D.O and surgery residencies please help!!!

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I just took both the USMLE and COMLEX, comlex on sept 26 and usmle on oct 1 and they were pretty similar tests with the usmle requiring more reasoning. The Comlex I thought was written extremely well actually but most of the questions were 1st order and 2nd order;however, the usmle was mostly 3rd and 4th order questions 😕requiring much more reasoning. Kind of like a much better MCAT minus the physics and organic chemistry. I actually had as much biochem on comlex as I did on the usmle so I think they both tested on similar material, also didn't get much mol biology on usmle, but I did about four thousand practice qs and Goljan did the board prep at my school so I went through alot of material. 😀 I also want to possibly do a surgery/plastics or ortho which is why I took both. 😎

Awesome, you will my friend you will...you must be so relieved that its all over. I am curious when did you start preparing for boards? I mean did you use a specific book in school during 1s, 2nd years and then kinda expanded your book list supposedly a few weeks before boards? I know there's no guarantee which subject gets tested more than the other..but would you say biochem, physio, and path are high yield subjects?
 
well I used of all Goljan's material of course and I also did the underground clinical vignette series, which I thought helped out alot , rapid review physio and biochem, high yield mol bio, salvarese and lange pharm cards

Most important:
Comlex- Lange pharm cards, salvarese-omm, ucv-practice qs, goljan high yield, usmle world

USMLE- Usmle world, RR Biochem, UCV, First Aid

PS- do as many practice qs as possible from different sources, I probably ended up doing at least 5000 qs total 😎😎
 
Now this I agree with. Reality is it is a little bit harder for us as DOs to get into plastics; has that stopped me from my current path? Of course not! Like I said earlier, NYCOM will soon have its own plastic fellowship, only DOs can apply for. Hopefully in the future even more spots will open. "Future's so bright, gotta wear shades." 😎
Before putting the shades on, make sure your board scores are undeniable (250+ and 700+), and all your other sht is in order too, including being a likeable human being. And even then you'll have things happen that will make you wonder whether it was worth the effort.
 
Hey am contemplating applying to both Do and MD for I just want to practice medicine.This is where the problem lies, I just want to have a fiar shot at landing a surgery residency, will my chances be depleted if I go to a DO school? I would hate for two letters after my name to be a determining factor when it comes time for residencies. Please help any insight will be greatly appreciated,

Surgeons are discriminators by nature. Go to MD school if possible.
 
well I used of all Goljan's material of course and I also did the underground clinical vignette series, which I thought helped out alot , rapid review physio and biochem, high yield mol bio, salvarese and lange pharm cards

Most important:
Comlex- Lange pharm cards, salvarese-omm, ucv-practice qs, goljan high yield, usmle world

USMLE- Usmle world, RR Biochem, UCV, First Aid

PS- do as many practice qs as possible from different sources, I probably ended up doing at least 5000 qs total 😎😎

sounds good..i will def try to break your 5000 question mark..hehe. Thanx for the input, i will see if i can start doing practise questions right from this winter break..
 
That's true, but let's say there are 98 PRS programs, and 50% of them screen for AOA.

Sorry, but can someone educate me on the term "AOA"? Thanks.
 
Sorry, but can someone educate me on the term "AOA"? Thanks.

Like PlasticMan said, AOA = Alpha Omega Alpha. Every school is different, but usually you have to be around top 10% of your class.
 
Ach so...is there an equivalent osteopathic society?
 
Ach so...is there an equivalent osteopathic society?

I don't if you'd call it equivelant, but Sigma Sigma Phi is the DO honor society. It seems allopathic residencies like plastics, derm, etc. put a lot of emphasis on AOA, and I doubt alot of the uber-competitive allo residencies know of/care if a DO has SSP and applies there. I've never heard of osteopathic residencies being as obsessed with the SSP honor society, so I'm not sure if equivelant is the proper term. But I'm sure induction into either of them is a pretty analagous process.
 
