D.O. Name Change-MDO, MD, DO, OMD

[Xoynx]

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Physicians in private practice get their patients through hospital consults. Again, this is something you will learn in 3rd year, and why a 1st year medical student (and especially a pre-med) really shouldn't be commenting on any of this. Nobody walks down a street and sees the sign on a doctor's door and says "I'll go there." You will go into your affiliated hospital for a consult in your field (if you are a cardiologist and the hospital has a pt who has an abnormal EKG, they call you and you come in to talk to the patient, and voila - he/she is now your's. OR, you have been having shortness of breath after smoking for 30 years and want to see a pulmonologist - you ask your family practice physician for a referral (something most insurance companies require anyway) and voila - the DO pulmonologist has a new patient. Word of mouth from friends and families is another way. People who have no clue about the business aspect of medicine works (despite their dad being a doctor for 25 years and telling them everything they know) are naive.

I owned and managed a massage-therapy clinic for ten years. I understand how the business aspect of medicine (insurance, billing, marketing) works. I also shadowed OMM/NMM physicians. I may be only an OMS-1, but I suspect that I understand my future specialty better than you do.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

If I am ever surgeon general, which I probably will be, I will push for "National DO Awareness Day". Everyone will be excused from work and/or school, and we will have DO-pride parades where DO's everywhere march for equality. It will also become customary for DO's everywhere to give MD's wedgies and when they ask why, we'll just respond with "oh, its just a little OMM"

 

[papillon2]

The point is that you people are saying DOs have been around for 100 years and supposedly "nobody" knows what they are. Well we've only been recognized as physicians in all 50 states for the past 40 years or so and our numbers only started increasing exponentially in the past 10 years or so. Give it time.

There was still no point to this statement. I didn't say anything about 100 years and I never implied that nobody knows who we are. Stick to the thread.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Oh, and if you're sick of this thread, then get the hell out of it, *****. Some people remain open-minded to controversial issues. I doubt anyone will ever change my opinion of abortion, but if I'm not in the mood to listen to the arguments, I sure wouldn't click an abortion thread.

Darn!! I was hoping to get your opinion on abortion. How about the war in Iraq?? Global warming ... I mean, only if you are in the mood.

 

[Xoynx]

Did I say I was sick of these threads? No, I didn't say that anywhere. As with any topic there are going to be people that are for it and those that are against it. I happen to be against initial changes. I don't think it will dramatically change the publics opinion and awareness of DO's. I can respect the other side of it too, which is why I don't come in and talk ****. I'm sure you can state your opinion without flaming. So what's your beef? Chill a bit.

I apologize. I'd meant to reply to a different poster, one who'd been complaining about the continual existence of this discussion. Anyone who is against discussion is against learning.

 

[Xoynx]

Darn!! I was hoping to get your opinion on abortion. How about the war in Iraq?? Global warming ... I mean, only if you are in the mood.

Your rhetoric is not worthy of your avatar.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Your rhetoric is not worthy of your avatar.

I'll have my Samoan attorney draft up a more comical statement. However, you should respect a doctor of journalism ...

 

[Xoynx]

I'll have my Samoan attorney draft up a more comical statement. However, you should respect a doctor of journalism ...

That's more like it. 🙂

 

[Concubine]

Physicians in private practice get their patients through hospital consults. Again, this is something you will learn in 3rd year, and why a 1st year medical student (and especially a pre-med) really shouldn't be commenting on any of this. Nobody walks down a street and sees the sign on a doctor's door and says "I'll go there." You will go into your affiliated hospital for a consult in your field (if you are a cardiologist and the hospital has a pt who has an abnormal EKG, they call you and you come in to talk to the patient, and voila - he/she is now your's. OR, you have been having shortness of breath after smoking for 30 years and want to see a pulmonologist - you ask your family practice physician for a referral (something most insurance companies require anyway) and voila - the DO pulmonologist has a new patient. Word of mouth from friends and families is another way. People who have no clue about how the business aspect of medicine works (despite their dad being a doctor for 25 years and telling them everything they know) are naive.

Maybe my experience is isolated, but after moving to an entire new city I wanted a new primary care physician. Looking through my health plan provider booklet, I found the clinic closest to where I live. There are several physicians in this clinic, in which one is a D.O. (I didn't know this initially). From my experience, I'll bet there are a few people that actually do shop for their doctor through their provider booklets. I think it could be possible that a person might choose a primary care M.D. over a D.O. based on the initials alone. Although I am not advocating a name change, I can see both sides.

 

[BCLumas]

That's enough for everyone!

