D.O. contemplating NYU psychiatry

[DUMDUM84]

Hi all,
I'm a third year osteopathic med student and decided to apply for psychiatry residencies in the fall. From what I've found via my research, I really like the psych program at NYU. I know the program's very competitive and there's no current DO residents from what I've found. Anyone ever heard of any DO residents in the past or DO's who have tried rotating and/or applying to the program? Or is NYU basically out of the question for any osteopath?

Thanks!

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[st2205]

Hi all,
I'm a third year osteopathic med student and decided to apply for psychiatry residencies in the fall. From what I've found via my research, I really like the psych program at NYU. I know the program's very competitive and there's no current DO residents from what I've found. Anyone ever heard of any DO residents in the past or DO's who have tried rotating and/or applying to the program? Or is NYU basically out of the question for any osteopath?

Thanks!

This question has come up on the psych forum a number of times. A few places (Columbia, MGH, Longwood) have never taken a DO and some of them (Columbia) reportedly say they never will. For some reason or another I believe I remember NYU being mentioned in there, but I really don't remember for certain. In any case, if you really want to get in to NYU I wouldn't let that stop you from pursuing it.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

This question has come up on the psych forum a number of times. A few places (Columbia, MGH, Longwood) have never taken a DO and some of them (Columbia) reportedly say they never will. For some reason or another I believe I remember NYU being mentioned in there, but I really don't remember for certain. In any case, if you really want to get in to NYU I wouldn't let that stop you from pursuing it.

That's weird since Columbia takes DO students for 4th year clerkships and at least one department says it considers DOs for residencies.

http://ps.columbia.edu/education/electives

http://cumc.columbia.edu/dept/obgyn/policies/CriteriaProcessesForResidents2010.pdf

 

[87DO15]

That's weird since Columbia takes DO students for 4th year clerkships and at least one department says it considers DOs for residencies.

http://ps.columbia.edu/education/electives

http://cumc.columbia.edu/dept/obgyn/policies/CriteriaProcessesForResidents2010.pdf

Columbia says in the app. procedure that applicants must have an M.D. degree, and NYU has no D.O.s in the program right now. I know PM&R departments at even the most prestigious places (UW, RIC, Kessler, etc) have taken DOs, so that may be what you're thinking of.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Columbia says in the app. procedure that applicants must have an M.D. degree, and NYU has no D.O.s in the program right now. I know PM&R departments at even the most prestigious places (UW, RIC, Kessler, etc) have taken DOs, so that may be what you're thinking of.

Um, no, I'm not thinking of PM&R. As I said, with links, Columbia takes 4th-year DO students (it's in black and white) and at least one residency there says they consider DOs. So I don't know what you're talking about.

As for NYU not having a DO in the psych residency right now, big deal. That doesn't prove anything.

 

[Just Joshin]

Columbia says in the app. procedure that applicants must have an M.D. degree

Where? Show me.

 

[87DO15]

Um, no, I'm not thinking of PM&R. As I said, with links, Columbia takes 3rd-year DO students (it's in black and white) and at least one residency there says they consider DOs. So I don't know what you're talking about.

As for NYU not having a DO in the psych residency right now, big deal. That doesn't prove anything.

Just because one program takes DOs means nothing for the other programs. NYU-Rusk takes DOs, but NYU IM does not even accept applications for DOs. The Columbia department you referred to was Ob/Gyn, so yes, they take DO applicants, but in the 4 years of their residency program, they do not have a single DO. That kind of is a big deal...they have taken DOs for rotations and still haven't matched any in their residency...I'm guessing a DO student likely won't have much luck applying there.

As for NYU, it's the same issue. They don't have a single DO resident, so I'm just saying it's probably not easy for a DO to match there.

There are some other places where DOs arent' allowed to rotate in 4th year, but they have been matched in the actual residency. I would put more stock in the resident list than the rotation availability.

 

[87DO15]

Where? Show me.

http://columbiapsychiatry.org/residency/application_procedure

It's in the first paragraph.

(Also, all residents have M.D.s now. Now, if they are using M.D. as just short-hand for doctor, I don't know. You'd have to call them and ask. But I'll take them at face-value until proven otherwise. They also say applicant, if without an M.D. already, must be from accredited US or Canadian school. I'll err on the side of caution and assume they mean LCME schools)

 

[st2205]

Um, no, I'm not thinking of PM&R. As I said, with links, Columbia takes 4th-year DO students (it's in black and white) and at least one residency there says they consider DOs. So I don't know what you're talking about.

As for NYU not having a DO in the psych residency right now, big deal. That doesn't prove anything.