Helpful. Thanks Meatwad...err William! :laugh:
 
I don't if you'd call it equivelant, but Sigma Sigma Phi is the DO honor society. It seems allopathic residencies like plastics, derm, etc. put a lot of emphasis on AOA, and I doubt alot of the uber-competitive allo residencies know of/care if a DO has SSP and applies there. I've never heard of osteopathic residencies being as obsessed with the SSP honor society, so I'm not sure if equivelant is the proper term. But I'm sure induction into either of them is a pretty analagous process.
NYCOM doesn't even have a chapter. 🙁
 
NYCOM doesn't even have a chapter. 🙁

Yeah, so I've heard. That sucks....

You guys have that osteopathic frat type thing though, right? It's a combo of some other Greek letters. Can't place the name right now.
 
Before putting the shades on, make sure your board scores are undeniable (250+ and 700+), and all your other sht is in order too, including being a likeable human being. And even then you'll have things happen that will make you wonder whether it was worth the effort.

For integrated plastics or GS? I mean I was considering neurosurgery at one point and those scores seem a bit lofty compared to what I thought GS programs looked for.

Also, would you guys mind starting a list of university based allo-GS programs that have DOs in them? I've been weeding through FREIDA trying to find "DO friendly" programs but I keep forgetting to write them down. If anything it will give all of us looking for a career in GS a boost knowing there are programs where we have broken in. I'll start with what I can remember off the top of my head:

Loyola University Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
Mount Sinai Medical Center (Preliminary PGY-1)
University of Texas - Houston
 
For integrated plastics or GS? I mean I was considering neurosurgery at one point and those scores seem a bit lofty compared to what I thought GS programs looked for.

Also, would you guys mind starting a list of university based allo-GS programs that have DOs in them? I've been weeding through FREIDA trying to find "DO friendly" programs but I keep forgetting to write them down. If anything it will give all of us looking for a career in GS a boost knowing there are programs where we have broken in. I'll start with what I can remember off the top of my head:

Loyola University Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
Mount Sinai Medical Center (Preliminary PGY-1)
University of Texas - Houston


Not exactly what you asked for, but here are some allopathic PRS fellowships where DOs have trained:

Cleveland Clinic
Mayo
Lehigh Valley
 
I'll add neurosurgery to this as well. Please feel free to add other surgical subspecialties/fellowships to the list:

General Surgery
Loyola University Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
Mount Sinai Medical Center (Preliminary PGY-1)
University of Texas - Houston

PRS Fellowships
Cleveland Clinic
Mayo Clinic
Lehigh Valley Hospital

Neurosurgery
University of Kansas
LSU-Shreveport
 
I believe there were 3 NS (allo) matches last year; UK, LSU, and SUNY-Upstate. I think we should add allo Uro as well; it seems harder to get than NS. According to the 2007 CCOM match list, there is an allo uro match at Stroger in Chicago. So an update:

General Surgery
Loyola University Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
Mount Sinai Medical Center (Preliminary PGY-1)
University of Texas - Houston

PRS Fellowships
Cleveland Clinic
Mayo Clinic
Lehigh Valley Hospital

Neurosurgery
University of Kansas
LSU-Shreveport
SUNY-Upstate

Urology
John Stroger Hosp. of Cook County
 
General Surgery
Loyola University Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
Mount Sinai Medical Center (Preliminary PGY-1)
University of Texas - Houston
West Virginia University
Lehigh Valley Hospital/Penn State Hershey Program

PRS Fellowships
Cleveland Clinic
Mayo Clinic
Lehigh Valley Hospital

Neurosurgery
University of Kansas
LSU-Shreveport
SUNY-Upstate

Urology
John Stroger Hosp. of Cook County
 
WIth respect to AOA and SSP. When you apply through ERAS for your residency application there is a question if you belong to a) AOA or b) SSP as an honor's society. So, not sure how much Allopathic programs look at SSP, but seeing how it's listed as an equivalent on the application might mean something. When I applied and interviewed at allopathic programs, no one asked me about SSP though.

Honestly, if you want to get into an allopathic surgery or surgical subspecialty, just don't give them a reason to discriminat against you...because some will. If you have the same (or better) board scores, application, and work harder than the other allopathic applicants, you will have a great shot. I know there are tons of DO students who could be successful in the allopathic match!

It is a tough decision though to give up on the osteopathic match and go only for allopathic. But it does happen.
 
