CRNA vs. MD Anesthesiologist Income in 2015

[Ignatius J]

Correct. The per Unit charge for anesthesia is up 30-50% since 2009. This means private practice income should be in excess of $450-$500K (plus the benefit package). The fact that someone on here thinks $360 or even $400K represents an "increase" in compensation since 2009 is truly ignorant. This is why I stress one should seek out true private practice rather than an "employee" position. As of 2016 there are still opportunities out there in the private sector.

I think bundled payments will hurt AMCs severely. Their insurance company leverage will poof into thin air.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[aneftp]

Correct. The per Unit charge for anesthesia is up 30-50% since 2009. This means private practice income should be in excess of $450-$500K (plus the benefit package). The fact that someone on here thinks $360 or even $400K represents an "increase" in compensation since 2009 is truly ignorant. This is why I stress one should seek out true private practice rather than an "employee" position. As of 2016 there are still opportunities out there in the private sector.

Agree. It depends on the payer mix.

Obviously a poor Medicare/Medicaid payer mix a large AMC cannot negotiate or leverage their "bigness".

My friend group was the first to sell out and now similar groups are getting double as much in the buyout. But their payer mix in 2007/2008 was around 55-60% commercial. Now it's down to 40-45% commercial.

I think bundled payments will hurt AMCs severely. Their insurance company leverage will poof into thin air.

U really think so? Bundle payments is a Medicare initiative by the government. Since AMCs have zero clout in Medicare payment rates (single payer). It won't affect them. AMCs biggest advantage is in commercial insurance market. The more Medicare. The less effect the squeeze on them with bundle payments. Anesthesia gets paid 30 cents on the dollar in Medicare units compared to commercial. Surgeons and other specialities get 50-60 cents on the dollar with Medicare I believe? So anesthesia won't be affected much with bundled Medicare payments since payments are already ridiculously low.

 

[Wiscoblue]

What happens when commercial insurances go bundled?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[deleted126335]

It is not only total compensation. People are working harder to maintain that compensation. The security of that compensation is more tenuous than ever. The security of ownership is disappearing. Almost everyone is nervous. With good reason.

 

[Consigliere]

It is not only total compensation. People are working harder to maintain that compensation. The security of that compensation is more tenuous than ever. The security of ownership is disappearing. Almost everyone is nervous. With good reason.

Now here's a guy who knows what the hell he's talking about!

 

[deansrv72]

What source is this data from? I can assure you these are not the common numbers in non-indy/1099 type positions.



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[aneftp]

What source is this data from? I can assure you these are not the common numbers in non-indy/1099 type positions.



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

There is so much data to support $160k w2 is the "average annual wage"

Here is another example

http://www.rntobsn.org/careers/certified-nurse-anesthetist/

Health benefits employer subsidize is $6000-8000 these days. Plus employer pays half their share self employment taxes plus average 6 weeks of crna vacation is paid.

That's why CRNA is the best paying job for the education/hours worked.

 

[GravelRider]

Now here's a guy who knows what the hell he's talking about!

Almost...

Not everyone is working harder. Some are working less hard and employing a bunch of suckers to work more while they steal the earnings off the back of the workers. They earn more by playing golf. Workload has increased, but instead of working more to maintain their lifestyle they employ people and skim off their earnings with nothing to justify it other than they were there first.

 

[aneftp]

Almost...

Not everyone is working harder. Some are working less hard and employing a bunch of suckers to work more while they steal the earnings off the back of the workers. They earn more by playing golf. Workload has increased, but instead of working more to maintain their lifestyle they employ people and skim off their earnings with nothing to justify it other than they were there first.

Most of those guys (fat cats) know their days are numbered. That's why they are selling out. Because most know anesthesia contracts have zero inherent value if they lose the contract. More the reason to sell out and work 3-5 years for an AMC and get cash out of the deal.

We all know those fat cats. One of the last fat cats (basically 2 super partners) essentially gave their "employees" 1 week notice that Sheridan was taking over July 1st. He got millions off the deal. And than claims they must stay since their current contract was "assignable".

But by giving them less than 1 week notice. He cornered them cause most people need 60-90 days to plan to get a new job. He knows it. The people relying on income need it and are trapped.

Just nasty.

 

[Ignatius J]

Agree. It depends on the payer mix.

