COVID19 and Vet eLORs

[deleted955210]

Hello everyone,
Surprise surprise, COVID-19 really dampened my plan to get vet experience/an eLOR from a vet.

Now I'm trying to brainstorm what I can do.
Yes, I am actively checking out the VMCAS updates to see who is requiring vet LORs, and I am also aware that some schools simply do not require LORs. I will definitely apply to those 🙂

So my question is... what is your experience getting vet experience/elors right now?
Frankly, I do not feel safe volunteering at a clinic right now. Imo it is too early to start doing that, plus I live with someone with a comorbidity. I am getting my MPH in Epidemiology and I am volunteering remotely for the public health department, but vet schools want vet experience.

I am making plans to talk to admissions counselors, but I also would like to hear about personal experience.


Thank you
*I have edited this post because responses detracted from the actual question*

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[finnickthedog]

Where were you planning to apply? Are those schools relaxing the requirement?

Between the GPA and the not having a vet LOR your options will likely be limited.

And in thinking about applying to those limited options you need to think about whether you'd really want to attend if accepted or if you'd feel like you'd want to try again next year when you have a vet LOR. Because the time to decide that is before you apply. You don't want to be one of the people who is holding an acceptance and wondering whether you actually want to attend that school.

 

[Lupin21]

Indeed, Finn. I would put my efforts into applying next year. Missing gpa and vet hours is severely going to affect your current chances at every school. There will be a red flag in my opinion that all your hours are with a veterinarian that did not provide that elor. I maybe would look at finding some advanced courses online to show a more rigorous class is not a problem for you or other ways to help your academic side of the application.

 

[EB73674]

Just came here to say what others have said - I would strongly suggest waiting until next year. Cautionary tale over here - my GPAs last cycle were quite low, even my last 45 credits, and they truly held me back. While I don't regret what I learned applying last cycle, and I'm so grateful Illinois took a chance on me & gave me an interview, I probably shouldn't have applied at all. Having an extra year of good grades will (I hope) give me the edge I need to actually be a competitive applicant. I know folks get in all the time with lower vet hours or lower GPAs, but trying to overcome BOTH of those things will be somewhat unlikely. Vet school will still be there in a year, and taking a year to focus on maybe taking some upper level science classes and really get a good amount of veterinary experience will be invaluable for you. You can also try to diversify your experience both in species and types of practice, and it will give you a much better foundation from which you can ask for a letter. Don't waste the money on applying if you don't meet requirements or won't be putting your absolute BEST application out there!

 

[deleted955210]

Indeed, Finn. I would put my efforts into applying next year. Missing gpa and vet hours is severely going to affect your current chances at every school. There will be a red flag in my opinion that all your hours are with a veterinarian that did not provide that elor. I maybe would look at finding some advanced courses online to show a more rigorous class is not a problem for you or other ways to help your academic side of the application.

Do you have any outside the box suggestions for vet shadowing? Something you can do remotely?

 

[deleted955210]

Indeed, Finn. I would put my efforts into applying next year. Missing gpa and vet hours is severely going to affect your current chances at every school. There will be a red flag in my opinion that all your hours are with a veterinarian that did not provide that elor. I maybe would look at finding some advanced courses online to show a more rigorous class is not a problem for you or other ways to help your academic side of the application.

Thank you for your response. So the problem with waiting for next year is... we don't know what's going on with the pandemic. Do you have any ideas of how we could garner vet shadowing experience remotely? Have you heard anyone doing that? Yes, it won't be traditional experience, but I'm asking for outside the box ideas, which may be all we can do for the foreseeable future.

 

[Caiter92]

Thank you for your response. So the problem with waiting for next year is... we don't know what's going on with the pandemic. Do you have any ideas of how we could garner vet shadowing experience remotely? Have you heard anyone doing that? Yes, it won't be traditional experience, but I'm asking for outside the box ideas, which may be all we can do for the foreseeable future.

Have you looked in to what the schools you were planning on applying to are doing in regards to vet letters this year? Or if they require vet letters? If they don’t require a vet letter this year, then sure try applying without one. But if they do, really the only option is going to be to wait to apply until you can get more experience with another vet.

I don’t know of any virtual vet experience. There is more free or reduced cost online CE right now, but that’s not going to get you a relationship with a vet that could write you a letter.