 

[justletmeinplz]

Yeah. Well my mom said that her uncle's cousin said that her daughter's friend said that her nephew said he didn't want to see a DO because they are all "poopy faces." So it's settled then... the profession is doomed without an initial change.

This thread may now be locked.

 

[J1515]

From my experience, I'll bet there are a few people that actually do shop for their doctor through their provider booklets.

I'll give you that. However, outside of isolated anecdotal experiences, most people do not pick their doctors blindly out of a book.

 

[mastamark]

In all honesty, how serious is this initial change talk. I can't see them actually doing this after 100+ years as D.O.s. Im fine with the DO, if they did MD, DO that would be ok. Either DO or MD, DO for me. Anything else seems a little silly and won't mean much of a difference to the public. Thats just my opinion so please nobody bite my head off.

 

[jeffro1080]

Your rhetoric is not worthy of your avatar.

no. he. didn't. 😱

 

[Xoynx]

no. he. didn't. 😱

Way.

 

[BCLumas]

3/10

This thread had the potential to deliver some good sparks.. and it died.

This thread is too full of fail...

 

[papillon2]

Threads like this die when we try to seriously debate the positive and negative effects to the osteopathic community if we were to change our initials. All the allopathic students can do is complain about how they think it takes something away from them, which isn't the topic at all. So let's talk about what this can or can't do for the osteopathic medical community:

Positives

1. Symbolic equality (in regards to our licenses) among professionals and foreign graduates.

Negatives

1. Difficulty in maintaining a philosophy, which we believe our initials represent.

Please add constructive points that you would like to make.

 

[Xoynx]

Threads like this die when we try to seriously debate the positive and negative effects to the osteopathic community if we were to change our initials. All the allopathic students can do is complain about how they think it takes something away from them, which isn't the topic at all. So let's talk about what this can or can't do for the osteopathic medical community:

Positives

1. Symbolic equality (in regards to our licenses) among professionals and foreign graduates.

Negatives

1. Difficulty in maintaining a philosophy, which we believe our initials represent.

Please add constructive points that you would like to make.

I don't believe that any label but MD, DO would clearly suggest equality. Neither would any other label (except DO, obviously) maintain the osteopathic philosophy.

 

[cyclohexanol]

Negatives

1. Difficulty in maintaining a philosophy, which we believe our initials represent.

I don't see how changing initials has anything to do with philosophy, its not like the schools will stop teaching the 'philosophy' (no matter how non-existent it is) because the letters are no longer what they have been for the last 100+ years.

 

[rockdascrubs786]

i dont care.

 

[justletmeinplz]

Negatives

1. Difficulty in maintaining a philosophy, which we believe our initials represent.

Please add constructive points that you would like to make.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

 

[papillon2]

Don't count your chickens before they hatch.

sorry, "...which our initials WILL represent."

geez

 

[justletmeinplz]

sorry, "...which our initials WILL represent."

geez

Uhhh...you do realize that is still incorrect, don't you?

 

[J1515]

lol why don't you pre-meds worry about getting into a med school first and surviving all four years. You are not in any position to comment on positives or negatives until you have actually experienced the profession.

And just for your info, the letters will not change. So if you really are unhappy then you might as well plan on going to the Carribean for an MD now before it's too late. You can learn OMM in continuing ed courses after you graduate.

 

[papillon2]

Uhhh...you do realize that is still incorrect, don't you?

No, because I meant exactly what I said.

 

[papillon2]

lol why don't you pre-meds worry about getting into a med school first and surviving all four years. You are not in any position to comment on positives or negatives until you have actually experienced the profession.

And just for your info, the letters will not change. So if you really are unhappy then you might as well plan on going to the Carribean for an MD now before it's too late. You can learn OMM in continuing ed courses after you graduate.

Alright, we'll just shut down all of the pre-med forums because apparently there's no reason to have any conversations about these topics...

We've been having a conversation; get a grip

 

[justletmeinplz]

No, because I meant exactly what I said.

Hahaha. I was just giving you a hard time. But in all honesty, when you say "which our initials WILL represent," it is implied that you already have initials which will represent something in the future. The fact is that you don't have the initials yet. So, I doubt you meant exactly what you said.

 

[BCLumas]

6.5/10 so far... keep it going!

I think we've almost gotten there. Careful.. he looks hungry 😵

 

[papillon2]

Hahaha. I was just giving you a hard time. But in all honesty, when you say "which our initials WILL represent," it is implied that you already have initials which will represent something in the future. The fact is that you don't have the initials yet. So, I doubt you meant exactly what you said.

