tulsa is probably one of the nicest humans I’ve ever met and on top of that an amazing teacher and pediatrician. I’m pretty surprised there’s any spots open there as I think it would be a dream spot for many people especially those that go to OSU and want to do Peds.

Seems like you are familiar with the program. Do you mind if I PM you for more questions?

 

[ortnakas]

Can an MD student get a spot in the programs that are dual accredited now?

If they’re in the NRMP as well, yes. In the past, dual meant they had both accredidations and some spots in each Match. I assume that still holds true.

 

[W19]

If they’re in the NRMP as well, yes. In the past, dual meant they had both accredidations and some spots in each Match. I assume that still holds true.

Can a dually accredited program that did not participate t0 the NRMP match offer an unfilled spot to an MD student before the NRMP match takes place? Not sure what the policy is though!

 

[studentdoct4281]

But it is a joke. Most people are here to get a degree because they did not make the cut for MD schools. I haven't met anyone in my life who went to DO school because it was awesome or something. GME standards for all residency programs are now going to be under ACGME, a reputable organization led by leaders of GME education in the MD world. We should be happy for the patients that AOA GME has disappeared.



That's why DO schools need to rethink things and stop opening schools with a million seats just so they can make a quick buck. COCA should also begin to decrease class sizes for existing schools. Otherwise, I personally have no problem if the DOs at the bottom of the class with no research can't even match to FM.

students need to start writing letters to COCA in masses

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I a quick analysis on the AOA match data from this year and last year.

1. Total number of graduates increased by 396
2. Number of participation in AOA match decreased by 516. Another way to look at it is that in 2017, 37% of all graduates participated in the AOA match while the fraction for this year is 27%.
3. Unmatched rate for those participating in AOA rose from 33% to 45%

 

[QueenJames]

I a quick analysis on the AOA match data from this year and last year.

1. Total number of graduates increased by 396
2. Number of participation in AOA match decreased by 516. Another way to look at it is that in 2017, 37% of all graduates participated in the AOA match while the fraction for this year is 27%.
3. Unmatched rate for those participating in AOA rose from 33% to 45%

So merger pretty much effed people over this year...?

Or still waiting to see how things go for DOs on the ACGME side..?

 

[Postictal Raiden]

So merger pretty much effed people over this year...?

Or still waiting to see how things go for DOs on the ACGME side..?

Yeah, let's not jump the gun just yet and wait till after the ACGME match.

The merger is a good thing. Eventually. We are living thru a transitional period, and all this headache is expected. Once the dust settles, things will get much better.

 

[NurWollen]

The AOA match is dying.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Match Results: 2018 AOA Match Results

Match Statistics: AOA Match Statistics

 

[QueenJames]

Match Results: 2018 AOA Match Results

Match Statistics: AOA Match Statistics

...

 

[Promethean]

Scrambled well. Found myself with an opportunity that I would have wanted from the start, if I hadn't been trying to limit myself geographically. The place I'm headed is 5 hours away from my husband and our home in Pittsburgh, and that is going to be painful. But as far as a place to train and develop as a physician? I couldn't have hoped for a better outcome.

I've joked very often that when it comes to medical education, "You dance with the one that brung ya." Whatever program takes you, that is your number one and you love it and pour yourself into it, all in without reservation. What if's are worse than useless, they are destructive. That said, I am blessed to be going to a place that I did already love, where I actually did a rotation, which I've described repeatedly as a little slice of Heaven on Earth. When I was there, I was sure I'd never be back. Nevertheless, I did not differ from my usual kind, cheerful, helpful persona. Be good to everyone, even those that you are sure will never be in a position to return any favors. Someone like that had the PD's ear and made that spot happen for me.