Obviously a poor Medicare/Medicaid payer mix a large AMC cannot negotiate or leverage their "bigness".

My friend group was the first to sell out and now similar groups are getting double as much in the buyout. But their payer mix in 2007/2008 was around 55-60% commercial. Now it's down to 40-45% commercial.


U really think so? Bundle payments is a Medicare initiative by the government. Since AMCs have zero clout in Medicare payment rates (single payer). It won't affect them. AMCs biggest advantage is in commercial insurance market. The more Medicare. The less effect the squeeze on them with bundle payments. Anesthesia gets paid 30 cents on the dollar in Medicare units compared to commercial. Surgeons and other specialities get 50-60 cents on the dollar with Medicare I believe? So anesthesia won't be affected much with bundled Medicare payments since payments are already ridiculously low.

Yes, I think the trend will be towards insurances following suit with bundled payments as a means of costs-savings. Much harder for AMCs to undercut that way. Costs will be saved and distributed by a collaborative model of getting patients out and discharged in a cohesive, safe way.

 

[deleted162650]

Generally speaking I don't have a problem with people choosing to sell their business as they see fit, but ^^ that is fuggin cold. What a douchenozzle.

 

[GravelRider]

Most of those guys (fat cats) know their days are numbered. That's why they are selling out. Because most know anesthesia contracts have zero inherent value if they lose the contract. More the reason to sell out and work 3-5 years for an AMC and get cash out of the deal.

We all know those fat cats. One of the last fat cats (basically 2 super partners) essentially gave their "employees" 1 week notice that Sheridan was taking over July 1st. He got millions off the deal. And than claims they must stay since their current contract was "assignable".

But by giving them less than 1 week notice. He cornered them cause most people need 60-90 days to plan to get a new job. He knows it. The people relying on income need it and are trapped.

Just nasty.

People should pool their money and sue him. Talk to a lawyer, make something up. You probably lose, but make him have to work for that money. I just don't understand the passivity. Unionize, organize. There is strength in numbers. Then go slash his tires or have a more mature discussion in the parking lot with no one around...

 

[Ignatius J]

People should pool their money and sue him. Talk to a lawyer, make something up. You probably lose, but make him have to work for that money. I just don't understand the passivity. Unionize, organize. There is strength in numbers. Then go slash his tires or have a more mature discussion in the parking lot with no one around...

Anesthesiologists should have cash available for short term disability, emergencies, etc.

They should all have just quit in unison. If they couldn't coordinate that, it's on them.

 

[aneftp]

Anesthesiologists should have cash available for short term disability, emergencies, etc.

They should all have just quit in unison. If they couldn't coordinate that, it's on them.

If all quit at the same time. Than it works.

Except everyone is in a different financial situation (mortgage, kids, school loans, ex wives etc)

 

[GravelRider]

Anesthesiologists should have cash available for short term disability, emergencies, etc.

They should all have just quit in unison. If they couldn't coordinate that, it's on them.

Agreed....but, a lot of times it's new grads with over 200k in student debt and not much saved who get caught in these situations. These despicable groups really do prey on new grads...they have no financial freedom to walk on a bad situation and they often are not aware that they are being undervalued and taken advantage of.

I still think forming a quick makeshift Union in a situation like this could be fruitful. Imagine the hospital administrator's reaction when you say they will have to cancel surgery for the next few weeks. Sure, they can get locums there in a hurry, but not after bleeding a few million bucks.

 

[pjl]

Agreed....but, a lot of times it's new grads with over 200k in student debt and not much saved who get caught in these situations. These despicable groups really do prey on new grads...they have no financial freedom to walk on a bad situation and they often are not aware that they are being undervalued and taken advantage of.

I still think forming a quick makeshift Union in a situation like this could be fruitful. Imagine the hospital administrator's reaction when you say they will have to cancel surgery for the next few weeks. Sure, they can get locums there in a hurry, but not after bleeding a few million bucks.

Within 6 months I could have walked if this had been done at my practice and I didnt want to stay. Loans are not an excuse for not building an emergency fund.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

 

[GravelRider]

Within 6 months I could have walked if this had been done at my practice and I didnt want to stay. Loans are not an excuse for not building an emergency fund.