Well, I thought this would be an interesting conversation; that's all. Instead all we have are semantics, so never mind.

 

[justletmeinplz]

Well, I thought this would be an interesting conversation; that's all. Instead all we have are semantics, so never mind.

Yeah, I hear ya. You'll come to learn that debates like this eventually get nothing accomplished.

The pre-med forums are best suited for topic like "how was your interview experience at X" or "2012 acceptance thread." It's hardly an appropriate venue for petitioning the change of profession which the majority of people here are not yet even a part of. Talking about it is one thing, but I'd say linking to a petition going a bit far.

 

[scpod]

Well, I thought this would be an interesting conversation; that's all. Instead all we have are semantics, so never mind.

It might be interesting if it hadn't already been debated to death in the Osteopathic forum. Most of the threads eventually end up getting closed because the people just get nasty with each other in the end. The current one open there has over 300 posts now.

 

[endocardium]

Well, I thought this would be an interesting conversation; that's all. Instead all we have are semantics, so never mind.

No, it's actually a tired topic; see all the threads that have been started and closed on the issue. I'm tired of seeing people trip over themselves over this whole "name change" bit. The arguments for, against, and indifferent about, a name change have been basically similar across the previous threads on the subject. Eventually, it just turns into a street brawl... 🙄

 

[J1515]

Alright, we'll just shut down all of the pre-med forums because apparently there's no reason to have any conversations about these topics...

We've been having a conversation; get a grip

This conversation is like a group of 15 virgins talking about their favorite sexual positions.

 

[Xoynx]

This conversation is like a group of 15 virgins talking about their favorite sexual positions.

Speak for yourself.

You don't have to be a physician to be conversant about how they are perceived by society at large. If you live in the U.S., your opinion is valid to this discussion, so long as you don't waste your time and ours by posting about how worthless this thread is.

 

[J1515]

Speak for yourself.

You don't have to be a physician to be conversant about how they are perceived by society at large. If you live in the U.S., your opinion is valid to this discussion, so long as you don't waste your time and ours by posting about how worthless this thread is.

The problem is you have no idea how they are perceived by society at large except for what you've "heard". I know I know, everyone worked in healthcare for 15 years and knows how it is, blah blah blah. When you become a DO and practice medicine and have experiences with your own patients, or even once you get to rotations and actually see your own patients, then your opinions mean something. Until then, your opinion is just as valid as some random joe schmoe on the street saying "I don't like these initials - you guys should change them."

 

[scpod]

Goodness knows I've posted my opinion enough times in the hundreds of other threads about this...so, I might as well do it again....

Sure, you can talk about it all you want, but until you have finished DO school and earned the degree, you have absolutely no say in it. You haven't paid your dues yet and you haven't earned it. If you don't like the DO degree, or are not comfortable with it, then there are other avenues that you can pursue to become a doctor.

Once you have become a practicing DO, and you still believe that there are changes that should be made....then, and only then, do you have the right to pursue those changes. When you've had a few years of medical school and start looking at the clinical years and take a look at residencies, you'll see that there are far many more pressing issues that need to be addressed than a silly initial change.

If you are in it for recognition, then there are many paths to the MD degree, which is recognised by many more people. Practicing DOs currently make up much less than 10% of the existing physician workforce. So, it should be no surprise that DOs are not as recognised as MDs. Some states have less than 300 practicing DOs. Yet, over 20% of entering medical student are now DOs, so eventually that number will change-- and as the number of DOs increases, so will recognition. Recognition of DOs is no different than any local department store. I'd never heard of a Beall's until I moved to Florida, but there are hundreds of them here. I'd never heard of Ukrop's until I moved to Richmond, but they absolutely rule the grocery world there. As the new crop of DOs grows larger, so will the recognition. If you are not content with that.....like I siaid, there are other options. N one is forcing you to get a DO degree.

Changing the degree designation would also be a logistical nightmare. You'd have to re-write the laws of every state in the nation and many foreign countries just to have practice priviledges. The bylaws of every hospital would have to be changed. These things would eat up millions of dollars, many years of time, and still not accomplish anything important.

 

[J1515]

These things would eat up millions of dollars, many years of time, and still not accomplish anything important.

We'd still be forced to learn Cranial and Chapman's points, and we would still have the majority of our graduates pursuing allopathic residencies. But hey, what do we know.

 

[endocardium]

I think until we actually have earned the right to become physicians, i.e., after we have gone through all the steps and experienced the gamut of stuff involved, it's all intellectual masturbation. I am not willing to make a call on it yet because I lack the direct experience to do so. As I go further along my development, let's see how my impression changes...

