D.O. matching at Harvard,JH,etc.

[wjs010]

Anybody ever heard of a regular Joe D.O. matching at harvard, regardless of where they went to school? Also, does anyone know if, when trying to match, do residencies take your college into account or just your medical school? I looked on Harvard at Rad.onc. and they were all M.D. Yes, I know that D.O. can match into any specialty, I was just wondering about matching to Harvard. thanks

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

1) As a DO you getting into Rad Onc is Lim -> 0. At Harvard = 0.
2) I've heard of some DO's matching into uncompetitive specialties in top programs, particularly PM&R.
3) Your college performance and mcat are irrelevant at this point. It's debatable that your performance in the first 2 years of medical school may not be all that significant ( Given you pass), just Step scores and 3rd and 4th year clerks.

 

[thumbz]

If I recall correctly AZCOM matched a DO into Harvard anes in 2009

 

[UTsksk]

Through my naive understanding, you probably need everything rockstar as in pubs, top scores, and LOR to even have a shot, a very slim shot at that.

 

[moneytree]

Harvard FM 0.01%
Harvard rads? Haha no

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[Jamie561]

If you're interested in big academic centers for training, don't go DO.

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[coolingglasses]

If you're interested in big academic centers for training, don't go DO.

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Not even state schools?

 

[NeuroLAX]

If you're interested in big academic centers for training, don't go DO.

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That's quite the generalization.

 

[MedPR]

OP, use search.

 

[MedPR]

Harvard is overrated.

Yea, and SGU is underrated.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

MedPR, you're on a good one today...and I like it.

 

[NeuroLAX]

MedPR, you're on a good one today...and I like it.

Yeah he is not holding anything back. I'm also a fan.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Sgu is for those who can't get into US medical schools.

Harvard is for those who can get into any US medical school.

 

[hatteapear]

Touro last year, someone matched Harvard in Psychiatry. You can check on their match list!

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Sgu is for those who can't get into US medical schools.

No its not.

 

[lftbndlbrnchblk]

Rad Onc at Harvard or JH might be hard but an AZCOM guy got into Rad Onc at Baylor which is a pretty good residency. Also, not every top 10 residency is the best. It depends on what you are training to do. There are a few DOs in Johns Hopkins' EM program. But you probably won't get the training at JH in EM that you would have gotten at University of Maryland which is in the same state. JH is urgent care compared to UM which is like Baghdad. Can't vouch for the Boston EM programs but I'm sure Harvard isn't going to be the battleground that a hospital like Detroit Receiving is, you know? Yeah, go Ivy if you want to do something like Rad Onc but who the hell cares about the name on top of the building if you want to do something like FM, Ob/Gyn, Peds, EM, etc. IM you will want to go ACGME because getting into a sub-I will be challenging after a DO residency in internal medicine.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Rad Onc at Harvard or JH might be hard but an AZCOM guy got into Rad Onc at Baylor which is a pretty good residency. Also, not every top 10 residency is the best. It depends on what you are training to do. There are a few DOs in Johns Hopkins' EM program. But you probably won't get the training at JH in EM that you would have gotten at University of Maryland which is in the same state. JH is urgent care compared to UM which is like Baghdad. Can't vouch for the Boston EM programs but I'm sure Harvard isn't going to be the battleground that a hospital like Detroit Receiving is, you know? Yeah, go Ivy if you want to do something like Rad Onc but who the hell cares about the name on top of the building if you want to do something like FM, Ob/Gyn, Peds, EM, etc. IM you will want to go ACGME because getting into a sub-I will be challenging after a DO residency in internal medicine.

Is a sub-I done in the 4th year?

 

[coolingglasses]

This really depends on what state schools you are talking about and what specialty. I've seen DO's match Neurology at places like UC Irvine or IM at UTSW, but if you're talking about emergency med at UCSF, that's not going to happen. Even as an MD those chances at top programs are slim.

I was thinking plain ol' mid-tier state schools, like my alma mater. Not sure why I asked though, I've seen DOs working there.

 

[BabyDoc86]

Harvard is overrated.

+1

Oh how I would love to tell my Harvard & Yale stories. Why focus on Harvard as a premed? Get in, work your ass off, land a dream residency of your choosing. 🙂

 

[coffeeeandtea]

Rad Onc at Harvard or JH might be hard but an AZCOM guy got into Rad Onc at Baylor which is a pretty good residency. Also, not every top 10 residency is the best. It depends on what you are training to do. There are a few DOs in Johns Hopkins' EM program. But you probably won't get the training at JH in EM that you would have gotten at University of Maryland which is in the same state. JH is urgent care compared to UM which is like Baghdad. Can't vouch for the Boston EM programs but I'm sure Harvard isn't going to be the battleground that a hospital like Detroit Receiving is, you know? Yeah, go Ivy if you want to do something like Rad Onc but who the hell cares about the name on top of the building if you want to do something like FM, Ob/Gyn, Peds, EM, etc. IM you will want to go ACGME because getting into a sub-I will be challenging after a DO residency in internal medicine.