Like @CajunMedic, I did the fugue state thing for about an hour. I texted my mentor right away and he talked me through the first few minutes of scraping my jaw off the floor and preparing to scramble. I had read the "What to do if you don't Match" materials that the school had sent out, mostly out of a sense of duty. I was certain, just certain, that I had my pick of the places that I ranked, that the one I ranked first was going to be the one that I got... and so I agonized over that choice. One of the surprisingly pleasant things about not matching was being freed from the burdensome responsibility of that choice. The chaos of being tossed into the breeze had a silver lining, then.

I am going to be thinking about "what went wrong" for a long time. My biggest take away is that everyone who has ever said to believe NOTHING when a program tells you that you have a spot with them for sure... that was wisdom. There were no big red flags. My COMLEX 1 was 725, COMLEX 2 was 587, PE passed. My application was a love letter to Family Medicine. I was invited to present a version of my personal statement as a speech at large regional FM conference, with residency programs to which I had applied in attendance back in November. I tend to really overdo things... to be better than I need to be so that I get what I want without having to worry too much about it. I was *sure* that I'd done such a fantastic job of that I didn't need to have a backup plan. Not matching was just not a possibility. That is my take away from this. Never trust anything you don't get in writing and never assume that you've got anything all wrapped up in a bow until you really do. Always have your contingencies in place.

So, what happened? Due to the nature of my program, I had more limited time for interviews than most. I had 2 programs telling me that they definitely wanted me and had a very good feeling about the third. Not finding a way to rank at least a couple more was hubris on my part. I also think the merger played a role. 2/3 programs were splitting their spaces between AOA/ACGME. One even said that they'd value a verbal commitment, so they could strategize how they prioritized their spots between the two matches. But ultimately, saving half or more of the spots for the ACGME match meant that I was competing for a smaller pool of seats at those sites. I reached out to each at noon yesterday, to ask if they had really filled and whether there would be any hope that I could still somehow join them. (I was considering a plan to rank them again in the ACGME match and put off scrambling until after, but come on... they'd let me get away once. Why would I risk everything to give them a second opportunity to pass me by? There is nothing wrong with having a *little* pride.) At least one told me that they'd ranked me highly, and that I was on the borderline to match there. Maybe that was just a polite fiction, but I believe it was probably true.

Anyhow. I think that future Matches will be a little more straightforward for us, just because there won't be as much need for strategizing which to apply in, how many spots to put in each. And for myself? I've signed up for some personal adversity in exchange for an excellent professional opportunity. In other words, nothing new to see there. I'm excited by the adventure of it all and looking forward to what comes next. Good luck to everyone who is still looking for their right spot to land.

 

[kenjixshadow]

That is my take away from this. Never trust anything you don't get in writing and never assume that you've got anything all wrapped up in a bow until you really do. Always have your contingencies in place.

This x1000. I see same **** different years. Don't trust the empty promises. People lie all the time, including PDs. This is why post-interview communication and LOI are also largely useless.

 

[hallowmann]

Well...on to the NRMP, I guess.

Good luck man. Shake it off, if you can scramble EM, do that. If you can't and you've got a good number of ACGME spots to rank, then do that. At the end, worst case scenario, there is always a TRI, but I'd exhaust your options first.

I got into my third choice. No ties to the area, barely knew about the hospital, spent very little time showing interest. It’s still a good program but farther away from home than I was comfortable with.

My top 2 are in less desirable areas. I knew graduates from both programs and had strong connections to the area. I thought there was a 90% chance I would match to either one of them. Maybe the things I thought were important weren’t important at all.

The match is unpredictable. You matched, and to what sounds like a good program. Feel free to celebrate. Don't worry about why it didn't happen at the top two. You have to realize that there are tons of people applying, tons of factors, and its just plain unpredictable. Even if you're in their top 5 out of 50, if they only have 3 spots and 3 of the people above you ranked to match for them, then that's it.

Being on the other side, its a little disconcerting how almost arbitrary it feels. The truth is there are a ton of perfectly fine eligible applicants for most programs, so we make decisions based on some pretty small criteria (feels like when I finalized the specific spots on my ROL), good or bad.