Sent from my iPad using SDN mobile app

Who isn't building an emergency fund? It's easy to talk about walking away from a bad situation until you are actually faced with a real prospect of having no income and relying on finite savings. I agree that the people in this situation should have walked. I am simply stating why new grads are easy pickings for these despicable pieces of cr@p.

 

[Ignatius J]

Agreed....but, a lot of times it's new grads with over 200k in student debt and not much saved who get caught in these situations. These despicable groups really do prey on new grads...they have no financial freedom to walk on a bad situation and they often are not aware that they are being undervalued and taken advantage of.

I still think forming a quick makeshift Union in a situation like this could be fruitful. Imagine the hospital administrator's reaction when you say they will have to cancel surgery for the next few weeks. Sure, they can get locums there in a hurry, but not after bleeding a few million bucks.

True. Have to have your guard up when looking for a job.

 

[Scotty_G]

Anesthesia doctors are quite greedy Don't feel bad young attns get taken advantage of in other fields too. I've heard some horror stories in regards to ortho practices. What you need are younger attns in academic places to teach the residents the basics. As in don't take this dam contract unless you have no choice!!! The older attns don't give a ****.

 

[deansrv72]

There is so much data to support $160k w2 is the "average annual wage"

Here is another example

http://www.rntobsn.org/careers/certified-nurse-anesthetist/

Health benefits employer subsidize is $6000-8000 these days. Plus employer pays half their share self employment taxes plus average 6 weeks of crna vacation is paid.

That's why CRNA is the best paying job for the education/hours worked.

I won't pretend to know if these numbers include benefits/contributions/etc. But still, is it not arguable the actual value a CRNA brings to the bottom line?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Ignatius J]

I won't pretend to know if these numbers include benefits/contributions/etc. But still, is it not arguable the actual value a CRNA brings to the bottom line?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

In an ACT model, yes, depending on how efficient the ORs are. A salaried cRNA not being utilized isn't good. An independent cRNA practice would be a little murkier, now needing malpractice and scheduling overhead as well as accounting for calls, weekends, holidays, etc.

I heard of some cRNAs coming from an independent model recently and they were interviewed for a nice spot at an ambulatory center with an ACT model. They were essentially asking for anesthesiologist compensation in accordance with the previous gig.

Would love for someone to post salaries of these independent cRNA practices. I do not have that info. I imagine it is well over $200K.

 

[aneftp]

In an ACT model, yes, depending on how efficient the ORs are. A salaried cRNA not being utilized isn't good. An independent cRNA practice would be a little murkier, now needing malpractice and scheduling overhead as well as accounting for calls, weekends, holidays, etc.

I heard of some cRNAs coming from an independent model recently and they were interviewed for a nice spot at an ambulatory center with an ACT model. They were essentially asking for anesthesiologist compensation in accordance with the previous gig.

Would love for someone to post salaries of these independent cRNA practices. I do not have that info. I imagine it is well over $200K.

It's not secret how much true "independent CRNA" make. The AANA loves to promote the fact that crnas are "cheaper and more cost effective". Yet the real facts are that at most rural hospital (which only do 20-30 cases a week (excludes GI). The full time crnas only practices at those places make in the low 300s or high 200s. And it's light. Not busy. Trust me. I know a few of them. Plus factor in Medicare "pass though" dollars. The "real cost" to employ those "independent" crnas is not much different than what anesthesiogists make ($350-475k)

Now the "busy" CRNA only practices who do their own billing or have their own subsidies. They make in the 400s.

That's why crnas aren't "cheaper" in independent practice.

 

[amLOLdipine]

It's not secret how much true "independent CRNA" make. The AANA loves to promote the fact that crnas are "cheaper and more cost effective". Yet the real facts are that at most rural hospital (which only do 20-30 cases a week (excludes GI). The full time crnas only practices at those places make in the low 300s or high 200s. And it's light. Not busy. Trust me. I know a few of them. Plus factor in Medicare "pass though" dollars. The "real cost" to employ those "independent" crnas is not much different than what anesthesiogists make ($350-475k)

Now the "busy" CRNA only practices who do their own billing or have their own subsidies. They make in the 400s.

That's why crnas aren't "cheaper" in independent practice.

Why haven't hospital systems picked up on this?

 

[Ignatius J]

Why haven't hospital systems picked up on this?