OP is asking specifically about psychiatry, in addition to my comments being specifically about psychiatry and not the greater institutions as a whole.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Just because one program takes DOs means nothing for the other programs. NYU-Rusk takes DOs, but NYU IM does not even accept applications for DOs. The Columbia department you referred to was Ob/Gyn, so yes, they take DO applicants, but in the 4 years of their residency program, they do not have a single DO. That kind of is a big deal...they have taken DOs for rotations and still haven't matched any in their residency...I'm guessing a DO student likely won't have much luck applying there.

As for NYU, it's the same issue. They don't have a single DO resident, so I'm just saying it's probably not easy for a DO to match there.

There are some other places where DOs arent' allowed to rotate in 4th year, but they have been matched in the actual residency. I would put more stock in the resident list than the rotation availability.

I think you're reading way too much into it. A place doesn't necessarily have to have DOs currently to accept DOs. There are wayyyy more MD graduates than DO graduates, so not every residency will have DOs in their residency classes. Doesn't mean they don't take them.

I've never heard that NYU IM doesn't accept applications from DOs.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

http://columbiapsychiatry.org/residency/application_procedure

It's in the first paragraph.

(Also, all residents have M.D.s now. Now, if they are using M.D. as just short-hand for doctor, I don't know. You'd have to call them and ask. But I'll take them at face-value until proven otherwise. They also say applicant, if without an M.D. already, must be from accredited US or Canadian school. I'll err on the side of caution and assume they mean LCME schools)

Once again with the assumptions. It specifically says "from an accredited US or Canadian school." It says nothing of LCME-accredited, even though in your other post you tried to pass that along as fact. Look, it's fine to convince yourself of these assumptions, but don't try to pass them on to others as fact.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

OP is asking specifically about psychiatry, in addition to my comments being specifically about psychiatry and not the greater institutions as a whole.

Yeah, but my point was that since Columbia takes DO visiting students, I find it hard to believe the rumors. I've heard these rumors on SDN for years about Columbia and any number of residencies, but really, that's all they are -- rumors.

 

[DrWBD]

Just call or email the program and ask if they consider osteopathic applicants.

Here is the contact info from FRIEDA:
NYU Psychiatry Residency Program Info

edit: it looks like you can't link directly to the page. Just use http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/education-careers/graduate-medical-education/freida-online.page instead.

 

[El Dooderino]

Yeah, but my point was that since Columbia takes DO visiting students, I find it hard to believe the rumors. I've heard these rumors on SDN for years about Columbia and any number of residencies, but really, that's all they are -- rumors.

you remind me of a kid who sticks his fingers in his ears and yells, "LALALALALA" when someone is saying something they don't want to hear. the poster was trying to tell you all evidence supports the idea that it is at least very unlikely that they take DO's. Grow up

 

[87DO15]

you remind me of a kid who sticks his fingers in his ears and yells, "LALALALALA" when someone is saying something they don't want to hear. the poster was trying to tell you all evidence supports the idea that it is at least very unlikely that they take DO's. Grow up

This.

I have nothing to gain from twisting words. I'm merely restating what I've read. I'm starting at a DO school next year, I'd like nothing more than for these residencies to open up their positions for DO applicants. But I'm pragmatic. Based on everything I've seen, it's unlikely that a DO will match there. It's better to know this than to go in to the residency app. cycle praying for 1 single program that *might* completely throw out an application based on the degree-granting school.

(OP, good luck with your application, and do what the actual doctor said and call NYU up to see rather than listen to pre-meds and med students get into an argument over semantics)

 

[MedStudentWanna]

you remind me of a kid who sticks his fingers in his ears and yells, "LALALALALA" when someone is saying something they don't want to hear. the poster was trying to tell you all evidence supports the idea that it is at least very unlikely that they take DO's. Grow up

And you remind me of the kid who stomps his foot and says "But that's what I THINK!!!!" even when others try to tell him that he's making assumptions. The poster has no clue what he's talking about. There is no evidence that supports his hypothesis. None. Just faulty assumptions from a pre-med.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

This.

I have nothing to gain from twisting words. I'm merely restating what I've read.

Actually, you're restating your interpretation of what you read, not what you read.

Based on everything I've seen, it's unlikely that a DO will match there.

Then say that. Don't tell people that Columbia states in the application process that you "must have an MD" when that isn't true.

It's better to know this than to go in to the residency app. cycle praying for 1 single program that *might* completely throw out an application based on the degree-granting school.

