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BackupPlan

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You realize that this topic does nothing but hurt osteopathic medicine, right?
 

nascardoc

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I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit :barf::wow:
 
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HopefulDoc1984

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You realize that this topic does nothing but hurt osteopathic medicine, right?

I don't really think it would be a benefit or a detriment to osteopathic medicine. If they change the name to MDO, people will still ask what the O is for. However, if it were changed to MD, DO then I think people would ask what the DO part is and it would be easier for people to understand that we take extra classes in manipulative medicine and we are fully qualified physicians. In all honesty though, MOST people don't even look at the initials after your name but SOME do.
 

nascardoc

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I don't really think it would be a benefit or a detriment to osteopathic medicine. If they change the name to MDO, people will still ask what the O is for. However, if it were changed to MD, DO then I think people would ask what the DO part is and it would be easier for people to understand that we take extra classes in manipulative medicine and we are fully qualified physicians. In all honesty though, MOST people don't even look at the initials after your name but SOME do.
Why do people assume that if you add an "M" to our initials or a ",MD" that the public's eyes will magically open and be like....OH!!!!!!! I see said the blind man. It won't do anything for DO's except make the profession look uneasy and that we are getting nervous about being in an MD's shadow. If DO has been around for over 100 years and people still don't understand it, what makes everyone think a change will finally do that??? Don't you realize that you will STILL have to explain the initials when people ask? You still have to explain OMM. So what are you avoiding exactly? I don't need different initials behind my name to show I am the same thing as an MD, United States medical licensing says we are equal....and that is all I need.
 

theserbatron

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i'm so over this topic. if you don't want to be a DO, don't be a DO. it's simple. the initials have nothing to do with practice rights in the U.S., where the vast majority of DOs practice side by side with MDs.

enough with beating a dead horse.

edit: the problem with the degree, as most DOs would agree, is public knowledge. More specifically, the lack of public knowledge about DOs and their practice. this is an image problem, not a degree problem.
 

OCHO

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Dude, the stuff you come up with. You are an endless supply of youtube and quips.

hahahaha
 
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HopefulDoc1984

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i'm so over this topic. if you don't want to be a DO, don't be a DO. it's simple. the initials have nothing to do with practice rights in the U.S., where the vast majority of DOs practice side by side with MDs.

enough with beating a dead horse.

edit: the problem with the degree, as most DOs would agree, is public knowledge. More specifically, the lack of public knowledge about DOs and their practice. this is an image problem, not a degree problem.
I got into allopathic school so it is not that I dont want to be a DO. Quite the contrary. I want to be a DO for many reasons but its a fact that most people don't know what a DO really is.

I totally agree that it is due to a lack of knowledge but if the public still doesn't know what a D.O. is after being in existence for over 100 years, why will people know what it is in the next hundred years unless something is changed.
 

justletmeinplz

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The difference in the next 100 years will be numbers. More D.O.s = more recognition, acceptance, etc..
 

papillon2

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I got into allopathic school so it is not that I dont want to be a DO. Quite the contrary. I want to be a DO for many reasons but its a fact that most people don't know what a DO really is.

I totally agree that it is due to a lack of knowledge but if the public still doesn't know what a D.O. is after being in existence for over 100 years, why will people know what it is in the next hundred years unless something is changed.
I second this; and I find it strange that this debate and fear of change is coming from a group of individuals that have yet to step into this field.
 

justletmeinplz

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I second this; and I find it strange that this debate and fear of change is coming from a group of individuals that have yet to step into this field.
You find it strange that pre-meds would be concerned with their future, their image, and would debate things they know little about?
 

nascardoc

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I second this; and I find it strange that this debate and fear of change is coming from a group of individuals that have yet to step into this field.
It has nothing to do with a fear of change. Explain how changing initials makes things less confusing for people? You still have to explain it, so nothing changes. Like the previous poster said.....power is in numbers. Once more DO's are in the field, things will work itself out.

And where most of the fear comes from is pre-meds...not practicing docs. Yes, there will be some docs, but a vast majority are pre-meds.
 

Colbert

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I think this is the wrong audience to have this conversation/debate with. You're asking a bunch of people who may or may not even enter medical school, much less a DO school to sign a petition to change the designation. I'm not arguing for or against it, but I don't think anyone except certified DOs should be petitioning for something like a change in the title. Premeds and med students should stay out of it.

