CRNA salaries dropping while anesthesiology increasing

[Taurus]

See bolded quotes below. Basic law of supply and demand. CRNA salaries dropping while anesthesiology increasing. CRNA's don't compete in the same league as anesthesiologists. CRNA's compete with AA's. Let's keep up the pressure by expanding the AA's.

Internists' Salaries Rise; Surgeons' Continue to Fall
John Commins, for HealthLeaders Media, August 5, 2010

Radiologists and anesthesiologists remain among the best paid physicians, but internists received large pay increases in the past year, according to the 2010 LocumTenens.com Physician's Salary Survey.

The survey, conducted this spring, received responses from 1,703 physicians and Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist (CRNAs).

It found that internists' salaries in 2010 averaged $191,864, a 6.6% increase over the $179,958 average salary in 2009. However, internists' annual salaries remain well below that of subspecialists like radiologists, who reported an average salary of $398,571 in 2010, up 5.1% from the 379,140 average reported in 2009.

The survey also found that anesthesiologists reported an average salary of $362,450 in 2010, up 2% from the $355,264 reported in 2009; psychiatrists' salaries averaged $202,975, up from $201,683 in 2009; surgeons' average salaries fell from $287,520 in 2009, to $284,642 in 2010. Since 2007, surgeons' average salaries have fallen $7,462, or 2.5%, from $292,104 to $284,642, according to the LocumTenens survey.

Certified registered nurse anesthetists also saw their average salaries fall from $178,068 in 2007, to $169,043 in 2009, to $166,833 in 2010, an overall drop in the last four years of $11,235, or 6.3%.

The Alpharetta, GA-based physician recruiting firm also provides salary breakdowns by region, years in practice, and gender. Survey respondents are physicians who practice on a locum tenens basis as well as those with permanent salaries. Respondent demographics included in the reports include region of practice, board certification, and time frame for making next job change.

In a separate survey released last week, the American Medical Group Association found that 76% of all specialties saw an increase in compensation, with the overall weighted average increase of approximately 3.4%. The primary care specialties' (excluding hospitalists) average compensation increase was about 3.8%. Other medical specialties had on average a 2.4% increase, and surgical specialties had a 3.8% average increase.

The Locum Tenens findings are also in line with those issued in mid-July by Dallas-based physician recruiters Merritt Hawkins, which noted that recruiting was down in 2009-10 for the first time in the 17-year history of the survey, even though there is nothing to suggest that demand has abated.​

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[Consigliere]

Nice.

 

[urge]

Working 3 days a week. No weekends, no call. Based on hourly pay they probably are ahead of everybody.

 

[seinfeld]

In my neck of the woods where demand for all providers is high, CRNA hourly rate is increasing and mine continues to decline, i just work more hours to keep the same salary !!!!!!

 

[AbbyNormal]

CRNA's don't compete in the same league as anesthesiologists. CRNA's compete with AA's. Let's keep up the pressure by expanding the AA's.]

I don't understand this statement. If CRNAs do not compete with anesthesiologists but rather with AAs why would you want to limit CRNAs? (Unless you are an AA)

Honest question.

 

[BLADEMDA]

In my neck of the woods where demand for all providers is high, CRNA hourly rate is increasing and mine continues to decline, i just work more hours to keep the same salary !!!!!!

I personally know CRNAs who work Independently in Cow Town USA that earn in excess of $250K 1099. Cow Town pays well.

 

[jwk]

Working 3 days a week. No weekends, no call. Based on hourly pay they probably are ahead of everybody.

Entirely individual-practice dependent. I work 5 days/wk, pull my share of call including weekends, evenings, nights, and holidays. My average week is probably 50-55 hours, and 75 is not unusual if I have a weekend shift. That's actual work, not just available on call from home.

 

[Consigliere]

Entirely individual-practice dependent. I work 5 days/wk, pull my share of call including weekends, evenings, nights, and holidays. My average week is probably 50-55 hours, and 75 is not unusual if I have a weekend shift. That's actual work, not just available on call from home.

Are you salaried or do you get paid by the hour? Reason I ask is because our CRNAs our always yelling about how they work 50 hour weeks. Thing of it is, any time after 40 hours is considered "overtime" and they get paid 1.5 times their base rate.