 

[battie]

A consideration after looking at the AAVMC list of compiled COVID changes, there are 8 or 9 institutions that are not requiring a DVM letter for the cycle (either because they relaxed the requirement, or don't require it originally), but of those schools, many are abroad. It looked like only three or so were US based. If you are planning on applying to schools abroad, and the worst cause scenario occurs, you will be deferred regardless to the following class because international travel will be banned.

As far as "outside the box vet experience", that is a school by school decision and you'll want to contact them directly and get a real answer. the AAVMC list seems to show schools either not having a required number of hours, lowering their requirement, or saying they will take this time into consideration. My guess is that schools will not consider hours not physically in a clinic as actual hours. If you want to make this summer worthwhile, consider other non-vet med volunteering. As an example, a lot of old folks homes are allowing window visitation with their residents, particularly pet visits from what I've seen.

 

[PippyPony]

My guess is that schools will not consider hours not physically in a clinic as actual hours.

(Not disagreeing, just saying it would be interesting to ask a school to defend that policy in light of their other policies at the moment.)

 

[Caiter92]

(Not disagreeing, just saying it would be interesting to ask a school to defend that policy in light of their other policies at the moment.)

I just can't see a clinic actually going for this though. Like, would the vet carry around their phone on facetime so you could shadow appointments? Or wear a go-pro? The thought is amusing But I just can't see it happening on a regular enough basis to have a relationship that would get you a letter.

 

[JaynaAli]

So does watching 40 episodes of Emergency Vets on animal planet when I was 8 count as 20 hours virtual vet experience? What if it was a rerun I had already seen? I think I also had a computer game where you diagnosed animals.

Before the prevetties get upset: this is a joke.

These are unprecedented times for everyone. I can’t see the requirements changing too much on this front though. The whole purpose of vet experience requirements are to make sure you’ve seen a little of the real side of vet med not just the happy fun stuff. I can see maybe relaxing the requirement a little bit you just can’t get the true feel for what being a vet is like virtually, in my opinion. And even if a school doesn’t require a vet letter, it’s a huge red flag if you don’t have one and I would bet your chances of getting in without one are lower when the vast majority of applicants wil have one. I agree that it’s best to put things off a year if you don’t have one, though I also acknowledge there’s really nothing to lose by applying but money.

 

[Minnerbelle]

So does watching 40 episodes of Emergency Vets on animal planet when I was 8 count as 20 hours virtual vet experience? What if it was a rerun I had already seen? I think I also had a computer game where you diagnosed animals.

Before the prevetties get upset: this is a joke.

Lol.

I think it’s just going to come down to supply and demand. We don’t know what exactly will come of it, but it’s going to depend on how many students they’ll be admitting next cycle. At that point, I would imagine they’ll fill as many seats as they can with whatever caliber of students they can. And how competitive you are will just depend on how competitive all the other applicants are. Everyone is facing the same challenges. Perhaps they will have fewer seats if a number of this year’s class is allowed to and elects to defer a year.

But honestly, if your gpa is in the $hitter and you only have one bad experience with a vet, I dunno if it’s even a good idea for you to start now, even if you are able to gain admission... it sounds like a decision you have a good chance of regretting down the line.

 

[battie]

(Not disagreeing, just saying it would be interesting to ask a school to defend that policy in light of their other policies at the moment.)

I dont think they'd have a problem defending it cause there's nothing else like being physically in the clinic, and current vets are (arguably) in the best position to vouch for someone entering the profession

Not to Pippy specifically, but in general conversation for the thread:

It would take cutting the applicant pool *in half* for schools to let their seats go unfilled.

 

[Minnerbelle]

It would take cutting the applicant pool *in half* for schools to let their seats go unfilled.

But a good portion of that half have no business ever attending vet school...

 

[battie]

But a good portion of that half have no business ever attending vet school...

I totally agree. But I don't think that half of all applicants will be knocked out of this application cycle on the merit of their application being incomplete on its base level. The quality on the other hand would definitely be debatable. Would half of all applicants this specific cycle be of subpar quality compared to the previous, I don't think so. I feel like the number of unqualified applicants probably sits at 25% (as a gut feeling after being on here and APVMA).

I hadn't even thought of deferment being a possibility if things keep going downhill. I do think a lot of people in didactics would apply at my school for sure. For 4th years, I don't think we would have a choice since the AVMA requires 30 weeks in physical clinics. That would have a crazy trickle down effect on the class of 2026.