BTW, one in five med students goes to a DO school right now. I doubt the recognition thing is going to be an issue in the near future.
 

theserbatron

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I got into allopathic school so it is not that I dont want to be a DO. Quite the contrary. I want to be a DO for many reasons but its a fact that most people don't know what a DO really is.

I totally agree that it is due to a lack of knowledge but if the public still doesn't know what a D.O. is after being in existence for over 100 years, why will people know what it is in the next hundred years unless something is changed.
congrats. but regardless, changing the initials of the degree does nothing to solve the image problem. whether you call an osteopathic physician a DO, an OMD, MDO, whatever it maybe, changing the initials doesn't inform the public of who osteopathic physicians are and what they stand for in their practice.

i agree with you that the image must change, but i don't agree with you that changing the initials will enact those changes. i am not an expert on this topic, i haven't even started school yet... this is just my personal opinion given the experiences i have had with MDs and DOs.
 

REM12

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Hey, got a crazy idea. How about all those who are sick of this topic, and know that this whole name change thing won't happen anyway, not respond to these threads anymore. They are excruciatingly :sleep:

That way we can spend more time, oh I don't know, studying or discussing more important matters...

...Just realized that I posted on this topic, which will keep it at the top of the threads... IRONY!
 

papillon2

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It has nothing to do with a fear of change. Explain how changing initials makes things less confusing for people? You still have to explain it, so nothing changes. Like the previous poster said.....power is in numbers. Once more DO's are in the field, things will work itself out.

And where most of the fear comes from is pre-meds...not practicing docs. Yes, there will be some docs, but a vast majority are pre-meds.
Are you suggesting that our profession will materialize it's own position in the medical society?

Interesting, because I thought we would at least play a tiny role in the development and advocacy of osteopathic medicine.
 

Hernandez

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Hey, got a crazy idea. How about all those who are sick of this topic, and know that this whole name change thing won't happen anyway, not respond to these threads anymore. They are excruciatingly :sleep:

That way we can spend more time, oh I don't know, studying or discussing more important matters...

...Just realized that I posted on this topic, which will keep it at the top of the threads... IRONY!

You might as well tell cocaine using chest pain-ers to quit showing up to the ED complaining every time they take a hit.
 

umean2tellme

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Other potential ideas are PMD = pretend medical doctor
CBRMD = couldn't become real medical doctor
MDM= Manipulation doctor man

Why can't they just leave the letters alone. I mean seriously it doesn't change what osteopathic medicine is and it has no effect on its practice. if you want an "M" so badly just write one on your coat in blue ink .
 

theserbatron

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i vote MDM, it's got a super hero quality to it.
 

tlvuong4

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Are you suggesting that our profession will materialize it's own position in the medical society?

Interesting, because I thought we would at least play a tiny role in the development and advocacy of osteopathic medicine.
You want to develop and advocate osteopathic medicine by making it more like allopathic medicine?
 

nascardoc

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Are you suggesting that our profession will materialize it's own position in the medical society?

Interesting, because I thought we would at least play a tiny role in the development and advocacy of osteopathic medicine.
I think your stretching the statement a bit far. What it means is that as more DO's practice, the more opportunities people will have to explain and talk about osteopathic medicine....and the more people will know. Of course we will have a tiny part in spreading osteopathic medicine....in fact, we will play a very large role in that b/c we will be DOs. As long as we spread the word and show we are competent physicians, osteopathic medicine will become more and more mainstream, and that is a good thing.
 

Thantis

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You want to develop and advocate osteopathic medicine by making it more like allopathic medicine?
I do not think that was the implication. I, for one, would like to see the AOA take a greater lobbying role in Washington (similar to the AMA). As you can see in the current political landscape, the AMA has enormous influence in lobbying for the status quo to be in its favor. Lobbying takes alot of financial resources though.

As the numbers of of DOs increase, we will see a positive correlation in the membership count and increase in the fiscal power of the AOA. This will undoubtedly have to also accompany a change in the current leaders of the organization. With these and some other possible changes, it is my belief that being a large political influence in America would be the greatest benefit.

