Course intensity difference

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RNtoMD87

RNtoMD87

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Has anyone else noticed this?

I took Algebra 161(algebra 1 for science majors) in 2006. There were two grades for the course, midterm and finals. Each test consisted of two word problems on a page, six problems altogether, and you had to show all of your work.

I was helping a friend with algebra 161 at the same school, and there is a “math lab” that they attend for x hours a week that is pretty much a participation grade, and they have weekly homework done on an online program, and proctored tests done 4 times a semester through the same program. They don’t miss points for getting homework questions wrong as long as they keep trying (only last attempt is graded). Also there are no word problems, it is just solving equations and the test questions are exactly like the homework. My friend doesn’t understand how to do problems, just memorizes the process he used on the homework and applies it to the test.


It is so very much different.
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Is Algebra 1 the same as abstract algebra? (Not sure how your institution calls algebra classes)
The naming of math classes is also very inconsistent throughout the US.
 
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Depends on institution and Educational background. My High School in SoCal had some of the highest Calculus AP pass rates in the nation and especially California with numbers ranging from 93%-98%. Calc AB the former, and BC for the latter. And then in college the Math for science majors required was Calculus, not algebra, with curriculum going from limits to integration. Multi-variate calculus was not required unless you were a math or engineering related major.

So ya..in some cases the requirements have downgraded in others its more advanced. I know mid-late elementary school students who are learning algebra. Overall though, the math education in our country remains piss-poor. Then they added the whole common core thing that pissed off most math teachers.
 
Sophist said:
Is Algebra 1 the same as abstract algebra? (Not sure how your institution calls algebra classes)
The naming of math classes is also very inconsistent throughout the US.
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Starts off with linear equations and ends with logs. That’s all I know. But this is the same school. Same course. Same material covered, just much “easier”. And it’s not just this college, apparently all colleges have implemented these “math labs” in the area I live with a similar scheme.
 
Bro have you taken physics or Orgo? Haha
 
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Nope just finished my BSN. Start premed in january.

Not concerned about physics. I understand it, I use basic physics working the DOPE on shooting, working up new handloads etc. I don’t know the depth, but I understand the gist.

My concern is with organic and biochem. I’m decent with General chem (aced chem 1 without studying but it was a non science majors course so I have to take all 8 hours of g chem still), but organic is totally new to me (minus the little organic we did in high school, you know methyl, ethyl, etc basic naming conventions) that’s as far as I’ve gotten with organic

I’m really excited to learn it, which I hope will make it easier to learn. I want to understand why the things I play with work the way they do scientifically

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Sophist said:
Is Algebra 1 the same as abstract algebra? (Not sure how your institution calls algebra classes)
The naming of math classes is also very inconsistent throughout the US.
Click to expand...

No lol. Algebra one is elementary algebra. Abstract algebra is usually a junior or senior level course for a math major. A lot of the lower division courses are inconsistently named, but once you get into calc and above, they are typically consistent. Abstract algebra is sometimes called modern algebra or intermediate algebra. But most of the other courses (ie, analysis, diff eq, etc) are consistently named.
 
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Mathew such a beast I can tell. My buddy is doing mech eng and would love a friend like you.
 
Don’t look at me, I’m just a dumb grunt lol.
 
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Oh it’s pretty useful.
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Any recommendations for filler practically useful math courses for someone who’s only taken basic algebra, trig, and stats?
 
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RNtoMD87 said:
Nope just finished my BSN. Start premed in january.

Not concerned about physics. I understand it, I use basic physics working the DOPE on shooting, working up new handloads etc. I don’t know the depth, but I understand the gist.

My concern is with organic and biochem. I’m decent with General chem (aced chem 1 without studying but it was a non science majors course so I have to take all 8 hours of g chem still), but organic is totally new to me (minus the little organic we did in high school, you know methyl, ethyl, etc basic naming conventions) that’s as far as I’ve gotten with organic

I’m really excited to learn it, which I hope will make it easier to learn. I want to understand why the things I play with work the way they do scientifically

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They are going to be different because they are at a depth you are not experienced with while your prior experience was basic naming etc.
 
Rock solid general algebra skills and maybe some statistics for mcat and understanding research papers is all you will need for success in premed.
 