I'll add neurosurgery to this as well. Please feel free to add other surgical subspecialties/fellowships to the list:

General Surgery
Loyola University Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
Mount Sinai Medical Center (Preliminary PGY-1)
University of Texas - Houston

PRS Fellowships
Cleveland Clinic
Mayo Clinic
Lehigh Valley Hospital

Neurosurgery
University of Kansas
LSU-Shreveport


PA has always been receptive to DO's, i believe PCOM has an osteopathic GS residency.
 
PA has always been receptive to DO's, i believe PCOM has an osteopathic GS residency.

Yeah, I think he wants to compile an allopathic list, though, since obviously all osteopathic residencies are DO friendly 😉
 
Can anyone post research opportunities available to medical students this summer, surgery related would be even better..but i am def interested in doing research this summer. I appreciate it guys..
 
Hey guys, 4th year medical student here, deciding whether to go for an osteo or an allo match. So far, I have 6 Osteopathic interviews, and 13 which are allopathic.

First off, does anyone know how many interviews/hospitals ranked we need in order to match?

Second, should I be worried that I only have a few at this time? My sis is also applying for GS, and she's a 4th year allopathic student -- so far, she has 24 interviews, and I'm feeling a little down that I only have half as much as she does! (we have comparable, almost identical USMLE scores). Also, she is interviewing at 6 out of the 13 programs I have been invited to interview with.

Any advice/reassurance/pity is welcome...
 
Loyola University Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
Mount Sinai Medical Center (Preliminary PGY-1)
University of Texas - Houston
West Virginia University
Lehigh Valley Hospital/Penn State Hershey Program
Maricopa Integrated Health System

PRS Fellowships
Cleveland Clinic
Mayo Clinic
Lehigh Valley Hospital

Neurosurgery
University of Kansas
LSU-Shreveport
SUNY-Upstate

Urology
John Stroger Hosp. of Cook County
 
This thread in the surgery forum says that after 10 interviews, the chance of matching increases very little (not statistically significant). I think those numbers were for allo students applying to allo residencies. FYI, from what I've read, the mean USMLE score for allo g.s. programs is around 222.

I'd be interested to hear what programs you're applying to (on this thread or pm). Let us know how everything works out! Good Luck.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=455570

Thanks for the link! Hmmnn... 10 is the magic number, but what if I was the 10% exception? Eek!

Anyways, I applied all over the east coast and CA/NV (I'm originally from Cali). So far, I have 2/13 allopathic interviews in the west coast -- I guess programs do tend to favor students from their own side of the coast! I applied to both university affiliated and community programs. I will PM my interview list to you as of now. Once the match is over, then I'll post the programs publicly. =)

Thanks for the clarification!
 
You guys have to face the fact that no matter what you score on the USMLE, as a DO you are always a second class citizen in an allopathic training program.

I had 3 classmates, all of who scored in the top 99% for comlex and USMLE, that got **** from residency directors. One guy had the highest USMLE of all the applicants in the whole pool....the interviewer still ask him how he feels he is as good as the other MD applicants.

A friend of mine on the other hand, got his number one plastics choice after attending an ACGME surgery training program. Here is my list of recs for those of you thinking about fellowships or specialty surgery.....

1.) If you are in udergrad......go MD, if you can. I thought I wanted to do sports med, so I wanted to manipulate.....now I cut people open.

2.) If you are in DO world....Score high on USLMLE and COMLEX!!!! Rotate through allopathic programs, and kiss ass like there is no tomorrow. I mean old-school style....your resident needs a car wash, DO IT!!!!!

3.) If you get into a OSTEOPATHIC program, you have to make your own way....no one is there to hand feed you. Meet plastic directors, try to get into programs with fellowships, etc. Unfortunately, with the exception of Michigan, most of the programs with plastics aren't very good.

4.) Have a back-up....for instance, I want to do reconstruction, so if I need to I will make up my own path....microvascular, hand, cosmetics....there are a lot of ways to get around doing traditional training.
 
You guys have to face the fact that no matter what you score on the USMLE, as a DO you are always a second class citizen in an allopathic training program.

I had 3 classmates, all of who scored in the top 99% for comlex and USMLE, that got **** from residency directors. One guy had the highest USMLE of all the applicants in the whole pool....the interviewer still ask him how he feels he is as good as the other MD applicants.