None of it matter now though. You're in a great program. You have to move a bit, but its not like you'll have a ton of time out of the hospital, at least in first year.

Not only that.. 2 unfilled ortho, 2 unfilled derm, and 2 unfilled ENT..... and of the derm and ENT spots apparently one of each of those were at programs that already have initial ACGME accreditation.

It looks like people bailed on the AOA match en masse

It happens every year. Some of those programs are holding out for ACGME match, and some just don't want to rank more than their top and would rather take their chances with the stars that somehow didn't match for whatever reason.

Why is the AOA match going away?!!! :'(((( I wish even though the merger is happening, they kept the AOA match first for us DO's.

Also no Ortho spots were open that were not dually accredited. I'd feel VERY uneasy about entering a non-pcp program that's not dually accredited at this point (mostly due to the fact that the residency is going to last longer than 2020 and if they don't get accreditation you're screwed I believe.)

No. Stop. The AOA match going away is like the best thing ever. Also, as others have mentioned, programs will be allowed to continue long enough to graduate their final class, which is probably why they're making a hard deadline with the 2019 AOA match for a lot of programs.

Could have gone worse, but all I can say is I'm glad my school doesn't have an official ceremony because this would be me

pretending to be as excited as the people that matched their first choice.

Congrats to all!!

You matched man. It may be jarring, but once you're there, chances are you'll be pretty happy with your decision (even with the cluster that intern year is). Be happy you got into a program that you interviewed at, rank, and chose that wanted you.

Didn't sleep much last night. Woke up at 0700 and saw the email. Utterly couldn't believe it. The Dean couldn't believe it, Rotations department couldn't believe it, none of my friends could believe it, even the residents at my #1 that I was friends with couldn't believe it. I was the sure thing to match at the local EM program. Solid scores, good SLOE's, good auditions, good rotation grades. Spent a couple of hours in damn near a fugue state driving aimlessly around.

Like @Promethean above, I was sure there was some kind of mistake. Hell, I pinched myself about a dozen times to make sure I wasn't dreaming. I literally got beat by one who changed to EM at the last minute and another that failed COMLEX-1 the first time. The only thing that could have happened was I never worked with the new program director. Even tried, got the "oh, don't feel you need to, you already spent a month here, I've heard good things about you"

So, now. Time to lick my wounds, hope for one of the 2 EM scramble spots I've put in for, and wait for the NRMP match next month. If I double-tap that one, I'll either go to my original FM Backup, or TRI at my first AOA or ACGME choice, take the USMLE, kick ass, and repeat this next year.

Take an hour, then get on the phone. You have a good strategy in place. Hopefully you will have better news on the ACGME side.

They could be for the ACGME match and just reported as unfilled.

For EM at Lehigh valley I know for a fact they have those 4 unfilled spots for the ACGME match but its posted on the AOA website as unfilled.

The one instance where you can have spots outside the NRMP match and then bring them in at the last minute is with the AOA match. Any dual-accredited programs that are already registered with the NRMP match can do that. They can funnel all their leftover spots into the ACGME match if they wanted to. Its completely up to them how they do the spread.

That’s true... I just like the notion though that these are DO residencies. When it comes to the match, if you didn’t match AOA you have time to scramble out of all of these spots. (Look at the number of FM and IM spots). But when the merger happens, all of these spots will be instantly filled with IMG’s. But right now the way it’s setup, they go through AOA match first, then whatever spots are left go into the NRMP match for those unfilled.

A lot of those FM and IM programs still won't fill. Look at the NRMP match. There are plenty of FM and IM programs in the SOAP every year. They won't be instantly filled with IMGs. The SOAP is better than the scramble. You don't know what its like to go through the scramble, and I certainly don't wish it on anyone. Seeing a few people go through it is bad enough.

Is there any ped position still available rn? If so, applied to those. If you still don't match, you still have ACGME side. If that also doesn't work out, then you can apply to TRI and retry again next cycle. I also saw a few FM opened. I know that it isn't peds, but you will work with lots of children as FM doc so maybe use that as a back up if everything doesn't work out.