I don’t think shooting and reloading is going to help with springs, optics, magnetism, circuits or fluids. And I took chem for nursing and I can assure you it’s different.
I will say that they are all manageable in different ways
Gen chem- understand the basic concepts and simple algebra and you are good.
Gen Bio- flash cards or Anki and purely memorize the random facts
Physics - knock out enough practice problems and your good
Orgo - David Klein reading before each subject lecture and then a couple flash cards for reagents etc.
Biochem is not that bad... seriously. Although my professor was the premed weeded so he just made the exams stupid silly.
Edit- I’m a nontrad who worked during premed and managed As in every prereq and a B (87) in Biochem with seriously minimal study... like chill.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I'd add basic trig knowledge. You don't need to know too much, but it does help.
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Yea, basic trig for physics... I got a professor override and went into physics with zero trig knowledge and got smacked in the face hard for the first week....
Just know like Sohcohtoa and maybe rule of signs and you are good to go from trig knowledge
 
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Blanky said:
I don’t think shooting and reloading is going to help with springs, optics, magnetism, circuits or fluids. And I took chem for nursing and I can assure you it’s different.
I will say that they are all manageable in different ways
Gen chem- understand the basic concepts and simple algebra and you are good.
Gen Bio- flash cards or Anki and purely memorize the random facts
Physics - knock out enough practice problems and your good
Orgo - David Klein reading before each subject lecture and then a couple flash cards for reagents etc.
Biochem is not that bad... seriously. Although my professor was the premed weeded so he just made the exams stupid silly.
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Generally agree. But as a gunner in the Navy, I will say that there is a lot of intuitive math that goes into long distance shooting, and if you want to mill your own rounds, you need to do some basic math too. It's nothing crazy, though if you're shooting at REALLY long distance, you need to be taking wind, gravity, and even the Coriolis effect (1,000 yards and greater). Lots of physics involved.

Also, with physics, I found that knowing the concepts cold made it much easier to ace the exams without doing tons of problems. It's just translating the English into math, which you can do very quickly if you know the concepts and are good at math.
 
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I think you are right about the physics concepts but I would just spend a couple hours on problems the day of the exam and slide through... likely made my mcat study harder and even with a strong chem background I was scoring 127-128 on CP and ended up getting a 126 CP
 
Blanky said:
I think you are right about the physics concepts but I would just spend a couple hours on problems the day of the exam and slide through... likely made my mcat study harder and even with a strong chem background I was scoring 127-128 on CP and ended up getting a 126 CP
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Yeah, I just made sure I had the concepts down pat. I barely did any practice problems. Rolled into an MCAT with 6 physics passages and hit a 131 in C/P. Concepts ftw.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Generally agree. But as a gunner in the Navy, I will say that there is a lot of intuitive math that goes into long distance shooting, and if you want to mill your own rounds, you need to do some basic math too. It's nothing crazy, though if you're shooting at REALLY long distance, you need to be taking wind, gravity, and even the Coriolis effect (1,000 yards and greater). Lots of physics involved.

Also, with physics, I found that knowing the concepts cold made it much easier to ace the exams without doing tons of problems. It's just translating the English into math, which you can do very quickly if you know the concepts and are good at math.
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Exactly. I don’t think being a long distance shooter will automatically make me know physics, but I have some real world understanding to apply it to.

Like med school and nursing. It doesn’t teach you near the depth, but at least you have some outside knowledge to tie it to. Personally I just can’t “get” a topic unless I have a real world tie in on it.

I guess what I’m saying is it becomes more intuitive and less just straight memorization. Brewing beer, and my gun stuff actually made me pick up algebra very easily. I failed it once and had to withdraw in 2006, now I’m like “this is so easy how did I not get it?!”
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Yeah, I just made sure I had the concepts down pat. I barely did any practice problems. Rolled into an MCAT with 6 physics passages and hit a 131 in C/P. Concepts ftw.
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Bro you had to smash CP you are the math major, the numbers wizard!
 
RNtoMD87 said:
Any recommendations for filler practically useful math courses for someone who’s only taken basic algebra, trig, and stats?
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Calculus 1 (just through derivatives and integrals IIRC) was easily my favorite pre-med class. Might just have had a great professor, but my mind was blown a number of times in that class, and it was a pretty easy A. It will help out with physics too.
 
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Gurby said:
Calculus 1 (just through derivatives and integrals IIRC) was easily my favorite pre-med class. Might just have had a great professor, but my mind was blown a number of times in that class, and it was a pretty easy A. It will help out with physics too.
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That’s one I was wondering about. I’ve always wanted to take calc because it seems super interesting. How hard would it be for someone who’s only had algebra 1?

Y’all are talking to a nurse who wants to go to med school for the knowledge. I am just a lifelong learner, math, all of that interests me.
 
Stats, calc is just for fun
 
RNtoMD87 said:
That’s one I was wondering about. I’ve always wanted to take calc because it seems super interesting. How hard would it be for someone who’s only had algebra 1?

Y’all are talking to a nurse who wants to go to med school for the knowledge. I am just a lifelong learner, math, all of that interests me.
Click to expand...

Calc is weird in that it's completely different from the math that comes before it. I think if you're comfortable with algebra (graphing and functions especially), you're probably good to jump into calculus. If you want to test the waters, you could take a crack at Khan Academy's calc course which I haven't done but am sure is probably great: AP®︎ Calculus AB | Khan Academy

Funny story - I did my post-bac at Harvard Extension which was a great program but very rigorous. I figured I'd take calc 1 at a nearby podunk community college because it'd be easier. Took their placement test and they wanted to force me to take a pre-calc course :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Said lol nah. Enrolled in the HES calculus course instead because they didn't have any pre-test, and finished the class with a >95% average :rolleyes:
 
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Blanky said:
Stats, calc is just for fun
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Well fun is the name of my game. Calc sounds interesting.