What makes you think the OP would go into it "praying for 1 single program"? Again, you're making assumptions. I'm sure as a third-year, the OP is bright enough not to bank everything one program. I doubt he needed you to set him straight.

 

[El Dooderino]

And you remind me of the kid who stomps his foot and says "But that's what I THINK!!!!" even when others try to tell him that he's making assumptions. The poster has no clue what he's talking about. There is no evidence that supports his hypothesis. None. Just faulty assumptions from a pre-med.

you obviously have a dog in this fight. I retract all my previous statements. YOU"LL GET IN EVERYWHERE YOU APPLY!!!!!

 

[MedStudentWanna]

you obviously have a dog in this fight. I retract all my previous statements. YOU"LL GET IN EVERYWHERE YOU APPLY!!!!!

No, as a matter of fact, I don't. I'm an MD student. I just get sick of the perpetual myths on SDN repeated over and over and over again with zero evidence to back it up, other than the occasional assumption that posters try to pass off as fact.

You, on the other hand, seem to work awfully hard at discouraging DO students.

 

[87DO15]

First, I missed your NYU IM comment, so I'll clear that up.

http://medicine.med.nyu.edu/education/im-residency-homepage/faqs#dd

10. Do you accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates?
We are sorry, but we do not accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates.


Looking at Columbia's Psych graduates dating back to 2001, not a single person had a DO degree. But no, you're right, I should think I have a good chance at getting a spot there in 4 years. Thank you for enlightening me.

In pretty much every post, I've said that I'm making inferences. The Columbia MD one was directly from their page. Combined with their past residents, is it really a stretch to think that DOs face a bias there? If they took DO students, why would they not say previous graduates must hold an MD or DO, instead of just MD? Do osteopathic graduates lose all their ability 1 yr out, but MS4 osteopathic graduates are okay? Does Columbia think DO graduates who completed a TY year aren't as good as new applicants?

Yes, that one comment was an inference that I failed to present as an inference. It's pretty clear that every other comment I made was on the basis of looking at various parts of the "problem," as it were. But no, I didn't try to pass them off as fact. I said that it's unlikely, at several places, that DOs will match. It's not exactly an off-the-wall comment.

And to the last part...really? You think I really believe this guy is going to apply to one place? No, I don't think that. I was just saying that I think it's better to know what you're up against before you face the problem (in this case, the residency match). He should know there are places that won't take DOs. There's not many, but they are out there. It's not meant to be discouraging, because honestly, the top places out there reject 90% of the US MD students also (FULL DISCLAIMER - THE 90% REJECTION RATE IS A MADE UP NUMBER. I AM NOT AWARE OF THE ACTUAL PERCENTAGE OF US ALLOPATHIC STUDENTS WHO ARE REJECTED FROM EVERY TOP RESIDENCY PROGRAM. THE LARGE NUMBER WAS ONLY MEANT TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT MOST US MD STUDENTS DO NOT TRAIN AT TOP TIER PLACES OR PLACES IN EXTREMELY DESIRABLE CITIES, SUCH AS NYC).

These places get the best applicants, so they don't NEED to look at DO students. I really don't understand why this devolved into this ridiculous argument.


Edit: This is not meant to be discouraging to anybody. I'm going into a DO school knowing that I may have to work harder to get those coveted spots at "prestigious" places. And that's fine. I'm also not going to waste my time applying to places where I know I have no shot. The OP is obviously a realist as well, as he came on here asking if they take them...I offered my opinion, you offered yours. I backed mine up with previous match lists and such, and apparently, that makes me the bad guy. I'm not a self-hating DO or anything. I'm freaking ecstatic to be starting at a DO school this fall, and I don't believe it will hinder me in practice, or even in fellowships that much. But I do know certain places don't consider DOs, so when I apply, I'll be checking trends of match lists and calling places to find out their thoughts on the matter.

 

[El Dooderino]

First, I missed your NYU IM comment, so I'll clear that up.

http://medicine.med.nyu.edu/education/im-residency-homepage/faqs#dd

10. Do you accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates?
We are sorry, but we do not accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates.


Looking at Columbia's Psych graduates dating back to 2001, not a single person had a DO degree. But no, you're right, I should think I have a good chance at getting a spot there in 4 years. Thank you for enlightening me.

In pretty much every post, I've said that I'm making inferences. The Columbia MD one was directly from their page. Combined with their past residents, is it really a stretch to think that DOs face a bias there? If they took DO students, why would they not say previous graduates must hold an MD or DO, instead of just MD? Do osteopathic graduates lose all their ability 1 yr out, but MS4 osteopathic graduates are okay? Does Columbia think DO graduates who completed a TY year aren't as good as new applicants?