Good advice.

so there's still tomorrow? called lots of programs today--they told me they would let me know later on today after they reviewed all the apps. and....I haven't heard from anyone :[

There's still tomorrow. Its good you contacted places yesterday though. Don't worry. Some programs even wait until after the NRMP match. I would continue contacting as many programs as possible, and sending them your app. Sometimes there's just a flood right after the match, so it takes them a while to sift through the apps and see if people are still unplaced. Don't stop contacting programs though, not until you have that contract signed.

If that's the case I'm even more sad now that AOA is going away :'(. The last "golden years" to get into competitive specialties. I'd think at this point these programs would rather take whoever wants it while they're still open than to just want those with the highest board scores.

Unfortunately, that is not entirely accurate. A lot of programs wait it out to see who's left when the dust settles, especially if they don't get a ton of competitive applicants. I've seen programs do it year to year. There's a lot of competitive people that don't match for whatever reason.

Not the time to gamble with your future... Scramble for FM spot.

No. There will be FM and TRI spots open to scramble into even after the ACGME match. Sure, they might not be the best, but its worth the risk in my opinion to try and match the specialty you want, especially when they've got ACGME FM spots on their list.

Can an MD student get a spot in the programs that are dual accredited now?

Can a dually accredited program that did not participate t0 the NRMP match offer an unfilled spot to an MD student before the NRMP match takes place? Not sure what the policy is though!

Most programs that are participating in the NRMP match will likely just add their spots to that match, and then fill the rest in the SOAP. The NRMP has an "all-in" policy, but in the case of dual-accredited AOA programs, they actually have the ability to reserve spots for the AOA match/scramble.

Do y'all get the impression that the NMS match was smaller this year? I just looked at the FB group for my school's c/o 2018 and there were way fewer people who matched today than there were last year.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

It definitely was smaller. A lot of programs have transitioned and a lot of students are aiming for the ACGME match due to the uncertainty of the process. Curious to see the NRMP match data. I wouldn't be surprised if the DO match rate dips a bit due to having so many more DO applicants (with class expansion, with more students favoring the ACGME match, and more that didn't match AOA). It didn't happen last year with similar issues, but we'll see what happens this year.

So merger pretty much effed people over this year...?

Or still waiting to see how things go for DOs on the ACGME side..?

We'll see. We really have to wait until after the NRMP match and until the AOA/AACOM releases their annual review of the match. When that happens (if I'm not drowning on inpatient), I'll try and make a post similar to the ones for the last couple years, so we can actually see where the real match rates land.

Scrambled well. Found myself with an opportunity that I would have wanted from the start, if I hadn't been trying to limit myself geographically. The place I'm headed is 5 hours away from my husband and our home in Pittsburgh, and that is going to be painful. But as far as a place to train and develop as a physician? I couldn't have hoped for a better outcome.

I've joked very often that when it comes to medical education, "You dance with the one that brung ya." Whatever program takes you, that is your number one and you love it and pour yourself into it, all in without reservation. What if's are worse than useless, they are destructive. That said, I am blessed to be going to a place that I did already love, where I actually did a rotation, which I've described repeatedly as a little slice of Heaven on Earth. When I was there, I was sure I'd never be back. Nevertheless, I did not differ from my usual kind, cheerful, helpful persona. Be good to everyone, even those that you are sure will never be in a position to return any favors. Someone like that had the PD's ear and made that spot happen for me.

Like @CajunMedic, I did the fugue state thing for about an hour. I texted my mentor right away and he talked me through the first few minutes of scraping my jaw off the floor and preparing to scramble. I had read the "What to do if you don't Match" materials that the school had sent out, mostly out of a sense of duty. I was certain, just certain, that I had my pick of the places that I ranked, that the one I ranked first was going to be the one that I got... and so I agonized over that choice. One of the surprisingly pleasant things about not matching was being freed from the burdensome responsibility of that choice. The chaos of being tossed into the breeze had a silver lining, then.

