Current PY4 witnessing grad-interns not getting hired. Need Advice!

[beautifulrobot]

I'm not sure if law and pharmacy will be the same. With a law degree, ppl can do other jobs than just to be a lawyer (?).
With a pharm degree, I'm not sure if I can work as an intern and get paid $18. Ppl probably will switch their career and never work as a pharmacist again.
My classmates talk about the closing of my school of pharm in 5 years. My school is trying to open medical school and PA program.

You could probably work as a tech with a pharmd as long as you forfeited your rph? Although i would imagine that pharmacist salaries would just go down to be more similar to tech salaries first, and/or you would just work part time before giving up your rph completely.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[beautifulrobot]

Schools will stay in biz bc they have access to easy Fed money. Anyone can get fed money. Only once the fed cuts off the easy money pipe line will you see pharmacy schools start to close en mass.

Yep. Until there is some major reform in the fed student loan system, we won't see significant change in tuition rates or enrollment (just the quality of the students enrolled). Although i do think the business venture of opening a new school or new satellite campus has become riskier, and i think the expansion of pharmacy schools is on a downturn now (just my sense, havent actually analyzed the data).

 

[Modest_anteater]

Yep. Until there is some major reform in the fed student loan system, we won't see significant change in tuition rates or enrollment (just the quality of the students enrolled). Although i do think the business venture of opening a new school or new satellite campus has become riskier, and i think the expansion of pharmacy schools is on a downturn now (just my sense, havent actually analyzed the data).

The damage has already been done. The number of jobs has stayed static while the number of schools and grads has doubled. The industry will be hurting for decades due to the massive surplus of pharmacy students.

 

[beautifulrobot]

The damage has already been done. The number of jobs has stayed static while the number of schools and grads has doubled. The industry will be hurting for decades due to the massive surplus of pharmacy students.

True. I don't think it is all gloom and doom though. The golden age was never going to last forever, and change is inevitable in any career. At the end of the day, folks with a PharmD are highly educated individuals, and even if they aren't able to find a traditional pharmacist job, they can apply their education to other fields - high school chemistry teacher, health industry project manager, medical writing editor, medical claims auditor... Of course none of those jobs require a PharmD (some only require a high school degree or a bachelor's), and a PharmD would be an even worse ROI if you don't end up in a pharmacist job. The point is someone with a PharmD has more education than the vast majority of the American population, and shouldn't have a hard time finding a job that pays a living wage if they are unable to find a pharmacist job (i.e. unwilling/unable to relocate, take a part-time pharmacist job, or pursue post-graduate training for a niche pharmacist job). I work with a lot of people who are far less educated than myself, have much less training, and they are able to get and hold a job and live a decent, happy life. Just pay back your loans on an income-driven repayment plan, and live a modest life. At the end of the day the PharmD has become a riskier investment, but not a life-or-death decision that you won't be able to recover from. You aren't going to starve or become homeless (unless you become disabled and can't work at all and weren't able to save up a substantial amount of money before becoming disabled, because the safety net in this country is garbage, but that's the case whether or not you pursue a PharmD).

Okay, things got a little gloomy at the end there... TL;DR: those who are resourceful, resilient, and able to plan ahead will be fine. Those who bury their head in the sand and are unable to adapt to change will suffer the most.

ETA: more directly to your post - even though the damage has been done, that doesn't mean we don't have control over how we react to that damage. Being highly educated means we have more resources to find solutions and to mitigate the damage.

 

[deleted898085]

What do you mean "if" there are already tons of pharmacists starting at 70k. From what I have heard many of the clinical pharmacists starting in Cleveland and St. Louis start at 70-75,000 USD. In additon to all the part time retail CVS floaters they may have a base salary of 105,000 but realisitcally they are only working 30/40 hours a week so they are making .75*105,000 = 78,000 a year - tax - student loans real wage is closer to 33,000 USD or 15 bucks an hour.

Schools will stay in biz bc they have access to easy Fed money. Anyone can get fed money. Only once the fed cuts off the easy money pipe line will you see pharmacy schools start to close en mass.

I don't know much around the country right now. But here in Las Vegas, students graduated last year are floaters with 38-40 hours/week. I'm waiting to see how it's like in 1-2 years.