 

[jwk]

Are you salaried or do you get paid by the hour? Reason I ask is because our CRNAs our always yelling about how they work 50 hour weeks. Thing of it is, any time after 40 hours is considered "overtime" and they get paid 1.5 times their base rate.

Salary + OT, although my OT rate is nowhere near what 1.5x would be. I never complain about the OT, not with a kid in college.

 

[Consigliere]

Salary + OT, although my OT rate is nowhere near what 1.5x would be. I never complain about the OT, not with a kid in college.

Thanks. I'm willing to bet that MOST if not ALL CRNAs working > 40 hours/wk are getting overtime. Not too bad....

 

[jwk]

Thanks. I'm willing to bet that MOST if not ALL CRNAs working > 40 hours/wk are getting overtime. Not too bad....

I was mainly commenting on Urge's comment about the 3 days/wk, no weekends, no call. That doesn't describe my practice, nor many of the ones with which I'm familiar, most of which are admittedly private practice. We stress to our anesthesia students coming through that this is a 24/7 career, that you should expect to work nights, weekends, holidays, and take call, especially early in your career. That's called paying your dues. For many of us, especially in smaller practices, NOT taking call was never an option. You did, or you didn't work there. We weren't interested in hiring anyone who didn't want to do their fair share of the work.

 

[IlDestriero]

I was mainly commenting on Urge's comment about the 3 days/wk, no weekends, no call. That doesn't describe my practice, nor many of the ones with which I'm familiar, most of which are admittedly private practice. We stress to our anesthesia students coming through that this is a 24/7 career, that you should expect to work nights, weekends, holidays, and take call, especially early in your career. That's called paying your dues. For many of us, especially in smaller practices, NOT taking call was never an option. You did, or you didn't work there. We weren't interested in hiring anyone who didn't want to do their fair share of the work.

Our CRNAs work 40 hours/wk, no call, no weekends. We almost never ask one to stay to get overtime. I'm sure they get paid less than others taking call. They all, afaik, also do some part time work at other facilities.

 

[urge]

Our CRNAs work 40 hours/wk, no call, no weekends. We almost never ask one to stay to get overtime. I'm sure they get paid less than others taking call. They all, afaik, also do some part time work at other facilities.

Yeah, dude. That's the way to do it. Get a 3 days/week full time job plus do a 24hr/week shift in another institution. Of course more than half the 24hr shift you will spend sleeping, the other half you spend bitching how you need the lightest assignment because you are on in house call.

At the end of the day you make over 300k/year working 4 days a week with minimal liability. How many of you can do that? Suckers!!

 

[rem6775]

Okay, maybe this will sound really stupid, but I have to bring it up: Why in the world are CRNAs paid hourly? I don't get it. I have a really difficult time thinking of any job out there where you get paid 150-200k and are paid hourly. It just seems ridiculous to me. If you were in business of some sort, banking, finance, etc. and were making 200k, you would be salaried and would expect to work as much as they wanted you to. Most of those people would be working a lot. Other professionals that would be making that much would also be salaried and be expected to work a significant amount.

Why exactly is this different with CRNAs? Is there some sort of thing I don't know about which explains why all nurses are hourly?

 

[bronx43]

Okay, maybe this will sound really stupid, but I have to bring it up: Why in the world are CRNAs paid hourly? I don't get it. I have a really difficult time thinking of any job out there where you get paid 150-200k and are paid hourly. It just seems ridiculous to me. If you were in business of some sort, banking, finance, etc. and were making 200k, you would be salaried and would expect to work as much as they wanted you to. Most of those people would be working a lot. Other professionals that would be making that much would also be salaried and be expected to work a significant amount.

Why exactly is this different with CRNAs? Is there some sort of thing I don't know about which explains why all nurses are hourly?

Most shift work is paid hourly. ER physicians are paid by shifts and hours, and they pull $200k+. *I'm not drawing any parallels between the two other than the nature of their compensation.

 

[Bertelman]

Okay, maybe this will sound really stupid, but I have to bring it up: Why in the world are CRNAs paid hourly?

Because they are nurses, and nurses are paid hourly.

 

[rem6775]

Right, but why do all nurses have to be paid hourly? That just seems stupid to me unless there is some rule I am unaware of that requires this (which seems unlikely).