Is a sub-I done in the 4th year?

i think LBBB meant "fellowship" instead of "sub-I". sub-I = sub-internship, a type of rotation you do as a 4th year student.

also i def agree with the rest of LBBB's statement.. not every big name school has the best training in every specialty, esp for EM. Denver, Cook County... none of these are Ivies but they have kick ass programs in EM.

p.s. why the obsession with matching at Harvard? just want to be able to say you went there for something?? lol

 

[nicolemsm]

who cares about matching at harvard, jhu... it's all about mayo.

mayo >>>> any other residency.

 

[Jamie561]

That's quite the generalization.

My statement may have rustled a Jimmy or two, but I think the evidence supports it. Most DO graduates do not end up in large academic programs, and a diminishingly small number end up in elite academic programs.

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[deleted113029]

who cares about matching at harvard, jhu... it's all about mayo.

mayo >>>> any other residency.

some of you crack me up. keep on deluding yourself into thinking harvard is not what it's cracked up to be.

be honest with yourselves. if you had a choice of going to a harvard (BWH/MGH, BIDMC not as much) vs. other non-IVY program, you're gonna really choose the latter?!

to the OP, I have never met a DO at Harvard in my 5+ yrs there. If there is one, then that person has major connections PLUS a stellar record and good/many publications.

please...next topic.

 

[nicolemsm]

some of you crack me up. keep on deluding yourself into thinking harvard is not what it's cracked up to be.

be honest with yourselves. if you had a choice of going to a harvard (BWH/MGH, BIDMC not as much) vs. other non-IVY program, you're gonna really choose the latter?!

to the OP, I have never met a DO at Harvard in my 5+ yrs there. If there is one, then that person has major connections PLUS a stellar record and good/many publications.

please...next topic.

Go volunteer at mayo for three years, work closely with physicians, pharmacists, other middle care providers and tell me you wouldn't pick Mayo over Harvard.

1% matriculation rate (very small class size), full scholarships for a majority if not almost all students of class. Their overall approach is very learning centered... look @ their shield PATIENT CARE #1, RESEARCH AND EDUCATION are their cornerstones. Apparently you either have no pulse and are dead if their program doesn't excite you.


People need to get rid of their ivy boners & disregard for the flawed USNEWS 'ranking' system. In my experience the kids from my high school years who went to harvard were anti-social grade mongers... pass on that good ol' boys club.

 

[wjs010]

lol damn this turned into a jimmy rustler. I personally don't have a dream to match there, I was just curious. I'm thinking of PMR so who knows where i'll go. First, I think i should stop dreaming and get into med school lol

 

[group_theory]

If I recall correctly AZCOM matched a DO into Harvard anes in 2009

When I was a student at PCOM, I remember reading that one of the chief residents of Anesthesia at Beth Israel Deaconess (one of HMS's main teaching hospitals) was a PCOM graduate.

Someone from my class matched at Harvard Longwood for psychiatry

The former moderator here on SDN (in the pre-osteopathic and osteopathic forums) was a Mayo resident (he has since finished and is making money 😀)

Mayo has taken a handful of DO for residency/fellowships in the past

http://mayoresearch.mayo.edu/mayo/research/staff/albright_rc.cfm (Internal Med)

What I have noticed is that the well-established prestigious programs have their pick of candidates since they don't care about reputations (already well established). They can take as many DOs and IMGs as they want and their reputations among US MDs won't take a hit at all. The newer prestigious programs are more reluctant to take too many DOs/IMGs (if at all) since they may fear that their prestige amongst US MD students (and US MDs) will take a hit


In regards to radiation-oncology, agree that it is extremely difficult for DOs. Even US MD students will have a hard time since half of the applicants who matched come from Top-40 NIH funded medical schools, and a quarter of the applicants who matched have PhDs in addition to their MDs. The mean USMLE Step 1 score for those who matched was 240. Extremely difficult, but not impossible. According to the NRMP, no DO matched into rad-onc in 2012, and 1 matched in 2011. There were 5 DOs who matched in 2010. There was 1 in 2009.

