Crna and status quo

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IlDestriero said:
It looks like this one's run it's course.
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+1
The real MDs of today don't train CRNAs in a way to replace them, most of the residents of today are sick of being disrespected, I can't imagine many of us want to educate CRNAs in the future, let the nurse mills do their mediocre job so their value is seen, I don't care if this means I have to be running around to different rooms, I want my value known
 
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cognitus would appear to be a troll who likes to call people "keyboard warriors."

I doubt they are a student and I doubt they went to a "top ten" MBA program. Just someone trying to stir ****.
 
repititionition said:
Define healthcare economics.
and much of what you said exposes a level of what I'll charitably interpret as misunderstanding.
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The other word for that is "clueless".
 
cognitus said:
Having an MBA makes me increasingly aware of the trend and looking for subspecialties that are more resistant to cost-cutting (those where true value can be demonstrated)
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You think THAT takes an MBA?
 
Physio Doc 2 Be said:
I can't be the only person who wonders about the status of the OP, can I?
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I'm the OP. I actually didn't mean to start a war here. I'm not even a med student. I start next fall, but I've been reading the anesthesia thread for over a year and a half. Is that what you mean by status? I basically started this thread because, although I am just a clueless student, I am frustrated for you guys and the attitude in this country that healthcare is just a factory and the physicians are just a bunch of greedy cogs in the medicine machine.

It always seemed to me that, in order to advance healthcare, we shouldn't hurt those that studied the most to get where they are. Can a CRNA do the technique? Sure , sometimes, and if is cheaper. But what pride does this country have if we just devolve into a lesser quality care just to cut cash. There are other ways to cut costs... Cutting salaries for you guys and allowing people who have 1/2 of your knowledge is definitely NOT improving healthcare. If some of you guys are right and CRNA's will never take over, then good. You guys are saving peoples lives and giving them stable surgeries... I want you to make lots of money!
 
jeffblue said:
My 2 cents

I find it offensive that people suggest that an anesthesiology residency (four yeaars) is just as good a crna education and a fellowship must be obtained to be competitive. This kind of rhetoric will scare off all medical students to the specialty as it should. It just is not true. And if it is true then there are major problems .

A peds fellowship will train you to work at major academic centers doing peds. IF you want to do that, then do a peds fellowship. Reg residency you can do all healthy children. At least it should.
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1. There are major Problems
2. The Fellowship isn't about CRNA encroachment as much as it is long term job security. A unique skill set which not all Anesthesiologists have and which no CRNA can be your equal: Pain, Cardiac, Peds, Critical Care, etc.
 
wjs010 said:
I'm the OP. I actually didn't mean to start a war here. I'm not even a med student. I start next fall, but I've been reading the anesthesia thread for over a year and a half. Is that what you mean by status? I basically started this thread because, although I am just a clueless student, I am frustrated for you guys and the attitude in this country that healthcare is just a factory and the physicians are just a bunch of greedy cogs in the medicine machine.

It always seemed to me that, in order to advance healthcare, we shouldn't hurt those that studied the most to get where they are. Can a CRNA do the technique? Sure , sometimes, and if is cheaper. But what pride does this country have if we just devolve into a lesser quality care just to cut cash. There are other ways to cut costs... Cutting salaries for you guys and allowing people who have 1/2 of your knowledge is definitely NOT improving healthcare. If some of you guys are right and CRNA's will never take over, then good. You guys are saving peoples lives and giving them stable surgeries... I want you to make lots of money!
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I agree with everything you are saying but you dont understand. The powers that be. The g ovt and what know have it backwards. According to them, we ARE the PROBLEM. We are the only reason that healthcare costs so much money. We are t he only ones to blame for every problem healthcare faces. The nurses lobby are taking advantage of this. Now you have nurses with s tethoscopes saying diagnosing and treating and doing procedures is within their realm. We must be stopped. When they cant find someone who is adequately trained then it will come back around. Welcome to the merry go round of american politics. Rather than support the physician assistants and train more of them they are taking nurses away from the bedside and giving them pseudo titles and physician extenders when they do not have the backround to even come close to playing that role.
 