Yes, that one comment was an inference that I failed to present as an inference. It's pretty clear that every other comment I made was on the basis of looking at various parts of the "problem," as it were. But no, I didn't try to pass them off as fact. I said that it's unlikely, at several places, that DOs will match. It's not exactly an off-the-wall comment.

And to the last part...really? You think I really believe this guy is going to apply to one place? No, I don't think that. I was just saying that I think it's better to know what you're up against before you face the problem (in this case, the residency match). He should know there are places that won't take DOs. There's not many, but they are out there. It's not meant to be discouraging, because honestly, the top places out there reject 90% of the US MD students also (FULL DISCLAIMER - THE 90% REJECTION RATE IS A MADE UP NUMBER. I AM NOT AWARE OF THE ACTUAL PERCENTAGE OF US ALLOPATHIC STUDENTS WHO ARE REJECTED FROM EVERY TOP RESIDENCY PROGRAM. THE LARGE NUMBER WAS ONLY MEANT TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT MOST US MD STUDENTS DO NOT TRAIN AT TOP TIER PLACES OR PLACES IN EXTREMELY DESIRABLE CITIES, SUCH AS NYC).

These places get the best applicants, so they don't NEED to look at DO students. I really don't understand why this devolved into this ridiculous argument.

damn your research, the only way you'll convince me that NYU isn't DO friendly is a notarized letter from the chair

 

[87DO15]

damn your research, the only way you'll convince me that NYU isn't DO friendly is a notarized letter from the chair

Give me your address and a couple weeks, damnit! I WILL NOT LOSE AN INTERWEBZ ARGUMENT WITH SOMEONE I DO NOT KNOW!

 

[ProtossCarrier]

Once again with the assumptions. It specifically says "from an accredited US or Canadian school." It says nothing of LCME-accredited, even though in your other post you tried to pass that along as fact. Look, it's fine to convince yourself of these assumptions, but don't try to pass them on to others as fact.

Check this link: http://columbiapsychiatry.org/residency/application_procedure


"must hold an M.D. degree" is in the third sentence. Reading comprehension fail.

 

[MedStudentWanna]

First, I missed your NYU IM comment, so I'll clear that up.

http://medicine.med.nyu.edu/education/im-residency-homepage/faqs#dd

10. Do you accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates?
We are sorry, but we do not accept Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine graduates.

Fair enough. See how reasonable I can be when you have REAL evidence and not some convoluted assumption formed by taking out some words and adding in others?

Looking at Columbia's Psych graduates dating back to 2001, not a single person had a DO degree. But no, you're right, I should think I have a good chance at getting a spot there in 4 years. Thank you for enlightening me.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say that he'd have a "good chance," I refuted your post that he'd have "NO" chance. Sorry, but when you spread lies, you're going to get called on it. You can stand in your corner and whine about it, or you can suck it up and learn to not make up things to post on SDN just because of your interpretations.

In pretty much every post, I've said that I'm making inferences.

Not in your first one, which where this started. What you said was "Columbia says in the app. procedure that applicants must have an M.D. degree,"

The Columbia MD one was directly from their page. Combined with their past residents, is it really a stretch to think that DOs face a bias there?

Again, say that. If you had, I never would have said a word. But instead, you tried to pass off something as fact when it wasn't fact, on a thread where a third year is asking for advice. When you perpetuate a myth, you WILL be called on it. End of story.

If they took DO students, why would they not say previous graduates must hold an MD or DO, instead of just MD?

For the same reason that they say they must be a senior at a U.S. medical school or Canadian medical school, then go on to talk about IMGs.

Do osteopathic graduates lose all their ability 1 yr out, but MS4 osteopathic graduates are okay? Does Columbia think DO graduates who completed a TY year aren't as good as new applicants?

See above. Their writing is vague, which is why I, unlike you, am not making assumptions.

Yes, that one comment was an inference that I failed to present as an inference. It's pretty clear that every other comment I made was on the basis of looking at various parts of the "problem," as it were. But no, I didn't try to pass them off as fact. I said that it's unlikely, at several places, that DOs will match. It's not exactly an off-the-wall comment.

Once again, our exchange began with your FIRST post, not your second or third or fourth. It was your first post in which you said something untrue and that's when I stepped in.

And to the last part...really? You think I really believe this guy is going to apply to one place? No, I don't think that. I was just saying that I think it's better to know what you're up against before you face the problem (in this case, the residency match). He should know there are places that won't take DOs.