How insane would it be to take calc and then go into calc based physics instead of Algebra based?
 
RNtoMD87 said:
Well fun is the name of my game. Calc sounds interesting.

How insane would it be to take calc and then go into calc based physics instead of Algebra based?
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Thats not weird at all, its not that much harder if any... Also likely school dependant.
 
Blanky said:
Thats not weird at all, its not that much harder if any... Also likely school dependant.
Click to expand...

It was much more difficult at my school. I agree that calc-based physics is more interesting in that you actually get a glimpse of the physics instead of the fudging that algebra-based gives you, but it can be much more difficult depending on the professor. Not worth the risk to the GPA if you aren't super solid in calc.
 
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Gurby said:
Calc is weird in that it's completely different from the math that comes before it. I think if you're comfortable with algebra (graphing and functions especially), you're probably good to jump into calculus. If you want to test the waters, you could take a crack at Khan Academy's calc course which I haven't done but am sure is probably great: AP®︎ Calculus AB | Khan Academy

Funny story - I did my post-bac at Harvard Extension which was a great program but very rigorous. I figured I'd take calc 1 at a nearby podunk community college because it'd be easier. Took their placement test and they wanted to force me to take a pre-calc course :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: Said lol nah. Enrolled in the HES calculus course instead because they didn't have any pre-test, and finished the class with a >95% average :rolleyes:
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Eh. If you have a good prof, calc shouldn't be much more than pre-calc. It's pre-calc plus just a little bit more. The concept seems very different, but it's really not. At least not in calc 1.
 
RNtoMD87 said:
That’s one I was wondering about. I’ve always wanted to take calc because it seems super interesting. How hard would it be for someone who’s only had algebra 1?

Y’all are talking to a nurse who wants to go to med school for the knowledge. I am just a lifelong learner, math, all of that interests me.
Click to expand...

You need a solid grasp of algebra, trig, and the stuff in pre-calc: limits, summation, etc. Without that, you might be able to figure out what to do for each problem, but you won't know why which will make solving new problems (i.e., on a test) very difficult.
 
Gurby said:
Calculus 1 (just through derivatives and integrals IIRC) was easily my favorite pre-med class. Might just have had a great professor, but my mind was blown a number of times in that class, and it was a pretty easy A. It will help out with physics too.
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Some calc 1 courses only go through derivatives and don't even touch integration. That's crazy to me. We did all that stuff in my calc 1 class. I love calculus. It is easily one of my favorite subjects in mathematics, and it's the reason I loved analysis so much and leaned more towards that side of math.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
Some calc 1 courses only go through derivatives and don't even touch integration. That's crazy to me. We did all that stuff in my calc 1 class. I love calculus. It is easily one of my favorite subjects in mathematics, and it's the reason I loved analysis so much and leaned more towards that side of math.
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How do you have calc one without integrals lol. I'm pretty sure for mine we finished derivatives just on the first exam and then it was all about integrating.
 
freedoctor17 said:
How do you have calc one without integrals lol. I'm pretty sure for mine we finished derivatives just on the first exam and then it was all about integrating.
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No idea. Maybe calc for non-majors? Stops after derivatives. Integration is sort of a really important form of calculus lol.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
No idea. Maybe calc for non-majors? Stops after derivatives. Integration is sort of a really important form of calculus lol.
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That would make sense. My friends who took the non science calc did just a little derivatives and then a bunch of probability and then other random stuff.
 
Matthew9Thirtyfive said:
I mean at that point though you should just call it math for business majors and not calc.
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Yeah i don't really get the way they name the courses sometimes. I had a bio class with ecology in the name and that portion was like 1 weeks worth of lectures out of the 16 week course lol. It's like they weren't sure where to put it so they just combined it with another bio course.
 
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@RNtoMD87 You should be able to test out of Algebra into Pre-Calculus or Calculus (saving you money). There are self-help books for all science classes. There are easier versions for mathematics courses. If you take the harder version (engineering calculus series) there is less room for a mistakes as other students who are in the classes have often have already taken the classes in some form. My calculus tests were similar to my tests in Organic Chemistry. You get a prompt for a problem that needs to be solved through a mathematical concept e.g. optimization that involves multiple steps and need to demonstrate it on three pages of blank paper. There is partial credit, but not knowing how to answer a question will often get you nothing. Is it a fun experience though knowing that you took calc based classes over those algebra alternatives? No. It actually sucked.
 
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I think ill check out some khan academy videos on it. Its something I definitely want to know the basics of, even if I never go deep into it. Its a whole branch of math I've never done.
 
I watched that on another subject I forget which. I think it was mentioned on someone’s YouTube video, maybe Dr. pinesetts
 
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