Initial changes do nothing, except to provide a facelift (which gasapple needs :laugh:). We need to take out the rotten nerve root of this tooth, and not just put a cap on it. Hmm, thats what we need...a root canal!! Painful in the process, but the pros greatly outweigh the cons in the end (unless you're a crybaby).
 

papillon2

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I think your stretching the statement a bit far. What it means is that as more DO's practice, the more opportunities people will have to explain and talk about osteopathic medicine....and the more people will know. Of course we will have a tiny part in spreading osteopathic medicine....in fact, we will play a very large role in that b/c we will be DOs. As long as we spread the word and show we are competent physicians, osteopathic medicine will become more and more mainstream, and that is a good thing.
I get what you are saying and I admire your type - the strong silent kind. Undoubtedly, this will be necessary to improve our field. But we are also talking about our appeal. We live in a consumer-driven society, and unfortunately we are no exception to this rule.
 

JaggerPlate

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Can we sticky this bullsh1t so we don't have to deal with these threads anymore??
 

theserbatron

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I do not think that was the implication. I, for one, would like to see the AOA take a greater lobbying role in Washington (similar to the AMA). As you can see in the current political landscape, the AMA has enormous influence in lobbying for the status quo to be in its favor. Lobbying takes alot of financial resources though.

As the numbers of of DOs increase, we will see a positive correlation in the membership count and increase in the fiscal power of the AOA. This will undoubtedly have to also accompany a change in the current leaders of the organization. With these and some other possible changes, it is my belief that being a large political influence in America would be the greatest benefit.
bingo!
 

jyland

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There are so many that think Doctor of Osteopathy is = Doctor of Bones.
A.T. Still even debated whether or not he should change the orginal abbreviation he came out with.
I think it is perfectly fine to entertain the idea of a name change. If you do not want to debate on this issue then dont.
 

MaximusD

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There are so many that think Doctor of Osteopathy is = Doctor of Bones.
A.T. Still even debated whether or not he should change the orginal abbreviation he came out with.
I think it is perfectly fine to entertain the idea of a name change. If you do not want to debate on this issue then dont.
Who cares? AT Still was a quack lol. So was every other doctor at the time. Conventional wisdom and argument should not be based on his limited yet often aggrandized point of view.
 

bluefirelily85

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Other potential ideas are PMD = pretend medical doctor
CBRMD = couldn't become real medical doctor
MDM= Manipulation doctor man

Why can't they just leave the letters alone. I mean seriously it doesn't change what osteopathic medicine is and it has no effect on its practice. if you want an "M" so badly just write one on your coat in blue ink .


AH!!! Hahahaha that's hilarious!!!
 

tlvuong4

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No, why would you assume that I implied that?
That's the whole point of the name change isn't it? DO's don't get the same recognition and respect as their MD counterparts so what is a better way to get that then to change the degree name to something similar. I think there are much bigger problems in osteopathic medicine than the initials behind your name.
 

Xoynx

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That's the whole point of the name change isn't it? DO's don't get the same recognition and respect as their MD counterparts so what is a better way to get that then to change the degree name to something similar. I think there are much bigger problems in osteopathic medicine than the initials behind your name.
To me, it's more about logic. I'm OMS-1, and so far I can't say that I see a whole hell of a lot of difference between becoming a DO vs. an MD in terms of what I have to learn. Yes, there's OPP, but it's not integrated into the rest of my education--it's an add-on. I could more easily have taken OPP as post-grad. And if you think that MDs aren't trained in preventive medicine, then you've been drinking too much of the Still Kool-Aid.

Bottom line: there really is not much difference between a DO and an MD, given how few DOs maintain OPP in their armamentarium. But some of us intend to. Like me, for example: I chose the DO route not over MD but over DC--I want to specialize in OMM/NMM. But because OPP really and truly is just an add-on, I think the title should reflect that, and that's why I support changing the title to MD, DO. That way , we're not offending our DO forefathers, and we're making it clear to the world (especially the many parts where DOs aren't allowed to practice medicine) that we're "real" docs.

Oh, and if you're sick of this thread, then get the hell out of it, moron. Some people remain open-minded to controversial issues. I doubt anyone will ever change my opinion of abortion, but if I'm not in the mood to listen to the arguments, I sure wouldn't click an abortion thread.
 

J1515

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Are you suggesting that our profession will materialize it's own position in the medical society?

Interesting, because I thought we would at least play a tiny role in the development and advocacy of osteopathic medicine.
You do realize that 100 years ago DOs were few in numbers and weren't even recognized as physicians, right? You do realize that all 50 states in the US didn't even recognize DOs as fully licensed physicians until 1970, right? Don't comment on things you know nothing about.
 