I am going to be thinking about "what went wrong" for a long time. My biggest take away is that everyone who has ever said to believe NOTHING when a program tells you that you have a spot with them for sure... that was wisdom. There were no big red flags. My COMLEX 1 was 725, COMLEX 2 was 587, PE passed. My application was a love letter to Family Medicine. I was invited to present a version of my personal statement as a speech at large regional FM conference, with residency programs to which I had applied in attendance back in November. I tend to really overdo things... to be better than I need to be so that I get what I want without having to worry too much about it. I was *sure* that I'd done such a fantastic job of that I didn't need to have a backup plan. Not matching was just not a possibility. That is my take away from this. Never trust anything you don't get in writing and never assume that you've got anything all wrapped up in a bow until you really do. Always have your contingencies in place.

So, what happened? Due to the nature of my program, I had more limited time for interviews than most. I had 2 programs telling me that they definitely wanted me and had a very good feeling about the third. Not finding a way to rank at least a couple more was hubris on my part. I also think the merger played a role. 2/3 programs were splitting their spaces between AOA/ACGME. One even said that they'd value a verbal commitment, so they could strategize how they prioritized their spots between the two matches. But ultimately, saving half or more of the spots for the ACGME match meant that I was competing for a smaller pool of seats at those sites. I reached out to each at noon yesterday, to ask if they had really filled and whether there would be any hope that I could still somehow join them. (I was considering a plan to rank them again in the ACGME match and put off scrambling until after, but come on... they'd let me get away once. Why would I risk everything to give them a second opportunity to pass me by? There is nothing wrong with having a *little* pride.) At least one told me that they'd ranked me highly, and that I was on the borderline to match there. Maybe that was just a polite fiction, but I believe it was probably true.

Anyhow. I think that future Matches will be a little more straightforward for us, just because there won't be as much need for strategizing which to apply in, how many spots to put in each. And for myself? I've signed up for some personal adversity in exchange for an excellent professional opportunity. In other words, nothing new to see there. I'm excited by the adventure of it all and looking forward to what comes next. Good luck to everyone who is still looking for their right spot to land.

Congrats on finding a spot. A few things I'd like to highlight:

1. Don't believe that if a program tells you that you're a "sure thing" or "would be a great addition" or "are ranked to match", that means that you'll match. They may even be telling the truth, but for all you know they may be basing that off of last year where they got to spot 20 on their 100 long ROL in order to fill, but maybe this year they only get to 15. Some people also just lie or tell that to everyone. You just don't know, so don't base any decision (where to rank them, whether to have a backup plan, whether to rank other programs, etc.) on that.

2. You are not a "sure thing" or "too good to not match". No one is. This is an unpredictable process. There are too many variables to be confident on where you stand. Maybe you rubbed one person the wrong way, and that person killed your chances of matching (whether that means calling you a DNR at the ranking meeting or just having reservations that drops you out of the ranked to match area).

3. Rank every program that you interview at that you would be willing to go to. Don't think that since you'll never have to get down that low, there's no point to rank them. If you're willing to go there, then its worth ranking. Going through the scramble/SOAP is painful. It works out for some, but for others, it just sucks.

4. Apply to/interview at enough programs with a spread of competitiveness. You need to plan to have enough on your ROL. This becomes more important with the transition. The days of applying to 5 and ranking 3 don't exist anymore. Its unfortunate, but its the way things are at the moment. You need to have reasonable programs on there that you would be willing to go to.

5. Have a backup plan. It doesn't matter if you'll "never need it". Refer back to #2. The point is that you never know if you won't need it. I spent an unnatural amount of time looking into scramble-able spots, TRIs, the SOAP process, etc. before match week. And to be honest, I became comfortable with an idea that I could settle in a program/field I didn't initially want. I don't regret that. I didn't end up needing it, but I'm glad I knew that I had a plan, and ultimately I was able to help others because of it (you will know someone who didn't match). You don't want to be figuring that out on the day you don't match. You need a plan.