 

[ewesleye]

Just an FYI, not all CRNA's are paid hourly. There are many salaried CRNA's out there. Compensation can be very different depending on work environment and situation. Not all CRNA's work 3 days a week or 40hour/week too. Some have call, some don't. Some do weekends/holidays and some don't, some work in ACT practices with MDA's and some work independent. There is a lot of variety out there in pay and work nature.

I'm not a CRNA just to be clear, but I have done a lot of talking with them and reading up on the subject.

 

[IlDestriero]

Just an FYI, not all CRNA's are paid hourly. There are many salaried CRNA's out there. Compensation can be very different depending on work environment and situation. Not all CRNA's work 3 days a week or 40hour/week too. Some have call, some don't. Some do weekends/holidays and some don't, some work in ACT practices with MDA's and some work independent. There is a lot of variety out there in pay and work nature.

I'm not a CRNA just to be clear, but I have done a lot of talking with them and reading up on the subject.

Ours are salaried, salaried to work 40 hrs per week, with overtime thereafter.
Thanks for clearing that up...
Nice first post. Good luck with "medical school" applications.

 

[ProRealDoc]

Right, but why do all nurses have to be paid hourly? That just seems stupid to me unless there is some rule I am unaware of that requires this (which seems unlikely).

Their hourly rate should not be more than $50/hr in my opinion.

 

[okayplayer]

Ours are salaried, salaried to work 40 hrs per week, with overtime thereafter.
Thanks for clearing that up...
Nice first post. Good luck with "medical school" applications.

haha

 

[jwk]

Ours are salaried, salaried to work 40 hrs per week, with overtime thereafter.

That's the way ours works, and a lot of others. I'm guessing that's very common in private practice groups, and perhaps academics. Hospital-employed anesthetists are more likely to be hourly employees.

Their hourly rate should not be more than $50/hr in my opinion.

That would of course satisfy your desire to be an all-MD group.

The big complaint about Medicare reimbursement is of course that it doesn't cover costs. The Medicare rates in Atlanta are something like $17 and change per unit, so at $70 or so per hour, like so many others, we PAY for the privilege of taking care of Medicare patients. That doesn't cover anesthetist costs, much less the docs, and the ever-increasing administrative costs of a group practice.

The independent CRNA's will tell you they'll be glad to take that $70 an hour. Total BS. That's a 1099 gross of $140k a year before any expenses. Ain't gonna happen.

 

[sevo85288]

Many of the large CRNA employers in Ca (the big HMO here is Kaiser) are realizing how expensive it is to have CRNAs. They are asking the physicians to work more because it is cheaper. Hiring of CRNAs are tapered off, because of high cost, of OT and benefits. Physicians do more with less and no OT, etc. CRNA errors have also cost some employers big $$$, easier to shift risk to M.D.

 

[cfdavid]

Many of the large CRNA employers in Ca (the big HMO here is Kaiser) are realizing how expensive it is to have CRNAs. They are asking the physicians to work more because it is cheaper. Hiring of CRNAs are tapered off, because of high cost, of OT and benefits. Physicians do more with less and no OT, etc. CRNA errors have also cost some employers big $$$, easier to shift risk to M.D.

I see this gaining momentum, for sure.

In my neck of the woods, I've spoken to several recent nurse anesthetists whom have told me that the sign on bonuses of just a few years ago are a mirrage. Also, how lucky they felt to land a (still good paying mind you) job in the area at all.

This is purely anecdotal, but....

 

[kmurp]

This number is well above what I see CRNAs paid around my area. Way way more than we pay.Ours take no call, so I'm guessing that these quoted numbers are for positions that have alot of call? With health insurance @ $12k and 15% retirement, that's an annual cost of $200,00 per CRNA. If you are in an area committed to the 1:4 ratio ACT your CRNA demand might inflate compensation. Even so, working 1:4 might be more lucrative with high CRNA compensation than lowering your ratios.

 

[PICUPNP]

Their hourly rate should not be more than $50/hr in my opinion.

Hell, I make more than that as a PNP! Good Luck with that

 

[ProRealDoc]

Hell, I make more than that as a PNP! Good Luck with that

Capitalism is only as faithful as its options.

 

[pgg]

Their hourly rate should not be more than $50/hr in my opinion.



Capitalism is only as faithful as its options.

Capitalism is all about free markets, supply & demand - which means CRNAs around here earn close to 3x the hourly wage you think they should. MDs earn substantially more, but the hospitals pay to keep the ORs open.