I think a lot of them have. There are plenty of opt out states and still not a lot of cRNA solo practices other than in underserved areas to my knowledge.

 

[aneftp]

Completench

Why haven't hospital systems picked up on this?

Completency. Don't want to rock the boat.

That's the thing. One of those CRNA only hospital even does hearts. Guess who does the TEE? The cardiologist. They get $$$($600-1000) as a "consult" intraop.

Spread the wealth mentality. Cardiologist get paid. Hospital gets extra federal money. CRNA gets paid.

 

[Man o War]

I think a lot of them have. There are plenty of opt out states and still not a lot of cRNA solo practices other than in underserved areas to my knowledge.

Yep. There were 2 CRNA only groups in my area that got ousted in favor of an AMC running ACT models just last year. Why would they have only nurses when they can get physician expertise for the same price?

 

[Carbocation1]

8 latest notes on anesthesiologist pay
Written by Anuja Vaidya | July 07, 2016

On average, anesthesiologists earn $275,742 in the United States, according to Payscale.com.

Here are eight notes on anesthesiologist salary:

1. Anesthesiologist salary ranges from $102,920 to $397,420.

2. Anesthesiologists receive bonuses up to $61,971.

3. Profit-sharing among anesthesiologists ranges from $3,444 to $55,369.

4. Total pay for anesthesiologists falls between $102,617 and $408,872.

5. Entry-level anesthesiologists usually earn $252,000.

6. Anesthesiologists with five to 10 years of experience typically receive $293,000.

7. Income for experienced anesthesiologists (10 to 20 years of experience) averages $304,000.

8. Late in their career, after 20 years, anesthesiologists typically earn $327,000.

http://www.beckersasc.com/anesthesia/8-latest-notes-on-anesthesiologist-pay.html

 

[Carbocation1]

Anesthesiologist Salary
(United States)
An Anesthesiologist earns an average salary of $275,743 per year. Skills that are associated with high pay for this job are Obstetrical Anesthesia and Critical Care.

Nurse Anesthetist (CRNA) Salary
(United States)
A Nurse Anesthetist (CRNA) earns an average salary of $136,937 per year.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Anesthesiologist/Salary

 

[BLADEMDA]

8 latest notes on anesthesiologist pay
Written by Anuja Vaidya | July 07, 2016

On average, anesthesiologists earn $275,742 in the United States, according to Payscale.com.

Here are eight notes on anesthesiologist salary:

1. Anesthesiologist salary ranges from $102,920 to $397,420.

2. Anesthesiologists receive bonuses up to $61,971.

3. Profit-sharing among anesthesiologists ranges from $3,444 to $55,369.

4. Total pay for anesthesiologists falls between $102,617 and $408,872.

5. Entry-level anesthesiologists usually earn $252,000.

6. Anesthesiologists with five to 10 years of experience typically receive $293,000.

7. Income for experienced anesthesiologists (10 to 20 years of experience) averages $304,000.

8. Late in their career, after 20 years, anesthesiologists typically earn $327,000.

http://www.beckersasc.com/anesthesia/8-latest-notes-on-anesthesiologist-pay.html

That isn't correct.

1. Salary range- $100K- $1.2 million. Median is $360-$380k which most achieve after 36 months or less.

2. Bonuses? Total salary/pay should exceed $400K in private practice plus $60-$70K benefit package

3. Profit Sharing- Again part of total compensation. K-1 distrubtions (look it up) are common.

4. Total Pay- With benefits Total Compensation package is over $420K

5. Entry level- If a partnership track then yes $250K but if an employee for a management company then $300K is typical entry or even higher once Board Certified.

6. Wrong- $380K

7. Wrong- Income after 10 years is the same regardless if you work another 30 years. In fact, income starts to fall at some point after 25-30 years for many MDs.

8. It's not income which matters most once you are over 55 it is the amount of work/hours that you must do to get the money. So, older anesthesiologist may or may not be full-time or taking call late in their careers. Salary metrics must be looked at vs work-load.

Please do not post misinformation especially since you are uninformed on the topic.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

That isn't correct.

1. Salary range- $100K- $1.2 million. Median is $360-$380k which most achieve after 36 months or less.

2. Bonuses? Total salary/pay should exceed $400K in private practice plus $60-$70K benefit package

3. Profit Sharing- Again part of total compensation. K-1 distrubtions (look it up) are common.

4. Total Pay- With benefits Total Compensation package is over $420K

5. Entry level- If a partnership track then yes $250K but if an employee for a management company then $300K is typical entry or even higher once Board Certified.