 

[DVMDream]

So does watching 40 episodes of Emergency Vets on animal planet when I was 8 count as 20 hours virtual vet experience? What if it was a rerun I had already seen? I think I also had a computer game where you diagnosed animals.

I loved that show. I also had a computer game that let me diagnose and treat animals when I was a kid.

Sigh, the good days.


I see the OP edited their original post as they weren't getting answers they wanted. I am going to tell you, you aren't going to likely hear what you want to hear. There is no replacement for in-person experience. There is no replacement for an ELOR from a vet.

Either you decide to chance it and find schools that have removed the veterinary ELOR from their requirements or you wait a year. File this under the life isn't fair category. Or in the line from Boy Meets World "life's tough, get a helmet."

 

[DVMDream]

Aw man, my gif didn't work.... Le sad. 🙁

That's ok, I think I am really showing my age with all these references now.

 

[battie]

So my question is... what is your experience getting vet experience/elors right now?

You actually got good answers, they just are answers that dont encourage you to spend your hard earned money and your time applying this year.

Between the GPA and the not having a vet LOR your options will likely be limited.

I would put my efforts into applying next year. Missing gpa and vet hours is severely going to affect your current chances at every school

I would strongly suggest waiting until next year

But if they do, really the only option is going to be to wait to apply until you can get more experience with another vet.

My guess is that schools will not consider hours not physically in a clinic as actual hours. If you want to make this summer worthwhile, consider other non-vet med volunteering

These are unprecedented times for everyone. I can’t see the requirements changing too much on this front though

But honestly, if your gpa is in the $hitter and you only have one bad experience with a vet, I dunno if it’s even a good idea for you to start now, even if you are able to gain admission... it sounds like a decision you have a good chance of regretting down the line.

There is no replacement for in-person experience. There is no replacement for an ELOR from a vet.

Overall, a ton of vet students and vets are telling you to wait until next year to present the best application you can. The answer to your question is you dont get vet experience (and therefore a vet letter) right now simply because you can't due to unforeseen circumstances.

 

[finnickthedog]

The responses didn't detract from the original question, they answered it. I'm sorry that it wasn't what you wanted to hear but modifying the question isn't going to change the situation. As DVMD said, either take your chances with the few schools that aren't requiring a vet eLOR or wait a year to apply. Those are your options at this point. You cannot count on getting veterinary experience or a vet eLOR before this cycle closes. To be honest, even in a normal year it's cutting it close to be starting a brand new relationship with a veterinarian you hope will write you a letter. This year just adds more of a challenge.

 

[BigCats]

I think a big issue with applying this cycle if you don’t have quality vet experience or a vet LOR is that it doesn’t mean that the rest of the applicants will also be lacking experience. As a personal example, I’m applying this current cycle, and I’ve had to stop my volunteering at multiple clinics since March and actually just heard today that my super-duper-awesome summer internship is officially canceled ( 🙁 ). However, all of these experiences that I’ve missed out on would have been more like the cherry on top rather than the main meat to my application. Like yeah, I really wanted to do them (especially my internship), but I already have good vet experiences in multiple clinics and have had my vet LORs lined up since December, so I don’t think it’s going to make or break my application. You’re going to be competing with a lot of people like me who don’t have any glaring weaknesses on their applications, and though I don’t think it’s completely impossible if some schools have waived their requirements, I don’t think you’ll be setting yourself up for success by applying this cycle.

 

[PippyPony]

I dont think they'd have a problem defending it cause there's nothing else like being physically in the clinic,

Right... but at many vet schools, they are full-on substituting a form of virtual clinical experience for physical clinical experience. At least a few of them have taken the stance that for this year, online clinics = regular clinics, because they are still charging us the same amount and they have reduced in-person time to maintain some semblance of a normal schedule. So my only point was that if a vet school hypothetically told an applicant that online experience is not good experience, then I would hypothetically ask when I get my tuition refund check for my "inferior online experience" haha. (Although I don't even think it's that bad anymore tbh).

Anyways, it doesn't really matter. The only way people are going to really know what schools will consider acceptable this year is to ask them.

 

[itsrocky]

Lizzo is right about most things but she was definitely right that the truth hurts.