A friend of mine on the other hand, got his number one plastics choice after attending an ACGME surgery training program. Here is my list of recs for those of you thinking about fellowships or specialty surgery.....

1.) If you are in udergrad......go MD, if you can. I thought I wanted to do sports med, so I wanted to manipulate.....now I cut people open.

2.) If you are in DO world....Score high on USLMLE and COMLEX!!!! Rotate through allopathic programs, and kiss ass like there is no tomorrow. I mean old-school style....your resident needs a car wash, DO IT!!!!!

3.) If you get into a OSTEOPATHIC program, you have to make your own way....no one is there to hand feed you. Meet plastic directors, try to get into programs with fellowships, etc. Unfortunately, with the exception of Michigan, most of the programs with plastics aren't very good.

4.) Have a back-up....for instance, I want to do reconstruction, so if I need to I will make up my own path....microvascular, hand, cosmetics....there are a lot of ways to get around doing traditional training.


That needs to change...DO's work equally hard to do well in school and also they have OPP as part of their curriculum, so i hope people start realizing that DO's and MD's are the same profession who care about helping people.
 
3.) If you get into a OSTEOPATHIC program, you have to make your own way....no one is there to hand feed you. Meet plastic directors, try to get into programs with fellowships, etc. Unfortunately, with the exception of Michigan, most of the programs with plastics aren't very good.

How many of the DO PRS fellowship programs have you trained at so that you can make that assertion?
 
How many of the DO PRS fellowship programs have you trained at so that you can make that assertion?



You misunderstood what I was saying, It is helpful to go to a general program with and associated plastics program....but these general programs are not very good by reputation...the plastic programs are all decent....with the exception of St Barnabas, which will have to prove itself.
 
You misunderstood what I was saying, It is helpful to go to a general program with and associated plastics program....but these general programs are not very good by reputation...the plastic programs are all decent....with the exception of St Barnabas, which will have to prove itself.

So you are referring to the general surg. programs?
 
Regarding surgery: I'm thinking I may be in the market for a good general surgery residency that will prepare me to do trauma. Any suggestions?
 
Regarding surgery: I'm thinking I may be in the market for a good general surgery residency that will prepare me to do trauma. Any suggestions?

Yes.

1. Do well in 1st/2nd years.
2. Do well on the boards.
3. Do 3rd year rotations at a busy academic core site. (No preceptor based rotations allowed.)
4. Figure out if you're applying to MD programs, DO programs, or both.
5. Get good LORs.
6. Do well on Step 2.
7. Do multiple "audition" rotations at surgery programs that have Level 1 or strong Level 2 Trauma Centers. Rotate preferably at the ones that fit your criteria from step #4. Do these rotation at the very end of 3rd year/start of 4th year.
8. Apply to said programs, and apply to many more like them.
9. Match.
10. Show up to the program you match at.

Good luck.
 
As a DO, you can do ANYTHING

you know why?

There is a NEUROSURGEON at WASH U who is a D.O.

Source: I am an undergrad at Washington University in Saint Louis and I know this ****.

Honestly, I really think it's all what you want to do in life. If you work your way up, and have the motivation, you can do ANYTHING. So chill out. If it's your dream, you can do it.

😱 DOs can be neurosurgeons!?!?....and practice @ Wash U!?!?
 
First of all, the Vizsla is the greatest dog on the face of the earth, except possibly for ridgebacks.

Next of all, does anyone know if the clinical rotation sites affiliated with LECOM-Bradenton would give me the opportunity to be exposed to a lot of trauma? That is, level I/II trauma centers on the list? The list they gave us at the interview didn't say anything about the sites.
 
First of all, the Vizsla is the greatest dog on the face of the earth, except possibly for ridgebacks.

Next of all, does anyone know if the clinical rotation sites affiliated with LECOM-Bradenton would give me the opportunity to be exposed to a lot of trauma? That is, level I/II trauma centers on the list? The list they gave us at the interview didn't say anything about the sites.
Why bring up Hungarian dogs?
 
A friend of mine has one. I dog sit for her from time to time, and this thing is awesome.

The mention because Vizsla was someone's handle on this thread.
 
A friend of mine has one. I dog sit for her from time to time, and this thing is awesome.