And you, the pre-med, is going to educate him on that. Don't flatter yourself. Seriously, you haven't even started school yet and you want to school a third-year on places that don't take DOs?

P.S. A DO matched integrated plastics this year. Last year, how many people do you think told him a DO will never match allo plastics? The year before, a DO matched Mayo derm. How many people do you think told him he wouldn't?

 

[MedStudentWanna]

Check this link: http://columbiapsychiatry.org/residency/application_procedure


"must hold an M.D. degree" is in the third sentence. Reading comprehension fail.

Actually, the failure is on your part as this has already been addressed.

must hold an M.D. degree, or must currently be a senior medical student in an accredited U.S. or Canadian medical school.

And then it goes on talking about IMGs, despite that sentence. So read the thread before replying.

 

[Just Joshin]

I have to agree that Columbia's site is too vague to decipher what they mean. If you took it solely at face-value, you'd assume that international students other than from Canada wouldn't be allowed in either, but that's clearly not the case, as proven by the second paragraph.

87DO15, you have no idea what they allow or don't allow. None of us do. The only way to find out is to call them and ask. Anyone stating equivocally that they don't take DO's based on that website is being disingenous at best.

 

[NYDOC112]

I have to agree that Columbia's site is too vague to decipher what they mean. If you took it solely at face-value, you'd assume that international students other than from Canada wouldn't be allowed in either, but that's clearly not the case, as proven by the second paragraph.

87DO15, you have no idea what they allow or don't allow. None of us do. The only way to find out is to call them and ask. Anyone stating equivocally that they don't take DO's based on that website is being disingenous at best.

NYCOM had one DO go to NYU for psych in the class of 2008, so it must be possible

 

[87DO15]

NYCOM had one DO go to NYU for psych in the class of 2008, so it must be possible

Thank you, now the OP has his answer and I don't have to continue to argue with someone over semantics.

 

[NYEMMED]

Thank you, now the OP has his answer and I don't have to continue to argue with someone over semantics.

+1, I can verify this, I have the NYCOM 2008 match list, dont want to release a name, but will if necessary
To be honest I only read the last 3 posts, but im assuming someone in this thread will have a foot in mouth moment haha

 

[Just Joshin]

Thank you, now the OP has his answer and I don't have to continue to argue with someone over semantics.

Well, considering the other poster was correct and you were wrong, perhaps you can take away from this that you shouldn't post false things on SDN.

 

[NYEMMED]

Furthermore Im not sure which specialty was referred to with columbia, but NYCOM has matched people to OB/GYN, Fam.Med, Pediatrics, PM&R and Surgery (it was preliminary surg, but at Columbia I think it counts) in columbia residencies

 

[Just Joshin]

To be honest I only read the last 3 posts, but im assuming someone in this thread will have a foot in mouth moment haha

Two people. 87DO15 and to a lesser extent, El Dooderino.

 

[87DO15]

Well, considering the other poster was correct and you were wrong, perhaps you can take away from this that you shouldn't post false things on SDN.

Actually, I never said he didn't have a chance at NYU. I definitely said it was unlikely (and considering the residency classes from 2010-2014 don't have DOs), I still maintain that. Since this whole thread is about semantics, I feel fine asking you to find me the post where I say he doesn't have a shot at NYU.

(Oh, and don't assume that because I've said it's difficult, I said impossible. Just another disclaimer for you guys since you all like to jump down my throat about the assumption thing)

Now, if someone can prove Columbia accepts DO applicants (and looks at them, doesn't just accept an ERAS app), I'll gladly eat crow. I'm going DO, I'll be very happy if I find out a residency doesn't automatically close its doors to DOs. Considering Columbia hasn't taken DOs in the past 14 classes, though, I think I'm pretty safe. As much as you want to say I've lied, you simply can't until you've proven I'm wrong. Burden is on you, my friend. The prevailing opinion on SDN is that NYC schools are anti-DO. If you can prove Columbia actually looks at DO applicants, I'll happily accept it.

 

[Just Joshin]

Actually, I never said he didn't have a chance at NYU. I definitely said it was unlikely (and considering the residency classes from 2010-2014 don't have DOs), I still maintain that. Since this whole thread is about semantics, I feel fine asking you to find me the post where I say he doesn't have a shot at NYU.