 

[DVMDream]

Right... but at many vet schools, they are full-on substituting a form of virtual clinical experience for physical clinical experience. At least a few of them have taken the stance that for this year, online clinics = regular clinics, because they are still charging us the same amount and they have reduced in-person time to maintain some semblance of a normal schedule. So my only point was that if a vet school hypothetically told an applicant that online experience is not good experience, then I would hypothetically ask when I get my tuition refund check for my "inferior online experience" haha. (Although I don't even think it's that bad anymore tbh).

Anyways, it doesn't really matter. The only way people are going to really know what schools will consider acceptable this year is to ask them.

Comparing a few weeks of fourth year vet school online to experience obtained prior to vet school really isn't an apples to apples comparison for so many reasons.

 

[PippyPony]

Comparing a few weeks of fourth year vet school online to experience obtained prior to vet school really isn't an apples to apples comparison for so many reasons.

😕 I'm not making a specific comparison or even talking about anything real, as far as I know. I was musing about a fictional conversation with a fictional school.

 

[DVMDream]

😕 I'm not making a specific comparison or even talking about anything real, as far as I know. I was musing about a fictional conversation with a fictional school.

Oops, I missed the fictional school part. Sorry.

Does it treat unicorns? Because I want to attend then. 🙂 🙂

 

[mmmdreamerz]

So does watching 40 episodes of Emergency Vets on animal planet when I was 8 count as 20 hours virtual vet experience? What if it was a rerun I had already seen? I think I also had a computer game where you diagnosed animals.

Before the prevetties get upset: this is a joke.

These are unprecedented times for everyone. I can’t see the requirements changing too much on this front though. The whole purpose of vet experience requirements are to make sure you’ve seen a little of the real side of vet med not just the happy fun stuff. I can see maybe relaxing the requirement a little bit you just can’t get the true feel for what being a vet is like virtually, in my opinion. And even if a school doesn’t require a vet letter, it’s a huge red flag if you don’t have one and I would bet your chances of getting in without one are lower when the vast majority of applicants wil have one. I agree that it’s best to put things off a year if you don’t have one, though I also acknowledge there’s really nothing to lose by applying but money.

Animal planet was my jam.

 

[mmmdreamerz]

Right... but at many vet schools, they are full-on substituting a form of virtual clinical experience for physical clinical experience. At least a few of them have taken the stance that for this year, online clinics = regular clinics, because they are still charging us the same amount and they have reduced in-person time to maintain some semblance of a normal schedule. So my only point was that if a vet school hypothetically told an applicant that online experience is not good experience, then I would hypothetically ask when I get my tuition refund check for my "inferior online experience" haha. (Although I don't even think it's that bad anymore tbh).

Anyways, it doesn't really matter. The only way people are going to really know what schools will consider acceptable this year is to ask them.

I see what you are saying and it is an interesting thought lol

 

[LyraGardenia]

To be honest, even in a normal year it's cutting it close to be starting a brand new relationship with a veterinarian you hope will write you a letter. This year just adds more of a challenge.

I think a big issue with applying this cycle if you don’t have quality vet experience or a vet LOR is that it doesn’t mean that the rest of the applicants will also be lacking experience. As a personal example, I’m applying this current cycle, and I’ve had to stop my volunteering at multiple clinics since March and actually just heard today that my super-duper-awesome summer internship is officially canceled ( 🙁 ). However, all of these experiences that I’ve missed out on would have been more like the cherry on top rather than the main meat to my application. Like yeah, I really wanted to do them (especially my internship), but I already have good vet experiences in multiple clinics and have had my vet LORs lined up since December, so I don’t think it’s going to make or break my application. You’re going to be competing with a lot of people like me who don’t have any glaring weaknesses on their applications, and though I don’t think it’s completely impossible if some schools have waived their requirements, I don’t think you’ll be setting yourself up for success by applying this cycle.

Agreed. I know a lot of people were counting on this summer to boost their application with a good chunk of experience hours, or experience in a different category, and it does suck to miss out on that. But if you have little to no vet experience and were counting on this summer to build a relationship with a vet to get a LOR? Sorry, but it's too late at this point. A lot of schools recommend that your LORs come from someone who's known you at least a year. I know some people decide on vet med later than others, but you'll be competing against people who decided they wanted to be a vet when they were 5 and have been accumulating vet hours since high school. Shadowing or working in a clinic is so, so important for making sure vet med is right for you, and I don't think there's anything virtual that could make up for it. Waiting a year (or two, if that's what it takes) to apply is not the end of the world.