 

[beautifulrobot]

Another point I often ponder about saturation - although the damage to pharmacists is concerning to me personally (reduced wages and job security, poorer working conditions, higher debt to income ratios, lower quality school applicants, reduction in the reputation of the PharmD, animosity among pharmacists due to scarcity of work), the increase in the availability of pharmacists, and the decrease in the cost of hiring a pharmacist, is ultimately beneficial to society (assuming pharmacists don't default on their student loans/resort to criminal acts to repay their loans) and to the public health (assuming newly graduated pharmacists aren't too incompetent). Even if schools aren't primarily motivated by the public health benefit of increasing the supply of pharmacists, I can't honestly view pharmacist saturation as a net negative, or as overall "damaging" to society. It would seem unethical to try to improve our working conditions and wages by recreating a pharmacist shortage and limiting access to pharmacist services. Rather, we need to find other ways to increase our value, and/or to work towards creating a society that values preserving the dignity of human beings over maximizing profits. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Modest_anteater]

True. I don't think it is all gloom and doom though. The golden age was never going to last forever, and change is inevitable in any career. At the end of the day, folks with a PharmD are highly educated individuals, and even if they aren't able to find a traditional pharmacist job, they can apply their education to other fields - high school chemistry teacher, health industry project manager, medical writing editor, medical claims auditor... Of course none of those jobs require a PharmD (some only require a high school degree or a bachelor's), and a PharmD would be an even worse ROI if you don't end up in a pharmacist job. The point is someone with a PharmD has more education than the vast majority of the American population, and shouldn't have a hard time finding a job that pays a living wage if they are unable to find a pharmacist job (i.e. unwilling/unable to relocate, take a part-time pharmacist job, or pursue post-graduate training for a niche pharmacist job). I work with a lot of people who are far less educated than myself, have much less training, and they are able to get and hold a job and live a decent, happy life. Just pay back your loans on an income-driven repayment plan, and live a modest life. At the end of the day the PharmD has become a riskier investment, but not a life-or-death decision that you won't be able to recover from. You aren't going to starve or become homeless (unless you become disabled and can't work at all and weren't able to save up a substantial amount of money before becoming disabled, because the safety net in this country is garbage, but that's the case whether or not you pursue a PharmD).

Okay, things got a little gloomy at the end there... TL;DR: those who are resourceful, resilient, and able to plan ahead will be fine. Those who bury their head in the sand and are unable to adapt to change will suffer the most.

ETA: more directly to your post - even though the damage has been done, that doesn't mean we don't have control over how we react to that damage. Being highly educated means we have more resources to find solutions and to mitigate the damage.

" Just pay back your loans on an income-driven repayment plan"

For this reason I think it is a bad idea to pay off your loans early.

-you could die
-you could lose your job and just do IBR

too risky to pay off the debt when you could hoard the money instead and then have that money if you lose your job

 

[radio frequency]

I'm not sure if law and pharmacy will be the same. With a law degree, ppl can do other jobs than just to be a lawyer (?).
With a pharm degree, I'm not sure if I can work as an intern and get paid $18. Ppl probably will switch their career and never work as a pharmacist again.
My classmates talk about the closing of my school of pharm in 5 years. My school is trying to open medical school and PA program.

Why can’t you also work other non pharmacist jobs? Do you truly believe you are only employable as a pharmacist? If so, you aren’t very creative, or I feel bad for you.

 

[deleted898085]

Why can’t you also work other non pharmacist jobs? Do you truly believe you are only employable as a pharmacist? If so, you aren’t very creative, or I feel bad for you.

These are the jobs ppl can do with a law degree (from Google):

• Professional counseling.
• Negotiation and Conflict Resolution. ...
• Development Agencies. ...
• Government and politics. ...
• Banking and finance. ...
• Entrepreneur.

Tell me what kinds of job you can do with a pharmD.

Currently I'm working as an Uber driver, trading some stocks and I was a nail technician.

 

[deleted898085]

You could probably work as a tech with a pharmd as long as you forfeited your rph? Although i would imagine that pharmacist salaries would just go down to be more similar to tech salaries first, and/or you would just work part time before giving up your rph completely.

I worked as a tech before, making $12/h, so little that I had to quit after 4 months.

 

[pakho123]

A close friend or maybe a 5-15,000 USD friendship/network package to the DM.

hahaha so sad but so true

 

[radio frequency]

These are the jobs ppl can do with a law degree (from Google):

• Professional counseling.
• Negotiation and Conflict Resolution. ...
• Development Agencies. ...
• Government and politics. ...
• Banking and finance. ...
• Entrepreneur.