(Oh, and don't assume that because I've said it's difficult, I said impossible. Just another disclaimer for you guys since you all like to jump down my throat about the assumption thing)

Now, if someone can prove Columbia accepts DO applicants (and looks at them, doesn't just accept an ERAS app), I'll gladly eat crow. I'm going DO, I'll be very happy if I find out a residency doesn't automatically close its doors to DOs. Considering Columbia hasn't taken DOs in the past 14 classes, though, I think I'm pretty safe. As much as you want to say I've lied, you simply can't until you've proven I'm wrong. Burden is on you, my friend. The prevailing opinion on SDN is that NYC schools are anti-DO. If you can prove Columbia actually looks at DO applicants, I'll happily accept it.

You said that you have to have an MD to apply to Columbia. That may not be a bald-faced lie, but it isn't accurate either. You then went on to admit that you were filling in the gaps in what Columbia said with your own logic, but you didn't admit that until you were called on it. To me, that's a lie.

As for Columbia, the poster was asking about NYU, so I don't know why you care so much about Columbia. The poster's question has been answered, so you can quit supposing now.

 

[87DO15]

You said that you have to have an MD to apply to Columbia. That may not be a bald-faced lie, but it isn't accurate either. You then went on to admit that you were filling in the gaps in what Columbia said with your own logic, but you didn't admit that until you were called on it. To me, that's a lie.

As for Columbia, the poster was asking about NYU, so I don't know why you care so much about Columbia. The poster's question has been answered, so you can quit supposing now.

Eh, again, you say lie, I say educated inference. (And again, you don't know that it's a lie. There's no proof that US or Canadian accredited institution means osteopathic as well) My reading of the procedure was that MDs only could apply. That's still my understanding, given that many residency sites have: LCME US or Canadian; Osteopathic; and IMG. Again, I'm technically not quite wrong.

But if you're saying that everyone on an internet board checks every fact before posting, and has data to support every hypothesis, then I'm a horrible person. I am a liar of the worst quality and will likely become a terrible doctor. I hope everyone can forgive me.

I will not post on SDN ever again unless I have various forms of proof to back up my inferences and/or claims.
I will not post on SDN ever again unless I have various forms of proof to back up my inferences and/or claims.
I will not post on SDN ever again unless I have various forms of proof to back up my inferences and/or claims.
I will not post on SDN ever again unless I have various forms of proof to back up my inferences and/or claims.
I will not post on SDN ever again unless I have various forms of proof to back up my inferences and/or claims.


Now, I suppose I will stop posting on this thread...definitely outlasted its fun.

(The medstudentwanna guy posted about Columbia...I never brought it up, just responded)

 

[NYEMMED]

Actually, I never said he didn't have a chance at NYU. I definitely said it was unlikely (and considering the residency classes from 2010-2014 don't have DOs), I still maintain that. Since this whole thread is about semantics, I feel fine asking you to find me the post where I say he doesn't have a shot at NYU.

(Oh, and don't assume that because I've said it's difficult, I said impossible. Just another disclaimer for you guys since you all like to jump down my throat about the assumption thing)

Now, if someone can prove Columbia accepts DO applicants (and looks at them, doesn't just accept an ERAS app), I'll gladly eat crow. I'm going DO, I'll be very happy if I find out a residency doesn't automatically close its doors to DOs. Considering Columbia hasn't taken DOs in the past 14 classes, though, I think I'm pretty safe. As much as you want to say I've lied, you simply can't until you've proven I'm wrong. Burden is on you, my friend. The prevailing opinion on SDN is that NYC schools are anti-DO. If you can prove Columbia actually looks at DO applicants, I'll happily accept it.

Hint: you said the 2010-2014 residency classes didnt have any? The class that just matched is the Class of 2011(the match list for NYCOM C/O2011 isnt out yet so....) and the 2012-2014 classes wont be matching for another 1-3 years


I just Posted that NYCOM has gotten a few DOs into Columbia:
Furthermore Im not sure which specialty was referred to with columbia, but NYCOM has matched people to OB/GYN, Fam.Med, Pediatrics, PM&R and Surgery (it was preliminary surg, but at Columbia I think it counts) in columbia residencies

NYCOM also has gotten people into:

Yale- (Diagnostic Radiology)
Cleveland Clinic
Mayo
Johns Hopkins Hospital
U of Rochester
Robertwood -johnson
Einstein/ Jacobi
Einstein/ montefiore
Northwestern
NY Methodist
NYU
Sinai
U. Mass.
Georgetown
U.Conn
USC
Cornell- NYP
Many of these have been matched multiple times by NYCOM alone, So it is possible for DOs to match really good/ivy programs

 

[Just Joshin]

Eh, again, you say lie, I say educated inference. (And again, you don't know that it's a lie. There's no proof that US or Canadian accredited institution means osteopathic as well) My reading of the procedure was that MDs only could apply. That's still my understanding, given that many residency sites have: LCME US or Canadian; Osteopathic; and IMG. Again, I'm technically not quite wrong.