Anyway, don't you pre-meds have anything better to do than worry about something you don't even have yet? How about taking the time to relax and enjoy your last summer of carefree living before you embark on possibly one of the most amazing and difficult journeys out there. Really. Perhaps you'll see how little this superficial crap matters when you get busy making it through medical school and beyond.

 

[BCLumas]

Endocardium always makes me feel chill.

Endocardium and Scpod get a 10/10 for winning this thread. Congrats!

 

[Xoynx]

Endocardium always makes me feel chill.

Endocardium and Scpod get a 10/10 for winning this thread. Congrats!

So what you're saying is that a) I have no right to voice my opinion about osteopathic medicine until I earn my degree, and that b) if I then still believe that the letters should change, then I should never have become a DO.

Wow. I mean, just--wow.

 

[endocardium]

So what you're saying is that a) I have no right to voice my opinion about osteopathic medicine until I earn my degree, and that b) if I then still believe that the letters should change, then I should never have become a DO.

Wow. I mean, just--wow.

No, that's not what I am saying. I am merely suggesting that you take your own opinion with a grain of salt, since it's based primarily on secondary sources and conjecture. Don't close yourself too soon. You can think whatever you want, but I'd probably listen with a bit more intently to practicing physicians, since they are in the position to make a comment on the profession, since they are actually living it.

Also, I was suggesting that it would be a better use of your time to enjoy your summer, rather than arguing this point. It's been argued to death and the arguments are now circular.

 

[scpod]

So what you're saying is that a) I have no right to voice my opinion about osteopathic medicine until I earn my degree, and that b) if I then still believe that the letters should change, then I should never have become a DO....

Where you came up with that interpretation I haver no idea. It sounds like now all you want to do is be argumentative. What I said was that you can talk about it all you want to. However, you get no say in the matter because you are NOT a DO.

I also said that once you become a DO you have the right to pursue those changes. Go ahead...re-read my post if you want to. That's exactly what I said. Is it any clearer now?

 

[bluefirelily85]

Fight!

 

[J1515]

So what you're saying is that a) I have no right to voice my opinion about osteopathic medicine until I earn my degree, .

You could say whatever you want. It's a free country. Just don't expect anyone with more experience than you to take you seriously.

 

[Xoynx]

You could say whatever you want. It's a free country. Just don't expect anyone with more experience than you to take you seriously.

Oh. My. God.

You think that, just because you're a doctor or are about to become one, that you think you know everything about the healthcare industry. And your tone suggests that, if you don't already know something, it's without value.

You have become the enemy. You are what is wrong with modern medicine.

Please--for everyone's sake, become a well-paid surgeon and avoid the public.

🙁

 

[endocardium]

Oh. My. God.

You think that, just because you're a doctor or are about to become one, that you think you know everything about the healthcare industry. And your tone suggests that, if you don't already know something, it's without value.

You have become the enemy. You are what is wrong with modern medicine.

Please--for everyone's sake, become a well-paid surgeon and avoid the public.

🙁

No. Part of what's wrong is that many want to blame the other person and few want to actually take responsibility.

 

[Xoynx]

No. Part of what's wrong is that many want to blame the other person and few want to actually take responsibility.

'Responsibility'? For what?

 

[J1515]

Oh. My. God.

You think that, just because you're a doctor or are about to become one, that you think you know everything about the healthcare industry. And your tone suggests that, if you don't already know something, it's without value.

You have become the enemy. You are what is wrong with modern medicine.

Please--for everyone's sake, become a well-paid surgeon and avoid the public.

🙁

"Oh. My. God."

I'm starting 4th year. If residents tell me something, I listen because they know more than me. If my attendings tell me something, I listen.

I certainly don't know everything about healthcare. Not even close. Most importantly, I don't argue with people who are ahead of me and pretend to know the issues they face.

 

[Xoynx]

"Oh. My. God."

I'm starting 4th year. If residents tell me something, I listen because they know more than me. If my attendings tell me something, I listen.

I certainly don't know everything about healthcare. Not even close. Most importantly, I don't argue with people who are ahead of me and pretend to know the issues they face.

This gets creepier and creepier. Do you cram the entire world into a hierarchy or just med students? I guess the latter, if non-physicians are intellectually untouchable.

 

[J1515]

This gets creepier and creepier. Do you cram the entire world into a hierarchy or just med students? I guess the latter, if non-physicians are intellectually untouchable.

You are going to be in for quite a shock when you get to third year my friend.