Tell me what kinds of job you can do with a pharmD.

Currently I'm working as an Uber driver, trading some stocks and I was a nail technician.

Why can’t you do any of those jobs with a PharmD? You’re the only one holding yourself back. These jobs don’t require a specific degree.

 

[beautifulrobot]

These are the jobs ppl can do with a law degree (from Google):

• Professional counseling.
• Negotiation and Conflict Resolution. ...
• Development Agencies. ...
• Government and politics. ...
• Banking and finance. ...
• Entrepreneur.

Tell me what kinds of job you can do with a pharmD.

Currently I'm working as an Uber driver, trading some stocks and I was a nail technician.

Also from google (search terms "what can you do with a pharmacy degree"):

Jobs where your degree would be useful include:

• Clinical research associate.
• Higher education lecturer.
• Medical sales representative.
• Pharmacologist.
• Product/process development scientist.
• Regulatory affairs officer.
• Research scientist (life sciences)
• Science writer.

I worked as a tech before, making $12/h, so little that I had to quit after 4 months.

I was thinking more the higher end of tech salaries, like closer to $20/hr. Although, realistically, it will probably take a long time, if ever, for wages to get that low (on average for all pharmacists; there are always outliers, even today). At a certain point people would rather change careers or go on an early retirement if they can afford it. I think wage stagnation and lose of benefits will continue to happen, and folks will just continue to have a hard time finding full time work in desirable locations.

 

[deleted898085]

Also from google (search terms "what can you do with a pharmacy degree"):

Jobs where your degree would be useful include:

• Clinical research associate.
• Higher education lecturer.
• Medical sales representative.
• Pharmacologist.
• Product/process development scientist.
• Regulatory affairs officer.
• Research scientist (life sciences)
• Science writer.

I was thinking more the higher end of tech salaries, like closer to $20/hr. Although, realistically, it will probably take a long time, if ever, for wages to get that low (on average for all pharmacists; there are always outliers, even today). At a certain point people would rather change careers or go on an early retirement if they can afford it. I think wage stagnation and lose of benefits will continue to happen, and folks will just continue to have a hard time finding full time work in desirable locations.

Can you apply directly to those jobs (scientist, research associates, pharmacologist) after graduating with a pharmD or do you have to spend a few years in school/residency before qualifying for those jobs? And you know getting residency is harder than finding a pharmacist retail job!
I know with law degree, you can open a small counseling business for your own, just like opening an independent pharmacy. But the chance of survival for an independent pharmacy is almost zero.

 

[beautifulrobot]

Can you apply directly to those jobs (scientist, research associates, pharmacologist) after graduating with a pharmD or do you have to spend a few years in school/residency before qualifying for those jobs? And you know getting residency is harder than finding a pharmacist retail job!
I know with law degree, you can open a small counseling business for your own, just like opening an independent pharmacy. But the chance of survival for an independent pharmacy is almost zero.

Some of those are entry-level jobs (science writer, regulatory affairs, research associate), some of them don't even require a PharmD, just a bachelor's. Although other's will require additional graduate training and experience. You realize that some of the jobs you listed for law degree holders also requires completion of legal residency or fellowship programs, or some kind of experience beyond law school?

I am not sure what the chances of survival are for a small legal counseling business of your own, especially if you are fresh out of law school, but I imagine it isn't easy. As a pharmacist you can also open a small consulting business, although typically you have to have work experience beyond pharmacy school and subject matter expertise in something to have a successful consulting business, but it is certainly a thing you could do and turn a profit with a background in pharmacy.

ETA: ultimately, a law degree and pharmacy degree are very different degrees, and I tend to agree with you that the law degree is probably more versatile than the pharmacy degree in terms of how many different doors it opens up, but I don't think the pharmacy degree completely lacks versatility.

 

[mustang sally]

1) Don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

2) As many others have said, be prepared to move, whether to another state nearby or across the country.

3) I did get get my job off of Indeed.com, so it can happen.

 

[gwarm01]

1) Don't put all of your eggs in one basket.

2) As many others have said, be prepared to move, whether to another state nearby or across the country.

3) I did get get my job off of Indeed.com, so it can happen.

I think I've found every job I've ever had on Indeed. Apply to jobs that you are a good fit for and you'll have a decent chance.