6. Be good to people and help your peers. You will know someone who didn't match. Help them any way you can. That could mean putting in a good word, or it could just mean listening to them and being there for them. You would want that if you were in their position. Definitely enjoy matching, but don't let that blind you to what others are going through. It also goes back to not knowing when someone might be in a position to help you. Be kind to everyone, and you'll be surprised what people have the power to do.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

There were less AOA participants but also less programs of good quality too, right? This year I saw a bunch of programs go acgme only that were once open to AOA.

 

[NuttyEngDude]

Good luck man. Shake it off, if you can scramble EM, do that. If you can't and you've got a good number of ACGME spots to rank, then do that. At the end, worst case scenario, there is always a TRI, but I'd exhaust your options first.

Congrats on finding a spot. A few things I'd like to highlight:

1. Don't believe that if a program tells you that you're a "sure thing" or "would be a great addition" or "are ranked to match", that means that you'll match. They may even be telling the truth, but for all you know they may be basing that off of last year where they got to spot 20 on their 100 long ROL in order to fill, but maybe this year they only get to 15. Some people also just lie or tell that to everyone. You just don't know, so don't base any decision (where to rank them, whether to have a backup plan, whether to rank other programs, etc.) on that.

2. You are not a "sure thing" or "too good to not match". No one is. This is an unpredictable process. There are too many variables to be confident on where you stand. Maybe you rubbed one person the wrong way, and that person killed your chances of matching (whether that means calling you a DNR at the ranking meeting or just having reservations that drops you out of the ranked to match area).

3. Rank every program that you interview at that you would be willing to go to. Don't think that since you'll never have to get down that low, there's no point to rank them. If you're willing to go there, then its worth ranking. Going through the scramble/SOAP is painful. It works out for some, but for others, it just sucks.

4. Apply to/interview at enough programs with a spread of competitiveness. You need to plan to have enough on your ROL. This becomes more important with the transition. The days of applying to 5 and ranking 3 don't exist anymore. Its unfortunate, but its the way things are at the moment. You need to have reasonable programs on there that you would be willing to go to.

5. Have a backup plan. It doesn't matter if you'll "never need it". Refer back to #2. The point is that you never know if you won't need it. I spent an unnatural amount of time looking into scramble-able spots, TRIs, the SOAP process, etc. before match week. And to be honest, I became comfortable with an idea that I could settle in a program/field I didn't initially want. I don't regret that. I didn't end up needing it, but I'm glad I knew that I had a plan, and ultimately I was able to help others because of it (you will know someone who didn't match). You don't want to be figuring that out on the day you don't match. You need a plan.

6. Be good to people and help your peers. You will know someone who didn't match. Help them any way you can. That could mean putting in a good word, or it could just mean listening to them and being there for them. You would want that if you were in their position. Definitely enjoy matching, but don't let that blind you to what others are going through. It also goes back to not knowing when someone might be in a position to help you. Be kind to everyone, and you'll be surprised what people have the power to do.

Absolutely beautiful, bravo!

 

[LaughingMan]

Thank you for the feedback
There were a few, 4 programs 2-3 each. Got in touch with them.
2/4: PC and PD not on site today make sure to leave a message.
1 of them, Tulsa, OK: very vague and scanty information on them. talked to them, did an interview and will hear back decision tomorrow after they've called all applicants
the last one: talked to PC but not to PD yet.

My question is really with Tulsa. I have info on all the other ones but OK I can't find reliable info. So if this is the only offer tomorrow, I would like to have enough info to decide. Taking something I don't know anything about and forgo a chance at the ones I interviewed at? I also got some FM interviews in ACGME. So, I am looking for info on a program to help me make an informed decision as to whether or not i go with them if offered or wait until March.
PS: i never interviewed there. I wasn't registered for the match. I was looking at maximizing my options

PM Me

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Scrambled well. Found myself with an opportunity that I would have wanted from the start, if I hadn't been trying to limit myself geographically. The place I'm headed is 5 hours away from my husband and our home in Pittsburgh, and that is going to be painful. But as far as a place to train and develop as a physician? I couldn't have hoped for a better outcome.