You never said it was your understanding until you were called on it. I think what ruffled feathers was your insistence on presenting your THOUGHTS as facts. I find it hard to believe that any school would entertain IMG applications, but not DOs. Those are my THOUGHTS, not a fact.

But if you're saying that everyone on an internet board checks every fact before posting, and has data to support every hypothesis, then I'm a horrible person. I am a liar of the worst quality and will likely become a terrible doctor. I hope everyone can forgive me.

I will not post on SDN ever again unless I have various forms of proof to back up my inferences and/or claims.
I will not post on SDN ever again unless I have various forms of proof to back up my inferences and/or claims.
I will not post on SDN ever again unless I have various forms of proof to back up my inferences and/or claims.
I will not post on SDN ever again unless I have various forms of proof to back up my inferences and/or claims.
I will not post on SDN ever again unless I have various forms of proof to back up my inferences and/or claims.

This is why you shouldn't be allowed to advise third year med students. You still have a lot of growing up to do.

 

[Just Joshin]

Hint: you said the 2010-2014 residency classes didnt have any? The class that just matched is the Class of 2011(the match list for NYCOM C/O2011 isnt out yet so....) and the 2012-2014 classes wont be matching for another 1-3 years


I just Posted that NYCOM has gotten a few DOs into Columbia:
Furthermore Im not sure which specialty was referred to with columbia, but NYCOM has matched people to OB/GYN, Fam.Med, Pediatrics, PM&R and Surgery (it was preliminary surg, but at Columbia I think it counts) in columbia residencies

NYCOM also has gotten people into:

Yale- (Diagnostic Radiology)
Cleveland Clinic
Mayo
Johns Hopkins Hospital
U of Rochester
Robertwood -johnson
Einstein/ Jacobi
Einstein/ montefiore
Northwestern
NY Methodist
NYU
Sinai
U. Mass.
Georgetown
U.Conn
USC

Many of these have been matched multiple times by NYCOM alone, So it is possible for DOs to match really good/ivy programs

Thank you. [/endthread]

 

[87DO15]

Thank you. [/endthread]

So...we switched from Columbia Psych, which is what I was referring to, to every other Columbia specialty? No, that's totally fair. We've already said that different departments view candidates separately. (I offered the NYU IM vs NYU-Rusk argument, was called out on it, proved myself right)

As an example of a place that hasn't taken DOs recently, but has taken IMGs, take a look at Cornell NYP anesthesiology. I can't say whether they interview DOs or not, but they do have IMGs and do not have DOs.

You're absolutely right, I do have growing up to do. Nobody makes sarcastic comments on the internet. However, that has nothing to do with the original argument. Now you're trying to attack my character instead of focusing on the original argument. Anybody with a computer and internet access can figure out the match. SDN is a pretty big part of that. Just reading here you can garner pretty much all the info you'll need. Check the school websites, check the instructions, the FAQs and you'll often get your answer.

(The 2014 class I was referring to was for residency classes, not med. school classes. The med school class of 2010 is the residency class of 2014 on the residency website. Obviously I'm not trying to predict the future...if I'd meant the med school classes from 2011-2014, then the residency classes would have been 2015-2018)

(Edit- I'm done, by the way. As a result of a rather innocuous statement, a huge debacle ensued. You were so quick to assume I was being deliberately disingenuous, which was clearly not the case. Amazing how judgmental some can be...the holier than thou attitude is ridiculous. Anyways, it's worthless to continue this...I think we'll all be happier if we just add each other to the ignore list)

 

[Taty]

Apply and see it for yourself you never know

 

[Gheorgia]

I just want to point out that the big name psychiatry residencies in NYC are all very competitive. Maybe it's because there are a lot of crazy people in NYC, but both Columbia and NYU are considered top 10 programs and so the MDs who do match there are probably the creme of the creme among MD applicants who apply for psychiatry residencies. Even an "average" MD applicant would probably have difficulty matching at NYU or Columbia NYPH.

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I just want to point out that the big name psychiatry residencies in NYC are all very competitive. Maybe it's because there are a lot of crazy people in NYC, but both Columbia and NYU are considered top 10 programs and so the MDs who do match there are probably the creme of the creme among MD applicants who apply for psychiatry residencies. Even an "average" MD applicant would probably have difficulty matching at NYU or Columbia NYPH.

Likely.
Still, doesn't hurt to try. Even if they reject you.