 

[Apotheker2015]

I am a recent 2018 graduate and I have four offers already. Let me shed some light on my observations on my job search so far.

1. Easiest place you can land a job is where you already work. Whether you work as a technician or as an intern, you need to make sure that you apply to all the internal position available in your work place. The only catch to it, is to reach out early. You gotta beat other interns or technicians graduating this year. However, it doesn’t hurt to reach out now still, as there are several people who would change their minds about their offers later on in the year. If it is a chain, I suggest you reach out to the area supervisor ( usually the person above the DMs). They would forward your emails to several DMs. Within a few days, several DMs would be reaching out to you for potential opportunities. I am an intern at Walgreens and 3 out of 4 offers came from Walgreens in different geographical area ( Infact one of them comes with H1B sponsorship). So definitely reach out to the company you re working for and be willing to move if the opportunities are not available in your home city.


2. My second observation is to reach out to your connections and network. All your preceptor’s and potentially any Pharmacist you have worked with, any professor you be worked with on a more intimate level ( Rotation, research). Reach out to them. My fourth offer came from me reaching out to a Pharmacist who I use to worked with. He put in some good work for me. I landed the interview and landed an offer. Your network would be crucial to increasing your net worth. Reach out to every pharmacist you know and even technicians too ( you will be surprised how well connected some technicians are)

3. My third observation, applying to job posting on indeed and the rest of them is a waste of time. However take this advise with a grain of salt. I applied to over 200 jobs in like 3 days and I landed zero interviews and I have been waiting almost two months now. Maybe I was just unlucky, or maybe my application wasn’t as competitive as the other candidates.One thing I can say however is that this method is very time consuming and it’s not even worth the effort. But like I said, take this advise with a grain of salt.

My last advice is pray and be steadfast in whatever religion you believe in.

Good luck with everything

Did you tailor your cover letter to each one of the 200 jobs that you applied to? Or did you millenial your way through all those job postings and did not bother to send a cover letter?

 

[ohmycali]

Some of those are entry-level jobs (science writer, regulatory affairs, research associate), some of them don't even require a PharmD, just a bachelor's. Although other's will require additional graduate training and experience. You realize that some of the jobs you listed for law degree holders also requires completion of legal residency or fellowship programs, or some kind of experience beyond law school?

I am not sure what the chances of survival are for a small legal counseling business of your own, especially if you are fresh out of law school, but I imagine it isn't easy. As a pharmacist you can also open a small consulting business, although typically you have to have work experience beyond pharmacy school and subject matter expertise in something to have a successful consulting business, but it is certainly a thing you could do and turn a profit with a background in pharmacy.

ETA: ultimately, a law degree and pharmacy degree are very different degrees, and I tend to agree with you that the law degree is probably more versatile than the pharmacy degree in terms of how many different doors it opens up, but I don't think the pharmacy degree completely lacks versatility.

Holding PharmD degree, I have been trying to find non-pharmacist jobs which you’ve listed, and have been applying the jobs for a year.. If you have not tried, do not assume. They do not want us. They do not want pharmD. They do not want anyone who does not have at least one year related experience which we do not have.

 

[deleted898085]

Why can’t you do any of those jobs with a PharmD? You’re the only one holding yourself back. These jobs don’t require a specific degree.

Tell me about your career. What kinds of job do you have with your pharmD? Pharmacist? Anything else?

 

[lord999]

Tell me about your career. What kinds of job do you have with your pharmD? Pharmacist? Anything else?

If you do have a NV license, why not Reno?

 

[radio frequency]

Tell me about your career. What kinds of job do you have with your pharmD? Pharmacist? Anything else?

I work full time as a pharmacist and currently don’t have time for anything else. There’s absolutely no reason I can’t do other things though, and I have in the past.

That’s as much as I can tell you about me personally because I value my privacy.

You do know people can have well paying jobs without even a college degree, right? It usually takes some time and moving up the ladder, and/or some personal initiative. There are many jobs available with just a bachelors as well.

 

[deleted898085]

If you do have a NV license, why not Reno?

I haven't graduated yet. Will try to apply out of state, too.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

People actually care about cover letters? Is that going to make the difference between two equally qualified candidates? Legitimately asking what people think... not being a smart ass.

 

[radio frequency]

People actually care about cover letters? Is that going to make the difference between two equally qualified candidates? Legitimately asking what people think... not being a smart ass.