BLADEMDA said:
2. The Fellowship isn't about CRNA encroachment as much as it is long term job security. .
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You do know you have leaders of the ASA stating that if you dont do a fellowship you will be eqivilent to a crna. That is not responsible rhetoric in my opinion.
 
wjs010 said:
I'm the OP. I actually didn't mean to start a war here. I'm not even a med student. I start next fall, but I've been reading the anesthesia thread for over a year and a half. Is that what you mean by status? I basically started this thread because, although I am just a clueless student, I am frustrated for you guys and the attitude in this country that healthcare is just a factory and the physicians are just a bunch of greedy cogs in the medicine machine.

It always seemed to me that, in order to advance healthcare, we shouldn't hurt those that studied the most to get where they are. Can a CRNA do the technique? Sure , sometimes, and if is cheaper. But what pride does this country have if we just devolve into a lesser quality care just to cut cash. There are other ways to cut costs... Cutting salaries for you guys and allowing people who have 1/2 of your knowledge is definitely NOT improving healthcare. If some of you guys are right and CRNA's will never take over, then good. You guys are saving peoples lives and giving them stable surgeries... I want you to make lots of money!
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Whoops, sorry OP. I meant to refer to cognitus, but I screwed up. I apologize for that, that is my error.
 
jeffblue said:
I agree with everything you are saying but you dont understand. The powers that be. The g ovt and what know have it backwards. According to them, we ARE the PROBLEM. We are the only reason that healthcare costs so much money. We are t he only ones to blame for every problem healthcare faces. The nurses lobby are taking advantage of this. Now you have nurses with s tethoscopes saying diagnosing and treating and doing procedures is within their realm. We must be stopped. When they cant find someone who is adequately trained then it will come back around. Welcome to the merry go round of american politics. Rather than support the physician assistants and train more of them they are taking nurses away from the bedside and giving them pseudo titles and physician extenders when they do not have the backround to even come close to playing that role.
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So what can be done about this? Or is it inevitable?
 
I am not a medical student. You are correct there. Also, I don't mean to insult any anesthesiologists in there. I admire the training and the field and plan to pursue it. All of my comments simply reflect that the perception about the field and potentially compensation could be changing. I just want to position myself well for that so I can continue to receive the compensation for my years of hard work. I just get annoyed when folks come at me at an aggressive manner and I bark back. However, no disrespect to the profession or any of its practitioners intended.
 
cognitus said:
I am not a medical student. You are correct there. Also, I don't mean to insult any anesthesiologists in there. I admire the training and the field and plan to pursue it. All of my comments simply reflect that the perception about the field and potentially compensation could be changing. I just want to position myself well for that so I can continue to receive the compensation for my years of hard work. I just get annoyed when folks come at me at an aggressive manner and I bark back. However, no disrespect to the profession or any of its practitioners intended.
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I know what you mean. Also, something that middle-ages anesthesiologists have to consider is that, these days, the younger students are paying hundreds of thousands to even go to med school, in addition to proposed cuts in salary. So it is very important to balance what you love and are most interested in with what will provide the most dough for yourself and or family. If med school cost $5k like it used to, I think we would all choose something that we absolutely loved 😀 however, if some of the docs in here are right and anesthesiology never goes below $250k,I think nobody will be afraid of that kind of salary. Still hope- not for the money, but for the future of gas and the advances in patient care- that the current physicians will have hard enough balls to stand up and prevent political downpour. If other professions can do it, so can physicians. I do actually understand that a big reason that physicians don't stand up more is because they don't have time... They are too busy handling cases and saving peoples lives.
 
cognitus said:
I personally am choosing anesthesiology for the reasonable work-life balance relative to the pay. I think it's reasonable to desire a good work-life balance and while I have articulated such, you don't have any indication what specifically an optimal work-life balance means for me. I haven't said anything about that. Does it include 4 calls a month? 10 calls/month? No calls? Haven't said. At the same time, I'm becoming increasingly aware that economic trends may catch up to anesthesiology and some of you may be replaced by CRNAs because you don't contribute any more value than they do. Some of you think that because we have the MD and at least 4 years of training after that justifies our higher salaries compared to CRNAs. I don't think extra years of training is enough if there is no visible benefit from them. Some say our training is better once **** hits the fan, but how often does that happen? Does the small likelihood of that happening justify double the salary in some cases? I'm just not sure if that's sustainable.