Paul Wallner, DO is a radiation-oncologist who graduated from PCOM. He was a 2004 Gold Medal Winner given by ASTRO (American Society for Therapeutic Radiation and Oncology), which is the highest honor that ASTRO gives. He is the former Chief of Clinical Radiation Oncology Branch at the Division of Cancer Treatment and Diagnosis at the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda, MD.

 

[deleted113029]

Go volunteer at mayo for three years, work closely with physicians, pharmacists, other middle care providers and tell me you wouldn't pick Mayo over Harvard.

1% matriculation rate (very small class size), full scholarships for a majority if not almost all students of class. Their overall approach is very learning centered... look @ their shield PATIENT CARE #1, RESEARCH AND EDUCATION are their cornerstones. Apparently you either have no pulse and are dead if their program doesn't excite you.


People need to get rid of their ivy boners & disregard for the flawed USNEWS 'ranking' system. In my experience the kids from my high school years who went to harvard were anti-social grade mongers... pass on that good ol' boys club.

you're funny. how in the world would a program in Rochester, MN excite me?!

nice to know your assessment of Harvard residency is based upon the personalities of your high school graduates and USNEWS rankings of medical schools?

your user title says 'pre-health.' are you even in medical school? if the answer is no, then your words are...

 

[michow87]

you're funny. how in the world would a program in Rochester, MN excite me?!

nice to know your assessment of Harvard residency is based upon the personalities of your high school graduates and USNEWS rankings of medical schools?

your user title says 'pre-health.' are you even in medical school? if the answer is no, then your words are...

In that other poster's defense, MAYO is apparently more selective than Harvard for med school. Also, their hospital is more internationally known. Both amazing programs and both dream residency locations

 

[qwerty2012]

Rad Onc.. who wants to read X-rays for the rest of their lives, although it pays well and is a comfortable occupation. 😀

I am just happy that psychiatry is one of few field that actively embrace DOs even MGH, mayo, JHU..etc. Although it sounds like an interesting occupation, basically just throwing out theories and reading peoples' behaviors . I just can't imagine talking and prescribing medications for a living.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Rad Onc.. who wants to read X-rays for the rest of their lives, although it pays well and is a comfortable occupation. 😀

I am just happy that psychiatry is one of few field that actively embrace DOs even MGH, mayo, JHU..etc. Although it sounds like an interesting occupation, basically just throwing out theories and reading peoples' behaviors . I just can't imagine talking and prescribing medications for a living.

That's radiology, rad oncology deals with using radiating to kill cancer.

 

[rzoo14]

I always love those sarcastic comments. MedPR and Mr Kenobi are usually pretty good there.

 

[MedPR]

Rad Onc.. who wants to read X-rays for the rest of their lives, although it pays well and is a comfortable occupation. 😀

I am just happy that psychiatry is one of few field that actively embrace DOs even MGH, mayo, JHU..etc. Although it sounds like an interesting occupation, basically just throwing out theories and reading peoples' behaviors . I just can't imagine talking and prescribing medications for a living.

I mean, when you get right down to it that's what most physicians do. See patients, explain a few things, write a script, repeat.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Rad Onc.. who wants to read X-rays for the rest of their lives, although it pays well and is a comfortable occupation. 😀

I am just happy that psychiatry is one of few field that actively embrace DOs even MGH, mayo, JHU..etc. Although it sounds like an interesting occupation, basically just throwing out theories and reading peoples' behaviors . I just can't imagine talking and prescribing medications for a living.

You do realize that psychiatry is a field where you solely prescribe medications for a living. You have no procedures save for ECT.

 

[nicolemsm]

you're funny. how in the world would a program in Rochester, MN excite me?!

nice to know your assessment of Harvard residency is based upon the personalities of your high school graduates and USNEWS rankings of medical schools?

your user title says 'pre-health.' are you even in medical school? if the answer is no, then your words are...

My status is irrelevant, almost as irrelevant as your residency status seeing as you never made it to Harvard.

You need to re-read your post, your opinion that Harvard is its prestige....NOT MINE. Look in the mirror and see who's using rankings as an indicator of being the "best" school.

And FYI Mayo has a med school coming to AZ next fall and already established residency options also here in Scottsdale, AZ NOT just Rochester.🙄

 

[deleted113029]

My status is irrelevant, almost as irrelevant as your residency status seeing as you never made it to Harvard.

You need to re-read your post, your opinion that Harvard is its prestige....NOT MINE. Look in the mirror and see who's using rankings as an indicator of being the "best" school.