Absolutely. Want the job? Always do the cover letter, and do it well.

What else can differentiate you from other applicants in such a cursory glance? HR doesn’t have time to read about all the nitty gritty regarding your accomplishments; the cover letter provides a high level overview of why you are the best solution to their problem of needing a pharmacist.

 

[deleted898085]

I work full time as a pharmacist and currently don’t have time for anything else. There’s absolutely no reason I can’t do other things though, and I have in the past.

That’s as much as I can tell you about me personally because I value my privacy.

You do know people can have well paying jobs without even a college degree, right? It usually takes some time and moving up the ladder, and/or some personal initiative. There are many jobs available with just a bachelors as well.

Ppl can but not all will have well paying jobs. And no one knows how long it will take. If you've never experienced yourself, you shouldn't say it.
I'm sure all people who went to pharmacy for 3-4 years would definitely have well paying jobs.
It might not be so in the future tho. Will see what'll happen to me.

 

[radio frequency]

Ppl can but not all will have well paying jobs. And no one knows how long it will take. If you've never experienced yourself, you shouldn't say it.
I'm sure all people who went to pharmacy for 3-4 years would definitely have well paying jobs.
It might not be so in the future tho. Will see what'll happen to me.

I absolutely have experienced underemployment. I also think you are being unrealistically pessimistic about opportunities outside pharmacy for some strange self-serving (?) reason.

I honestly don’t think you want to be a pharmacist based on your posts so why are you taking on all the debt to do so? Why bother? For many people today, being a pharmacist probably isn’t worth the cost to get there. Unless you can do it super cheaply and know you’ll have a full time job upon graduation, I wouldn’t go today.

 

[deleted898085]

People actually care about cover letters? Is that going to make the difference between two equally qualified candidates? Legitimately asking what people think... not being a smart ass.

Yes.
That's what happened to my sister. After interviewing many applicants who have exactly the same qualifications, they told her they picked her because of her cover letter.

 

[deleted898085]

I absolutely have experienced underemployment. I also think you are being unrealistically pessimistic about opportunities outside pharmacy for some strange self-serving (?) reason.

I honestly don’t think you want to be a pharmacist based on your posts so why are you taking on all the debt to do so? Why bother? For many people today, being a pharmacist probably isn’t worth the cost to get there. Unless you can do it super cheaply and know you’ll have a full time job upon graduation, I wouldn’t go today.

I think if ppl are optimistic about opportunities outside pharmacy school, they won't go to pharmacy school with a high debt after graduation.
I actually don't mind high debt. I'm borrowing maximum for a private reason.

 

[radio frequency]

I think if ppl are optimistic about opportunities outside pharmacy school, they won't go to pharmacy school with a high debt after graduation.
I actually don't mind high debt. I'm borrowing maximum for a private reason.

It’s hard to feel bad for somebody intentionally making poor choices with full knowledge of the probable outcome.

 

[deleted898085]

It’s hard to feel bad for somebody intentionally making poor choices with full knowledge of the probable outcome.

Sometimes knowledge is not enough.
Let ppl experience!
Knowing is one thing, experience is another.
What we think may not be what it'll be.

Paying 10% of AGI for 20 years is not bad if they can't make standard payment.

(Have heard of Mike Meru who studied dentistry? It's a recent article on Wall Street Journal: He owes $1M in student loans, making 225k/year and paying only 10% of income ($1600/m) to loan...)

 

[beautifulrobot]

Holding PharmD degree, I have been trying to find non-pharmacist jobs which you’ve listed, and have been applying the jobs for a year.. If you have not tried, do not assume. They do not want us. They do not want pharmD. They do not want anyone who does not have at least one year related experience which we do not have.

I by no means intended to make it sound easy to find non-pharmacist jobs, but I know for a fact that there are jobs held by PharmDs for which the job does not require a pharmacist license (i.e. non-pharmacist jobs, but still healthcare related), and their PharmD helped them get those jobs.

 

[VA77]

The next career fair at my school I am going to upset the apple cart. That is if anyone is there.

 

[ImmunoglobulinE]

Did you tailor your cover letter to each one of the 200 jobs that you applied to? Or did you millenial your way through all those job postings and did not bother to send a cover letter?

What can I say. I'm a millennial after all. Maybe that is why I didn't get any interview. So quick question. If the job posting doesn't give any option for cover letter, can you still upload it in the same slot with your CV or resume?