I've joked very often that when it comes to medical education, "You dance with the one that brung ya." Whatever program takes you, that is your number one and you love it and pour yourself into it, all in without reservation. What if's are worse than useless, they are destructive. That said, I am blessed to be going to a place that I did already love, where I actually did a rotation, which I've described repeatedly as a little slice of Heaven on Earth. When I was there, I was sure I'd never be back. Nevertheless, I did not differ from my usual kind, cheerful, helpful persona. Be good to everyone, even those that you are sure will never be in a position to return any favors. Someone like that had the PD's ear and made that spot happen for me.

Like @CajunMedic, I did the fugue state thing for about an hour. I texted my mentor right away and he talked me through the first few minutes of scraping my jaw off the floor and preparing to scramble. I had read the "What to do if you don't Match" materials that the school had sent out, mostly out of a sense of duty. I was certain, just certain, that I had my pick of the places that I ranked, that the one I ranked first was going to be the one that I got... and so I agonized over that choice. One of the surprisingly pleasant things about not matching was being freed from the burdensome responsibility of that choice. The chaos of being tossed into the breeze had a silver lining, then.

I am going to be thinking about "what went wrong" for a long time. My biggest take away is that everyone who has ever said to believe NOTHING when a program tells you that you have a spot with them for sure... that was wisdom. There were no big red flags. My COMLEX 1 was 725, COMLEX 2 was 587, PE passed. My application was a love letter to Family Medicine. I was invited to present a version of my personal statement as a speech at large regional FM conference, with residency programs to which I had applied in attendance back in November. I tend to really overdo things... to be better than I need to be so that I get what I want without having to worry too much about it. I was *sure* that I'd done such a fantastic job of that I didn't need to have a backup plan. Not matching was just not a possibility. That is my take away from this. Never trust anything you don't get in writing and never assume that you've got anything all wrapped up in a bow until you really do. Always have your contingencies in place.

So, what happened? Due to the nature of my program, I had more limited time for interviews than most. I had 2 programs telling me that they definitely wanted me and had a very good feeling about the third. Not finding a way to rank at least a couple more was hubris on my part. I also think the merger played a role. 2/3 programs were splitting their spaces between AOA/ACGME. One even said that they'd value a verbal commitment, so they could strategize how they prioritized their spots between the two matches. But ultimately, saving half or more of the spots for the ACGME match meant that I was competing for a smaller pool of seats at those sites. I reached out to each at noon yesterday, to ask if they had really filled and whether there would be any hope that I could still somehow join them. (I was considering a plan to rank them again in the ACGME match and put off scrambling until after, but come on... they'd let me get away once. Why would I risk everything to give them a second opportunity to pass me by? There is nothing wrong with having a *little* pride.) At least one told me that they'd ranked me highly, and that I was on the borderline to match there. Maybe that was just a polite fiction, but I believe it was probably true.

Anyhow. I think that future Matches will be a little more straightforward for us, just because there won't be as much need for strategizing which to apply in, how many spots to put in each. And for myself? I've signed up for some personal adversity in exchange for an excellent professional opportunity. In other words, nothing new to see there. I'm excited by the adventure of it all and looking forward to what comes next. Good luck to everyone who is still looking for their right spot to land.

Congrats on finding a spot.

I would like to clarify something. Did you only rank two programs ?

 

[wjs010]

How long do you have to work out a scramble?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[NuttyEngDude]

How long do you have to work out a scramble?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Ideally ASAP, latest, July 1st. Keep in mind these spots fill up, and quickly. So it is in your best interest to do so ASAP.