And FYI Mayo has a med school coming to AZ next fall and already established residency options also here in Scottsdale, AZ NOT just Rochester.🙄

...funny that i have a harvard ID and certificates of completion for residency and fellowship from them.

you sound young, very bitter and jealous. i feel bad for you.

 

[deleted113029]

...

 

[deleted113029]

My status is irrelevant, almost as irrelevant as your residency status seeing as you never made it to Harvard.

You need to re-read your post, your opinion that Harvard is its prestige....NOT MINE. Look in the mirror and see who's using rankings as an indicator of being the "best" school.

And FYI Mayo has a med school coming to AZ next fall and already established residency options also here in Scottsdale, AZ NOT just Rochester.🙄

...based on threads here on SDN...i guess you're a community college person trying to make it in life. good luck to you.

 

[wjs010]

...funny that i have a harvard ID and certificates of completion for residency and fellowship from them.

you sound young, very bitter and jealous. i feel bad for you.

Do they have a good pain fellowship there?

 

[Instatewaiter]

Go volunteer at mayo for three years, work closely with physicians, pharmacists, other middle care providers and tell me you wouldn't pick Mayo over Harvard.

Realistically, Mayo has a great reputation as a hospital but not a great reputation for training. For instance, I wouldn't put Mayo in the top 10 or 15 for internal medicine.

 

[qwerty2012]

That's radiology, rad oncology deals with using radiating to kill cancer.

I see. The more you know.

I mean, when you get right down to it that's what most physicians do. See patients, explain a few things, write a script, repeat.

But as a psychiatrist you will be spending 90 percent of time talking.

 

[nicolemsm]

...funny that i have a harvard ID and certificates of completion for residency and fellowship from them.

you sound young, very bitter and jealous. i feel bad for you.

knew that was coming 😉 how do you know a doctor was trained from harvard? they'll tell you.




save your analysis and quote on quote empathy for me... never needed a hand out of emotions from anyone... but really don't you have better things to do then troll the pre-do forum??

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I see. The more you know.



But as a psychiatrist you will be spending 90 percent of time talking.

You'll spend 10-15 minutes listening to a patient talk about their symptoms and decide whether they have either depression, anxiety, or a serious mental distribution and dispense a prescription. Rinse, later, repeat.

 

[Life Eternal]

Here is a DO that that did her fellowship and works at mass general.

http://www.massgeneral.org/doctors/doctor.aspx?id=17985

 

[MedPR]

I see. The more you know.



But as a psychiatrist you will be spending 90 percent of time talking.

I've never seen or shadowed a psych so I don't know if you're right or wrong, but most physicians I've been around (patient or shadow) has done more talking than anyone else in the room.

 

[AlongWay]

How hard would it be as a DO to match into Medical Onc residencies at MGH/Harvard, JHU, Stanford, and/or (the best one probably) MD Anderson cancer center? Are there any DO fellows/residents in medical oncology at those places?

 

[MedPR]

How hard would it be as a DO to match into Medical Onc residencies at MGH/Harvard, JHU, Stanford, and/or (the best one probably) MD Anderson cancer center? Are there any DO fellows/residents in medical oncology at those places?

It's near impossible for MD students to match at top programs. Even more close to impossible for DO students.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

It's near impossible for MD students to match at top programs. Even more close to impossible for DO students.

👍 hard for the majority of ALL physicians....MD/DO

 

[MedPR]

In other words, don't not go DO because you think it will prevent you from matching at HMS.

 

[AlongWay]

It's near impossible for MD students to match at top programs. Even more close to impossible for DO students.

So if MD students don't match at top programs, and neither do DO students, then who does? Is there like a third secret medical degree just for that?

Considering that all of the students at the top programs are MDs, I think you meant to say "The best MD students match into the best residencies, the best DO students probably won't.......

So if you suck too much to go MD (AlongWay's in da house) and your plan was to make that up by going to a top residency, then going DO is a bad idea.......

👍 hard for the majority of ALL physicians....MD/DO

Yes, generally getting a top residency is hard. Getting the best of anything is difficult whether that's where you go for UG, Med school, or want the best car (personally I think its a Ferrari 458, but lots of opinions here). My question was intended to see how much MORE difficult is it for DOs compared to MDs for landing a residency/fellowship in medical oncology at those places.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Well tbh, oncology/ hematology isn't that competitive of a fellowship for IM. And many fellowships are significantly more DO friendly, ex. NYU's residencies don't accept DO's in many of their fields but actively tell them to apply for a fellowship in one of their subfields.
If you have questions go to the physicians forum and look in the oncology or IM forum.