6. Wrong- $380K

7. Wrong- Income after 10 years is the same regardless if you work another 30 years. In fact, income starts to fall at some point after 25-30 years for many MDs.

8. It's not income which matters most once you are over 55 it is the amount of work/hours that you must do to get the money. So, older anesthesiologist may or may not be full-time or taking call late in their careers. Salary metrics must be looked at vs work-load.

Please do not post misinformation especially since you are uninformed on the topic.

I don't necessarily agree with everything that Blade put forth but I do agree that the article presented is 100% BS.

 

[PAtoPharm]

In an ACT model, yes, depending on how efficient the ORs are. A salaried cRNA not being utilized isn't good. An independent cRNA practice would be a little murkier, now needing malpractice and scheduling overhead as well as accounting for calls, weekends, holidays, etc.

I heard of some cRNAs coming from an independent model recently and they were interviewed for a nice spot at an ambulatory center with an ACT model. They were essentially asking for anesthesiologist compensation in accordance with the previous gig.

Would love for someone to post salaries of these independent cRNA practices. I do not have that info. I imagine it is well over $200K.

I know a guy who graduated within the last few years from a ****ty for-profit CRNA school, possibly the most ill-regarded program in the country amongst CRNAs. For his first job, he accepted an offer to work with an independent CRNA group just south of Atlanta that has contracts at various facilities (mostly outpatient but a few small hospitals), ranging from Atlanta to as far south as ~1.5 hrs below Atlanta. Anyways, his base salary was $200k with a 1099 contract for the first 6 months and was eventually transitioned to a W-2 contract after 6 months. Vacation is somewhere in the range of 6-8 weeks, or possibly more by now since he's been working with them for a year or two. He told me that on most days, he's sent to outpatient facilities to do anesthesia for colonoscopies, EGDs, plastic surgeries, outpatient ophtho, simple podiatry cases (e.g. hammer toe surgery), etc. Unless he is BSing me, he says he is out of work by anywhere between ~12:15 - 1:30 PM (almost never any later than that and usually closer to 12, not 1:30). He is just in love with the job. Makes me wish I had just done an accelerated BSN program last year instead of making the ill-fated decision to go to AA school.

Edited to add: I forgot to mention that at some of the sites he works at, they actually do utilize 1:8 QZ supervision with a few anesthesiologists present at the facility. At other sites he is totally independent. The fact that some of his days are spent working under supervision probably explains why he isn't making closer to $300k.

 

[bashwell]

I know a guy who graduated within the last few years from a ****ty for-profit CRNA school, possibly the most ill-regarded program in the country amongst CRNAs. For his first job, he accepted an offer to work with an independent CRNA group just south of Atlanta that has contracts at various facilities (mostly outpatient but a few small hospitals), ranging from Atlanta to as far south as ~1.5 hrs below Atlanta. Anyways, his base salary was $200k with a 1099 contract for the first 6 months and was eventually transitioned to a W-2 contract after 6 months. Vacation is somewhere in the range of 6-8 weeks, or possibly more by now since he's been working with them for a year or two. He told me that on most days, he's sent to outpatient facilities to do anesthesia for colonoscopies, EGDs, plastic surgeries, outpatient ophtho, simple podiatry cases (e.g. hammer toe surgery), etc. Unless he is BSing me, he says he is out of work by anywhere between ~12:15 - 1:30 PM (almost never any later than that and usually closer to 12, not 1:30). He is just in love with the job. Makes me wish I had just done an accelerated BSN program last year instead of making the ill-fated decision to go to AA school.

Edited to add: I forgot to mention that at some of the sites he works at, they actually do utilize 1:8 QZ supervision with a few anesthesiologists present at the facility. At other sites he is totally independent. The fact that some of his days are spent working under supervision probably explains why he isn't making closer to $300k.

 

[PAtoPharm]

@bashwell LOL. Actually, from what I've heard, his salary is fairly low compared to what some of the "bona fide" independent CRNAs are making.