The mention because Vizsla was someone's handle on this thread.
Ah, so I see. My Hungarian brother in law has also told me Vizslas are awesome dogs. I have a big lazy 90 lbs. pitbull sleeping on the floor next to me right now, who is possibly the gentlest dog I've ever known. Then again, I raised him 😉
 
Vizslas are super-smart, and they live to please you. They also like to bring you birds and stuff.
 
General Surgery
University of Pennsylvania
Mount Sinai Medical Center (Preliminary PGY-1)
University of Texas - Houston
West Virginia University
Lehigh Valley Hospital/Penn State Hershey Program
Maricopa Integrated Health System
Mount Carmel Medical Center

PRS Fellowships
Cleveland Clinic
Mayo Clinic
Lehigh Valley Hospital
Ohio state university

Neurosurgery
University of Kansas
LSU-Shreveport
SUNY-Upstate

Urology
John Stroger Hosp. of Cook County
 
I have stated multiple times how bad i want to match at a GS program but i have been pondering if i would have the freedom or times when i could use my OMM skills to better evaluate my patients? This brings me to a second question in regards to which surgical field would give me more space for OMM to be a part of the profession. Orthopedic surgery is the only thing that comes to my mind where you would use quite a lot of OMM to supplement your procedures...I think use of OMM to evaluate your surgical cases can be a great tool to instill trust between the patient and the surgeon.
 
trust me, despite our best intentions, you probably won't have time to use OMM on a consistent basis through orthopedic residency or practice to be efficient or effective. but i like your attitude...i have the same, but it doesn't look too hot at this point. although, you could have a group practice with other DOs who could offer OMM to your post-op or non-op patients. i agree though, it's easy to see how a DO would be suited for ortho. some patients even think i'm a doctor of orthopedics.
 
I was talking to an ER DO last night who told me that the osteopathic surgery residencies at Doctor's Hospital in Ohio are outstanding... and extremely competitive.
 
I wanted to just clear some things up:

First, PCOM does have an outstanding plastics fellowship post GS residency. I have shadowed and will be rotating over the holiday's with Dr. Leis, who is the current director of the program and full time plastic surgeon. He specializes in quite a bit of aesthetic plastic surgery and transgender surgery.

He had told me that they prefer PCOM graduates and PCOM GS residents for the fellowship positions because he gets to know them better through the pipeline.

I've always wanted to become a plastic surgeon like some of you and, will do so even as a D.O. These fellowships are only open to Osteopathic graduates and the amount of programs/openings will be on the rise from the info he has given me.
 
trust me, despite our best intentions, you probably won't have time to use OMM on a consistent basis through orthopedic residency or practice to be efficient or effective. but i like your attitude...i have the same, but it doesn't look too hot at this point. although, you could have a group practice with other DOs who could offer OMM to your post-op or non-op patients. i agree though, it's easy to see how a DO would be suited for ortho. some patients even think i'm a doctor of orthopedics.

haha i am not suprised, OMM has a lot of orthopedic techniques that can be employed into your clinical practise. Simply putting we have more tools to better treat our patients but i do understand in terms of how the reality part of medicine is these days..its quite hard especially in certain areas that basically rely on traditional approach to deal with pre and post op cases. However, i like your idea of gathering a group of DO surgeons to start a new wave of OMM/Surgery combo.
 
I was talking to an ER DO last night who told me that the osteopathic surgery residencies at Doctor's Hospital in Ohio are outstanding... and extremely competitive.

That is correct. Many a surgery attendings refer to it as THE osteopathic surgery program. I have classmates applying to both allopathic and osteopathic and said they would pit this program against any in the nation. And yes it is also very competitive taking only 3 or so residents per year. An added benefit for someone like yourself is that they have a Trauma/SICU fellowship.
 
That is correct. Many a surgery attendings refer to it as THE osteopathic surgery program. I have classmates applying to both allopathic and osteopathic and said they would pit this program against any in the nation. And yes it is also very competitive taking only 3 or so residents per year. An added benefit for someone like yourself is that they have a Trauma/SICU fellowship.

I rotated at Doctor's as a student. It's a very solid program. They take 4 a year, and never have trouble filling (it is competitive). It's very debatable to call it "THE" osteopathic program, but it's a good place to train.
 
Any other good DO general surgery residencies in Ohio?
 
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