J1515

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But we are also talking about our appeal. We live in a consumer-driven society, and unfortunately we are no exception to this rule.
This is why pre-meds aren't allowed to make decisions about a profession they haven't even entered yet, but think they know everything about anyway. Changing the initials does nothing for appeal. What it does do is settle the uneasiness in the minds of premeds who don't have the numbers to get into an MD school and use DO as a backup.

Here's a little tidbit of info: patients don't choose their doctors out of a phonebook. Whether you have the initials DO, MD, SDN, or VMD after your name will not get you more patients. You will learn more about this when you enter the hospitals in your third year and you see how a physician actually gets patients.
 

TexasTriathlete

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Here is my official position on the matter:

On one hand, it would cut down on the confusion, and it would make sense on some level.

On the other hand, I just don't give a ****. DO's everywhere are doing just fine, and as their numbers increase so will awareness by the general public.
 

papillon2

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You do realize that 100 years ago DOs were few in numbers and weren't even recognized as physicians, right? You do realize that all 50 states in the US didn't even recognize DOs as fully licensed physicians until 1970, right? Don't comment on things you know nothing about.
What was the point of this statement?
 

J1515

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I'm OMS-1....

I support changing the title to MD, DO.
Wait until you get to third year and start complaining that you are rotating through hospitals that see only 10 patients through the ER daily, or when it comes time for residency and you have to move to the other side of the country to do a quality osteopathic residency in the specialty you are interested. Or next year when you are forced to try to feel the movement of skull bones that are fused for hours on end. You will realize that wasting your breath over these stupid initials was pointless and there are so many REAL problems that need to be looked at and dealt with instead.
 

Xoynx

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Wait until you get to third year and start complaining that you are rotating through hospitals that see only 10 patients through the ER daily, or when it comes time for residency and you have to move to the other side of the country to do a quality osteopathic residency in the specialty you are interested. Or next year when you are forced to try to feel the movement of skull bones that are fused for hours on end. You will realize that wasting your breath over these stupid initials was pointless and there are so many REAL problems that need to be looked at and dealt with instead.
It's a minor issue, granted. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't merit discussion.
 

J1515

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That says nothing about how a physician in private practice gets his/her pts.
Physicians in private practice get their patients through hospital consults. Again, this is something you will learn in 3rd year, and why a 1st year medical student (and especially a pre-med) really shouldn't be commenting on any of this. Nobody walks down a street and sees the sign on a doctor's door and says "I'll go there." You will go into your affiliated hospital for a consult in your field (if you are a cardiologist and the hospital has a pt who has an abnormal EKG, they call you and you come in to talk to the patient, and voila - he/she is now your's. OR, you have been having shortness of breath after smoking for 30 years and want to see a pulmonologist - you ask your family practice physician for a referral (something most insurance companies require anyway) and voila - the DO pulmonologist has a new patient. Word of mouth from friends and families is another way. People who have no clue about how the business aspect of medicine works (despite their dad being a doctor for 25 years and telling them everything they know) are naive.
 

papillon2

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That's the whole point of the name change isn't it? DO's don't get the same recognition and respect as their MD counterparts so what is a better way to get that then to change the degree name to something similar. I think there are much bigger problems in osteopathic medicine than the initials behind your name.
No that isn't the point, so I'm going to reiterate a concept here. The baby boomers are getting older, and the medical community is expanding to accomodate their need for health care. That means that our profession may lose its exclusivity. This upsets some people (see above). It's as if the allopathic students (note: students not professionals) are trying to fight away the people who want to help this cause. We are not competing with you for a shot of exclusivity; we seem to be the only ones who get the big picture here. The name change would only describe what has already occurred - the equality of our professions as medical doctors.
 

J1515

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What was the point of this statement?
The point is that you people are saying DOs have been around for 100 years and supposedly "nobody" knows what they are. Well we've only been recognized as physicians in all 50 states for the past 40 years or so and our numbers only started increasing exponentially in the past 10 years or so. Give it time.
 

tlvuong4

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Oh, and if you're sick of this thread, then get the hell out of it, moron. Some people remain open-minded to controversial issues. I doubt anyone will ever change my opinion of abortion, but if I'm not in the mood to listen to the arguments, I sure wouldn't click an abortion thread.
Did I say I was sick of these threads? No, I didn't say that anywhere. As with any topic there are going to be people that are for it and those that are against it. I happen to be against initial changes. I don't think it will dramatically change the publics opinion and awareness of DO's. I can respect the other side of it too, which is why I don't come in and talk ****. I'm sure you can state your opinion without flaming. So what's your beef? Chill a bit.
 
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