 

[Ignatius J]

I know a guy who graduated within the last few years from a ****ty for-profit CRNA school, possibly the most ill-regarded program in the country amongst CRNAs. For his first job, he accepted an offer to work with an independent CRNA group just south of Atlanta that has contracts at various facilities (mostly outpatient but a few small hospitals), ranging from Atlanta to as far south as ~1.5 hrs below Atlanta. Anyways, his base salary was $200k with a 1099 contract for the first 6 months and was eventually transitioned to a W-2 contract after 6 months. Vacation is somewhere in the range of 6-8 weeks, or possibly more by now since he's been working with them for a year or two. He told me that on most days, he's sent to outpatient facilities to do anesthesia for colonoscopies, EGDs, plastic surgeries, outpatient ophtho, simple podiatry cases (e.g. hammer toe surgery), etc. Unless he is BSing me, he says he is out of work by anywhere between ~12:15 - 1:30 PM (almost never any later than that and usually closer to 12, not 1:30). He is just in love with the job. Makes me wish I had just done an accelerated BSN program last year instead of making the ill-fated decision to go to AA school.

Edited to add: I forgot to mention that at some of the sites he works at, they actually do utilize 1:8 QZ supervision with a few anesthesiologists present at the facility. At other sites he is totally independent. The fact that some of his days are spent working under supervision probably explains why he isn't making closer to $300k.

Yeah, a 30 hr work week with 6-8 weeks vacation and 200K. That's a great gig no matter who you are.

Per hour, that's about what I make right now.

 

[PAtoPharm]

Yeah, a 30 hr work week with 6-8 weeks vacation and 200K. That's a great gig no matter who you are.

Per hour, that's about what I make right now.

From what that guy says, it's a fairly common gig for CRNAs who choose to work almost exclusively in outpatient settings. The only potential downside that I'm aware of is that he sometimes has to travel about an hour back and forth between Atlanta and some other small towns during the week. Maybe it's worth going back to community college to do the 3-semester RN program after all.

 

[nimbus]

From what that guy says, it's a fairly common gig for CRNAs who choose to work almost exclusively in outpatient settings. The only potential downside that I'm aware of is that he sometimes has to travel about an hour back and forth between Atlanta and some other small towns during the week. Maybe it's worth going back to community college to do the 3-semester RN program after all.

CRNA training is probably very similar to AA training. The job itself is pretty much the same.

 

[PAtoPharm]

CRNA training is probably very similar to AA training. The job itself is pretty much the same.

With the numbers of students that have failed out of certain AA programs over the last few semesters, I can't help but think that AA programs are somehow harder, especially considering the sheer number of CRNA programs & students going through school every year. In other words, with ~120 CRNA programs out there, wouldn't we be hearing a lot more about failure/retention rates if the training & coursework was just as tough? Based on conversations I've had with the AA students I've talked to at other programs besides the one I was enrolled in, it seems like the majority of people who fail out of AA school fail out because of classes like lab sim and pharmacology.

 

[deleted171991]

I would assume people going into an AA/PA type of program are smarter than people who go into nursing. Why? Because most smart people will not look forward to a job in which they clean other people's crap.

 

[PAtoPharm]

I would assume people going into an AA/PA type of program are smarter than people who go into nursing. Why? Because most smart people will not look forward to a job in which they clean other people's crap.

I didn't go the CRNA route because I didn't want to clean up crap and bathe people. But when I finally got to AA school, I didn't have to do any of the nasty work, but apparently I didn't have what it takes to excel in a curriculum that emphasizes the "brains over brawn" approach I thought I wanted. Can't have it both ways!

 

[Man o War]

AAs are definitely better versed in the hard sciences than CRNAs. No doubt about it. I can definitely see where their academic course would be more challenging than the nursing route.

 

[amLOLdipine]

I would assume people going into an AA/PA type of program are smarter than people who go into nursing. Why? Because most smart people will not look forward to a job in which they clean other people's crap.

There are so many low-tier/for-profit nursing programs out there that anyone can get into nursing school.

Not sure about AA school, but PA school is actually somewhat tough to get into for the average student. Not as tough as medical school, but you do have to put in some work to get there.

AAs are definitely better versed in the hard sciences than CRNAs. No doubt about it. I can definitely see where their academic course would be more challenging than the nursing route.

Agreed. I once asked a CRNA about the mechanism of action of a commonly used anti-emetic, and all I got was a blank stare.