BTW, not to sound weird or anything, but.. awesome picture.

 

[patel2]

Unrelated (somewhat) to the thread, but I glanced at NYCOM's match that I was given on interview day. In regards to NYU and Columbia's overall representation:

They sent one person to Columbia family medicine, 2 people to PMR at Columbia/Cornell, and 5 to NYU PMR in the class of '09...so any potential bias really is hit or miss by dept (and we don't how many people have applied to psychiatry in the past. As someone mentioned, if you look at the sites, it tends to be stacked by top 20 MD schools, and it's not like mid/lower tier MDs are getting in by the droves. Psychiatry is a relatively uncompetitive field, and NYU represents the top 5% of applicants in that field. They probably have average boards similar to ROAD fields. Perhaps it's not DO bias so much as it is DO students who aim for psych not routinely being in this top 5% of all psych applicants (MD and DO)

 

[ny skindoc]

Unrelated (somewhat) to the thread, but I glanced at NYCOM's match that I was given on interview day. In regards to NYU and Columbia's overall representation:

They sent one person to Columbia family medicine, 2 people to PMR at Columbia/Cornell, and 5 to NYU PMR in the class of '09...so any potential bias really is hit or miss by dept (and we don't how many people have applied to psychiatry in the past. As someone mentioned, if you look at the sites, it tends to be stacked by top 20 MD schools, and it's not like mid/lower tier MDs are getting in by the droves. Psychiatry is a relatively uncompetitive field, and NYU represents the top 5% of applicants in that field. They probably have average boards similar to ROAD fields. Perhaps it's not DO bias so much as it is DO students who aim for psych not routinely being in this top 5% of all psych applicants (MD and DO)

I agree with this overall. The psych applicants to the top programs are often stellar candidates,so a DO would need to present at least similar board scores and worthy research.

 

[El Dooderino]

Hint: you said the 2010-2014 residency classes didnt have any? The class that just matched is the Class of 2011(the match list for NYCOM C/O2011 isnt out yet so....) and the 2012-2014 classes wont be matching for another 1-3 years


I just Posted that NYCOM has gotten a few DOs into Columbia:
Furthermore Im not sure which specialty was referred to with columbia, but NYCOM has matched people to OB/GYN, Fam.Med, Pediatrics, PM&R and Surgery (it was preliminary surg, but at Columbia I think it counts) in columbia residencies

I refuse to believe a real med student thinks a surg-prelim is a good match, no matter where it is. you have to be kidding me. the other specialties you mentioned are literally the least competitive specialties out there. People on this site have huge chips on their shoulders over being DO's. Listen, it's harder to match into certain things being a DO. I really don't think this is an outrageous statement but i'll let you have the last word since you seem to need it

 

[Doctor4Life1769]

I refuse to believe a real med student thinks a surg-prelim is a good match, no matter where it is. you have to be kidding me. the other specialties you mentioned are literally the least competitive specialties out there. People on this site have huge chips on their shoulders over being DO's. Listen, it's harder to match into certain things being a DO. I really don't think this is an outrageous statement but i'll let you have the last word since you seem to need it

I agree. Prelim surg ANYWHERE sucks. Also, doing it at Columbia likely makes it worse, as it likely will be a very malignant experience.

Being a DO does make it difficult, I hope no one thinks otherwise.

 

[AnnTaylor]

.....

 

[Parietal Lobe]

I refuse to believe a real med student thinks a surg-prelim is a good match, no matter where it is. you have to be kidding me. the other specialties you mentioned are literally the least competitive specialties out there. People on this site have huge chips on their shoulders over being DO's. Listen, it's harder to match into certain things being a DO. I really don't think this is an outrageous statement but i'll let you have the last word since you seem to need it

I haven't seen a single person claim that it's easier to match to allo residencies as a DO. All I've seen is you come in here with a confrontational attitude toward anyone who tries to defend the RUMOR that "so and so doesn't take DOs." That's all you have to contribute to the thread and you have the gall to say others have a huge chip on their shoulders? Other way around, Doc.

 

[DrWBD]

I refuse to believe a real med student thinks a surg-prelim is a good match, no matter where it is. you have to be kidding me.

agreed

 

[Taty]

I refuse to believe a real med student thinks a surg-prelim is a good match, no matter where it is.

Agreed.

If you do prelim you never know whats going to happen to you next year. The fact that this person does prelim at Columbia does not mean that he/she will get categorical next year...It sucks...Who likes uncertainty anyway? Uncertainty is always uncertainty even at Columbia...it does not make it better...