I think as someone entering anesthesiology, you have to have the passion AND be aware of the economic issues facing the industry. I think too many doctors on here have the former but are now bitter because they didn't consider the latter and have screwed themselves. If doing a fellowship justifies my added value over CRNAs, so be it. I will pursue a fellowship. And the subspecialty I choose will have the optimal work-life balance for me.
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Obviously a troll…."no visible benefit"? You have clearly never worked along side a CRNA fresh out a training…..there is a glaring benefit….and if you are already an anesthesiologist and disagree I suggest you do a little self assessment. And people will bring up opt-out which has really turned out to really mean nothing except for an easier way to bill for a CRNA. If I was a nurse looking for autonomy in decision making and increasing skill set I would not recommend becoming a CRNA anymore I would become a NP in critical care. The NPs in critical have have much more autonomy in both decision making and procedures….with a much greater need. If you are fine doing MACs and basic anesthetics with an occasional big case in which you are completely lost in understanding the logic and implications of the anesthesiologists performing the anesthetic become a CRNA. Just my two cents. And I agree with everyone else on this thread you will not be happy in anesthesia because you will not be able to take minimal call and make as much money as you are suggesting. If you want to make 400k and be in the hospital 60hrs a week with additional home call 1-2 times a week when you could be called in then maybe consider the field if you like the hyper acute medicine involved with anesthesia…otherwise I would suggest a specialty like GI.
 
Stank811 said:
Obviously a troll…."no visible benefit"? You have clearly never worked along side a CRNA fresh out a training…..there is a glaring benefit….and if you are already an anesthesiologist and disagree I suggest you do a little self assessment. And people will bring up opt-out which has really turned out to really mean nothing except for an easier way to bill for a CRNA. If I was a nurse looking for autonomy in decision making and increasing skill set I would not recommend becoming a CRNA anymore I would become a NP in critical care. The NPs in critical have have much more autonomy in both decision making and procedures….with a much greater need. If you are fine doing MACs and basic anesthetics with an occasional big case in which you are completely lost in understanding the logic and implications of the anesthesiologists performing the anesthetic become a CRNA. Just my two cents. And I agree with everyone else on this thread you will not be happy in anesthesia because you will not be able to take minimal call and make as much money as you are suggesting. If you want to make 400k and be in the hospital 60hrs a week with additional home call 1-2 times a week when you could be called in then maybe consider the field if you like the hyper acute medicine involved with anesthesia…otherwise I would suggest a specialty like GI.
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I hope you have major surgery that requires general anesthesia, which includes desflurane. I hope that from this desflurane, you get malignant hyperthermia and you succumb to it because the hospital that you are getting this major surgery from has run out of dantrolene. Then, I can post on here without worrying about your retorts.
 
cognitus said:
I hope you have major surgery that requires general anesthesia, which includes desflurane. I hope that from this desflurane, you get malignant hyperthermia and you succumb to it because the hospital that you are getting this major surgery from has run out of dantrolene. Then, I can post on here without worrying about your retorts.
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As opposed to your malignant normothermia?
 
cognitus said:
I hope you have major surgery that requires general anesthesia, which includes desflurane. I hope that from this desflurane, you get malignant hyperthermia and you succumb to it because the hospital that you are getting this major surgery from has run out of dantrolene. Then, I can post on here without worrying about your retorts.
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obvious troll crna trying to scare potential med studs from going into the highly lucrative field of anesthesiology. go away loser...
 
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