 

[ortnakas]

How long do you have to work out a scramble?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

In general, spots are still available after NRMP Match/SOAP, especially TRI spots. But it's also the Scramble for a reason... things happen fast. I'm currently rotating at a hospital that had some openings to fill after the AOA match, and they were doing phone interviews by 2 PM yesterday.

So theoretically you have a while, but there's no guarantee you'll be interested in the spots still available next month.

 

[ortnakas]

Congrats on finding a spot.

I would like to clarify something. Did you only rank two programs ?

No offense @Promethean because you had your reasons, but this is kind of a crucial detail to the story. Someone with your story and stats and a rank list of ten places would be shocking; with a rank list of two places, it's more just unfortunate bad luck. Not that I don't feel for you, and I'm really glad you scrambled successfully, but I don't want to strike fear into the hearts of 2019ers and make them think you suddenly need an 800 COMLEX and a 20-place rank list to match AOA FM or something.

 

[MADD!!!]

No offense @Promethean because you had your reasons, but this is kind of a crucial detail to the story. Someone with your story and stats and a rank list of ten places would be shocking; with a rank list of two places, it's more just unfortunate bad luck. Not that I don't feel for you, and I'm really glad you scrambled successfully, but I don't want to strike fear into the hearts of 2019ers and make them think you suddenly need an 800 COMLEX and a 20-place rank list to match AOA FM or something.

Also to add to this... is it possible that either of the programs ranked Promethean lower as a result of the very high board score? One of those rare instances where the programs might figure he/she wouldn't rank their program highly anyways b/c they were over-qualified compared to their typical applicants? Just a thought.

 

[SpartanWolverine]

Also to add to this... is it possible that either of the programs ranked Promethean lower as a result of the very high board score? One of those rare instances where the programs might figure he/she wouldn't rank their program highly anyways b/c they were over-qualified compared to their typical applicants? Just a thought.

Not sure about that. The advice to programs is the same as to applicants -- rank in your true preference order and don't try to overthink the process.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Also to add to this... is it possible that either of the programs ranked Promethean lower as a result of the very high board score? One of those rare instances where the programs might figure he/she wouldn't rank their program highly anyways b/c they were over-qualified compared to their typical applicants? Just a thought.

That’s not how programs think so it’s very highly unlikely. Because of how the match works the programs don’t benefit anything by ranking someone lower.

 

[Jinxapotato]

So merger pretty much effed people over this year...?

Or still waiting to see how things go for DOs on the ACGME side..?

It's just some people using AOA match as a gamble plan. eg:I can apply for IM in ACGME, then ophtho/derm in AOA. If I match ophtho/derm, great! But chances are I'm not so I'm OK with IM on the ACGME side too.

 

[UTsksk]

It's just some people using AOA match as a gamble plan. eg:I can apply for IM in ACGME, then ophtho/derm in AOA. If I match ophtho/derm, great! But chances are I'm not so I'm OK with IM on the ACGME side too.

That was my original plan during 3rd year. Do AOA neuro and ACGME psych. At the end of 3rd year it seemed too much of a hassle and some AOA req auditions in order for them to invite you. Just stuck with ACGME psych.

 

[Promethean]

Congrats on finding a spot.

I would like to clarify something. Did you only rank two programs ?

I applied at 9 programs within a 90 minute radius of my home. I interviewed at and ranked 3. I would have loved to have interviewed at more, but I was severely limited by my program with regard to how many days I could have to go on interviews. I spent a total of 70 hours driving during the month of November, going to 2 conferences, 2 board exams, 3 interviews, and returning to Erie between each adventure for my regularly scheduled clinical days.

One of my programs put only 2 of their spots into AOA, with the other several reserved for ACGME. Another put 3 of 6 spots into AOA. The final one was all AOA, no ACGME. So, it turns out that I wasn't competing for one of 18 seats, but 1 of 7 total across the 3 programs.

One of the programs that did not offer me an interview reached out today. They didn't fill any of their seats in the Match. I'd already signed, but no regrets. I'm delighted with where I landed.